Irvin going to the LEO next year? Invin tweet speculation.

I had mentioned a few days ago that the Hawks should look at moving Smith into Irvin's LB spot and moving Irvin back to the LEO position. We're likely to lose Clemons and putting Irvin back at the LEO and when/if we resign Bennett, it allows us to retain our DE/pass rushing depth which is key to us continuing our run.

Smith has been playing great and warrants a starting position and Irvin has been less than spectacular even though this is his first year at LB and is learning. I think it works out best for each player's skill sets as well.

Today, Irvin tweeted that he wanted some graphical designer to design a logo for "Sackman51". Many people have responded that it looks like Irvin is expecting to move back to the LEO next year including John Clayton and David Hsu.

Complete speculation of course but it makes sense. I'm all for it.

Makes sense, spend his first year playing situational DE and adjusting to the speed of the NFL. He just spent a year learning how to play NFL backer and learning a lot of things along the way. Now he can move back to the line, and be more confident when he needs to drop back into a zone, etc etc.

If Bruce moves back to the line, I'd expect great things...given he is able to retain everything he learned over the last two seasons.

I'd be happy, to me for some reason he's looked "out of sync" when he's not in the LEO.

Not in favor of him starting as the LEO unless he's learned a pass rush move other than the bull rush. Saw him nicely escorted into the backfield by quality NFL tackles far too many times as a rookie. I still have vivid memories of how completely ineffective he was in the ATL playoff game. But if the coaches want to give him another chance, fair enough.

I'd still love to see him in that "spinner" role we heard about, allowing him to occasionally rush from multiple spots on the line.

Purest of pure speculation. "Sackman51" means zilch.

It makes sense though. I agree completely about Smith deserving an increased role on the defense and though Irvin is a useful OLB that can grow into a good player, there's just no way I could evaluate him as anything more than Seattle's 4th best linebacker right now. Actually Farwell is probably our 4th best linebacker, but Irvin deserves credit for his sideline to sideline ability.

I think it was Scottemojo who was the first to observe that Irvin lacked LB type instincts at DE. It was not long after those comments that Seattle moved Irvin to LB. Could it be that Seattle viewed Irvin's 2013 season as a training session? (That's not completely ridiculous considering that Irvin barely played in high school and only had two years of experience as a front seven player (none of it at LB). And even in college, all he really did was run around the edge every single play to abuse college level athletes.) Irvin still isn't great at moving in space or shedding blockers but at least now he has some experience. When Clemons entered the NFL, he was 230 pound UDFA linebacker from Georgia. Obviously, he transformed, but it didn't happen overnight.

Also, Irvin's biggest issue in 2012 was a lack of bulk. As we know, he "adderalled" his way to 260 last offseason, which is prototypical size for a 4-3 rush end. Even if the time at LB has minimal positive impact, the added size is going to make him a better overall player at DE. It did not look to me like the added weight slowed Irvin down last season, at least not in a noticeable way.

Further, with our current group of pass rushers, which will at least include Avril and Mayowa and possibly also Bennett and Schofield, we no longer need to view Irvin as our 3-down DE of the future. Seattle can just use Irvin in a Raheem Brock type role without issue.

Lastly, people should remember that pass rushers are notorious for starting careers slowly. For example, Chris Clemons didn't really hit his full stride until he was in his late 20s. Just because Irvin was sushi-raw his first season at DE doesn't mean he will always be that way. Just like how Clinton McDonald flipped the switch last season, sometimes you never know when pass rushers are going to have that breakthrough moment.

Irvin hasn't really developed the way I hoped he would, but he's still a versatile player and Pete has a way of turning stellar athletes with team-first attitudes into useful players. Wherever Irvin ends up next year I am confident that Pete and Dan will ensure Irvin to be at least a league average contributor.

There have been very successful drop back DEs. All the way back to the early Hawk days and the Raiders use of Tony Cline.

I can see them trying it with and some variant of the 3-4 at times. PC and company seem unafraid to capitalize skills vs roles and work off of mismatches.

I saw a stat the other day that said Irvin got more QB pressures per rush than Von Miller in 2013. I think "sackman51" has been his Instagram handle for the past year, so this doesn't mean anything.

My hunch is that he continues playing LB but also remains involved as an occasional rusher (a scaled down Raheem Brock role). Bruce is under contract for a year longer than KJ and Malcolm, so I think it'll be important to keep him involved in the LB corps going forward.

Missing_Clink":20pjbd1b said:

Not in favor of him starting as the LEO unless he's learned a pass rush move other than the bull rush. Saw him nicely escorted into the backfield by quality NFL tackles far too many times as a rookie. I still have vivid memories of how completely ineffective he was in the ATL playoff game. But if the coaches want to give him another chance, fair enough.

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This.

There's a reason we moved Irvin out of the Leo and signed two bigtime FA's, because he wasn't consistent nor effective enough to depend on.

What makes people think that's going to change next year?

It would certainly get the Seahawks out of having to draft for life after Clemons.

I thought Irvin did a great job this year. He did a good job at containing and keeping his blocker from taking him and another person out of a play. Allowing our safety's to torpedo in and make punishing hits. He also has so much strength and speed that he will get better and be able to take on the big athletic qb's like Newton and kaep who make mismatches. Once they put Irvin in with the intent to stop kaep from running wild they held him in check.

Sgt. Largent":3qefte38 said:

What makes people think that's going to change next year?

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A lot of players improve from Year 1 to Year 3. This is especially true for pass rushers.

Think of the Year 3s for Doug Baldwin, Golden Tate, Malcolm Smith, Byron Maxwell... huge jumps in effectiveness. I believe all of them have been subjected to "why is he still on the roster?" chatter at some point before they broke out.

Irvin has flashed just as much potential as any of those guys did in their first two seasons, if not more so.

Irvin basically set the edge and got ate up by blockers which allowed others to make a play. With a LB, you want someone who can shed a block and tackle. I think his skill set is more suited to a speed rusher on passing downs. That's exactly what they drafted him for.

He needs to bulk up a bit, he's still pretty small for a DE, speed rusher or not.

jblaze":3pflfase said:

He needs to bulk up a bit, he's still pretty small for a DE, speed rusher or not.

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He is the same size as Clemons.

Irvin was a gross liability against the run playing on the line as a Leo, was often engulfed by OT's once they got their hands on him, and he wore down quickly because of it. It would make no sense for the Hawks to abandon their development of him as an OLB after one season to move him back to a position where they've already abandoned his development once before, also after one season. Personally I don't think Irvin is moving anywhere, but if they had to make a move, I'd like to see him over on the weak side at Will LB where he can spend more time moving forward rather than backward, with KJ Wright on the strong side at Sam LB where his size and coverage skills could be even better maximized than they already are.

Listening to Davis Hsu on Elize and Jerry, sounds like it is inevitable that Clemons is out of here in his estimation. Sure hate losing Clemons because he is a more well-rounded LEO. I guess it is time to step up for Bruce, if he is going to take over for Clemons. He may take on the Avril role and Avril is the starting LEO. Plus, if Big Red is a goner as David suggests, Bennett re-signing needs to happen.

Chris Clemons was been the best against the run at the LEO position. So cutting Clemons is a set back for the position until they can develop a LEO that can also play the run equally well.

I was very impressed with Irvin's get off and physical strength towards the end of the season. Anybody notice he drew a holding penalty? Had that o lineman not grabbed him Irvin might have had the only "true" sack of the super bowl. Very impressed with what I am seeing and this excites me greatly. I think he will be a monster with him and Avril.

Regardless of how we use Irvin, I definitely agree we need to keep Smith on the field as much as possible. His game is already well rounded and his instincts put him at the ball too often to ignore. I think we are depriving ourselves, and him, by doing anything less.

The good news regarding Irvin is he already had Safety experience and now he has NFL experience at both LEO and LB. With his speed and size, he's capable of becoming something of a gadget guy on D. Anytime the opposition thinks they have the answers, Pete, through guys like Irvin, can change the questions.

I'm inclined to give Ken Norton credit for staying after his guys about trailing plays and rallying to the ball. Improved linebacker performance in this area has been impressive.

This is hardly news, at least to me.

I felt the move to LBer was all part of his planned progression into being a more complete LEO, which is why Irvin was forced to get quality snaps even though by several intelligence metrics, Malcolm Smith was rated as one of the best 4-3 OLB Linebackers in the NFL.

Step 1, Year 1: Learn to become a more well-rounded Pass Rusher
Step 2, Year 2: Learn to become a LBer (specifically attacking the point, controlling the flats, tackling, and coverage)
Step 3, Year 3: Put what he learned Year 1 and Year 2 and learn to become a more complete LEO.
Step 4, Year 4: With Clemons and Avril likely gone, be the #1 guy and Dominate on the premise of a Contract Year.