Letter of the rule (with a Seahawks thought)

A lot of people are talking letter of the rule in regards to the batting of the ball in the end zone. How about we bring up the letter of the rule in regards to the not called horse collar tackle that occurred on third and goal from a country mile. Both of the defensive ends beat their men off the snap and Wilson starts to step up in the pocket, but Devin Taylor grabs Wilson inside the shoulder pads and yanks him backwards allowing Jason Jones to finish the sack. That should have given us first and goal again and we could have scored a touchdown. Since we are talking hypothetical situations after the fact.

I've seen a flag thrown for horse collar.
Has anyone ever seen a flag for batting the ball out of the end zone?

FlyHawksFly":39cfaujw said:

No horse collar on the QB in the pocket.

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Link?

FlyHawksFly":g56utliw said:

No horse collar on the QB in the pocket.

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Not picking on you, serious question, are you saying that there is a rule that says, it's legal to do the "horse collar" on the QB, as long as he is still in the pocket?

BASF":1o0z4oqk said:

FlyHawksFly":1o0z4oqk said:

No horse collar on the QB in the pocket.

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Link?

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Google NFL Horse Collar Rule and the .PDF to all the rules is the first link:

Rule 12, Section 2, Article 15

Horse-Collar Tackle. No player shall grab the inside collar of the back or the side of the shoulder pads or jersey pads or jersey, and pull the runner toward the ground. This does not apply to a runner who is in the tackle box or to a quarterback who is in the pocket. Note: It is not necessary for a player to pull the runner completely to the ground in order for the act to be illegal. If his knees are buckled by the action, it is a foul, even if the runner is not pulled completely to the ground.

Penalty: For a Horse-Collar Tackle: Loss of 15 yards and an automatic first down.

Seahawk":mwccufv5 said:

I've seen a flag thrown for horse collar.
Has anyone ever seen a flag for batting the ball out of the end zone?

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I have

N/M

Well there goes a good argument. :roll:

idahawks":1wg0onq1 said:

Seahawk":1wg0onq1 said:

I've seen a flag thrown for horse collar.
Has anyone ever seen a flag for batting the ball out of the end zone?

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I have

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Game? Date? Proof?

[tweet]https://twitter.com/AaronQ13Fox/status/651857573092552704[/tweet]

DTexHawk":39p19wf4 said:

Well there goes a good argument. :roll:

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There was something about a "batted ball" rule?... unno:

We could argue THAT in 40 different threads!! :mrgreen:

FlyHawksFly":2uk0a2y9 said:

pmedic920":2uk0a2y9 said:

FlyHawksFly":2uk0a2y9 said:

No horse collar on the QB in the pocket.

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Not picking on you, serious question, are you saying that there is a rule that says, it's legal to do the "horse collar" on the QB, as long as he is still in the pocket?

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Yes, I am. See the link provided up the thread.


It is truly amazing how few people actually know the rules.

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I dont know that being condescending to the poster is fair.

QB's have about a 3 inch hit radius, so yeah, it seems a bit obscure that they are allowed to be violently horse-collared as long as they are in the pocket.

I'm getting to be an old geezer who has watched way too much football, and I didn't know that either.

Don't feel bad your question was blown up, OP... I'm sure if you watched the replay of the last drive you would have seen something the Lions O-Line did that should have TECHNICALLY been called a Holding penalty (probably even more than once) that would have helped to stall or end that last drive, in that case the play in question might not have ever happened... Since we are talking hypothetical situations after the fact.

Much better argument is the fact that it wasn't a batted or punched ball

The ball was TAPPED out of bounds which has a technical difference from batting. Ie no wound up just a tap and the ball went out

Nevermind...

Section 3 - Bat

A Bat is the intentional striking of the ball with any part of the hand or arm. See 12-4-1.

Not picking on you, serious question, are you saying that there is a rule that says, it's legal to do the "horse collar" on the QB, as long as he is still in the pocket?[/quote]


Yes, I am. See the link provided up the thread.


It is truly amazing how few people actually know the rules.[/quote]



I dont know that being condescending to the poster is fair.

QB's have about a 3 inch hit radius, so yeah, it seems a bit obscure that they are allowed to be violently horse-collared as long as they are in the pocket.

I'm getting to be an old geezer who has watched way too much football, and I didn't know that either.[/quote]


Not trying to condescending to the OP. Merely amazed at how people who dedicate their lives to football know so little about it. The no horse collar on the QB rule comes into play almost every single week, and has since it became a rule a handful of years ago.[/quote]






Well it certainly is an odd rule, considering the golden treatment QB's get.

And like I said, I usually (not in this case lol) am very knowledgeable about football rules and I had no idea, so perhaps its not as commonly known as you believe it to be.

FlyHawksFly":21bvwvx8 said:

Hawkpower":21bvwvx8 said:

Well it certainly is an odd rule, considering the golden treatment QB's get.

And like I said, I usually (not in this case lol) am very knowledgeable about football rules and I had no idea, so perhaps its not as commonly known as you believe it to be.

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I never said it was commonly known, that is pretty much my point. It is amazing to me that calls/non-calls that happen (almost) every week AREN'T more commonly known. We, in Seattle, should be especially aware of it, because it happens quite a bit to Russ.

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Fair point and poor wording on my part. Meant to say that the rule is obscure enough (in my opinion) that fans shouldnt be railed on for not knowing it, especially since it makes no sense whatsoever.

chawx":1vn2nsul said:

Don't feel bad your question was blown up, OP... I'm sure if you watched the replay of the last drive you would have seen something the Lions O-Line did that should have TECHNICALLY been called a Holding penalty (probably even more than once) that would have helped to stall or end that last drive, in that case the play in question might not have ever happened... Since we are talking hypothetical situations after the fact.

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I don't feel bad at all. It is your last sentence that actually matters. No one else seems to have gotten that. There are parts of rules no one has ever heard of until it comes up in a game. As soon as one of the marquee quarterbacks lose a few weeks to a horse collar in the pocket the rule will be changed.

FlyHawksFly":3lahhadn said:

Not sure I was "railing" on anyone?

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I don't feel railed upon at all. I have been chastising people gently for over a decade now when they don't do their research. It was my turn.

The larger point remains, talking about hypothetical situations after the fact is pointless. For example, what if the Immaculate Reception was correctly called incomplete since the tip hit the ground?

twisted_steel2":1zjt20u8 said:

idahawks":1zjt20u8 said:

Seahawk":1zjt20u8 said:

I've seen a flag thrown for horse collar.
Has anyone ever seen a flag for batting the ball out of the end zone?

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I have

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Game? Date? Proof?

[tweet]https://twitter.com/AaronQ13Fox/status/651857573092552704[/tweet]

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I'm hoping the silence on idahawks part is due to looking for links of proof, otherwise... nice troll.

It should have been called, the rule is pretty damn clear...........you can't bat a ball in the endzone, no room for interpretation or backline judge judgement call.

But it wasn't, moving on.

Just tell all the haters what I've been saying, give us SB 40 back assholes and we'll apologize for this.

What's the definition of "bat"? To me be deflected it and didn't bat or punch the ball.