Too many men on the field penalty on the Seahawks

I have noticed this as a common penalty the Seahawks get called for often. Or, Carroll has to burn a time out to set the right people on the field.

This is something I have been thinking about lately. Why can't we clean this up and play a perfect game from a personnel grouping point of view? When you burn a timeout, I feel we are putting ourselves in a disadvantage which we can easily avoid it with a separation in the preparation kind of practice.

It also gives me a sense that some of the players are confused about the play or the assignments, if this happens often, where we can give up a huge play just by being confused about it.

I would love the coaches to emphasize this, as this is fundamental to understanding what are the assignments for a given play. I would love to hear everyone's thoughts on this.

I love how the announcers were freaking out about how the refs bailed us out.

Carroll was frantically calling time out, but you could see on TV that a guy was running full speed to get off the field. The ball had not been snapped yet.

Forgive me if I'm mistaken on this, but they won't get a penalty until the ball is snapped, so if the guy gets off the field, it's a non issue. Everyone keeps acting like the refs gave us the game on this, yet the penalty hadn't even occurred yet.

Hawks46":2dl4noej said:

I love how the announcers were freaking out about how the refs bailed us out.

Carroll was frantically calling time out, but you could see on TV that a guy was running full speed to get off the field. The ball had not been snapped yet.

Forgive me if I'm mistaken on this, but they won't get a penalty until the ball is snapped, so if the guy gets off the field, it's a non issue. Everyone keeps acting like the refs gave us the game on this, yet the penalty hadn't even occurred yet.

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I think the statement was that Seattle can't have two consecutive time outs, which, if true would make them correct.

Seems like I've seen teams use back to back timeouts to ice kickers. No?

Lol that was funny.

Posted this on the game day forum. Here it is in case anyone missed it. Lower half talks about timeouts.

http://www.nfl.com/rulebook/timing

seahawkfreak":2tg19l90 said:

Posted this on the game day forum. Here it is in case anyone missed it. Lower half talks about timeouts.

http://www.nfl.com/rulebook/timing

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Well, that's that. Thanks for the link. I'm not crazy after all.

Laloosh":3uyklcdf said:

Hawks46":3uyklcdf said:

I love how the announcers were freaking out about how the refs bailed us out.

Carroll was frantically calling time out, but you could see on TV that a guy was running full speed to get off the field. The ball had not been snapped yet.

Forgive me if I'm mistaken on this, but they won't get a penalty until the ball is snapped, so if the guy gets off the field, it's a non issue. Everyone keeps acting like the refs gave us the game on this, yet the penalty hadn't even occurred yet.

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I think the statement was that Seattle can't have two consecutive time outs, which, if true would make them correct.

Seems like I've seen teams use back to back timeouts to ice kickers. No?

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I'm not sure they can do that anymore.

Edit: well according to that link I'm wrong. I could have swore they changed the rule, guess I was wrong.

I read that rule on consecutive time-outs as there can be 2 consecutive time-outs but not by the same team and which ever team calls the second time-out only gets a 40-sec one.

Hawks46":2mlkh9r5 said:

I love how the announcers were freaking out about how the refs bailed us out.

Carroll was frantically calling time out, but you could see on TV that a guy was running full speed to get off the field. The ball had not been snapped yet.

Forgive me if I'm mistaken on this, but they won't get a penalty until the ball is snapped, so if the guy gets off the field, it's a non issue. Everyone keeps acting like the refs gave us the game on this, yet the penalty hadn't even occurred yet.

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... they did bail us out.

Team should have been flagged for an unsportsmanlike conduct penalty for calling 2 timeouts in a row.

And the guy running off the field wasn't going to make it .. hence the frantic TO.

Thought the link was pretty credible. Been seeing a lot of media saying otherwise without any sources.

Cowboy fans can't stop moaning about this.

I think it balances out the fumble that wasn't called on McFadden.

It could be worded a little more resolutely, not everyone seems to be absorb the "by opposing teams" part of that rule.

Cowboys fan whining is warranted in this instance. God, I hate saying that. I'm agreeing with the scourge of the earth.

IIRC the refs inadvertantly helped the Hawks out by blowing whistle.

Mick063":35o6ll5f said:

Cowboy fans can't stop moaning about this.

I think it balances out the fumble that wasn't called on McFadden.

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Just like every other fan base, including the Seahawks fans, when calls don't go their way in a game they lose.

I've been here after losses and seen the same complaints about refs and how they screwed up.

nanomoz":8ww92vzb said:

It could be worded a little more resolutely, not everyone seems to be absorb the "by opposing teams" part of that rule.

Cowboys fan whining is warranted in this instance. God, I hate saying that. I'm agreeing with the scourge of the earth.

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Link is not working for me any longer. You're saying that it states a team cannot call consecutive timeouts?

Here's the rule:

Rule 4, Section 5, Item 3 of the league rulebook prohibits consecutive timeouts within the same dead ball period for the same team. Per official rules, the refs are instructed to ignore the timeout request and allow play to continue. That's not what happened, though, with an official stopping the clock to inform Carroll that he couldn't call consecutive timeouts.

So why weren't the Seahawks flagged? According to Rule 4, Section 5, Item 4, a penalty would only be triggered if officials viewed the second timeout as an attempt to "freeze" the kicker, something Carroll wasn't trying to do.

BraveHeartFan":7utbsvox said:

Mick063":7utbsvox said:

Cowboy fans can't stop moaning about this.

I think it balances out the fumble that wasn't called on McFadden.

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Just like every other fan base, including the Seahawks fans, when calls don't go their way in a game they lose.

I've been here after losses and seen the same complaints about refs and how they screwed up.

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But this wasn't a screw up.

Seattle "got away with one" in the sense that the application of the rule allowed them to not get flagged for either penalty. Still, poor by the coaching staff.

Laloosh":3929xls1 said:

nanomoz":3929xls1 said:

It could be worded a little more resolutely, not everyone seems to be absorb the "by opposing teams" part of that rule.

Cowboys fan whining is warranted in this instance. God, I hate saying that. I'm agreeing with the scourge of the earth.

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Link is not working for me any longer. You're saying that it states a team cannot call consecutive timeouts?

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Section 5 Item 3 here:

http://static.nfl.com/static/content/pu ... Timing.pdf

The refs either should have penalized Carroll or ignored him (the refs almost always just ignore coaching gaffes that would lead to penalties) and thrown the flag when the ball was snapped rather than giving Carroll a timeout he couldn't use.

FlyHawksFly":110gwauv said:

Uncle Si":110gwauv said:

Here's the rule:

Rule 4, Section 5, Item 3 of the league rulebook prohibits consecutive timeouts within the same dead ball period for the same team. Per official rules, the refs are instructed to ignore the timeout request and allow play to continue. That's not what happened, though, with an official stopping the clock to inform Carroll that he couldn't call consecutive timeouts.

So why weren't the Seahawks flagged? According to Rule 4, Section 5, Item 4, a penalty would only be triggered if officials viewed the second timeout as an attempt to "freeze" the kicker, something Carroll wasn't trying to do.

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Item 4 is completely irrelevant to any of this.

The issue is that the refs totally blew it by whistling the play dead in response to Carroll trying to get a timeout he couldn't use, thereby stopping the Cowboys from snapping the ball and getting the 12th man flag.

That the refs stopped the clock to inform Pete Carroll he couldn't stop the clock is just preposterous. They messed up. It happens.

Likely didn't change the outcome of the game. Dallas couldn't get the ball into the endzone all day so there's no reason to think they would have made it even with a first down.

It's also unknown whether or not Dallas would have snapped the ball in time to get that penalty.

There's no penalty because it wasn't an attempt to ice the kicker. It was a timeout to be safe with the personnel and avoid a penalty.

The referee should have ignored Carroll's timeout request, but even if he didn't the Seattle player could have gotten off the field in time anyway.