Bevell is at it again... bad plays against a weak Defense

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  • Now I know the majority of you are going to blame the defense for this loss. And while you certainly aren't wrong, I would argue we could have still easily won with proper offensive play calling.

    I have 3 drives in particular where I think Bevell failed hardcore in this game:

    Our 1st drive of the game it's 2nd and 5 and we go to Turbin and lose 3 yards. Lynch had already ran for 5 yards on his only carry up until that point. Why in the world would you go to Turbin on the 2nd run of the game? Lynch is a PROVEN monster he makes Turbin look pathetic in comparison. So why would we go to Turbin on 2nd and 5 on our first drive of the game? The result we lose 3 yards with Turbin, it's now 3rd and 8 allowing the Charger's to blitz... they sack Wilson for a loss of 13 yards.


    Our 3rd drive of the game it's 1st and 10 and we go for a short pass to the left for BRYAN WALTERS for no gain... why did we go to Walters on 1st and 10 throwing to him in the backfield??? We would have been MUCH better off going to Harvin, Baldwin, Lynch, Turbin, Coleman... Pretty much that play would of been better if we threw it to ANYBODY OTHER THAN WALTERS... So now it's 2nd and 10 Wilson gets sacked for a loss of 9 yards. We then FINALLY let Beast Mode run the ball... but his 5 yard run is pretty worthless when it's 3rd and 19. Why not give Wilson a chance to slice up the the Chargers defense? CARSON PALMER PUT UP 308 PASSING YARDS AGAINST THE CHARGERS IN WEEK 1... YET WE DON'T LET WILSON TAKE A SHOT ON 3rd AND 19???


    Our 8th drive of the game it's 1st and 10 and we yet again neglect Lynch when he obviously should of had at least 1 touch here (he had just ran for 7 yards earning us this 1st down)... instead we run two passing plays both resulting in incompletions. So now we are 3rd and 10 with Lynch having no runs on 1st and 2nd down, Sweezy has a false start forcing us into a very ugly 3rd and 15. Here's where we lost the game in my opinion, Wilson runs for 13 yards giving us a very realistic 4th down with just 2 YARDS TO GO! WE ARE NOW IN THE 4th QUARTER WITH 8 MINUTES TO GO BUT LYNCH HAS ONLY 6 CARRIES (6 Yards Per Carry)... Wilson is also averaging 9 yards in his two rushes. THE CHARGERS HAD 24 FIRST DOWNS AT THIS POINT... MEANWHILE OUR OFFENSE WAS ON PACE FOR ABOUT 500 YARDS IF WE HAD 30 MINUTES OF POSSESSION TIME... Every single obvious indication in this game would tell you that our offense was on fire and our Defense was atrocious. Our offense has the ball on 4th and 2 when we are averaging 7.2 yards per play and Marshawn Lynch is fresh with only 6 carries... YET WE PUNT THE BALL AWAY...


    You are simply not going to have a better opportunity than 4th and 2 when your offense has been on fire all day. Why in the world would we not let Lynch, Harvin, or even Wilson run the ball there? Instead we punt the ball and end up getting the ball back with 3 minutes left (it was kinda unlikely we would even get the ball back with 3 min left without them scoring though), and now we have 89 yards to go with 3:04 remaining.

    We lose the game with an incomplete pass in a 4th and 11 situation with 89 yards to go...

    We could have very easily won the game on the previous drive if we had gone for it on 4th and 2 with 64 yards to go...



    Conclusion:

    In the 1st half we had 2 punts, both these punts were due to bad play calling.

    We went to Turbin instead of Lynch who turned a 2nd and 5 into a 3rd and 8 leading to Wilson being sacked in an obvious passing situation.

    We then went to Walters on a 1st and 10 once again giving their defense momentum leading to a sack on 2nd and 10.

    Out of that sample of 6 plays resulting in 2 punts we had 4 horrible play calls. WE DID NOT APPEAR TO HAVE ANY RECEIVERS READY TO BAIL OUT WILSON TO AVOID HIS SACKS!

    1) Harvin 5 yards short pass GOOD
    2) Turbin -3 yards run up middle BAD WHY ISN'T LYNCH RUNNING ON THE 2nd CARRY OF THE GAME?
    3) Sack -13 yards BAD WE GAVE THEM MOMENTUM FROM BAD PLAY CALL TO TURBIN
    4) Punt BAD

    1) Walters no gain short pass BAD WHY DID WE GO TO WALTERS IN THIS SITUATION WHEN WE HAVE SO MANY OTHER PROVEN GUYS WHO COULD EXECUTE THIS PLAY BETTER THAN WALTERS?
    2) Sack -9 yards BAD THEY FELT OVERCONFIDENT SINCE WE RAN SUCH A BONEHEADED PLAY WITH WALTERS AND SO THEY BLITZED... THIS WOULDN'T HAVE HAPPENED IF WE GAINED A FEW YARDS FROM LYNCH ON 1st DOWN
    3) Lynch 5 yard run BAD WHY DID WE RUN HIM ON 3rd AND 19?
    4) Punt BAD


    And then not going for it on 4th and 2 when Wilson had a 120+ passer rating, we were averaging 8.3 yards per rush, 7.2 yards per play, on pace for about 500 yards if time of possession was even... a situation where our DEFENSE HAD GIVEN UP 24 FIRST DOWNS UP TO THAT POINT and the Time of Possession was 36 minutes to 16 minutes in their favor??? BAD

    We were over confident with our play calls very early going to guys like Turbin and Walters who failed on drives that could of won the game. There's no reason we couldn't have put up 28 points in the 1st half with proper play calling, Wilson ended the 1st half 8/9 with a 155 passer rating, Lynch only ran the ball 3 times.

    We didn't slow down the clock at all because we underutilized Lynch. This combined with some bad play calling caused our Defense to stay on the field for WAY too long.

    And we still had a chance to win the game even though our Defense was awful, but instead of going for it on 4th and 2 when our Offense was on pace for 500 yards (given 30 minutes possession) we punt it away and never get another incredibly good opportunity to take the lead.

    Lynch should be pissed with just 6 carries...

    Harvin should be pissed with just 1 pass target compared to last week he went 7/7.

    Our entire offense should be pissed they weren't given a chance to go for it on 4th and 2 on a day our Defense looked pathetic. I blame Bevell for his poor offensive play calling today, he miserably failed to appropriately utilize our 2 best offensive weapons Harvin and Lynch.
    Last edited by Tokadub on Sun Sep 14, 2014 5:21 pm, edited 5 times in total.
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  • The punt on 4th & 2 was the big one.
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  • 4th and 2 punt KILLED US in this game... I was screaming why the FFFFF do you not go for it??? We could' t stop them and we were driving.. wow at least others were seeing this as I was...
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  • Bevell was fine. An inability to get off the field on third down was why this team lost. The punt is Pete's call, and by itself wasn't a bad decision. They did get the stop and the ball with enough time to score. They just didn't. Hats off to the Chargers.
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  • If Russell made that fist down we score on that drive.. That is frustrating.. he was a 1 and 1/2 short...
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  • You think the decision to punt it on 4th and 14 was a bad decision? :lol:
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  • 4th and less than 2 yards..
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  • But...I thought Bevell was amazing? That's what I heard all week.
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  • Not sure Bevell make the call to go for it on 4th down. does he?
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  • Wow, great post tokadoob. I'm shocked! :D

    Good points.

    Doug Baldwin had a horrible game too.
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  • What is says is the staff believes in the Defense more than us fans do.. I think that is fair.. We saw them getting beat play after play... We don't see everything the coaches see.. In the end we did stop them but went from 4th and 1 on on th 40 to getting the ball back with much less time in our own side of the field.

    Did we have better chance going for it on 4th (given the way the defense was playing??).. No one knows but a lot of casual observers say yes.. but in the end we'll never know..

    Sucks but we had no chance after that decision..
    Last edited by redeye81 on Sun Sep 14, 2014 5:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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  • I can't fathom the decisions to starve the Beast instead of feeding him, and barely trying to use Percy.

    Talk about two players that should be utilized a lot...SMH.
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  • Yeah! How dare Seattle not score 35 points!

    2 punts. That's how many the D forced. 2. Get one more and remove the Harvin kickoff fumble and the offense has more to work with. Likely seven more points as they scored TDs on 3 of their 7 drives.
    Last edited by Sarlacc83 on Sun Sep 14, 2014 5:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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  • That 4th and two was when I knew they lost that game, rely on that offense to do its job. The gimmicky stuff with Lockette and then Walters got on my nerves. Anyways we lost due to the turnover and lousy third down defense.
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  • RolandDeschain wrote:I can't fathom the decisions to starve the Beast instead of feeding him, and barely trying to use Percy.

    Talk about two players that should be utilized a lot...SMH.

    This, X1000. Not getting off the field on 3rd down plus these 2 factors cost the Hawks the game IMO.
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  • i rather lose by running Beastmode on 4th and 2 than punting.. end of story for me.. sorry.
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  • Sarlacc83 wrote:Yeah! How dare Seattle not score 35 points!

    2 punts. That's how many the D forced. 2. Get one more and remove the Harvin kickoff fumble and the offense has more to work with. Likely seven more points as they scored TDs on 3 of their 7 drives.

    There are a number of teams that score a lot while their defense sucks. (Cowboys and Bears last year?) Yeah, our defense let us down. That's why I don't like our lack of ferocity on offense in games. We don't play offense to win games, we play offense to not lose, in simplistic/general terms. We play offense like our defense will NEVER surrender more than 14 points to anyone, ever.

    Sarlacc, please justify the lack of attempting to utilize Lynch & Harvin today. Serious request.
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  • RolandDeschain wrote:I can't fathom the decisions to starve the Beast instead of feeding him, and barely trying to use Percy.

    Talk about two players that should be utilized a lot...SMH.

    Yep, agreed, but then again I'm not a Bevell fan so that shouldn't be too shocking. I thought his playcalling was poor today. This was just one ugly assed game all around.
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  • Use your weapons and get the 1st down don't punt it away.. Scared play that don't sit well..
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  • RolandDeschain wrote:
    Sarlacc83 wrote:Yeah! How dare Seattle not score 35 points!

    2 punts. That's how many the D forced. 2. Get one more and remove the Harvin kickoff fumble and the offense has more to work with. Likely seven more points as they scored TDs on 3 of their 7 drives.

    There are a number of teams that score a lot while their defense sucks. (Cowboys and Bears last year?) Yeah, our defense let us down. That's why I don't like our lack of ferocity on offense in games. We don't play offense to win games, we play offense to not lose, in simplistic/general terms. We play offense like our defense will NEVER surrender more than 14 points to anyone, ever.

    Sarlacc, please justify the lack of attempting to utilize Lynch & Harvin today. Serious request.


    The cowboys and bears averaged less points per drive last year than we did today.
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  • RolandDeschain wrote:
    Sarlacc83 wrote:Yeah! How dare Seattle not score 35 points!

    2 punts. That's how many the D forced. 2. Get one more and remove the Harvin kickoff fumble and the offense has more to work with. Likely seven more points as they scored TDs on 3 of their 7 drives.

    There are a number of teams that score a lot while their defense sucks. (Cowboys and Bears last year?) Yeah, our defense let us down. That's why I don't like our lack of ferocity on offense in games. We don't play offense to win games, we play offense to not lose, in simplistic/general terms. We play offense like our defense will NEVER surrender more than 14 points to anyone, ever.

    Sarlacc, please justify the lack of attempting to utilize Lynch & Harvin today. Serious request.


    I have no idea why they wouldn't feed those two nor did I during the game Injury concerns? I don't know. That's on Pete to explain.

    My point is that the offense had a small sample size today and they still managed to play efficiently. At the same time, small sampling makes otherwise insignificant issues that are part of a game's natural flow much larger in hindsight. Would you have guessed the D would play like crap at the beginning of the game? I didn't and it appears Bevell didn't either. Trust unrewarded. Just like the 4th and 2 punt (that I was against).
    Last edited by Sarlacc83 on Sun Sep 14, 2014 5:41 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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  • Sucks i think we are in trouble if we lose next week to the Broncos.. The cardinals are already 2-0 ... 49ers look to win tonight.. this sucks..
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  • redeye81 wrote:If Russell made that fist down we score on that drive.. That is frustrating.. he was a 1 and 1/2 short...

    so your blaming Wilson? Really. Wow
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  • RolandDeschain wrote:
    Sarlacc83 wrote:Yeah! How dare Seattle not score 35 points!

    2 punts. That's how many the D forced. 2. Get one more and remove the Harvin kickoff fumble and the offense has more to work with. Likely seven more points as they scored TDs on 3 of their 7 drives.

    There are a number of teams that score a lot while their defense sucks. (Cowboys and Bears last year?) Yeah, our defense let us down. That's why I don't like our lack of ferocity on offense in games. We don't play offense to win games, we play offense to not lose, in simplistic/general terms. We play offense like our defense will NEVER surrender more than 14 points to anyone, ever.

    Sarlacc, please justify the lack of attempting to utilize Lynch & Harvin today. Serious request.

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    25 pass plays
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    Not a lot of plays total though - Bev's didn't get too many oportunities. I am surprised at the run/pass totals though.
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  • No Anthony.. Wilson made a great attempt to get the 1st down.. He wasn't given chance to go for it on 4th down.. that is the point..
    Last edited by redeye81 on Sun Sep 14, 2014 5:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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  • redeye81 wrote:If Russell made that fist down we score on that drive.. That is frustrating.. he was a 1 and 1/2 short...

    so your blaming Wilson? Really. Wow
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  • The offense did not lose this game. Bevell did not lose this game. The inability of the defense to stop the chargers offense lost this game. You people are it ting this loss on the failure to go for it on 4th and 2? Seriously?! There was still 6 minutes left in the game and we were on their side of the field. Down by 6 with 6 minutes to go does not mean that you panic and go for it. They held them on the next possession and got the ball back with plenty of time to win the game. I am seeing way too many places on the internet with people blaming the offense. The offense played pretty well. But when you only have the ball for a little over 17 minutes vs almost 43 and are only out gained by about 90 yards you need to hold your head high. This loss is completely on the defense. Period. End of story.
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  • Anthony why repeat posts? Russell obviously didn't get the chance on the 4th down that is the point everyone is making..
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  • You are forgetting the most important fact.

    It would not have been 4th and 2 had Sweezy not committed that critical penalty a play or 2 before...
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  • Sarlacc83 wrote:Would you have guessed the D would play like crap at the beginning of the game? I didn't and it appears Bevell didn't either. Trust unrewarded. Just like the 4th and 2 punt (that I was against).

    No, I wouldn't have guessed it either, but I have also stated quite a few times over the past two years that I strongly dislike our "play offense to not lose the game" philosophy - and that's on Pete, ultimately. I hate our reliance on amazing defense. It's unfair to the defense.
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  • RolandDeschain wrote:There are a number of teams that score a lot while their defense sucks. (Cowboys and Bears last year?) Yeah, our defense let us down. That's why I don't like our lack of ferocity on offense in games. We don't play offense to win games, we play offense to not lose, in simplistic/general terms. We play offense like our defense will NEVER surrender more than 14 points to anyone, ever.

    I think we're going to see the end of this type of thinking Roland, and I think we've begun to see evidence of it already. Here's what I mean.....Our defense had a season for the ages last year, a season that will be hard to duplicate if not impossible. This year we are seeing a lot more of RW throwing on first down, 4 wides on like 2nd and 5, etc. I think with the new rules, Pete and Bevell know we will need to score more points to win like we did last year.

    Considering the maturity of Russ and the things I just mentioned, not a bad strategy. The problem with it today was threefold.....number one we didn't run enough to keep their defense honest. That leads me to point number two, the o-line didn't protect well enough to make this approach successful and not running enough to keep their D honest was a large contributer to this. We ran well last week and the pass pro was better. Simple? Yes, but still the truth. And lastly, if you're going to open things up, you simply must utilize one of the best weapons in the game in Percy. That was a real mistake. You are spot on IMO asking these questions.

    While Pete might not say these things in public, I think he'll know they failed when it comes to running Marshawn only 6 times and not using Percy enough. Coaches will loikely learn from their mistakes this week too. At least I sure hope they do.
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  • redeye81 wrote:What is says is the staff believes in the Defense more than us fans do.. I think that is fair.. We saw them getting beat play after play... We don't see everything the coaches see.. In the end we did stop them but went from 4th and 1 on on th 40 to getting the ball back with much less time in our own side of the field.

    Did we have better chance going for it on 4th (given the way the defense was playing??).. No one knows but a lot of casual observers say yes.. but in the end we'll never know..

    Sucks but we had no chance after that decision..


    The above post does not compute with the post below.

    Sarlacc83 wrote:Yeah! How dare Seattle not score 35 points!

    2 punts. That's how many the D forced. 2. Get one more and remove the Harvin kickoff fumble and the offense has more to work with. Likely seven more points as they scored TDs on 3 of their 7 drives.


    The staff may have believed in the defense to get the job done, but clearly they were not getting it done. And sure, we don't see everything the coaches see, but if they couldn't see the defense out there almost the entire game getting their asses handed to them, unable to get off the field and rest, or stop the Chargers from converting first down after first down, they certainly shouldn't have trusted them to get the job done after that punt. At least not as much as they should have trusted the offense to convert two yards to keep the drive alive.
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  • Sailor, Reality is when the rubber hits the road.. They couldn't stop the chargers all game. I think the coaches had more faith then we did.. Maybe they should have but i wasn't seeing it.. They needed to help the defense out and go for it when they had the threat to score late in the game.. oh well it's over with now..
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  • The only problems I have with the play calling is:

    we under utilized Lynch. He was effective, and yes we were playing from behind a lot, but it seemed to me that the Hawks were completely ambivalent concerning time of possession. Even if we chew up some clock and get a FG instead of one of those punts, it gives the defense a rest and lets them recoup.

    We over utlized the jet sweep. When we busted it out in the 2nd half, the Chargers were ready for it.

    Wilson was a yard and a half short from picking up that first down. The reason we had a 3rd and 15 was Sweezy got a false start. We were driving and probably would've gotten a FG that drive.

    Irvin also shoved Rivers out of bounds. If he doesn't do that, the Chargers kick a FG. Take away 4 points.

    Both plays were completely avoidable. Both costs us points. That was the game right there....if we played smart just those two times, we weather everything else and get the win by 1 point.

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  • Tokadub wrote:Our 3rd drive of the game it's 1st and 10 and we go for a short pass to the left for BRYAN WALTERS for no gain... why did we go to Walters on 1st and 10 throwing to him in the backfield??? We would have been MUCH better off going to Harvin, Baldwin, Lynch, Turbin, Coleman...


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  • Odds were against us converting the 4th and 2. Statistically, we are near the bottom of the league in such situations and that's why we didn't go for it. Risk management.

    Not converting would have definitely sealed our fate so punting was the correct call as we regained possession with an adequate number of TOs and time remaining on the clock. Not going for it on 4th and 2 didn't lose us this game and the math says it actually positioned us to win this game.

    Our inability to convert in such situations falls more on Cable than it does Pete or Bevell, imo, ...unless you want to hold Pete totally accountable because it was he that hired Cable. I'd rather just write this game off and move onto the next. Everyday is a school day and today we got schooled.
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  • MontanaHawk05 wrote:
    Tokadub wrote:Our 3rd drive of the game it's 1st and 10 and we go for a short pass to the left for BRYAN WALTERS for no gain... why did we go to Walters on 1st and 10 throwing to him in the backfield??? We would have been MUCH better off going to Harvin, Baldwin, Lynch, Turbin, Coleman...


    Sometimes you just throw it to whatever guy is open.


    I could be wrong Montana but I think in that case it was one of those planned quick throws like a bubble screen behind the LOS. That's why the criticism; he'd rather see that type of play go to Harvin (me too).
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  • hawksfansinceday1 wrote:I think we're going to see the end of this type of thinking Roland,

    Relying on your whole team winning via offense? I absolutely agree. Guess what, though? We have the same exact philosophy...On the other side of the spectrum. We rely on our defense, lol. I'd love to see BOTH units go balls to the wall every week.
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  • HawkWow wrote:Odds were against us converting the 4th and 2. Statistically, we are near the bottom of the league in such situations and that's why we didn't go for it. Risk management.

    Not converting would have definitely sealed our fate so punting was the correct call as we regained possession with an adequate number of TOs and time remaining on the clock. Not going for it on 4th and 2 didn't lose us this game and the math says it actually positioned us to win this game.

    Our inability to convert in such situations falls more on Cable than it does Pete or Bevell, imo, ...unless you want to hold Pete totally accountable because it was he that hired Cable. I'd rather just write this game off and move onto the next. Everyday is a school day and today we got schooled.


    While normally I would agree with your general statement there I think in this case you'd be ignoring the way this game unfolded.

    Normally the Seahawks Defense isn't awful, and normally our Offense isn't averaging 7.2 yards per play.

    Last season Denver and Philedelphia led the league in this category with 6.2 Yards Per Play.

    Last season Seattle was ranked 12th with 5.6 Yards Per Play.

    Tonight the Seahawks averaged 7.2 yards per play WHICH IS A FULL YARD MORE THAN THE HISTORICALLY GREAT DENVER BRONCOS LAST SEASON!

    While 1 Yard Per Play might not sound like a lot the difference between the Bronco's 6.2 if you go a yard lower to 5.2 you are now the Tennesse Titans who were ranked #21.


    http://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/yards-per-play

    So when I look at this game from a statistical sense it makes no sense to punt the ball from both our defensive and offensive perspectives. It would have been a MUCH HIGHER CHANCE TO WIN THIS PARTICULAR GAME GOING FOR IT ON 4th AND 2.

    Our coaches straight up failed with this choice :(

    I think when evaluating our win % with going for it on 4th and 2 compared to punting you have to consider several things specific to this game and not our past history:

    - Chargers ended the game with 26 first downs (almost equal to Denver's historically great offense last season which averaged 27). It was very fortunate that we even got the ball back after our punt, any game that the opposing team has over 25 first downs you should not expect to stop them period.

    - To secure the win all the Chargers needed to do was score a Field Goal, they would of been up 9 points.

    - The Chargers had totally dominated the time of possession, that combined with their First Down totals made it very unlikely that we would have time to score without some kind of Hail Mary assuming they didn't score the Field Goal.

    - Statistically when a team has 26 First Downs they are probably likely to score at least a field goal on well over 50% of their drives. In this game the Chargers scored on 60% of their drives going 6/10.

    So basically punting it in that situation was giving them a +50% chance to win the game straight up.

    - Last Season the Seahawks were 54.5% on 4th down conversions going 6/11.

    http://www.sportingcharts.com/nfl/stats/4th-down-efficiency/2013/

    That was without Harvin and WITHOUT A GAME WHERE WE ARE ON PACE FOR ABOUT 500 YARDS WITH 30 MINUTES OF POSSESION.

    So we were ranked 13th in 4th down conversion rate last season. Even the rank 20 Jaguars converted 43.3% of 4th downs.

    - Denver converted 88.9% of their 4th down conversions last season going 8/9. So for a good offense it's pretty much a sure thing. We have Harvin, Lynch, and Wilson I simply cannot believe we would fail, nor do I think it's statistically wrong for us to go for it on 4th and 2.

    With those 3 players we should never expect that we can't get 2 yards... that's just pathetic and should be nearly impossible with a good play call against such a terrible Defense like the Chargers.
    Last edited by Tokadub on Sun Sep 14, 2014 6:58 pm, edited 5 times in total.
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  • I just counted. Total number of pass attempts, passes, and runs for Lynch and Harvin combined?

    13.

    PATHETIC. Lynch should have about double that number HIMSELF in a game. Plus, several of those Lynch passes were unplanned dump passes from a severely under pressure DangeRuss Wilson.

    Ugh, the more I think about this, the more angry I am about ignoring those two for today's game plan. Why not send Percy on some go routes, too? Even not planning to throw to him, he'll pull coverage away from the middle. JESUS.
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  • Tokadub wrote:
    HawkWow wrote:Odds were against us converting the 4th and 2. Statistically, we are near the bottom of the league in such situations and that's why we didn't go for it. Risk management.

    Not converting would have definitely sealed our fate so punting was the correct call as we regained possession with an adequate number of TOs and time remaining on the clock. Not going for it on 4th and 2 didn't lose us this game and the math says it actually positioned us to win this game.

    Our inability to convert in such situations falls more on Cable than it does Pete or Bevell, imo, ...unless you want to hold Pete totally accountable because it was he that hired Cable. I'd rather just write this game off and move onto the next. Everyday is a school day and today we got schooled.


    While normally I would agree with your general statement there I think in this case you'd be ignoring the way this game unfolded.

    Normally the Seahawks Defense isn't awful, and normally our Offense isn't averaging 7.2 yards per play.

    Last season Denver and Philedelphia led the league in this category with 6.2 Yards Per Play.

    Last season Seattle was ranked 12th with 5.6 Yards Per Play.

    Tonight the Seahawks averaged 7.2 yards per play WHICH IS A FULL YARD MORE THAN THE HISTORICALLY GREAT DENVER BRONCOS LAST SEASON!

    While 1 Yard Per Play might not sound like a lot the difference between the Bronco's 6.2 if you go a yard lower to 5.2 you are now the Tennesse Titans who were ranked #21.


    http://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/yards-per-play

    So when I look at this game from a statistical sense it makes no sense to punt the ball from both our defensive and offensive perspectives. It would have been a MUCH HIGHER CHANCE TO WIN THIS PARTICULAR GAME GOING FOR IT ON 4th AND 2.

    Our coaches straight up failed with this choice :(

    I think when evaluating our win % with going for it on 4th and 2 compared to punting you have to consider several things specific to this game and not our past history:

    - Chargers ended the game with 26 first downs (almost equal to Denver's historically great offense last season which averaged 27). It was very fortunate that we even got the ball back after our punt, any game that the opposing team has over 25 first downs you should not expect to stop them period.

    - To secure the win all the Chargers needed to do was score a Field Goal, they would of been up 9 points.

    - The Chargers had totally dominated the time of possession, that combined with their First Down totals made it very unlikely that we would have time to score without some kind of Hail Mary assuming they didn't score the Field Goal.

    - Statistically when a team has 26 First Downs they are probably likely to score at least a field goal on well over 50% of their drives. In this game the Chargers scored on 60% of their drives going 6/10.

    So basically punting it in that situation was giving them a +50% chance to win the game straight up.

    - Last Season the Seahawks were 54.5% on 4th down conversions going 6/11.

    http://www.sportingcharts.com/nfl/stats/4th-down-efficiency/2013/

    That was without Harvin and WITHOUT A GAME WHERE WE ARE ON PACE FOR ABOUT 500 YARDS WITH 30 MINUTES OF POSSESION.

    So we were ranked 13th in 4th down conversion rate last season. Even the rank 20 Jaguars converted 43.3% of 4th downs.

    - Denver converted 88.9% of their 4th down conversions last season going 8/9. So for a good offense it's pretty much a sure thing. We have Harvin, Lynch, and Wilson I simply cannot believe nor do I think it's statistically wrong for us to go for it on 4th and 2.

    With those 3 players we should never expect that we can't get 2 yards... that's just pathetic and should be nearly impossible with a good play call against such a terrible Defense like the Chargers.


    Excellent points and all deserving of careful consideration by the staff. I think they did so...but I could be wrong. But in my case, I'm a math guy. It took me (too) many years to overcome my urge to bet with my emotions and to let math dictate my play. I think Pete did that today.

    To me, much worse than not going for it on 4th and 2 is the belief that we cannot convert a 4th and 2 while seeing ourselves as a "power football" team. Not suggesting the run is our sole option in such an instance, but I am suggesting every team, including our own, knows we suck at 3rd / 4th and shorts. They know even with Lynch we are not likely going to pick up a 4th and 2 so there is a carry over that also hurts our chances of converting via pass. Like a few others in here, I've been screaming for O-line since before the Irvin mystery pick and today, the picks of Irvin, Michael and Richardson didn't do squat in allowing us to go for a 4th and 2. All eyes are on us, we are the team to beat and everyone is keeping and comparing notes.

    btw, I am not condemning the Richardson pick. I just feel he, like Michael, was a luxury we couldn't afford.
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  • HawkWow wrote:To me, much worse than not going for it on 4th and 2 is the belief that we cannot convert a 4th and 2 while seeing ourselves as a "power football" team.

    It's even worse than that. S.D. wasn't stopping our run at all the few times we did run it, that 4th & 2 was all but a guaranteed conversion. Wussing out like little girls is not the Pete Carroll Seattle Seahawks, yet it's exactly what happened there. I don't get it, at all.
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  • hawk45 wrote:
    MontanaHawk05 wrote:
    Tokadub wrote:Our 3rd drive of the game it's 1st and 10 and we go for a short pass to the left for BRYAN WALTERS for no gain... why did we go to Walters on 1st and 10 throwing to him in the backfield??? We would have been MUCH better off going to Harvin, Baldwin, Lynch, Turbin, Coleman...


    Sometimes you just throw it to whatever guy is open.


    I could be wrong Montana but I think in that case it was one of those planned quick throws like a bubble screen behind the LOS. That's why the criticism; he'd rather see that type of play go to Harvin (me too).


    Yeah the play definitely looked designed to throw to Walters.
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  • RolandDeschain wrote:
    HawkWow wrote:To me, much worse than not going for it on 4th and 2 is the belief that we cannot convert a 4th and 2 while seeing ourselves as a "power football" team.

    It's even worse than that. S.D. wasn't stopping our run at all the few times we did run it, that 4th & 2 was all but a guaranteed conversion. Wussing out like little girls is not the Pete Carroll Seattle Seahawks, yet it's exactly what happened there. I don't get it, at all.



    I'm not telling you anything you don't already know, Ro, but as you know, running for 6 on 1st and 10 is much different than running for 6 on 4th and 2. I don't have the numbers at my disposal, but I'm confident we are in the bottom 20% of the league in such conversions and that's the number most pertinent to the situation, imo. I too love gutsy football, but with our crap track record regarding this topic, I think we'd be even more up in arms had we went for it, not converted, then lost. I could be wrong.
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  • scrap the empty backfield on 1st and 2nd down and most of our plays work. The empty backfield screws us everytime. Defense pins their ears back and wilson either throws it out of bounds or takes a sack. The worst play of the game is always on an empty backfield play.
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  • I can't blame Bevell for this loss because our D was clearly outclassed today, but I do think we tried to a get a little too cute at times.
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  • This thread is laughable. Truly. Where are the people calling for Dan Quinn's head? Why wasn't our defense ready for the heat and hurry up? How did we not account for Rivers scrambling on multiple occasions? Why weren't we bumping at the line? How did we let a 34 year old TE embarrass us?

    This place is so unbalanced.

    Our offense was fine but couldn't get a drive together when it mattered. That was my only issue with them. The last two drives were abysmal. Beyond that, they played better than our defense did today.
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  • storm74 wrote:scrap the empty backfield on 1st and 2nd down and most of our plays work. The empty backfield screws us everytime. Defense pins their ears back and wilson either throws it out of bounds or takes a sack. The worst play of the game is always on an empty backfield play.


    Excellent observation. I hate 'em and I'm unsure why we are gravitating towards them. Is it part of Bevell's Percy factor?
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  • How can someone blame Bevell when the defense made SO many boneheaded plays?

    Seriously, I saw Malcom Smith hold on a huge 3rd and long, Of course they got a first down. Shorltly after that, he whiffed on an easy tackle. So instead of them punting from their own 5, they drive the ball down the field, then Irvin makes the dumbest mistake ever.

    They score, we lose.

    Not Bevell, sorry, you are WAY off base.
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  • Well sure, the defense most definitely has its share of the blame. But let's not pretend Bevell got more than three drives to score any points here. Lotta fault to go around this game.
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