Cassius Marsh fined for late hit on Ryan Fitzpatrick

Why is he getting fined 18K? I don't remember it being helmet to helmet and IIRC it was questionable if he was late enough for a flag to begin with.

This is very frustrating.

I thought that it was helmet to helmet.

IIRC, Marsh aimed for just above the belt and Fitz ducked to create the h-h hit.

Unintended... but intent doesn't come into play on the penalty call.

onanygivensunday":vp151aln said:

I thought that it was helmet to helmet.

IIRC, Marsh aimed for just above the belt and Fitz ducked to create the h-h hit.

Unintended... but intent doesn't come into play on the penalty call.

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Even so, I think intent should come into play on the fine call.

rjdriver":26zenayc said:

Even so, I think intent should come into play on the fine call.

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The problem with intent is who confirms the intent? You really can't include that with any rules violations, otherwise anyone who hits a kicker/punter's leg didn't "intend" to, right?

It sucks sometimes, but it is what it is.

I think "intent" is probably best measured in the 10 seconds directly following the hit in question.

If the player helps the guy up, helps re-align the jersey, maybe a good-natured ass slap with a "you okay?": No fine.

If the player stands over the carcass, beats his chest, then leans down and yells "that's what you get!": Fine.

Fairly easy to measure, IMO.

^ regretting or looking like regretting bad actions may justify the amount of the fine especially if taunting afterwards, but in no way does it ever excuse the action.

In this case though intent should be ignored and more like at factual pieces. Did the hit come at a level that normally is not punishable - yes. Then without knowing intent it is very possible and even likely that no ill will was intended. Was it still helmet to helmet - yes. Minimum fine / no fine is justified

HoustonHawk82":1ldp5mie said:

I think "intent" is probably best measured in the 10 seconds directly following the hit in question.

If the player helps the guy up, helps re-align the jersey, maybe a good-natured ass slap with a "you okay?": No fine.

If the player stands over the carcass, beats his chest, then leans down and yells "that's what you get!": Fine.

Fairly easy to measure, IMO.

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The problem is with the interpretation by the Referees, which varies from one officiating group to another.
Some officials show more intolerance than others....Take for instance the Aaron Donald helmet to helmet when he planted Russell Wilson in game 2; there wasn't so much as a mild frown come from ANY of the asshole officials on that blatant chicken shit play by Donald.
The NFL Officials are consistent with their inconsistencies.
Intent.....LOLOL

I get that. I just get annoyed by the whole "lets watch the tape back and see what we can fine for" thing. The after-the-fact BS just isn't right.

Marsh clearly wasn't being malicous. At least, that isn't what I get when I watched it.

If the QB is upright and you hit him in the head, it should be a fine. There has to be intent hitting something 6 ft or more in the air.

I have a problem with this fine, as Fitz curled up right as Marsh was in the motion of tackling. How is a defender supposed to adjust to this ? Marsh was targeting his chest, and Fitz lowers his head right into the path of the incoming defender.

Meanwhile, it's common practice to let people ear hole Russell Wilson after the ball is clearly out and he is standing upright. If I'm Carroll (or hell, the NFLPA) I'm sending a couple of pictures of the LA Rams various helmet to helmet hits that weren't called on Wilson, then the video of the Marsh hit and ask "how exactly am I suppposed to coach my players not to do this, when we don't even know what they're doing?"

Meh. Michael had his head turned sideways, no call.

Read the collective bargaining agreement. It lays out exactly what a player will be fined for and how much that fine will be. If the both the player and NFLPA disagrees then there would be a grievance filed. If the NFLPA and the NFL can't work it out then there is probably an arbitration clause. Forget the woulda, coulda, shoulda. There is a contract between the NFL and the players (both of them signed it) and it trumps all.

scutterhawk":p0zsqkag said:

....Take for instance the Aaron Donald helmet to helmet when he planted Russell Wilson in game 2; there wasn't so much as a mild frown come from ANY of the asshole officials on that blatant chicken shit play by Donald.....

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Yeah, but Jeff Fisher. Asshat is part of the good ol' boys club.

Fitz tripped over his own lineman's feet and fell forward into Marsh's facemask. There's nothing else he could have done; it was an upright tackle with attempt to wrap up and he kept his head forward. They really need to make these types of calls reviewable or something because if it's a tight game coming down to the wire and the defense is trying to get home on a QB (which is their job), that call can be devastating.

Hawks46":ijtnxzic said:

Meanwhile, it's common practice to let people ear hole Russell Wilson after the ball is clearly out and he is standing upright. If I'm Carroll (or hell, the NFLPA) I'm sending a couple of pictures of the LA Rams various helmet to helmet hits that weren't called on Wilson, then the video of the Marsh hit and ask "how exactly am I suppposed to coach my players not to do this, when we don't even know what they're doing?"

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Don't forget the two times he was hit below the knees while in the pocket. Bennett gets called for that all the time, even if he's pushed into them.

Hawks46":yxcdgskj said:

If the QB is upright and you hit him in the head, it should be a fine. There has to be intent hitting something 6 ft or more in the air.

I have a problem with this fine, as Fitz curled up right as Marsh was in the motion of tackling. How is a defender supposed to adjust to this ? Marsh was targeting his chest, and Fitz lowers his head right into the path of the incoming defender.

Meanwhile, it's common practice to let people ear hole Russell Wilson after the ball is clearly out and he is standing upright. If I'm Carroll (or hell, the NFLPA) I'm sending a couple of pictures of the LA Rams various helmet to helmet hits that weren't called on Wilson, then the video of the Marsh hit and ask "how exactly am I suppposed to coach my players not to do this, when we don't even know what they're doing?"

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I'm so glad to hear someone call out the refs on letting Russell take all the cheapshots and late hits on him after he has let go of the ball, without penalty, seemingly encouraging our opponents to try and injury him further. As to Fitzpatrick's helmet to helmet call and ensuing penalty and fine, I'm all for the new rule, we have all seen to many players,great ones and otherwise, take these blows over their careers and the devastating effects they have had on them in the immediate and longterm, it needs to be minimized, ideally eliminated, but that is impossible, and plays like what happened with Fitzpatrick are evidence of that. There was no intent by the defender to go helmet to helmet with him, he went for the ground and lowered his head into line with where the defender was going at him and at a point in the play where neither of them could have avoided it. You could have made a case against Fitzpatrick for going head to head, since it was his actions that initiated the outcome, in my humble opinion. Leveing a fine on the defender was surely uncalled for in this instance. I think anytime 2 helmets colide there is going to be a flag and penalty, but fining a player who clearly showed no sign of intent in the instance needs to stop, or some players will figure what the heck I'm gonna get fined anyway and not worry so much about it when these sort of collisions occur. My two cents.

Does anyone have a gif or link to the penalty/late hit my Marsh? I would love to see it again.

IMHO what he did was unintentional. The QB and him collided together equally. The problem is the league protects QB's and the way Fitz head went back made it look bad. If Russell was hit that way we would look for a flag. I agree it was incidental but the league does not work that way. Marsh seems to always get short end of stick on these calls.

I still wonder who is reviewing these plays and calling for a fine? There was nothing "dirty" about that play.

253hawk":23h8kbn6 said:

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Thanks for posting the clip. It doesn't look like he was targeting Fitz but it also doesn't look like he was smartly avoiding the helmet to helmet contact.

I hate that they fined him for it and I definitely think they need to revise fines to separate intentional vs stupid but really Marsh is just guilty of being a little stupid on the tackle. He doesn't look like he is trying to hit his helmet but he also looks like with a little awareness he could have lowered his head and possibly prevented it or at least minimized it. Probably still draws the flag but at least he would have possibly avoided the fine.

Stupid is not pulling away or ducking while intentional is leading in or even head butting like we have seen from some against RW.

Marsh is playing extremely fast right now and it has cost us a couple times like the face mask on 3rd and long but he will figure it out. Hopefully he doesn't lose his intensity in the process.

Incidental contact all the way.

Total BS.