Wilson is only good because of our Run Game and Defense?!

[Tokadub]

This thread title is SARCASTIC and not directed at any of our own posters. It's for all the RW haters/doubters.

I'm SO tired of hearing all the experts and media guys claiming that "the only reason Wilson is good is because of our strong running game and our incredible defense."

In other words these clowns are claiming that Wilson is being carried when in reality it seems to be quite the opposite in many of our games.

I just took some time gathering the stats and examples to prove that Wilson IS NOT carried by the defense and the run game. When it matters most Wilson has performed at an extremely high level and put the team on his shoulders. Here are 6 examples from just his Rookie Season:


1) 2012 Week 3 VS PACKERS Seahawks down 12-7 with 46 seconds to go, Russell Wilson completes 22 yard pass to Sidney Rice. With 8 seconds left completes 24 yard Touchdown to Golden Tate known as “Fail Mary”.

It’s not Wilson’s fault that it was a controversial or bad call, he put the Seahawks in a position to win in a seemingly hopeless situation throwing on 4th and 10 with 8 seconds to go.

I tend to agree that it looked more like an interception as far as who seemed to have a better hold on the ball. However, Tate did get his feet down first. I’m no NFL rules expert but I think we can all agree it was unfortunate to end the game in that manner regardless of the outcome since it was such a freakish play.


2) 2012 Week 6 VS Patriots Seahawks start the 4th quarter down 20-10. Patriots hit a Field Goal with 9:25 remaining in 4th quarter, Patriots now lead 23-10. Wilson hits Golden Tate for 51 yards. Then he follows that up with 2 more 10 yard passes for the Touchdown. Seahawks get the ball back with 2:38 left to go down 23-17. Wilson runs for 9 yards. Then throws a 46 yard bomb to Sidney Rice for the Touchdown with 1:27 to go and takes the lead 23-24 for the victory.

Wilson finishes the game 16/27 for 293 yards. 3 Touchdowns 0 Interceptions.


3) 2012 Week 13 VS Bears Seahawks are down 10-14 with 3:40 remaining in the 4th quarter and 97 yards to go... Wilson completes the drive with a 14 yard Touchdown pass to Golden Tate with 32 seconds remaining to give the Seahawks a 17-14 lead for the win. During this drive Wilson threw for 75 yards going 6/9. Wilson also recovered a fumble and ran for 19 yards during this final drive.

And as if that 97 yard drive wasn't enough from Wilson…The Bears got the ball with 24 seconds left and Cutler hit a 56 yard throw to Brandon Marshall who was defended by Richard Sherman. Gould hit a 46 yard field goal tying the game 17-17 with 3 seconds remaining.

In Overtime Wilson went 3/3 for 38 yards connecting with Michael Robinson, Doug Baldwin, and finally to Sidney Rice who sacrificed himself taking a monster hit without dropping the ball for the game winning Touchdown for the Seahawks who won 23-17. What made this drive even more impressive for Wilson was that he also ran 3 times for 28 yards, all 3 of his runs resulting in a first down!

Wilson finishes the game 23/37 for 293 yards. 2 Passing Touchdowns 0 Interceptions and 71 yards rushing (7.9 yards per run).


4) 2012 Week 17 VS Rams Seahawks are down 13-10 with 5:11 remaining in the 4th quarter with 80 yards to go... Wilson completes the drive running it in for the Touchdown. Wilson went 2/3 for 48 yards, and he also ran 3 times for 21 yards including the 1 yard Touchdown to win the game.

Wilson finishes the game 15/19 (79%) for 250 yards (over 13 yards per pass attempt). 1 Passing Touchdowns 0 Interceptions and 58 yards rushing.


5) 2012 Week 1 Playoffs VS Redskins Seahawks are down 13-14 with 10:53 remaining in the 4th quarter with 79 yards to go... Wilson completes the drive 2/4 for 29 yards and also threw to Zach Miller for the 2 point conversion giving the Seahawks a 21-14 lead.

Out of the 5 comeback games in Wilson’s career up to this point, this is the only game where Marshawn Lynch really carried the offense for the winning drive. Lynch ran for 50 yards on 3 carries including a Touchdown run. However Wilson still played well hitting a 22 yard throw to Zach Miller on 3rd and 10. Wilson also completed the 2 point conversion, once again to Tight End Zach Miller.

Wilson finishes the game 15/26 for 187 yards. 1 Passing Touchdowns 0 Interceptions and 67 yards rushing (8.4 yards per run).


6) 2012 Week 2 Playoffs VS Falcons Seahawks are down 0-20 at the start of the second half…

Wilson scores on 1st drive of 2nd half throwing 3/3 for 59 yards ending with a 29 yard Touchdown pass to Golden Tate. Wilson also ran twice for a total of 19 yards.

Seahawks get the ball back down 7-27 with 2:11 remaining in 3rd quarter and 80 yards to go… Wilson throws 4/4 for 69 yards. Wilson concludes the drive with a 1 yard Touchdown run, the previous play being Marshawn Lynch running for no gain…

Seahawks get the ball back down 14-27 with 11:03 remaining in 4th quarter… Wilson throws 3/3 for 57 yards including a Touchdown throw to Zach Miller.

Seahawks get the ball back down 21-27 with 3:00 remaining in 4th quarter and 61 yards to go… Wilson throws 3/4 for 50 yards. Wilson also ran for 5 yards on his one attempt and Marshawn Lynch caps off the drive with a 2 yard Touchdown run.

SEAHAWKS HAD TAKEN THE LEAD 28-27 WITH 34 SECONDS REMAINING IN THE 4th QUARTER!!! The Seahawks defense crumbled at this point allowing Matt Ryan to go 2/2 for 41 yards which set up the Falcon’s winning Field Goal giving them a 28-30 lead with 8 seconds remaining. Here is where Wilson’s only interception occurred out of these 6 very impressive games during his ROOKIE SEASON…

During Wilson’s 4 Touchdown drives in the 2nd half he threw 13/14 (92.8%) for 235 yards (16.8 yards per attempt).

Wilson finishes the game 24/36 for 385 yards. 2 Passing Touchdowns 1 Interceptions (Hail Mary with 2 seconds left to go) and 60 yards rushing (8.6 yards per run), including a Touchdown run.



THAT IS 6 EXAMPLES IN JUST WILSON’S ROOKIE SEASON THAT PROVE HE IS NOT CARRIED BY THE DEFENSE. During these 6 games Wilson threw for 11 Touchdowns and just 1 Interception!

I think these 6 games prove that Wilson is not good just because of the Seahawk’s amazing defense. Keep in mind Wilson is playing in the NFC West, hands down the best defensive division in the entire league. Having a good defense in this division does not guarantee you many wins, the Seahawks NEED Russell Wilson to play at an incredibly high level to be able to take the #1 seed and home-field advantage in the NFC.

If anything it was the defense that let the Seahawks down in 2012, all they had to do was prevent the Falcons from scoring with 34 seconds left and the Seahawks may have already won 2 Super Bowls. Don’t forget the Seahawks scored 58, 50, and 42 points in 3 of their last 4 regular season games in 2012.

So Russell Wilson had five 4th quarter comebacks (game winning drives) in his rookie Season. He should have had six if not for the defense breaking down VS the Falcons.

If you think Wilson’s rookie season was a fluke… well he had five more comeback victory game winning drives in 2013. The Seahawks almost lost home field advantage to the 49ers even though they were 13-3… if Wilson had just one less comeback victory the Seahawks may have not won the Superbowl.

I hope that is convincing enough with all the necessary supporting stats and specific examples of why it is misleading to say Wilson is only good because of his defense. Because in truth the Seahawks would be nothing without Wilson no matter how good their defense may be.


Sources:

http://www.nfl.com/teams/seattleseahawks/schedule?team=SEA&season=2012&seasonType=REG
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/play-index/comeback.cgi?player=WilsRu00

 

[Tokadub]

Reserved for Wilson's 2nd season if I ever get around to it, quite time consuming to dig up the stats/examples.

And if you're wondering why I'm posting this here... I'm just so tired of the haters/doubters claiming Wilson is only good because of the team he's on.

I posted this originally on the Packers forum where I'm trying to show them the glorious truth that is Russell Wilson in their thread titled: "Will the Packers win in Seattle? You bet they will!"

I admitted to them I have Aaron Rodgers ranked #1 QB... so I'm not just trolling them or anything... It's just amazing how many people dismiss Russell Wilson, even the "professional analysts"... what a bunch of clowns.

 

[MizzouHawkGal]

You're doing the Lord's work Tokadub.

 

[Sealake80]

I'm so busy being happy we got Wilson I don't have time for the haters! Tokadub did prove them all wrong though! Thanks tokadub. The lords work... Lol.

 

[mikeak]

I was comfortable letting Tate go then I started worrying about all the punt returns. Now this post which besides reminding me how great RW is (I knew since his first season in college) keeps bringing up Tate. Suddenly I am worried again....

Thanks

 

[MizzouHawkGal]

I was comfortable letting Tate go then I started worrying about all the punt returns. Now this post which besides reminding me how great RW is (I knew since his first season in college) keeps bringing up Tate. Suddenly I am worried again....

Thanks

Two words.... Bill Harvin. Relax and smoke a bowl for me given it's legal in Washington and there are like 3 cops in Alaska.

 

[themunn]

Now now, we have to give the defense some credit in those games - holding the Packers to 12 points (only by virtue of a bogus penalty on Kam!) put Wilson in the position to win that game with 8 seconds left, having forced a fumble and a three and out to get us the ball back with 46 seconds to go, when a 1st down would have ended the game
And let's not forget the defense forcing a third and out with 2 minutes 38 to go against the Patriots, when we had just one TO remaining, had the patriots completed that third down pass we would have been forced to use our 3rd timeout, the Patriots would have taken us to the 2 minute warning, and with 2 more plays ran the clock down to 30 seconds remaining at most. Even after we scored the TD they had 1.30 remaining to drive the field and score - something Brady has done time and time again, but the D stepped up and forced a turnover on downs to win us the game.
Again, although we remember the defense failing at the final hurdle against the Falcons, Wilson would have been nowhere near the comeback had they not forced 3 successive 3 and outs in the 4th quarter to get Wilson the ball back.

Not to discredit Wilson in any way of course - he is an amazing player to have managed those comebacks, but he has certainly had his fair share of help from both the running game and defense (albeit they are not responsible for his success)

 

[Maulbert]

3) 2012 Week 13 VS Bears Seahawks are down 10-14 with 3:40 remaining in the 4th quarter and 97 yards to go... Wilson completes the drive with a 14 yard Touchdown pass to Golden Tate with 32 seconds remaining to give the Seahawks a 17-14 lead for the win. During this drive Wilson threw for 75 yards going 6/9. Wilson also recovered a fumble and ran for 19 yards during this final drive.

Wilson finishes the game 23/37 for 293 yards. 2 Passing Touchdowns 0 Interceptions and 71 yards rushing (7.9 yards per run).

I know this might seem anal retentive, but that drive was not the game winning drive. The defense immediately gave up a 56 yard completion from Cutler to Marshall, allowing the Bears to kick a game tying field goal. Seattle got the ball first in overtime and Wilson drove the Hawks 80 yards for the win, capped off by a 13 yard TD pass to Sidney Rice (Who got the s**t knocked out of him by Bears safety Major Wright on a CLEARLY illegal hit that wasn't flagged). Wilson was 3/3 for 38 yards and 1 TD (including a key 3rd down completion to Doug Baldwin) while also rushing 3 times for 28 yards on that drive. Final score: Seattle 23, Chicago 17.

That was the day I decided to never question John Schneider again.

 

[HawKnPeppa]

This thread title is SARCASTIC and not directed at any of our own posters. It's for all the RW haters/doubters.

Sources:

http://www.nfl.com/teams/seattleseahawks/schedule?team=SEA&season=2012&seasonType=REG
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/play-index/comeback.cgi?player=WilsRu00

Yes, they are just a bunch homers with ostrich blood coursing through their veins. That said, we are the fans of the Super Bowl Champs, so who cares what the fools say?! Why don't we let the players do the talking on the field. The evidences will continue to mount against them. Two outstanding seasons from RW will become three after this season, and I don't see an end to that anytime soon. Very soon, only the truly ignorant will sincerely believe the kid is anything less than a great leader and QB. He has every desirable ability and trait, with the exception of a an inch or two, but RW plays like he's 7' tall, so who cares, let other fans spout their wishful thinking until the well runs dry.

I suppose it's kinda hard to shake the inferiority complex we've had as a fan base for decades...possibly another Lombardy will help that?? :vodka:

One more thing to add. I doubt any QB in the history of the game could have faced the D's RW faced last season, with practically NO offensive line, and still manage to CONSITENTLY win games to the tune of a 13-3 season. I challenge anyone to come up with a name. That knocked my socks off. Before last season, I wouldn't have believed anyone, including Wilson, could have pulled that off.

 

[Pandion Haliaetus]

Tokadub... to add to a quality post.

Seahawks had defensive let downs vs @ Arizona, @ Detriot, and @ Miami where the D squandered away comeback opportunities by the Offense after they obtained the lead or were leading heading into the 4th QTR.

@Arizona in particular it was the offense that failed to win the game at the end, but it was the Defense that allowed John Skelton to drive for a TD in relief after they dominated Kevin Kolb in what was a hard fought battle in Russell's first game that also saw the Seahawks start then rookie DT convert JR Sweezy against Darnell Dockett.

 

[MarylandHawk]

Please don't forget about the SF @Candlestick game last year when Wilson threw what should have been the winning TD to Luke Willson, then the defense decided to make Frank Gore look like Walter Payton.

 

[-The Glove-]

Please don't forget about the SF @Candlestick game last year when Wilson threw what should have been the winning TD to Luke Willson, then the defense decided to make Frank Gore look like Walter Payton.

His first game too...the Az game...got em to the red zone where everyone forgot how to catch

 

[253hawk]

I don't think Sherman decided to get held on Gore's run.

 

[Lords of Scythia]

Great thread! Anyone who still doubts Wilson is on serious crack at this point. Just look at his preseason numbers. Three tds, three rushing tds, no picks. He's a cyborg at this point. The 0-line is healthy and gelling and strong--look for Russ to stay in the pocket more and assasinate the enemy from behind a wall. Our d is probably slipping with our d-line loss of starters and depht. Wilson will be asked to do more just because the d is slacking.

 

[Seahwkgal]

Great thread! Anyone who still doubts Wilson is on serious crack at this point. Just look at his preseason numbers. Three tds, three rushing tds, no picks. He's a cyborg at this point. The 0-line is healthy and gelling and strong--look for Russ to stay in the pocket more and assasinate the enemy from behind a wall. Our d is probably slipping with our d-line loss of starters and depht. Wilson will be asked to do more just because the d is slacking.

BINGO!!! I predict that Thursday will be Wilson's coming out party to the stat freaks. I called it after watching the piss-poor defensive performance of our last preseason game. Russ can AND WILL win games for us, including Thursday night.

 

[Tokadub]

Now now, we have to give the defense some credit in those games - holding the Packers to 12 points (only by virtue of a bogus penalty on Kam!) put Wilson in the position to win that game with 8 seconds left, having forced a fumble and a three and out to get us the ball back with 46 seconds to go, when a 1st down would have ended the game
And let's not forget the defense forcing a third and out with 2 minutes 38 to go against the Patriots, when we had just one TO remaining, had the patriots completed that third down pass we would have been forced to use our 3rd timeout, the Patriots would have taken us to the 2 minute warning, and with 2 more plays ran the clock down to 30 seconds remaining at most. Even after we scored the TD they had 1.30 remaining to drive the field and score - something Brady has done time and time again, but the D stepped up and forced a turnover on downs to win us the game.
Again, although we remember the defense failing at the final hurdle against the Falcons, Wilson would have been nowhere near the comeback had they not forced 3 successive 3 and outs in the 4th quarter to get Wilson the ball back.

Not to discredit Wilson in any way of course - he is an amazing player to have managed those comebacks, but he has certainly had his fair share of help from both the running game and defense (albeit they are not responsible for his success)

Yes those are all good points. I didn't mean to discredit the defense for our victories, I love our defense.

My whole point was that the media seems to claim that Wilson is just a "game manager" in a negative sense like he's some second coming of Trent Dilfer just slightly better. But really Wilson has proven so many times that he can put the team on his shoulders. The majority of our comeback victories seem to be Wilson carrying the team for whatever reason Lynch typically does not dominate in these situations at least in 2012 he didn't.

Our defense wins us a ton of games too, and our running game can be dominating. The Seahawks as a whole have tons of help from the Run Game and Defense, but Wilson has proven he is an amazing player independently from those 2 team aspects. Wilson seems to be at his best when we need him to be.

It sounds like you understand that already though so good input.

 

[Tokadub]

3) 2012 Week 13 VS Bears Seahawks are down 10-14 with 3:40 remaining in the 4th quarter and 97 yards to go... Wilson completes the drive with a 14 yard Touchdown pass to Golden Tate with 32 seconds remaining to give the Seahawks a 17-14 lead for the win. During this drive Wilson threw for 75 yards going 6/9. Wilson also recovered a fumble and ran for 19 yards during this final drive.

Wilson finishes the game 23/37 for 293 yards. 2 Passing Touchdowns 0 Interceptions and 71 yards rushing (7.9 yards per run).

I know this might seem anal retentive, but that drive was not the game winning drive. The defense immediately gave up a 56 yard completion from Cutler to Marshall, allowing the Bears to kick a game tying field goal. Seattle got the ball first in overtime and Wilson drove the Hawks 80 yards for the win, capped off by a 13 yard TD pass to Sidney Rice (Who got the s**t knocked out of him by Bears safety Major Wright on a CLEARLY illegal hit that wasn't flagged). Wilson was 3/3 for 38 yards and 1 TD (including a key 3rd down completion to Doug Baldwin) while also rushing 3 times for 28 yards on that drive. Final score: Seattle 23, Chicago 17.

That was the day I decided to never question John Schneider again.

That's not anal retentive at all! I was trying to bust out the post so fast just focusing on the 4th quarter play by play stuff I totally forgot to include the Bears overtime stuff. I'm gonna have to try to edit that in later tonight, because I do remember that drive and how well Wilson played and how Sidney Rice made a great catch and sacrificed himself taking one of the biggest hits I've seen.

EDIT: K I added the overtime stuff for the Bears game. Managed to type it up during the Commercials of the new "America's Game" that just premiered for the Seahawks Superbowl which was fantastic to see

 

[NFSeahawks]

Ignorant people that I meet for the first time and know nothing about the Seahawks say this kind of stuff.

 

[Tokadub]

So one of the Green Bay Packer's forum posters responded pretty negatively about Wilson's 4th quarter heroics. Maybe he's just mad because Wilson already has more 4th quarter comebacks than Aaron Rodgers?

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/comebacks_career.htm

I think he missed the point of my post entirely. I wasn't saying Wilson's 4th quarter comebacks were the "measure of his success", I was simply using it as an example proving that Wilson can carry the team and he doesn't rely entirely on the Run Game and Defense like most people seem to think.


Who knows but this is what he said:

"First of all using fourth quarter comebacks is a terrible way to measure a QB's success (every statistic that has John Skelton on a level with Rodgers is).

In those 10 games the Seahawks defense allowed an average of 16 points, keeping them in the game as the offense wasn't able to put up any points during the first three quarters.

In addirmtion you forgot to mention that Wilson throws more interceptions in the fourth quarter when the game is within a score than during any other period during the game, posting only a 81.8 passer rating in that situation."


And my response:

The reason why Wilson has more interceptions in the 4th quarter is simple, he is forced to throw Hail Mary's or his team will lose. Isn't that where you ideally want your QB to throw interceptions if you are being realistic to the situation? QB's should obviously throw at least slightly more interceptions when they are running out of time in the 4th quarter right? They have no choice but to force the throw to try to pull their team out of a situation where they have little to no chance to win statistically.

Throwing more interceptions in the 4th quarter is not a flaw in Russell Wilson's game, like I've posted before Wilson has an incredible Touchdown/Interception Ratio behind only Aaron Rodgers. So it's kind of a weak area to try to criticize him in my opinion.

Wilson threw 11 Touchdowns and 1 Interception (Hail Mary with 2 seconds remaining) in the 6 game examples I posted. I'd be surprised if there are very many QB's who don't throw more interceptions in the 4th quarter but you can list them if you know. According to this article 4th quarter interceptions are more prevalent than any other quarters:

http://www.footballperspective.com/analyzing-interceptions-2000-to-2012/

"We can also break interceptions down by quarter. Here’s how to read the next table: Teams have thrown 32.8% of all interceptions in the 4th quarter despite “only” 27.6% of all passes coming in that quarter. That’s because passers have a 3.6% interception rate in the fourth quarter."

5 out of Wilson's 19 Interceptions in his 2 year career have come in situations where he was forced throw because his team was in EXTREMELY BAD SITUATIONS. I am posting all 5 scenarios at the end of this post...


But from all measures of a QB's success Russell Wilson has been the best Quarterback in NFL history in his first 2 seasons.

Wilson has the most wins. He's the only QB to put up over 100 Passer Ratings in his first two seasons.

Wilson also tied Peyton Manning for the 2nd most Touchdowns thrown in NFL history in their first 2 seasons (52), but he did it with only 19 interceptions compared to Manning's 43. The only QB with more Touchdowns in his first 2 seasons is Dan Marino (68). Marino threw 48 Touchdowns in his 2nd season with a 108.9 Passer Rating, which appears to be the best season of his hall of fame career.

It just seems like some people will never give Wilson any credit no matter how good he's been...

I have Aaron Rodgers ranked as my #1 QB but he didn't even start playing as a starter until his 4th season! In Aaron's first 2 seasons as a starter he had 58 Touchdowns and 20 Interceptions (2.9 TD/INT rate), which is pretty similar to Wilson's 52 Touchdowns and 19 Interceptions (2.73 TD/INT rate). However, Rodgers failed to have a 100+ Passer Rating in both of those seasons but still posted a very good 93.8 in 2008.

Including the playoffs as a starter Rodgers went 6-10 his first season and 11-6 his second a total of 17 wins, and no playoff wins.

Including the playoffs Wilson went 12-6 his first season and 16-3 his second a total of 28 wins, and 4 playoff wins.

And I'm not using 4th quarter comebacks to prove a QB's success. I'm simply trying to respond to the post saying Wilson relies on the Run Game and the Defense, that narrative is too common among the NFL media guys and it's simply false. In other words many media guys seem to be under the impression that Wilson is kinda carried by his team, that's he's like a slightly better version of Trent Dilfer or something crazy like that...

4th quarter comebacks are a good way to show that Wilson is capable of putting the team on his back for the win. In 5 out of the 6 game winning drive examples I posted from Wilson's Rookie Season Marshawn Lynch only had a significant role in one of them. Wilson carried the team in 5 out of 6 of those drives not Marshawn Lynch, so you can't really say he's only good because of the run game.

Wilson is an incredible QB with or without the Run Game and Defense, and with or without arguably the worst pass blocking in the league. He has proven it numerous times in specific games and also with his overall stats for his career.


Finally... here's 5 of the interceptions Wilson has thrown in the 4th quarter. In all cases Wilson was in a very bad situation where the Seahawks were very unlikely to win. I'd rather have an interception when the QB has no choice but to hurl the ball than a QB like Andrew Luck who throws tons of interceptions needlessly.


2012:

Week 4 VS Rams Seahawks behind 13-19 Wilson throws interception with 1:08 remaining and 35 yards to go and no time outs.

Playoffs Week 2 VS Falcons Seahawks behind 28-30 Wilson throws interception with 2 seconds remaining and 48 yards to go.


2013:

Week 5 VS Colts Seahawks behind 28-34 Wilson throws interception on 4th and 15 with 1:31 remaining.

Week 14 VS 49ers Seahawks behind 17-19 Wilson throws interception with 21 seconds remaining and 84 yards to go.

Week 16 VS Cardinals Seahawks behind 17-10 Wilson throws interception with 2:06 remaining and 74 yards to go. This interception was actually bogus because the ball hit the ground first but the refs couldn’t tell and they said that it bounced off of Baldwin’s forearm not the ground. By the laws of physics Doug Baldwins arms would have to be made of rubber or cement for the ball to bounce like that without hitting the ground…


So there's 5 of Wilson's 20 career Interceptions (including playoffs), all of which you can't really fault Wilson because he was put in a nearly impossible situation and was FORCED TO THROW NO MATTER WHAT. That means Wilson has only 15 other interceptions in his entire career from a total of 37 games... I'm sorry but I just don't see your criticism of Wilson's 4th quarter interceptions being a legitimate flaw to his game.