Why I posted a hypothetical poll

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Why I posted a hypothetical poll
Sat Oct 20, 2012 8:37 am
  • Yesterday Iposted a hypothetical poll asking who you thought would have given us a better chance to win had we not drafted Russell Wilson - Matt Flynn or Tarvaris Jackson. The results were pretty much what I expected. Over 80% of Seahawk fans on .net thought that Matt Flynn would have given us the best chance to win. Certain people voiced their opinion that the poll was stupid. Some suggested that I'd be comparing Wilson to TJack and showing Wilson was doing worse than TJack therefore somehow winning the argument that we should start Flynn. Those people would like to preemptively strike at that argument because the stats show that TJack over the second half of last season - when the Seahawks finally gelled, WAS playing better than Wilson has the first half of this season. But that is not the reason for the poll. There is something to that argument that is pertinent, however.

    If I was to compare any stretch of TJacks last season with Wilsons, the comparison, for the most part, would be apples and oranges. His first 7 games he threw for more yardage than Wilson, was dealing with a far more porous offensive line, did not have a rushing game to complement him and the defense wasn't nearly as good as it is now, yet he passed for more yards per game than Wilson.

    So what? As any Wilson defender will tell you, Jackson didn't play 5 games in 25 days. Didn't face a bunch of the top rated defenses during that time. Jackson has shown us all he'll ever be and Wilson has so much upside, yada, yada, yada.

    Or I could compare Jacksons last 7 games after the team gelled, as one person posted on that poll. Jackson had a much better stat line than Wilson did when given better pass pro and better rushing attack. Clearly Jackson is doing better than Wilson right?

    Again, so what? Who did Jackson face during that period? Wilson's start was vs a far more brutal schedule than Jackson finished up against.

    No, the only comparisons that would carry any water at all would be games against common opponents and if you go there you find the two QB's are pretty much a wash. Against the Niners and Cards Jacksons team puts more points on the board, it's true, but look at each aspect of those games and you find Marshawn rushed for about the same, the defense gave up about the same amount of yards rushing and passing, TJacks stats are clearly similar to Wilsons. The scoring was greater, but there's no correlation between that and Wilson vs Jacksons play. They literally are a wash.

    No, the reason for my hypothetical poll was to point out something more important to .net than who is better Flynn or Wilson. What I wanted to show was the way Wilson supporters are treating Flynn supporters and point out that it is detrimental to this website for a small, fanatic group of Wilson supporters to lambast those who believe Flynn would have done betterj to the degree to which they are doing so.

    Over 80% of the people on this website think Flynn would have been an upgrade over TJack. Yes, the stats do show that Wilson has at best been a wash with TJack. Those stats are only partially pertinent, apples to oranges as I've just said, but the fact remains the same, this offense under Wilson has not improved over the offense we had last year under TJack.

    And over 80% of the responders to that poll believe that Flynn WOULD have done better than TJack.

    Yet instead of respecting their opinions and arguing with logic as to why the majority of the fanbase should be patient and take a wait and see attitude when they feel that Flynn would have done better, this small group of regular posters on .net who support Wilson - on faith, I might add, because they BELIEVE Wilson will improve and they BELIEVE is height won't be a factor - would rather alienate the majority of the fans on this board by referring to them as "stupid" or worse.

    Here's what I've seen on here in just the last couple days:

    Just in the poll alone:

    I can't wait to see what kind of crappy logic trap is being set up by this thread.


    It's not a crappy logic trap to recognize that this offense is doing worse than they were last year. They're rated 30th overall in offense and 31st in passing offense. This offense IS worse than it was when TJack led it. That's not "crappy logic trap", that's called a FACT. The poster above was being insulting to the general fan bases intelligence.

    When over 80% of the forum believes Flynn would have given us a better chance to win than TJack and those same people SEE that the offense is doing worse than it did last year under TJack, then you'd better have better ways to acknowledge the legitimacy of their conclusions than to insult anyone who dares point out the obvious. If you can't win with an intelligent, well presented rationale of why people should be patient and all you do is put them down, then guess what? You'll drive them away.

    This place will stop being the place where people go to find intelligent analysis of their favorite team. It'll just be the place to go if you like troll wars.

    This is why people who think Flynn should have been the starter are so passive around here:

    Purely my opinion and only my opinion, no facts involved or implied...
    Flynn starts and we are 6-1 right now.


    "purely my opinon and only my opinion" Translation: DON'T FLAME ME YOU F$#@!ING A@#$$%S!

    Because that's what certain members of this website have become - F$#@!ING A@#$$%S! in the way they rabidly attack anyone who thinks differently than they do.

    You've become Wilson Fascists. You know who you are. Guess what? So does everyone else on this board.

    But it's literally worse than that. In another thread THIS happened:

    BANNED.

    No, I'm not talking about the troll who came on here the other day dissing Sherman. I'm talking about some poor fellow who only survived long enough to make 5 posts before a Mod banned him. This event, actually, is what prompted the hypothetical poll to begin with. The guy made the mistake of being Pro-Flynn. What he said in his first post wasn't trollish at all. The response was that the Wilson Police got up in his face and were very insulting. Naturally, the guy didn't respond well to people getting all up in his S%^& for making what most people would think was a pretty inoffensive comment to begin with. He didn't realize that being politically incorrect would not be tolerated here anymore. Having an opinion that differed from the Mighty Wise Ones turned into a bannable offense. I'm still trying to find that thread. When I do I'll edit this post.

    You guys have gone overboard in your rabid defense of Russell Wilson.

    Hell, the "official" debate Wilson thread only made it EIGHT posts before someone on the Wilson Police thought it should be locked:

    Oh god this thread should just be locked. our fans are comical sometimes


    Put down the fans as "comical" and demand anyone not toeing the line have their thread locked down. For saying what? For pointing out that:

    I lOve Russ, but he got -2 yards of passing in the second half. That is absolutely ridiculous and unnacceptable


    Dude had to throw in the Obligatory I Love Russ ™ remark before he even said anything just so he could sidestep being labeled a "hater".

    You guys love to label people who have a different opinion than yours. Sound familiar? Fascists behave that way. Maybe Flynn supporters should call themselves the Flynn Defamation League. Look at the very first response to that thread:

    suck rocks


    You guys who've formed the Wilson Police include some of the very best posters on .net. Yet it is safe to say that when it comes to Wilson, you've lost all objectivity - and manners - and have become trolls yourselves. This site deserves better than that. It's readers deserve more respect than they're getting.

    When over 80% believe Flynn would have been better than TJack, how many of them do you think are frustrated waiting for Wilson to get past his rookie learning curve while the offense flounders? Believing in their hearts that Flynn would have done better than TJack and seeing with their eyes that the offense is doing worse now than it was before? Even if the two are a wash, TJack and Wilson so far, even if all of us understand that Wilson MIGHT have a better upside than Tjack, who was never going to be better, there are over 80% of the people here who honestly think Flynn would have done better than TJAck and how many of those do you think harbor the thought that he'd be doing better than Wilson right now?

    How many of those people are you willing to insult and ban and silence and turn into permanent lurkers, too afraid to voice their opinions because they KNOW how they'll be treated if they do.

    Just because you disagree doesn't give you the right to treat people this way. You're all better than that. You're all capable of making logical arguments.

    Two things are causing this:

    First and foremost: Charlie Whitehurst. yeah, that's right, this is mostly Charlie Whitehursts fault. The same people who are getting out of hand in their responses to anyone who wants to see Flynn start are doing so because they got so fed up last year hearing how CW should start. They're taking out their anger on Flynn supporters, many of whom could care less that a handful of trolls kept yakking about CW.

    This situation is about as different from last years as how TJack played last year is different than how Wilson's played this year. LET. IT. GO.

    Secondly: When the Wilson Police DOES try to make logical arguments why Flynn supporters are mistaken, (note I said mistaken, not stupid, trollish, worthy of banning, etc.) it always goes into this endless loop that comes down to 'he's a rookie, you have to be patient, you can't expect him to do it all". It's like most of you fail to see that's the whole point of the Flynn supporters. Whether they believe Wilson will someday be our QBOTF or not, Flynn supporters do not believe they should be patient waiting for it TODAY.

    Flynn supporters whole belief system is predicated upon the idea that you WIN NOW and that Flynn gives you the best chance. If Wilson isn't an upgrade over TJack - RIGHT NOW, screw the future - and you believe that Flynn IS an upgrade over TJack ( and over 80% of the people on here do), then it seems logical to Flynn supporters that it was a huge mistake to have started Wilson in the first place.

    WIN NOW vs build a dynasty. That's the REAL argument that the Wilson supporters refuse to engage in. It's because they can't win that argument with a Seattle fan base and they know it. In 2005 we thought we had something that was going to last. Two players is all it took to derail that dynasty. Hutch and Alexanders foot. Seattle fans know all to well not to buy into promises of tomorrow. Dreams, hopes, wishes don't come true in Seattle. I can name two players that could derail this dream of a dynasty: Lynch and Thomas. Turbin is good, but he's no Lynch. Sherman is awesome, but Thomas is something beyond special. He is the glue that holds that secondary together. You lose his speed back there and suddenly our CB's are exposed deep. You lose his incredible instincts for the ball and suddenly our secondary isn't all that anymore.

    Or maybe the injury plague that hit Holmgrens offensive line hits our defensive line instead. I took this quote from another thread:

    Injury wise, we have held up extremely well.This has been the healthiest I have seen a hawk team since I dont know when


    Is it realistic to expect that string of good health to continue?

    Flynn supporters have a legitimate reason to want to WIN NOW. We have a Super Bowl level defense. We have an elite rushing game. All we need to put us there is even just an adequate passing game. Telling them to be patient because Wilson is a rookie is not going to make any sense to them is it? That's not a logical way to win an argument.

    So Wilson supporters have resorted to treating Flynn supporters like they're calling for Whitehurst or something. And being insulting. And banning people. to the point they've intimidated most people into silence or having to come out with caveats before expressing their opinions (I love Russel Wilson, but...) (purely my opinion and only my opinion, but...). Well, I guess that means you 'win' the Flynn/Wilson debate, whatever that means. I always thought the purpose of this place was to talk about our Hawks and respect that we are all Hawk fans on here. But even the TJ/CW debate never got this bad.

    I'm pretty thick skinned. I don't give a crap when people attack me. That's why I'm not afraid to make this post or make that "stupid" hypothetical poll. (and yes, I hate hypothetical polls, they ARE stupid IMO, but you might see me make a snarky comment, you'll never see me call people stupid.) But it is rude and ill-mannered and shows a lack of substance in your defense of why we should risk this season to let Wilson develop on the field immediately instead of more slowly on the bench when you expect every Flynn supporter to be as thick skinned as I am.

    And when you start banning people who were only reacting to being attacked for non trollish posts to begin with, you've gone too far. And when you can't make a post supporting Flynn because you fear the backlash, you've gone too far.

    It's not just anybody behaving this way. If it were just the usual rude guy who seldom posts here or doesn't post a lot of things of substance, that would be one thing. It's the guys who are the heart and soul of this place who are doing this.

    That's got to stop guys. YOU"RE ALL BETTER THAN THAT. This place is a great place.

    So I hope my hypothetical poll clues you in to just how many people you are bullying, makes you stop and think and motivates you to start thinking about how the other side sees things and make logical arguments why they should accept Wilson over Flynn. Maybe you could explain why starting Wilson isn't really risking this season for the future. Or why you think the future is so bright we all gotta wear shades if we just wait to see if Wilson develops.

    Because, man oh man, after the way you guys have been treating people, I sure wouldn't want to be you if Wilson turns out to be a bust, Flynn walks and this team never gets over the hump. Or Wilson DOES become our QBOTF, the defense gets plagued by injuries, Lynch goes down or for whatever reason this team never gets over the hump anyways.

    Cuz years will pass before you hear the end of it.
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Re: Why I posted a hypothetical poll
Sat Oct 20, 2012 8:53 am
  • I really did not care much about the poll; I support and will do anything to support our quarterback, no matter if its Russell Wilson or Jon Kitna.
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Re: Why I posted a hypothetical poll
Sat Oct 20, 2012 8:55 am
  • Your whole post can be summed up in two sentences: "most people believe Flynn would do better in this offense than Tjack even though Wilson has identical stats to Tjack. therefore people should be more open about the possibility of Flynn being better than Wilson" there, now did you really need to make a dramatic poll and we write a novel to tell us that.
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Re: Why I posted a hypothetical poll
Sat Oct 20, 2012 8:58 am
  • Wait, people read my comments?
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Re: Why I posted a hypothetical poll
Sat Oct 20, 2012 8:59 am
  • Its one thing to be a Flynn supporter, its another to continue to call for it OVER and OVER and OVER again when its clear the direction the TEAM wants to go. Flynn guys need to drop it and get behind our QBOTF and QB of NOW.
    Last edited by ImTheScientist on Sat Oct 20, 2012 9:09 am, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Why I posted a hypothetical poll
Sat Oct 20, 2012 9:02 am
  • That's a lot of words to address to maybe ten people.
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Re: Why I posted a hypothetical poll
Sat Oct 20, 2012 9:04 am
  • T-Sizzle: Just so you know, calling people "non-fans" around here will get you placed on a lot of ignore lists very quickly. The fan card is frowned upon here.
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Re: Why I posted a hypothetical poll
Sat Oct 20, 2012 9:08 am
  • Im actually looking forward to Flynn being gone next season so we can all get behind the team and support Russell. Russell has more than earned 100% support....its a shame he isn't getting it. I erased my other post because Im not here to get into an argument of semantics Mr. Montana.
    Last edited by ImTheScientist on Sat Oct 20, 2012 9:11 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Why I posted a hypothetical poll
Sat Oct 20, 2012 9:10 am
  • T-Sizzle wrote:I didn't say "non-fans".....just said they "come off as being Anti-Seahawks".


    And that's different...how?
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Re: Why I posted a hypothetical poll
Sat Oct 20, 2012 9:22 am
  • I think your poll is flawed. People really have no idea if Flynn would have done better than TJack, but if it was a choice between TJack and Flynn they would rather stick Flynn out there to see what he could do because they don't think TJack is the future.
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Re: Why I posted a hypothetical poll
Sat Oct 20, 2012 9:25 am
  • therealjohncarlson wrote:Your whole post can be summed up in two sentences: "most people believe Flynn would do better in this offense than Tjack even though Wilson has identical stats to Tjack. therefore people should be more open about the possibility of Flynn being better than Wilson" there, now did you really need to make a dramatic poll and we write a novel to tell us that.

    I shouldn't have needed to, but the people who need to listen the most are to the point where IMO it was necessary to do so.
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Re: Why I posted a hypothetical poll
Sat Oct 20, 2012 9:36 am
  • T-Sizzle wrote:Its one thing to be a Flynn supporter, its another to continue to call for it OVER and OVER and OVER again when its clear the direction the TEAM wants to go. Flynn guys need to drop it and get behind our QBOTF and QB of NOW.

    I totally understand where you're coming from. but when that many people believe Flynn would have been an upgrade you've got to expect to hear it over and over and over again. The people leading the charge aren't going to quiet down until they've been given reason to. Calling them stupid, banning people over the smallest excuse, giving the same "Wilson's a rookie, be patient" excuses aren't gonna fly. Either Wilson improves on the field, which will shut everyone up, or you've got to go with the fact that it's kinda too late now. But it's not too late.

    Which means Wilson supporters should be thick skinned about it. Afterall, if you're truly as confident that the guy will be our QBOTF, then what do you have to worry about? What prompts this overreaction to what is truly a legitimate sentiment? Just back off.

    You're not going to silence the calls anyways. Only Wilson can do that.
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Re: Why I posted a hypothetical poll
Sat Oct 20, 2012 9:48 am
  • SalishHawkFan wrote:
    T-Sizzle wrote:Its one thing to be a Flynn supporter, its another to continue to call for it OVER and OVER and OVER again when its clear the direction the TEAM wants to go. Flynn guys need to drop it and get behind our QBOTF and QB of NOW.

    I totally understand where you're coming from. but when that many people believe Flynn would have been an upgrade you've got to expect to hear it over and over and over again. The people leading the charge aren't going to quiet down until they've been given reason to. Calling them stupid, banning people over the smallest excuse, giving the same "Wilson's a rookie, be patient" excuses aren't gonna fly. Either Wilson improves on the field, which will shut everyone up, or you've got to go with the fact that it's kinda too late now. But it's not too late.

    Which means Wilson supporters should be thick skinned about it. Afterall, if you're truly as confident that the guy will be our QBOTF, then what do you have to worry about? What prompts this overreaction to what is truly a legitimate sentiment? Just back off.

    You're not going to silence the calls anyways. Only Wilson can do that.


    He did, last week. Where was this post then?

    It's a ridiculous leap of logic to equate 80% of people believing Flynn would be an upgrade over T-Jack (I voted otherwise, BTW, their records would have been a push) with Flynn being an upgrade over Wilson. It's just as likely that Wilson > Flynn > T-Jack.

    It's also intellectually dishonest to respond to perfectly valid counterarguments about rookieness, opponent strength, and the need for QB development with the phrase "yada yada yada". I stopped reading your OP when I came across that. Dismissing such points out-of-hand like that reeks of "I believe what I want to believe, and I'm not changing my mind for any reason".
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Re: Why I posted a hypothetical poll
Sat Oct 20, 2012 9:56 am
  • MontanaHawk05 wrote:
    SalishHawkFan wrote:
    T-Sizzle wrote:Its one thing to be a Flynn supporter, its another to continue to call for it OVER and OVER and OVER again when its clear the direction the TEAM wants to go. Flynn guys need to drop it and get behind our QBOTF and QB of NOW.

    I totally understand where you're coming from. but when that many people believe Flynn would have been an upgrade you've got to expect to hear it over and over and over again. The people leading the charge aren't going to quiet down until they've been given reason to. Calling them stupid, banning people over the smallest excuse, giving the same "Wilson's a rookie, be patient" excuses aren't gonna fly. Either Wilson improves on the field, which will shut everyone up, or you've got to go with the fact that it's kinda too late now. But it's not too late.

    Which means Wilson supporters should be thick skinned about it. Afterall, if you're truly as confident that the guy will be our QBOTF, then what do you have to worry about? What prompts this overreaction to what is truly a legitimate sentiment? Just back off.

    You're not going to silence the calls anyways. Only Wilson can do that.

    I stopped reading your OP when I came across that..

    And I knew that before I even reached that sentence. It's generally a good way to put foot in mouth to respond to a thread you haven't read all the way through based upon the ASSUMPTIONS you have already preconceived on the subject.

    You were in angry mode when you clicked on the link. Just looking for an excuse to flame away. Your response should be the poster child for this thread. Shout down the other side and you don't have to listen.
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Re: Why I posted a hypothetical poll
Sat Oct 20, 2012 10:04 am
  • SalishHawkFan wrote:And I knew that before I even reached that sentence. It's generally a good way to put foot in mouth to respond to a thread you haven't read all the way through based upon the ASSUMPTIONS you have already preconceived on the subject.


    Nobody's going to finish a novel if the first chapter sucks. Why should I have assumed that you first addressed the counter-arguments with "yada yada yada" and then suddenly started giving them due credit later on? Would you assume such a thing in my shoes? If you want me to finish your post, the onus is on you to communicate better.

    And sorry to inconvenience your martyr complex, but I really wasn't in angry mode. You have no idea what I'm feeling right now. ;) Still wondering where this post was a week ago.
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Re: Why I posted a hypothetical poll
Sat Oct 20, 2012 10:15 am
  • SalishHawkFan wrote:You were in angry mode when you clicked on the link. Just looking for an excuse to flame away. Your response should be the poster child for this thread. Shout down the other side and you don't have to listen.


    Pot meet kettle. You've already made up your mind about anything that will be said in this thread. No discussion at all here.
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Re: Why I posted a hypothetical poll
Sat Oct 20, 2012 10:35 am
  • t-jack was successful in the early half of the year when we ran a "gimmick" offense as Sherm would call it.

    Jackson actually played BETTER as a player in the latter half of the season (ignoring the maybe 4-5 games where he was badly affected by his torn pec), but his stats were lower.

    Anyway, there's only one stat that matters
    Wilson has 4 wins after 7 games
    Jackson had 2. And he didn't even finish the game in one of those wins)
    For a offense that hasn't taken off this year (Lynch has how many TDs again?), 109 points (ignoring the JJ blocked punt return) sure looks good compared to the 97 scored with jackson under center last year, despite Jackson clearly outgaining Wilson in yardage
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Re: Why I posted a hypothetical poll
Sat Oct 20, 2012 10:37 am
  • I support both qb's. and have no argument against fans of either side. BUT, I personally like seeing RW in there, and my reasons are my own. As to the stats and such...and posters here thinking its time to give Flynn a look...well, he gets one....everyday in practice. 2 things are for sure.....everyone has the right to their opinion, and apparently, to Pete, who knows more about the situation than ANYONE here, its his opinion is that RW is the starter. Its his job thats potentially on the line.
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Re: Why I posted a hypothetical poll
Sat Oct 20, 2012 10:39 am

Re: Why I posted a hypothetical poll
Sat Oct 20, 2012 10:40 am
  • I wanted to tell you 2 things about your hypothetical post. ( or did you really make one?)

    1. I see you seem to think its all about you and what you think.

    2. Doesn't matter since I paid hypothetical attention to it.

    :141847_bnono:

    1.5 And I see you complain about how things are moderated on the forums rather than contacting us directly. I was going to say as usual but was afraid you'd take offense to that.
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Re: Why I posted a hypothetical poll
Sat Oct 20, 2012 10:44 am
  • tl;dr
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Re: Why I posted a hypothetical poll
Sat Oct 20, 2012 11:10 am
  • MontanaHawk05 wrote:That's a lot of words to address to maybe ten people.


    You didn't read his post objectively did you (not a question), neither did the other nine that you mentioned.
    People who aren't commited to the Wilson tribe should just walk on eggshells, or STFU and quit thinking for themselves.
    Matt Hasselbeck still has a plethora of fans that believe he was the best QB the Seahawks ever fielded, and they all hated it when all he did was dink and dunk ,but that style of QBing keeps the O-line from fatigue breakdown, and holding is also minimised..Flynn plays pretty much the same style, so that's why the 8o% Flynn supporters.
    Wilson is way more flamboyant, and more athletic, but the missing open Receivers ( was TJacks problem also) isn't just a problem that can be dismissed as- ONLY- the poor O-line protection,,You can't expect them to stop the Defensive attack forever.
    Who really knows where we'd be, had Carroll decided on Flynn instead of Wilson--WE WILL NEVER KNOW, but that doesn't make right the Wilson supporters (myself included) in getting snotty with someone with a different opinion.
    This place would be boring as hell if everybody agreed 100% of the time with every single issue.
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Re: Why I posted a hypothetical poll
Sat Oct 20, 2012 11:16 am
  • scutterhawk wrote:
    MontanaHawk05 wrote:That's a lot of words to address to maybe ten people.


    You didn't read his post objectively did you (not a question), neither did the other nine that you mentioned.
    People who aren't commited to the Wilson tribe should just walk on eggshells, or STFU and quit thinking for themselves.
    Matt Hasselbeck still has a plethora of fans that believe he was the best QB the Seahawks ever fielded, and they all hated it when all he did was dink and dunk ,but that style of QBing keeps the O-line from fatigue breakdown, and holding is also minimised..Flynn plays pretty much the same style, so that's why the 8o% Flynn supporters.
    Wilson is way more flamboyant, and more athletic, but the missing open Receivers ( was TJacks problem also) isn't just a problem that can be dismissed as- ONLY- the poor O-line protection,,You can't expect them to stop the Defensive attack forever.
    Who really knows where we'd be, had Carroll decided on Flynn instead of Wilson--WE WILL NEVER KNOW, but that doesn't make right the Wilson supporters (myself included) in getting snotty with someone with a different opinion.
    This place would be boring as hell if everybody agreed 100% of the time with every single issue.


    Being able to have a civil conversation with somebody who has an opposing view point is one thing. Grinding your same point over and over and over again while being condescending, thinking you know better than the coaches, and acting like you know something you don't and anybody else who doesn't agree is wrong or stupid or a homer or a fanboy are totally other things. Those things make this forum less enjoyable for the rest of us.
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Re: Why I posted a hypothetical poll
Sat Oct 20, 2012 11:19 am
  • I love the "poor us" argument. Don't put yourself out there over and over again, week after week and only bitching when theres an off game and you won't get scrutinized so heavily.
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Re: Why I posted a hypothetical poll
Sat Oct 20, 2012 11:22 am
  • He was exactly right about what he said. I was the author of the "I love Russ but" thread. I knew that if I voiced my mind I would be attacked and hated. There is this irrational support for a QB who has potential but hasn't really performed well enough to earn that. iMO our def and lynch has won every game except the NE game. The author of this thread nailed what I was thinking
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Re: Why I posted a hypothetical poll
Sat Oct 20, 2012 11:23 am
  • seahawksfanatic000 wrote:He was exactly right about what he said. I was the author of the "I love Russ but" thread. I knew that if I voiced my mind I would be attacked and hated. There is this irrational support for a QB who has potential but hasn't really performed well enough to earn that. iMO our def and lynch has won every game except the NE game. The author of this thread nailed what I was thinking


    You didn't want your feelings hurt over a message board? c'mon brah.
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Re: Why I posted a hypothetical poll
Sat Oct 20, 2012 11:25 am
  • seahawksfanatic000 wrote:He was exactly right about what he said. I was the author of the "I love Russ but" thread. I knew that if I voiced my mind I would be attacked and hated. There is this irrational support for a QB who has potential but hasn't really performed well enough to earn that. iMO our def and lynch has won every game except the NE game. The author of this thread nailed what I was thinking


    This is where you guys are wrong and why you get the reaction you do. There is nothing irrational about supporting the players that Coach has decided to put out on the field. I would argue, however, that it is irrational to bitch and moan and complain consistently about it on a message board where your words and feelings mean nothing to anybody but yourself and have absolutely no bearing on the actual situation. It doesn't matter if I support RW, it's not my fault that Coach doesn't see things the way you do. Thinking that way IS irrational.
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Re: Why I posted a hypothetical poll
Sat Oct 20, 2012 11:26 am
  • scutterhawk wrote:
    MontanaHawk05 wrote:That's a lot of words to address to maybe ten people.


    You didn't read his post objectively did you (not a question), neither did the other nine that you mentioned.
    People who aren't commited to the Wilson tribe should just walk on eggshells, or STFU and quit thinking for themselves.
    Matt Hasselbeck still has a plethora of fans that believe he was the best QB the Seahawks ever fielded, and they all hated it when all he did was dink and dunk ,but that style of QBing keeps the O-line from fatigue breakdown, and holding is also minimised..Flynn plays pretty much the same style, so that's why the 8o% Flynn supporters.


    How do you know about Flynn's style? I don't think I would feel comfortable saying anything about a QB till I have seen 2 seasons of starts. Flynn has only started 15 games in 9 years. I dunno....
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Re: Why I posted a hypothetical poll
Sat Oct 20, 2012 11:29 am
  • Throwdown wrote:
    seahawksfanatic000 wrote:He was exactly right about what he said. I was the author of the "I love Russ but" thread. I knew that if I voiced my mind I would be attacked and hated. There is this irrational support for a QB who has potential but hasn't really performed well enough to earn that. iMO our def and lynch has won every game except the NE game. The author of this thread nailed what I was thinking


    You didn't want your feelings hurt over a message board? c'mon brah.


    I didn't really care about what they said about me but I've witnessed threads were a posters posts are automatically discarded and the conversation is plagued by the controversy conveyed to that particular poster
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Re: Why I posted a hypothetical poll
Sat Oct 20, 2012 11:37 am
  • seahawksfanatic000 wrote:I didn't really care about what they said about me but I've witnessed threads were a posters posts are automatically discarded and the conversation is plagued by the controversy conveyed to that particular poster


    I think if someone who is questioning the QB positition right now actually brought something fresh and educational to the thread, they'd be taken more seriously. If you're gonna debate about something don't you think both sides would need to bring the best information possible without becoming a record stuck on repeat?

    Every QB thread we've had since week 1 has run the same circle everytime, its identical every week, go and check it out. We need some new fresh facts if you want your arguments to be considered. Other than that, the rest of us are in lock step with seeing Wilson the rest of the way because we think its rookie mistakes, and you're still going to try and change our minds with the same useless facts that we're dismissing.
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Re: Why I posted a hypothetical poll
Sat Oct 20, 2012 11:40 am
  • Throwdown wrote:
    seahawksfanatic000 wrote:I didn't really care about what they said about me but I've witnessed threads were a posters posts are automatically discarded and the conversation is plagued by the controversy conveyed to that particular poster


    I think if someone who is questioning the QB positition right now actually brought something fresh and educational to the thread, they'd be taken more seriously. If you're gonna debate about something don't you think both sides would need to bring the best information possible without becoming a record stuck on repeat?

    Every QB thread we've had since week 1 has run the same circle everytime, its identical every week, go and check it out. We need some new fresh facts if you want your arguments to be considered. Other than that, the rest of us are in lock step with seeing Wilson the rest of the way because we think its rookie mistakes, and you're still going to try and change our minds with the same useless facts that we're dismissing.


    Fresh facts? Are you kidding? The minute the game ended I posted my displeasure in wilsons performance, and the first post back I got was suck rocks. I presented fresh arguments and it was still totally discarded and attacked
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Re: Why I posted a hypothetical poll
Sat Oct 20, 2012 11:43 am
  • seahawksfanatic000 wrote:
    Throwdown wrote:
    seahawksfanatic000 wrote:I didn't really care about what they said about me but I've witnessed threads were a posters posts are automatically discarded and the conversation is plagued by the controversy conveyed to that particular poster


    I think if someone who is questioning the QB positition right now actually brought something fresh and educational to the thread, they'd be taken more seriously. If you're gonna debate about something don't you think both sides would need to bring the best information possible without becoming a record stuck on repeat?

    Every QB thread we've had since week 1 has run the same circle everytime, its identical every week, go and check it out. We need some new fresh facts if you want your arguments to be considered. Other than that, the rest of us are in lock step with seeing Wilson the rest of the way because we think its rookie mistakes, and you're still going to try and change our minds with the same useless facts that we're dismissing.


    Fresh facts? Are you kidding? The minute the game ended I posted my displeasure in wilsons performance, and the first post back I got was suck rocks. I presented fresh arguments and it was still totally discarded and attacked


    What fresh facts did you bring to the table?
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Re: Why I posted a hypothetical poll
Sat Oct 20, 2012 11:43 am
  • Throwdown wrote:
    seahawksfanatic000 wrote:I didn't really care about what they said about me but I've witnessed threads were a posters posts are automatically discarded and the conversation is plagued by the controversy conveyed to that particular poster


    I think if someone who is questioning the QB positition right now actually brought something fresh and educational to the thread, they'd be taken more seriously. If you're gonna debate about something don't you think both sides would need to bring the best information possible without becoming a record stuck on repeat?

    Every QB thread we've had since week 1 has run the same circle everytime, its identical every week, go and check it out. We need some new fresh facts if you want your arguments to be considered. Other than that, the rest of us are in lock step with seeing Wilson the rest of the way because we think its rookie mistakes, and you're still going to try and change our minds with the same useless facts that we're dismissing.


    Including what the Wilson supporters bring to the table.
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Re: Why I posted a hypothetical poll
Sat Oct 20, 2012 11:45 am
  • Shane Falco wrote:
    Throwdown wrote:
    seahawksfanatic000 wrote:I didn't really care about what they said about me but I've witnessed threads were a posters posts are automatically discarded and the conversation is plagued by the controversy conveyed to that particular poster


    I think if someone who is questioning the QB positition right now actually brought something fresh and educational to the thread, they'd be taken more seriously. If you're gonna debate about something don't you think both sides would need to bring the best information possible without becoming a record stuck on repeat?

    Every QB thread we've had since week 1 has run the same circle everytime, its identical every week, go and check it out. We need some new fresh facts if you want your arguments to be considered. Other than that, the rest of us are in lock step with seeing Wilson the rest of the way because we think its rookie mistakes, and you're still going to try and change our minds with the same useless facts that we're dismissing.


    Including what the Wilson supporters bring to the table.


    We bring the only fact to the table that matters: He's the starting QB.
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Re: Why I posted a hypothetical poll
Sat Oct 20, 2012 11:47 am
  • I stated that Wilson had under 20 yards throwing which was unacceptable for an nfl QB
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Re: Why I posted a hypothetical poll
Sat Oct 20, 2012 11:49 am
  • Which I believe is a FACT. Tell me the last tIme a team won with under 20 yards passing in the second half
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Re: Why I posted a hypothetical poll
Sat Oct 20, 2012 11:49 am
  • Zebulon Dak wrote:
    Shane Falco wrote:Including what the Wilson supporters bring to the table.


    We bring the only fact to the table that matters: He's the starting QB.


    Exactly, the same redundancy on both sides.
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Re: Why I posted a hypothetical poll
Sat Oct 20, 2012 11:49 am
  • seahawksfanatic000 wrote:I stated that Wilson had under 20 yards throwing which was unacceptable for an nfl QB


    Blew my mind. I'm changing my opinion. START FLYNN!!!
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Re: Why I posted a hypothetical poll
Sat Oct 20, 2012 11:53 am
  • Shane Falco wrote:
    Zebulon Dak wrote:
    Shane Falco wrote:Including what the Wilson supporters bring to the table.


    We bring the only fact to the table that matters: He's the starting QB.


    Exactly, the same redundancy on both sides.


    RW is the starting QB and I'm not responsible for that decision. Sorry if you don't like it but there's nothing any of us can do about it.
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Re: Why I posted a hypothetical poll
Sat Oct 20, 2012 11:57 am
  • Zebulon Dak wrote:
    Shane Falco wrote:
    Zebulon Dak wrote:
    We bring the only fact to the table that matters: He's the starting QB.


    Exactly, the same redundancy on both sides.


    RW is the starting QB and I'm not responsible for that decision. Sorry if you don't like it but there's nothing any of us can do about it.


    Again, Exactly. How many times has that card been played?
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Re: Why I posted a hypothetical poll
Sat Oct 20, 2012 11:58 am
  • Shane Falco wrote:
    Zebulon Dak wrote:
    Shane Falco wrote:Exactly, the same redundancy on both sides.


    RW is the starting QB and I'm not responsible for that decision. Sorry if you don't like it but there's nothing any of us can do about it.


    Again, Exactly. How many times has that card been played?


    That's not a card. It is in fact the way of things.
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Re: Why I posted a hypothetical poll
Sat Oct 20, 2012 12:00 pm
  • Shane Falco wrote:
    Zebulon Dak wrote:RW is the starting QB and I'm not responsible for that decision. Sorry if you don't like it but there's nothing any of us can do about it.


    Again, Exactly. How many times has that card been played?


    Its the only card we need right now until those questioning the position give us something to think about.
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Re: Why I posted a hypothetical poll
Sat Oct 20, 2012 12:01 pm
  • And FWIW, I am currently a Wilson supporter. I think he has shown some growth these last 2 weeks. I have always liked Wilson and supported him, I wanted them to start Flynn at the start of the season and still feel that way but once they made their bed and as long as Wilson continues to show growth and improvement I'm behind it.

    But this conversation was about one side being accused of redundancy when it actuallity it comes from both sides. It truely is more about people not wanting to hear about opinions that don't coincide with their own.
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Re: Why I posted a hypothetical poll
Sat Oct 20, 2012 12:02 pm
  • I don't want a card that is rendered ineffective agains a good defense. We should switch cards
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Re: Why I posted a hypothetical poll
Sat Oct 20, 2012 12:03 pm
  • Ok, this conversation is beyond ridiculous now. I'm done with it.
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Re: Why I posted a hypothetical poll
Sat Oct 20, 2012 12:04 pm
  • Shane Falco wrote:And FWIW, I am currently a Wilson supporter. I think he has shown some growth these last 2 weeks. I have always liked Wilson and supported him, I wanted them to start Flynn at the start of the season and still feel that way but once they made their bed and as long as Wilson continues to show growth and improvement I'm behind it.

    But this conversation was about one side being accused of redundancy when it actuallity it comes from both sides. It truely is more about people not wanting to hear about opinions that don't coincide with their own.


    It is redundant, but the "poor me" stuff is ridiculous, no one out here with pitchforks for anyone with a questioning view
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Re: Why I posted a hypothetical poll
Sat Oct 20, 2012 12:05 pm
  • seahawksfanatic000 wrote:I don't want a card that is rendered ineffective agains a good defense. We should switch cards


    Well what's stopping you? Write a letter! Make a phone call! Right this terrible injustice!
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Re: Why I posted a hypothetical poll
Sat Oct 20, 2012 12:08 pm

Re: Why I posted a hypothetical poll
Sat Oct 20, 2012 12:10 pm
  • Zebulon Dak wrote:
    seahawksfanatic000 wrote:I don't want a card that is rendered ineffective agains a good defense. We should switch cards


    Well what's stopping you? Write a letter! Make a phone call! Right this terrible injustice!


    Sarcasm is the tool of someone who has run out of things to say .
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Re: Why I posted a hypothetical poll
Sat Oct 20, 2012 12:13 pm
  • When Wilson was named the starter, I said I'd give him an 6-8 game grace period. Those first 6 games, he hasn't lived up to expectations but he's shown improvement. And that's the key. His overthrows, underthrows and other fundamentals have improved but still not where it needs to be. He still needs to be able to make multiple reads, and hit his check downs. I like his "go for broke" mentality on each down, but I also like high percentage of completions. His high risk, high reward style is not sustainable and will be easy to scheme and defend against. Yes, the coaches need to put him in better situations also.

    Against the 9ers, we knew that he was going to take a step back, but throwing all stats out the window, since stats alone don't tell the whole story, he didn't do anything terrible to lose the starting job at this point either. That was probably one of his better games despite the horrid stats.

    For the people arguing that the coaches are all-knowing and how dare fans question their decisions - Charlie Whitehurst debunks your whole argument. Coaches make mistakes too.
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