3-4 defense

truehawksfan

New member
Joined
Mar 4, 2007
Messages
898
Reaction score
0
I know many have commented on individual play, but no one mentioned how often the defense lined up in a 3-4 defense. I didn't notice this until I watched the replay yesterday.

While the majority of snapS was 4-3, or a tweak to the 4-3 (Leo lined up in a 2 point stance), Quinn used several combinations at ILB.

-Bradford and Lotu
-Bradford and KJ Wright
-Lotu and Farswell

And, they were positioned in the traditional ILB slot. And, I noticed both OLBs blitz, or 1 OLB and 1 ILB blitz, bringing 5, instead of 4. Did the sacks come from the LEO or was it from the 3-4 allignment with a blitzing OLB?

We've heard Irvin and Avril making the move to OLB, so I can't wait to see these guys rushing the passer from their OLB position.
 

themunn

Well-known member
Joined
May 18, 2012
Messages
3,948
Reaction score
466
The truly wondrous thing about having such strength in depth and players who can play multiple positions is that it allows us to field the defense that attacks the opponents weakness week in week out.
If that means playing a 3-4 then why not?
 

CANHawk

New member
Joined
Oct 4, 2009
Messages
12,041
Reaction score
0
Location
PoCompton, BC Canada
I think this defense is going to be one of those generational, game changing ones a'la Buddy Ryan's 46 or Tony Dungy/Monte Kiffin's Tampa 2. We're not going to BE a 4-3 team or a 3-4 team in the traditional sense or even a 5-2 team in the UN-traditional sense. We're going to be able to change and adjust what's on the field relative to what the offense shows us with the personnel that's already on the team. Hell, with the players that are already on the FIELD!

We're going to have DTs who will be just as comfortable playing DE and DEs who will be just as comfortable playing OLB. We'll have safties that can climb up into the box and play LB. All with corners that can shut down the outside recievers leaving 1/3 of the field left to defend by the other 9 guys. Its going to be adaptive shift on the fly hybrid technology. It's going to be a lot of fun to watch (and will make OC's around the league lose sleep)

Is it September yet..?
 

grizbob

Active member
Joined
Mar 3, 2007
Messages
2,950
Reaction score
5
Location
Oregon
CANHawk":353y8a30 said:
I think this defense is going to be one of those generational, game changing ones a'la Buddy Ryan's 46 or Tony Dungy/Monte Kiffin's Tampa 2. We're not going to BE a 4-3 team or a 3-4 team in the traditional sense or even a 5-2 team in the UN-traditional sense. We're going to be able to change and adjust what's on the field relative to what the offense shows us with the personnel that's already on the team. Hell, with the players that are already on the FIELD!

We're going to have DTs who will be just as comfortable playing DE and DEs who will be just as comfortable playing OLB. We'll have safties that can climb up into the box and play LB. All with corners that can shut down the outside recievers leaving 1/3 of the field left to defend by the other 9 guys. Its going to be adaptive shift on the fly hybrid technology. It's going to be a lot of fun to watch (and will make OC's around the league lose sleep)

Is it September yet..?

:13: :180670:
 

Recon_Hawk

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 18, 2010
Messages
3,302
Reaction score
456
Location
Vancouver, Wa
Good observation, though I would say it's not quite accurate to call this a 3-4 defense. While the SAM and LEO are both playing standing up outside the tackle/tight end and Red Byrant is playing head-to-head on the right tackle at the right end spot (much like a 3-4 DE), the defensive tackles are both still aligned in your tradition 4-3 positions at the 1 & 3 technique, as opposed to a NT at the 0-technique and another DE/DT playing the 5-technique on the left end spot.

Perhaps the biggest questions I had coming into this week’s game was Carroll’s/Quinn’s new defense. Not being able to attend TC practices or watch them live, the preseason game against the Chargers was my first look at the changes.

After a game even the coaches describe as “basic” and where many of the starters are wearing their sideline attire, it’s wise to take what we’ve seen with a grain of salt. However, I think it’s safe to say that there are some noticeable differences between 2012 and 2013’s defense. The most obvious difference from last year is the LEO/SAM role which I’m guessing many probably recognized right away. Throughout the off-season, Pete Carroll has talked about the LEO/SAM role and how the two roles are viewed as similar player types. It wasn’t until watching this game that I really see what he meant.

Here's some other observations I had on the defense against the Chargers:

-With both the Sam and LEO both standing up on the line outside the tackles and tight ends, it seems this defense is set up where the two positions rely on close to the exact same type of player. As so, their responsibilities theoretically be interchangeable even during a play, allowing for this defense to be extremely flexible in its scheme and how they disguise it. Once Clemons, Avril, and Irvin are back on the field together, this defense could become revolutionary like CanHawk mentioned above with all the different looks they can give opposing offenses.

-On one play early in the game, Malcolm Smith substituted and played the SAM spot in the more traditional role as a coverage linebacker 4 yards off the line. This caught my eye as it was the first look of a more coverage base defense. It’s possible this is a scheme they might reveal more with the starting defense as preseason goes on

-Beginning in the 2nd quarter, only then did the defense mix in plays with the LEO’s hand in the dirt and the SAM in coverage. IIRCC, they also moved Jaye Howard a bit more outside the right tackle than right over him as Big Red was playing. Given that Howard is less a run-stuffer and more a pass rusher then Red, this makes sense, but I'm interested to see if they play him more like Red, just to see if he can handle the backup 5-tech duty.

- When both were on the field together, neither the LEO or SAM dropped much in coverage from their rush position. They were majority of the time blitzing on pass plays resulting in a lot of 5 man rushes. Twice in the first half did I see both Sam and LEO drop back. In both cases, the distance to go was over 15 yards.

- Seattle tested its nickel defense a lot this game (which still has two standing rushers on the outside), even in running situations (1st & 10). With Jordan Hill playing the 1-tech, Bennett (or Jaye Howard) playing the 3, and Winfield playing close to the line, I could see a ton of nickel defense this year.
 

Scottemojo

Active member
Joined
Apr 30, 2009
Messages
14,663
Reaction score
1
Recon_Hawk":3h2jj094 said:
Good observation, though I would say it's not quite accurate to call this a 3-4 defense. While the SAM and LEO are both playing standing up outside the tackle/tight end and Red Byrant is playing head-to-head on the right tackle at the right end spot (much like a 3-4 DE), the defensive tackles are both still aligned in your tradition 4-3 positions at the 1 & 3 technique, as opposed to a NT at the 0-technique and another DE/DT playing the 5-technique on the left end spot.

Perhaps the biggest questions I had coming into this week’s game was Carroll’s/Quinn’s new defense. Not being able to attend TC practices or watch them live, the preseason game against the Chargers was my first look at the changes.

After a game even the coaches describe as “basic” and where many of the starters are wearing their sideline attire, it’s wise to take what we’ve seen with a grain of salt. However, I think it’s safe to say that there are some noticeable differences between 2012 and 2013’s defense. The most obvious difference from last year is the LEO/SAM role which I’m guessing many probably recognized right away. Throughout the off-season, Pete Carroll has talked about the LEO/SAM role and how the two roles are viewed as similar player types. It wasn’t until watching this game that I really see what he meant.

Here's some other observations I had on the defense against the Chargers:

-With both the Sam and LEO both standing up on the line outside the tackles and tight ends, it seems this defense is set up where the two positions rely on close to the exact same type of player. As so, their responsibilities theoretically be interchangeable even during a play, allowing for this defense to be extremely flexible in its scheme and how they disguise it. Once Clemons, Avril, and Irvin are back on the field together, this defense could become revolutionary like CanHawk mentioned above with all the different looks they can give opposing offenses.

-On one play early in the game, Malcolm Smith substituted and played the SAM spot in the more traditional role as a coverage linebacker 4 yards off the line. This caught my eye as it was the first look of a more coverage base defense. It’s possible this is a scheme they might reveal more with the starting defense as preseason goes on

-Beginning in the 2nd quarter, only then did the defense mix in plays with the LEO’s hand in the dirt and the SAM in coverage. IIRCC, they also moved Jaye Howard a bit more outside the right tackle than right over him as Big Red was playing. Given that Howard is less a run-stuffer and more a pass rusher then Red, this makes sense, but I'm interested to see if they play him more like Red, just to see if he can handle the backup 5-tech duty.

- When both were on the field together, neither the LEO or SAM dropped much in coverage from their rush position. They were majority of the time blitzing on pass plays resulting in a lot of 5 man rushes. Twice in the first half did I see both Sam and LEO drop back. In both cases, the distance to go was over 15 yards.

- Seattle tested its nickel defense a lot this game (which still has two standing rushers on the outside), even in running situations (1st & 10). With Jordan Hill playing the 1-tech, Bennett (or Jaye Howard) playing the 3, and Winfield playing close to the line, I could see a ton of nickel defense this year.
They did line players up on the nose against San Diego. 0 tech.

I am SO curious about this D. I really expect to see evolutionary stuff.
 

CANHawk

New member
Joined
Oct 4, 2009
Messages
12,041
Reaction score
0
Location
PoCompton, BC Canada
Really good points Recon. That's one of the things people tend to overlook when they talk about "hey look! it's a 4-3" or "OMG, it's a 3-4!" It has more to do with what kind of gaps everyone is playing as opposed to having 4 "big guys" and 3 "not so big guys" or vice versa.

The 3-4 generally has 3 big dudes playing straight up on their guy and controlling 2 gaps. For all that our that our D-line has 3 big dudes, only one of them ever really plays 2 gap (5-tech, usually Red). Mebane's almost always a 1-tech, sitting in the A-gap and the other tackle (Branch and Jones last year) almost always play 3-tech and line up in the oposite side B-gap. This allows for favorable pass rush match ups, without sacrificing too much against the run. A traditional 3-4 typically plays a zero and 2 5-techs. We don't really ever do that (from what i've noticed).

I totally understand what Pete & co. are talking about when they say things like having a 3-4 "look" with 4-3 personnel. I don't profess to always understand what this defense is trying to do, but in trying to understand it, it has made me a significantly more knowledgable football fan. I can't wait to see where they take this defense this year. This is mad scientist level shit...
 

Hawks46

New member
Joined
Apr 30, 2009
Messages
7,498
Reaction score
0
Yeah, I can't wait to see what we can do with our current personnel.

We could run a true 4-3 or 3-4 without sacrificing anything either way, which is insane. We have a ton of players that have unique strengths and talents. I am totally geeked to watch our defense this year. Like Canhawk said, I'm going to learn something.
 

Latest posts

Top