Graham versus Unger and Anthony

A big hello to all my friends here at the NET. It has been an eventful summer which has involved numerous injections in and around the upper spine, a visit to the Bahamas and Key West (my wife made me leave Hawk Hat at home), and the unexpected end of my last seventeen and a half years of employment due to a little shithead "efficiency expert" and out-sourcing.

But, that's all another story. We are quickly approaching the beginning of another year of hopes and wishes, moans and groans, exuberant highs and crushing blows. So, to open it all, I want input on the "mega trade" of Max Unger and the Hawk's first rounder for Jimmy Graham.

Who came out ahead on the deal?

What are the apparent positives and negatives?

As a bit of information, the 1st rounder turned into Stephone Anthony who has quickly transitioned into the defensive general garnering the headset. In addition, Unger has quickly melded into the community and has become a leader on the defense and has totally plugged the hole which hampered Drew Brees up the middle the past two seasons. I feel it will translate very favorably to the regular season.

Oh, and for any of the newbies around here, check out the Hawk Hat links.

Welcome back Guido. In about 4 years, I bet everyone just considers this trade a wash. No real winners, and no real losers. Your Aints plugged 2 holes, and we did also, albeit with 1 player. Good luck to you and your team, unless we play, in that case, phfhhhfffffffffffft on you guys.

Welcome back! I really enjoyed reading your Adventures with the Hawk Hat. Truly hysterical.

I would have to say the Seahawks came out ahead by quite a lot with this trade. The Saints' hands were sort of tied since they were in salary cap hell and needed to sign a new center. Carroll said he was worried the whole time while the trade was being negotiated that the Saints would pull the plug on the deal. Graham is one of the best receiving TEs in NFL history and has the potential to integrate seamlessly into this offense; my hope is that they will eventually give up on using him as an in-line blocker and instead line him up more outside at Split End or in the slot.

That said, Unger is an excellent center; you got a good one. I was not too impressed with the level of talent at the end of the First Round. Here is what PFF had to say today about Stephone Anthony's performance thus far:

New Orleans Saints: Stephone Anthony, LB (PFF Grade: -5.3)
It has been a bumpy transition for Anthony, a player who graded extremely well in college last season. He has been starting at middle linebacker for the Saints and has struggled mightily in his 97 snaps, grading negatively across the board in each of his last two games.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2 ... preseason/

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Hope he works out for you guys. In addition, the 4th Rounder you gave us became part of the package of picks that we used to trade up for Tyler Lockett, who has looked incredible this preseason as a kickoff and punt returner and WR.

Glad to see you back Guido. Sorry to hear about issues...

I am thinking that the Hawks ended up better on the deal as we know that we needed the offensive juggernaut that JG is. I think that you will see the Center go down in about week 7 and then be optimistic thru the rest of the season. I dont wish for it but expect it.

Be at peace with yourself...that is all I can offer, friend.

hawknation2015":29lz7w9j said:

Welcome back! I really enjoyed reading your Adventures with the Hawk Hat. Truly hysterical.

I would have to say the Seahawks came out ahead by quite a lot with this trade. The Saints' hands were sort of tied since they were in salary cap hell and needed to sign a new center. Carroll said he was worried the whole time while the trade was being negotiated that the Saints would pull the plug on the deal. Graham is one of the best receiving TEs in NFL history and has the potential to integrate seamlessly into this offense; my hope is that they will eventually give up on using him as an in-line blocker and instead line him up more outside at Split End or in the slot.

That said, Unger is an excellent center; you got a good one. I was not too impressed with the level of talent at the end of the First Round. Here is what PFF had to say today about Stephone Anthony's performance thus far:

New Orleans Saints: Stephone Anthony, LB (PFF Grade: -5.3)
It has been a bumpy transition for Anthony, a player who graded extremely well in college last season. He has been starting at middle linebacker for the Saints and has struggled mightily in his 97 snaps, grading negatively across the board in each of his last two games.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2 ... preseason/

Click to expand...

Hope he works out for you guys. In addition, the 4th Rounder you gave us became part of the package of picks that we used to trade up for Tyler Lockett, who has looked incredible this preseason as a kickoff and punt returner and WR.

Click to expand...

Definitely hope Graham is not counted on to block. His inability started telegraphing the play calling. Pass if he was in, run if he was out.

The 31st pick and a center who is oft injured and a possible cap casualty for a future Hall of Fame TE in his prime?

No contest, I would do that trade 10/10 times. Jimmy changes the entire dynamic of this team.

Welcome back btw. :thirishdrinkers:

Hawk_Nation":m179vqlc said:

The 31st pick and a center who is oft injured and a possible cap casualty for a future Hall of Fame TE in his prime?

No contest, I would do that trade 10/10 times. Jimmy changes the entire dynamic of this team.

Welcome back btw. :thirishdrinkers:

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Graham was also oft injured. Beware.

The offensive line mates has been talking up Unger's input. He is clearly a leader of which the team was in critical need.

Waaaayyyyy too soon to tell - kind of like grading a draft right after it happens.
I hope it works out well for both teams.
Good to see you posting on the board again - we will definitely all be cheering for the Saints on Sunday the 13th!

I hope Max stays healthy and gives you a full 16 games. He's a good player. It sucked to see him start breaking down the last few years.

Still seems kind of early to value.

Come back at the end of season, and we'll compare Ungers and Anthonys Approximate Value to Grahams and 1/3 of Tyler Locketts to see who actually came out on top.

Ultimately, we're still grading this trade based on "potential", i.e. the potential for Graham to integrate into a run-heavy offense, the potential for Unger to stay healthy a whole season, the potential for Anthony to be anything more than a preseason hero, etc.

I think it's too soon to say anyone came out ahead. Is Graham one of the best pure receiving TEs of all time? Yes. Will he look that way in this offense? That has yet to be proven. We need to know if Russell can build that relationship and trust. Sure, he has looked good on some plays, but the accuracy and timing has been off on others. His availability as a premiere "Redzone Threat" did not help us score TDs (scored ZERO this preseason). And I'm not trying to be a Debbie Downer here -- I think Graham has potential to be great in Seattle -- but let's be honest, we are basing our outlook of him on his historical performance in New Orleans only; nothing that's happened this preseason has proven his addition will bust open our pass or run game.

As far as Unger's value or loss thereof, check back with me at the end of the season when we can see the impact his loss had on Seattle's rushing numbers and whether or not he actually played 16 games for New Orleans.

I just hope it ends up being a win-win trade. Believe it or not, they do exist.

kearly":17p1ahd0 said:

I just hope it ends up being a win-win trade. Believe it or not, they do exist.

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Yes they do. I that is what I expect.

We knew what we had,
We had a oft injured center, who has issues snapping the ball, good luck Bree's.
We have a bad record of 1st rd draft choices.

We got a legitimate TE who we've been looking for.

I thing everyone got what they wanted.

I"m not missing the first round draft choice nor am I missing watching snaps bounce off the ground.

AsylumGuido":23x7nyua said:

kearly":23x7nyua said:

I just hope it ends up being a win-win trade. Believe it or not, they do exist.

Click to expand...

Yes they do. I that is what I expect.

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You shouldn't have to worry too much about a loss of a receiving threat. You already have a big receiver in Colston, and Brandin Cooks is legit.

I see it as a win-win trade since you guys needed a center and some cap relief and we needed another reliable offensive weapon for Russell Wilson. I wish Max Unger the best and I hope you guys like him.

AsylumGuido":2qgqjmv4 said:

Hawk_Nation":2qgqjmv4 said:

The 31st pick and a center who is oft injured and a possible cap casualty for a future Hall of Fame TE in his prime?

No contest, I would do that trade 10/10 times. Jimmy changes the entire dynamic of this team.

Welcome back btw. :thirishdrinkers:

Click to expand...

Graham was also oft injured. Beware.

The offensive line mates has been talking up Unger's input. He is clearly a leader of which the team was in critical need.

Click to expand...

When people say "oft injured" when referring to Unger, they are talking about injuries bad enough to cause him to miss games. He missed 10 last year and 3 the year before.

When you say "oft injured" when referring to Graham, you must mean something else because unless multiple different sources are wrong, he has missed 1 game the last 4 seasons and that was in 2012.

Anyway, as with most everyone else, I think it's WAAAAAAAAAYYYY to soon to say who came out ahead. They haven't even played a single regular season game yet. I will say this though, we got one of the best receiving TE's in the NFL and an absolute match up nightmare for opposing defenses. I know the term is somewhat cliche, but Graham is a dynamic weapon and a difference maker. You got a top ten center when healthy and a LB that so far has "graded negatively across the board" and is "struggling mightily".

I was STOKED when I first heard about the trade and am just as STOKED about it today. I think it was a fantastic trade for us.

Hey Guido!

Personally, I think the trade will end up being a wash. The Saints will see definite short term gains on the Line, and we'll see them in the passing game.

I am curious though, I just picked up Brandon Coleman on the waiver wire. Tell me something good about him, that only local fans will know.

I've heard whispers of training camp/pre-season excellence, but I'd like to hear more.

It's really way early to tell. We'll see how the season goes for both sides before starting to get a feel for how the trade will come about.

Personally, I hope the best for both teams. I have always liked Brees, even before he was completely disregarded in SD and forced out after they picked Eli (I mean Rivers) in '03 then ultimately being let go in '05. I really liked his game in college when he played at Purdue, I believe he was a finalist for the Heisman in '99 and 2000. Then, when you factor in his horrific shoulder injury at the end of 2005 really had me rooting for him to comeback, which he obviously did. Not to mention he played with a good friend of mine from HS, former FB Mike Karney. He told me that Brees is one of the most down to earth, good guys in football, flat out.

I think that NO will consider this trade a success if Unger can stay healthy. He does pick up slight injuries that can cause his game to suffer, more than you would like. Also, he's not got ideal upper body strength and depends more on his technique and experience to be effective. So any injuries, slight or serious can transform him from a Pro-Bowl level player, into below average guy, from week to week. Consistency was with out a doubt, Unger's major issue in Seattle over the last few years. In regards to the 1st rounder they picked up Stephone Anthony, that's more the "icing on the cake" type of guy in this trade. He's more of a, "what will he be in 3-5 years" guy, instead of "we expect big things right now" guy, regardless if he's starting or not. Factor in the cap relief and the Saints should be looking at this trade in a few years, as a win-win, but that's only if Anthony pans out and Unger can stay healthy and most importantly, effective for the next few years. Good luck!

From the Seahawks point of view, Graham seems like a no-brainer. He puts up All-Pro/Hall of Fame type numbers, year in and year out. Those numbers may come down a bit in this run first offense, but his value on 3rd downs and in the red-zone cannot be questioned. His run blocking leaves a lot to be desired. Although, I would assume that he will spend a decent chunk of time lined up on the outside or in the slot to cause matchup issues and to hopefully pull a safety or linebacker out of the box. Factor in the fact that we used the 4th rounder from NO as part of the deal to trade up to get Lockett, who has 2 TD's in the return game and this trade has the potential to be a rare win-win situation. Overall from a fans perspective, I am happy with potential of this trade and what it could mean to our team in the short term and in the long term.