Is Jesse WIlliams the guy that will replace Red Bryant?

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  • ??? I know he normally has played inside.....just wondering what others think.
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    ImTheScientist
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  • I red something this morning about the plan was for him to play the 3 technique. I'm not well versed in the numbers down there, but I think that meant putting him over a guard. It would seem to make potential sense though, he's big, strong, and moves well. Maybe a season or two of seasoning and that's where he'll end up. I wouldn't be surprised but that didn't sound like what they have in mind yet.
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  • All I know is that we have a pretty nice rotation of players. It is up to Quinn and co. to figure out when and where to use each one of them.
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  • The great thing about Williams, is that he's played every position on our line other than LEO.

    He could play 1, 3 or 5. Probably best suited for 1 or 5. Also well suited to play our base 3. Not surprised Pete said he sees him at the three. Figure he's the 1st/2nd down 3 technique. In that role, I'd expect we'll see a better result in terms of pocket collapse than we did with Branch.

    I expect he'd be a flat out pass rush upgrade to Bryant should he be an injury/eventual replacement for him. That's not saying much. But the bar in that regard is set awfully low. Williams can bring everything Bryant brings in terms of setting an edge and playing stout against the run.

    I'd expect the long term plan is to be Bryants successor. Mainly because getting a 5 technique in that kind of body is generally tough to find. But his versatility means he doesn't have to wait until Bryant is kicked to the curb in order to have value to the team. Realistically, Mebane and Bryant need to be able to take snaps off. They are consistently wearing down now even on years they don't suffer season ending injuries. Williams is going to bear some of that.

    I really like the makeup of this DL group. So much redundancy. And the versatility puts us effectively nearly 3 deep at every position. And not just camp body 3 deep either.
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  • I think he's a Branch replacement at 3-technique. I think Scruggs and Bennett will backup Bryant.
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  • HawkGA wrote:I red something this morning about the plan was for him to play the 3 technique. I'm not well versed in the numbers down there, but I think that meant putting him over a guard. It would seem to make potential sense though, he's big, strong, and moves well. Maybe a season or two of seasoning and that's where he'll end up. I wouldn't be surprised but that didn't sound like what they have in mind yet.


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    Nose tackle is a 0. Count outwards from there on shoulders and head.

    3 tech is guard shoulder on the tackle side.
    5 tech is head up on the tackle.


    Edit: Quoted wrong person.
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  • I'm not a draft guru, but I got the impression that Hill was more of the 3 tech while Williams is more of a NT type guy. I could be totally wrong, but from the general draft scouting stuff I've read, that's what I get out of it.

    Good to hear Williams is a bit more versatile than I'd heard (if that's the case). Brings more value to where he was drafted at. Also keep in mind that Red did a decent job of rushing the passer when he was healthy. That foot was really giving him hell last year, so I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of these guy that are suppposed to replace Bryant can't do it if he returns healthy.
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  • Personally I'm hoping its Michael Bennet so we can actually get some pass rush from that spot
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  • The Elephant end would be good for him my opinion. Size and mobility. Slide him to 3 tech DT and watch Hill play the 5 with his agility. Why? Hill would be very active and around the ball. Many parts will be mixed and matched. I am sure nothing is set in stone. We are loads deep on paper....I would imagine it would depend upon the match up and the rookie learning curve as well. Hill and Williams. So much potential.
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  • I think if we took a page out of the 49ers, we see that Justin Smith's job was to get double teamed and not lose ground.
    What this did, was plug the middle, allowing Aldon Smith to have field days. Notice how many sacks Aldon had without Justin? 0

    It's what Jesse and Hill are going to have to do, be good enough to draw double teams, hold fast the middle(not allowing the qb to step up out of harms way) and then let the edge rushers collapse on the qb.

    This is where I see Avril at SAM to be a force. You have Red manning his position, not a rusher, but a run stopper and then Avril on pass play rush the passer with Bennet on the other side rushing as well.

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  • Atradees wrote:This is a great team and .net great fans to learn from.


    I know right? I can't wait until my 3 year old is old enough to play ball so I can coach. I'll have those little bastards running the 4-3 under just like Coach Pete! :)
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  • I'm not so sure about "replace" Bryant, more of "push" him.

    Bryant had a down year by his new contract standards. So Pete and John made a concerted effort to go out and draft high motor players that'll push Red to get back to the form we need him. But if Red can't get back to form? Then yes we're talking about potential replacement.
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  • Sgt. Largent wrote:I'm not so sure about "replace" Bryant, more of "push" him.

    Bryant had a down year by his new contract standards. So Pete and John made a concerted effort to go out and draft high motor players that'll push Red to get back to the form we need him. But if Red can't get back to form? Then yes we're talking about potential replacement.


    pretty much, yeah. But if Red can't do what he's supposed to do for whatever reason, it'll be good to have a replacement Red on board.

    Also, Red's contract gets really expensive ($7m) around the same time Richard Sherman and Russell Wilson's contracts come due (2015 & 2016 respectively). It'll be a lot easier to cut him or demand he restructure with a suitable replacement waiting in the wings...
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  • I think so. He's got amazing speed for a D-Lineman. He can chase runners down or cut them off and shut down the run on his side of the field.

    Ideally, if Bennett plays well and we can find a way to keep him after this season, we would have Bennett at LEO and Williams at run-stuffing DE. People would be totally unable to run on our team with that package in the game. Sub in Avril on third down at LEO and move Bennett inside...I'm drooling.
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  • Sgt. Largent wrote:I'm not so sure about "replace" Bryant, more of "push" him.

    Bryant had a down year by his new contract standards. So Pete and John made a concerted effort to go out and draft high motor players that'll push Red to get back to the form we need him. But if Red can't get back to form? Then yes we're talking about potential replacement.


    Red needs no push, IMO. His health determines if he 'returns to form.' Jesse is for rational purposes and insurance against Red coming up lame. The rotation might reduce Red's reps enough to where his foot issues are less likely to flare up.
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  • Yes. This is the year where PC/JS selected players for the future. If it's this year, great, but me thinks it's next year when the Hawks need to sign ET, Shern, etc. Cutting players with big contracts with players on first contracts make sense.

    Williams is projected to replace Red
    JHill is projected to replace Mebane
    Harper is projected to replace Rice
    Simon is projected to replace Browner
    Ware is projected to replace RealRob
    The slew of OLinemen will replace whomever
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  • Atradees wrote:The Elephant end would be good for him my opinion. Size and mobility. Slide him to 3 tech DT and watch Hill play the 5 with his agility. Why? Hill would be very active and around the ball. Many parts will be mixed and matched. I am sure nothing is set in stone. We are loads deep on paper....I would imagine it would depend upon the match up and the rookie learning curve as well. Hill and Williams. So much potential.
    This is a great team and .net great fans to learn from.


    Elephant is LEO . . . Clemons, Avril, Irvin. Not sure Williams fits that role.
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  • I don't think they would value red's position that much over where he is at now so I don't see his contract going up much cuz other teams won't pay more for him
    They know that coaches and players who get better are going to be picked up by other teams so they actually encourage that and bring in new talent to compete
    They will almost never pay more than the market value for a player unless he has some specific qualities they covet
    The harvin trade surprised me but with this draft it made sense , so tear up last years play book this oughta be fun
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  • McGruff wrote:
    Atradees wrote:The Elephant end would be good for him my opinion. Size and mobility. Slide him to 3 tech DT and watch Hill play the 5 with his agility. Why? Hill would be very active and around the ball. Many parts will be mixed and matched. I am sure nothing is set in stone. We are loads deep on paper....I would imagine it would depend upon the match up and the rookie learning curve as well. Hill and Williams. So much potential.
    This is a great team and .net great fans to learn from.


    Elephant is LEO . . . Clemons, Avril, Irvin. Not sure Williams fits that role.


    RDE. Reds 5 tech. My bad.
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  • He's the guy that replaces A.Branch.

    McDaniel graded out in the bottom of the league against stopping the run. I would assume McDaniel will start unless Williams really pushes for his job in TC.
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  • McGruff wrote:
    Atradees wrote:The Elephant end would be good for him my opinion. Size and mobility. Slide him to 3 tech DT and watch Hill play the 5 with his agility. Why? Hill would be very active and around the ball. Many parts will be mixed and matched. I am sure nothing is set in stone. We are loads deep on paper....I would imagine it would depend upon the match up and the rookie learning curve as well. Hill and Williams. So much potential.
    This is a great team and .net great fans to learn from.


    Elephant is LEO . . . Clemons, Avril, Irvin. Not sure Williams fits that role.


    :cry: Uhh this is incorrect. Elephant is Red Bryant...LEO is Clemons when healthy. They are two separate positions.
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  • This is an awesome situation in which redundancy is a very very good thing. Our brain trust knows the kind of bodies, skills, and attitudes they want and they're doing a great job replicating personnel to fit the roles.

    I don't follow the Giants closely, but when they last won the Super Bowl it seemed they had a never-ending rotation of strong, fast D linemen. I've always wanted to see the Hawks pull that off. We may just be on the verge of making it happen.
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  • From what i read pertaining to his draft grade, his strengths were run stopping and disrupting the pocket, his weaknesses were getting to the QB, and was pretty much a non factor on 3rd downs and obvious passing downs... I also read he was more effective on the inside as well....
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  • truehawksfan wrote:Yes. This is the year where PC/JS selected players for the future. If it's this year, great, but me thinks it's next year when the Hawks need to sign ET, Shern, etc. Cutting players with big contracts with players on first contracts make sense.

    Williams is projected to replace Red
    JHill is projected to replace Mebane
    Harper is projected to replace Rice
    Simon is projected to replace Browner
    Ware is projected to replace RealRob
    The slew of OLinemen will replace whomever


    I don't get where everyone assume Williams a Red Bryant Replacment. IMO he is what PC said he is a BRANCH replacement at 3 technique. IMO SCruggs/ Bennett are more likely to be Red's replacement. They aren't as big, but offer much more of an upgrade as pass rushers.
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  • lukerguy wrote:He's the guy that replaces A.Branch.

    McDaniel graded out in the bottom of the league against stopping the run. I would assume McDaniel will start unless Williams really pushes for his job in TC.


    I'm not sure I follow you, if McDaniel was so bad against the Run, than Williams should have a better chance at starting than not, if McDaniel is that weak in the most important task asked of the 3-technique in this system.
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  • Atradees wrote:
    McGruff wrote:
    Atradees wrote:The Elephant end would be good for him my opinion. Size and mobility. Slide him to 3 tech DT and watch Hill play the 5 with his agility. Why? Hill would be very active and around the ball. Many parts will be mixed and matched. I am sure nothing is set in stone. We are loads deep on paper....I would imagine it would depend upon the match up and the rookie learning curve as well. Hill and Williams. So much potential.
    This is a great team and .net great fans to learn from.


    Elephant is LEO . . . Clemons, Avril, Irvin. Not sure Williams fits that role.


    RDE. Reds 5 tech. My bad.


    No problem. Easy mistake.

    It never made sense to me that in the old Bill Walsh terminology "elephant" was the small DE.
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  • lukerguy wrote:
    McGruff wrote:
    Atradees wrote:The Elephant end would be good for him my opinion. Size and mobility. Slide him to 3 tech DT and watch Hill play the 5 with his agility. Why? Hill would be very active and around the ball. Many parts will be mixed and matched. I am sure nothing is set in stone. We are loads deep on paper....I would imagine it would depend upon the match up and the rookie learning curve as well. Hill and Williams. So much potential.
    This is a great team and .net great fans to learn from.


    Elephant is LEO . . . Clemons, Avril, Irvin. Not sure Williams fits that role.


    :cry: Uhh this is incorrect. Elephant is Red Bryant...LEO is Clemons when healthy. They are two separate positions.


    Wrong. Elephant was the old Niners/Cowboys terminology for the LB/DE hybrid position played famously by Charles Haley.

    In Carroll's treminology the same position is called the LEO.
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  • http://patspropaganda.com/post/39003317 ... t-position

    But let’s backpedal a bit. At 6-foot-5, 270 pounds, McGinest fit the physical prototype for the elephant, which basically is a linebacker/defensive end hybrid.


    Better yet . . . http://www.seahawks.com/news/articles/a ... -call-him-‘Leo’/b7b6abb4-3cbd-4140-9806-a46c2c813322

    "I like the position I’m playing now – which is the ‘Leo’ spot,” Clemons said Tuesday after the team’s first OTA practice of the offseason. “And I’m having fun doing it.”

    Clemons can thank Carroll, for acquiring him and also the position he is playing.

    Carroll learned the spot – then called “Elephant” – as the defensive coordinator for the San Francisco 49ers (1995-96) under coach George Seifert. He then used it when he was the head coach with the New England Patriots (1997-99) and at USC.
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  • No. Red is a beast and goes a long way to define the identity of our defense.
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  • Tical21 wrote:No. Red is a beast and goes a long way to define the identity of our defense.


    I love Red and totally agree with what you are saying here . . . But . . .

    After this season Red will be 30 years old, and is due a $3million roster bonus which will bring his 2014 salary to $7.5million dollars. At a time when Sherman, Thomas and Okung will all be eligible for extensions.

    It's not hard to do the math. 2013 is the make or break year for Red. the structure of the contract was such that it forces the team to make a decision in 2014.
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  • The coaching staff will have to see how he fits, but I imagine there's some hope from the front office that he will at least upgrade the 3-tech over Branch with the chance to replace Red if he doesn't play at the 7.5 million level he's owed in 2014.

    Williams is a versatile guy and I know Pete has said they see him as a 3-tech, (and I fully agree. I've been saying it since January he's a better version of Branch and can play the same role), but I wouldn't take what Pete says as the full truth. I think they want some competition and insurance at the 5-tech, too.

    If you remember the selection of KJ Wright, Pete said they wanted to to "provide depth at MLB" and "we like him at the Mike", but sure enough a couple weeks into training camp we saw KJ taking snaps at SAM, Aaron Curry's position at the time, which imo was the plan the whole time. I could see the same thing with Williams and Red where the idea is to play him at the 3-tech but hope he can grow into the 5-tech role, maybe saving 7 million in the process.
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  • He will see some time at 3tech for sure and at NT not sure if he will see time at the 5tech or not but it's way to early to lock these guys into spots because Pete isn't even sure where everyone will play yet he said as much.
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  • I think Williams will probably see more time at the 3-tech than the 5-tech in ideal circumstances this year. That said, I think it's pretty obvious that Seattle drafted Williams for Red Bryant depth. We didn't have depth for Bryant after losing Branch. McDonald isn't that guy. McDaniels isn't that guy. Jordan Hill possibly could be, but Williams is a much more obvious fit for the Red Bryant role and Hill was primarily drafted as a prototypical 3-tech.

    I think there is a pretty good chance that Bryant loses his job to Williams by next season. For all the grief Thurmond gets for being injury prone, Bryant has had even more injury issues. And he's one of Seattle's most expensive defenders. Red Bryant has almost no guaranteed money after this season and is due a roster bonus next spring, meaning that there is a lot of incentive for Seattle to move on from Bryant next year. Bryant will have to step up in a big way this year to stay on the team, especially since you know the Seahawks are going to be looking at trimming contracts next offseason.

    Maybe Bryant stays no matter what, but I'd feel a heck of a lot better replacing Bryant with Williams than replacing Rice with Harper or Miller with McCoy if Seattle is looking to free up cap space.
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