Irvin going to the LEO next year? Invin tweet speculation.

[SalishHawkFan]

I think Irvin was too good to bench, but we had better players at DE not to bench him. I also think he needed the experience, which is why he was given the chance to win the OLB position. I think Smith has pretty much sewn up the LB position and either Clemons or Bennett are gone next year. Which moves Irvin back to DE.

So IF Clemons or Bennett are gone next year, the first clue will be learning Irvin is moving back to DE and if we get confirmation Irvin is staying at LBer, it probably means we're keeping both Clemons and Bennett.

 

[jblaze]

He needs to bulk up a bit, he's still pretty small for a DE, speed rusher or not.

He is the same size as Clemons.

Clemons is 8 pounds heavier. 8-10 pounds is about how much you'd want to bulk up without losing speed.

It matters.

 

[SchadenfreudeHawk]

I could see us using him kinda like we used Chad Brown back in the day, as a linebacker in our base scheme and as a DE when we go Nickel.

 

[Pandion Haliaetus]

Chris Clemons was been the best against the run at the LEO position. So cutting Clemons is a set back for the position until they can develop a LEO that can also play the run equally well.

Clemons, I mean this as no offense to anyone even though many will be offended otherwise still, is a tad bit overrated. And I feel he was good against the rush in his first two seasons when he needed to be perhaps but in his last two he was a below average run defender.

 

[jblaze]

Listening to Davis Hsu on Elize and Jerry, sounds like it is inevitable that Clemons is out of here in his estimation. Sure hate losing Clemons because he is a more well-rounded LEO. I guess it is time to step up for Bruce, if he is going to take over for Clemons. He may take on the Avril role and Avril is the starting LEO. Plus, if Big Red is a goner as David suggests, Bennett re-signing needs to happen.

Yes, if we lose Bryan and Clemons, we have to have Bennett and I think we do resign him and we'll need another rusher for depth and that's where Irvin comes into play.

Bennett can take the place of Bryant on run downs and Bennett will play more downs going forward. His versatility is key to our D-line. He can play inside on pass downs and outside on rush downs while you bring in beef for the middle DT spots.

That's huge.

 

[HawkWow]

I'm inclined to give Ken Norton credit for staying after his guys about trailing plays and rallying to the ball. Improved linebacker performance in this area has been impressive.

Amen to dat. I keep dreading the thought of someone sniffing around and offering Norton something we can't offer him here.

 

[Jville]

Chris Clemons was been the best against the run at the LEO position. So cutting Clemons is a set back for the position until they can develop a LEO that can also play the run equally well.

Clemons, I mean this as no offense to anyone even though many will be offended otherwise still, is a tad bit overrated. And I feel he was good against the rush in his first two seasons when he needed to be perhaps but in his last two he was a below average run defender.

After his return from injury, Clemons remained the starter at LEO right on thru the Super Bowl. Everyone else remained plan B.

 

[Pandion Haliaetus]

He needs to bulk up a bit, he's still pretty small for a DE, speed rusher or not.

He is the same size as Clemons.

Clemons is 8 pounds heavier. 8-10 pounds is about how much you'd want to bulk up without losing speed.

It matters.

Clemons is 254. Irvin was 245 when he entered the league, I think he was listed officially at 248 by the team in TC 2012. But he bulked up over the 2013 off-season and tweeted or talked to a reporter about gaining 15 pounds, which would have put him at 263. However, when he came back off his suspension he did looked leaner and many of us has speculated his weight to be around 250-255.

Irvin at 250-255 is fast enough to cover WRs.

Also, when Clemons came into the league he weighed I believe 238 and ran a 4.68 40.

Irvin came in at 245 with a 4.41 40 despite putting on 20 pounds from his collegiate weight before the combine.

I think 8-10 pounds is a non-issue. I think Irvin could beef all the way up to 280 if he wanted and still keep his 40-speed under 4.6s.

 

[Jville]

What makes people think that's going to change next year?

A lot of players improve from Year 1 to Year 3. This is especially true for pass rushers.

Think of the Year 3s for Doug Baldwin, Golden Tate, Malcolm Smith, Byron Maxwell... huge jumps in effectiveness. I believe all of them have been subjected to "why is he still on the roster?" chatter at some point before they broke out.

Irvin has flashed just as much potential as any of those guys did in their first two seasons, if not more so.

Irvin is also something of a conversion project project. 2014 would be his second year at linebacker.

 

[Pandion Haliaetus]

Chris Clemons was been the best against the run at the LEO position. So cutting Clemons is a set back for the position until they can develop a LEO that can also play the run equally well.

Clemons, I mean this as no offense to anyone even though many will be offended otherwise still, is a tad bit overrated. And I feel he was good against the rush in his first two seasons when he needed to be perhaps but in his last two he was a below average run defender.

After his return from injury, Clemons remained the starter at LEO right on thru the Super Bowl. Everyone else remained plan B.

Okay, So?

Cliff Avril missed some OTAs, all of TC and PS with a foot injury as well as the 1st game of the season, he had no time to get acclimated into the system. It was learn on the fly.

Bruce Irvin missed the first 4 games and was being developed as a LBer, so he shouldn't even be in this conversation.

Bennett was brought in to be an interior Pass-Rusher not play primary LEO end.

Clemon's was also making 8.2 million in 2013, compared to Bennett (4.8 m), Avril (3.75m), and Irvin (2 mil).

And despite Clemon's making all the starts, they all rotated out, rather equally and effectively.

But it would make sense for Clemon's to start making more money combined over Avril and Bennett as well as having 3 years of prior experience as a LEO end. Hypothetically, if Bennett started at LEO then moved inside as a Pass Rush DT and he got 12+ sacks... he'd want the whole bank if not more to be re-signed.

 

[plyka]

I'm inclined to give Ken Norton credit for staying after his guys about trailing plays and rallying to the ball. Improved linebacker performance in this area has been impressive.

Amen to dat. I keep dreading the thought of someone sniffing around and offering Norton something we can't offer him here.

When I was a kid watching the NFL, Norton was always the best LB in the NFL to me. I don't remember the stats at the time, but no doubt in my mind he was the boss.

 

[HawkWow]

I'm inclined to give Ken Norton credit for staying after his guys about trailing plays and rallying to the ball. Improved linebacker performance in this area has been impressive.

Amen to dat. I keep dreading the thought of someone sniffing around and offering Norton something we can't offer him here.

When I was a kid watching the NFL, Norton was always the best LB in the NFL to me. I don't remember the stats at the time, but no doubt in my mind he was the boss.

I watched him closely because his dad was one of my favorite fighters...and totally agree with you. Many greats but he, Singletary and a guy few any longer associate with the field, but Tom Jackson was a baller, too.

Am I mistaken when I recall Norton having some issues with the 9er org? I hope I'm not.

 

[Jville]

Chris Clemons was been the best against the run at the LEO position. So cutting Clemons is a set back for the position until they can develop a LEO that can also play the run equally well.

Clemons, I mean this as no offense to anyone even though many will be offended otherwise still, is a tad bit overrated. And I feel he was good against the rush in his first two seasons when he needed to be perhaps but in his last two he was a below average run defender.

After his return from injury, Clemons remained the starter at LEO right on thru the Super Bowl. Everyone else remained plan B.

Okay, So?

Cliff Avril missed some OTAs, all of TC and PS with a foot injury as well as the 1st game of the season, he had no time to get acclimated into the system. It was learn on the fly.

Bruce Irvin missed the first 4 games and was being developed as a LBer, so he shouldn't even be in this conversation.

Bennett was brought in to be an interior Pass-Rusher not play primary LEO end.

Clemon's was also making 8.2 million in 2013, compared to Bennett (4.8 m), Avril (3.75m), and Irvin (2 mil).

And despite Clemon's making all the starts, they all rotated out, rather equally and effectively.

But it would make sense for Clemon's to start making more money combined over Avril and Bennett as well as having 3 years of prior experience as a LEO end. Hypothetically, if Bennett started at LEO then moved inside as a Pass Rush DT and he got 12+ sacks... he'd want the whole bank if not more to be re-signed.

This forum is suppose to be fun. It isn't worth getting upset about. Especially when all the decisions are in proven hands.

 

[Lynch Mob]

Take the thinking element out of his game and let him rush the passer.

 

[Seaswab]

In order to be called "Sackman" doesn't that mean you need to get a sack once in a while? Also, I thought Irvin said the move the linebacker saved his career?

 

[niveky]

Not in favor of him starting as the LEO unless he's learned a pass rush move other than the bull rush. Saw him nicely escorted into the backfield by quality NFL tackles far too many times as a rookie. I still have vivid memories of how completely ineffective he was in the ATL playoff game. But if the coaches want to give him another chance, fair enough.

I'd still love to see him in that "spinner" role we heard about, allowing him to occasionally rush from multiple spots on the line.

seeing as how that Atlanta game was the first game after Clemons blew out his knee...i don't think anyone was very confident about the pass rush in that game. if clemons had not blown out his knee and they had both him and irvin on pass rush in that game, pressure would have been much different and i bet we'd have been talking about irvin having 2-3 sacks. having both of them irvin's rookie year helped them both. without clemons they didn't have to adjust protection's really since there was really only pass rusher.

 

[MizzouHawkGal]

Irvin basically set the edge and got ate up by blockers which allowed others to make a play. With a LB, you want someone who can shed a block and tackle. I think his skill set is more suited to a speed rusher on passing downs. That's exactly what they drafted him for.

He needs to bulk up a bit, he's still pretty small for a DE, speed rusher or not.

He's 260 which is plenty for a speed rusher. It might be a great move if true given DE's like WR's usually take 3-4 years to develop.

 

[Mr.Hawkbrah]

Im not sure why people are so stuck on labeling him as a failed experiment at this position or that position. Ill choose to look at it as the glass it half full, either they wanted to develop him in other ways, or imo the more likely simple explanation: they signed avril, and wanted to keep him on the field, moving him around was the most efficient way to maximize their talent out there. pete clearly thinks irvin is a baller, and it might end up looking like he was destined to be a leo after all. his flexibility to play different positions is a good commodity not a reflection of failure imo. i know he will have to put up over ten sacks before some people stop ragging on him so we will wait and see.

 

[Kamcussion]

As a rookie with almost no training for the NFL and coming from a system where they never taught him technique.. he rocked out 8 sacks on pure talent..

Now he has training.. He could be the scariest pass rusher in the NFL next year. Smith has already taken the LB spot for good.