With so many holes on their roster, they’d be dumb to do this trade, but we already know that after getting fleeced by Poles!
The 2024 Great Draft Debate
- Thread starter Chawker
- Start date
bileever
Well-known member
- Joined
- Sep 16, 2022
- Messages
- 1,357
- Reaction score
- 1,876
Totally agree about what you said about Fletcher Cox and Bruce Irvin. It really depends on how good your scouting is, and how accurate your evaluation of the available players are. It's true that moving from 16 to 23 doesn't buy you a second, but moving down from 16 to 26 or lower would.
Posting the JJ trade value scale for those of you who are unfamiliar with it. You can also see it here at this link: https://walterfootball.com/draftchart.php
CactusJack
Well-known member
Clearly, they think Howell is as good, if not better than those guys that you mentioned. At least John does. He compared him to those guys specifically when he was asked about Howell.
chris98251
Well-known member
The other thing about Howell, is you have seen any flaws in his game under NFL stress, seeing them and asking your staff can we work him through them is a Bonus. Before last year he was high percentage with a good interception touchdown ratio, last year he was put in a bad situation and pressed to make things happen, never good for a young QB to do. Adjusting his windows and recognition is what he needs to do, learning when to pull back and not force something into a bad situation is another.
WarHawks
Well-known member
- Joined
- Sep 16, 2012
- Messages
- 1,901
- Reaction score
- 1,459
He would still be a 5th round pick again most likely. Slow, small hands, etc. He's a backup. We still need to take a chance on a qbotf. There will never be a "good" time. There will always be other needs. Always. I'm tired of talking about it. Nothing ever changes. Three years from now we will probably still be having this discussion.
Nobody is perfect in projecting college QBs entering the NFL. Howell may be better than some of the top-5 but highly doubtful he’s better than all of them. The Commanders had him for a year and brought in Mariota to replace him as the backup to whichever one of these college QBs they are drafting. Think about that before you bet all your chips on Howell.
GemCity
Well-known member
- Joined
- Mar 20, 2022
- Messages
- 2,641
- Reaction score
- 3,050
I don’t necessarily believe people think these things Bear…it’s just what’s materialized and is evident of the way this organization has moved.
When you see specific moves happening, such as trading picks for Howell, it indicates that JS and MM are comfortable going that direction.
I’d love to see a QB picked from this class as I think a few of them may be special. Better than Howell? The FO doesn’t think so.
At least, this is how things ‘feel’.
If Nix, Penix or Daniels went in the draft 2 years ago instead of transferring, they all would have been 5th round or lower picks. And Howell is younger than all 3. If he went to the portal instead of the NFL, and threw for 4000 yds, he would be a 1-2 round pick this year. Fwiw he’s also the same size as Williams
chris98251
Well-known member
They brought in Mariota to mentor someone and not have a controversy, new owner and coach and QB. If you look at his draft profile and what happened he was projected to in some Mocks to be the 1st pick before his Junior year, scouts attest to losing many players and the Offensive line looking like swiss cheese, he was still respectable but not able to put up the Gaddy Numbers from before, yes he has a few flaws to be worked on, he is super competitive, a good leader, tough and smart, decision making needs to speed up but he has a quick release, they stated his footwork was some of the best they seen at one point, so he has the tools. Unlearning some bad habits and learning some better decision making and he could be the QBOTF.
bileever
Well-known member
- Joined
- Sep 16, 2022
- Messages
- 1,357
- Reaction score
- 1,876
My conclusion after watching football for my whole life: no one knows anything about college QBs and how they will translate in the NFL. Everyone passed on Lamar Jackson in 2018 before the Ravens picked him with pick #32. Of course, not as bad as everyone passing on Brock Purdy 7 times before the 49ers picked him. Aaron Rodgers went #24. Then everyone said Justin Fields was the second coming of Lamar Jackson in 2021. (And some still think he might be.) And the list of first round QB picks in the last ten years that went bust is too long to enumerate here. If you guess right on one of these QB prospects, you are just lucky because nobody knows anything. (Except maybe Andy Reid.)
I think they are on the Howell train. We will know next month.
i know that’s the narrative. I guess we’re going to see how it goes. I think Howell’s ceiling is “good quality backup.” IMO Seahawks should trade up and draft a QB. But I agree it won’t happen.
CactusJack
Well-known member
I didn't give an opinion on him, one way or another. But this move, signals as much. If they didn't believe in him, then they wouldn't have brought him in.
OP
OP
Chawker
Well-known member
QBs,QBs,QBs You guys are having a very good conversation here. But lets assume that all the worthy QBs are long gone at pick 16.
Maybe though deduction we can figure out who we may select.
1. Laiatu Latu : If we ask ourselves who are we trying to replace ? Nwosu or Mafe ?
Along with his neck injury, I think we could cross him off our list.
2. Newton or Murphy : Both good DT, but they just don't fit with what we need.
3. OL John said, guards are over rated, assuming OL is out in round 1. Besides defense is where we need the most improvement.
Our focus has narrowed sum. But lets continue this thought process and decuss this some more.
Maybe though deduction we can figure out who we may select.
1. Laiatu Latu : If we ask ourselves who are we trying to replace ? Nwosu or Mafe ?
Along with his neck injury, I think we could cross him off our list.
2. Newton or Murphy : Both good DT, but they just don't fit with what we need.
3. OL John said, guards are over rated, assuming OL is out in round 1. Besides defense is where we need the most improvement.
Our focus has narrowed sum. But lets continue this thought process and decuss this some more.
Maelstrom787
Well-known member
Yeeeeah I think I'd take the deal there. Not even gonna look at the charts on it personally, feels like a little too much from Carolina's end but I'd take it regardless.
I'd also have my eyes on the Chiefs if a receiver is there at 16 and JS broadcasts that we're open for business. Brian Thomas might have their attention and therefore we may get some nice compensation in return from them.
CactusJack
Well-known member
Amarius Mims
Taliese Fuaga
Troy Fautanu
Graham Barton
All four of those names could be BPA & fill a huge need.
Fuaga & Fautana can play both Tackle & Guard. Barton is likely a Guard. But there's talk he could be a Center as well.
Picking Mims is all about upside. Grabbing a guy who could be a stud Pro bowl/All-Pro type of talent at Tackle. Might be too good to pass up. If he's still available at 16, he's the guy I'm taking. No trade back.
They also might value Byron Murphy more than the other names & decide to go in that direction. But I think you can't go wrong with taking an offensive lineman this year. That's how good of a group it is.
Last edited:
Maelstrom787
Well-known member
If we're going IOL, Graham Barton after a trade-down is the pick to me.
You've got true versatility there. His arms put him below the threshold most teams set for OT, but his play at OT proves he can do it in a pinch - and even do it well. He is a guy who you could project to any of the 5 spots along the line. His agility and explosion is elite, his height/length are great for center, decent for guard, and borderline for tackle but his aforementioned explosiveness makes up for that. Scheme versatile. I mean, just a baller. I suspect most teams will rate him over JPJ.
Sub-5 40 dash. ~4.5 shuttle. ~7.3 3-cone. 24 reps. Just a god damn well-rounded lineman.
You've got true versatility there. His arms put him below the threshold most teams set for OT, but his play at OT proves he can do it in a pinch - and even do it well. He is a guy who you could project to any of the 5 spots along the line. His agility and explosion is elite, his height/length are great for center, decent for guard, and borderline for tackle but his aforementioned explosiveness makes up for that. Scheme versatile. I mean, just a baller. I suspect most teams will rate him over JPJ.
Sub-5 40 dash. ~4.5 shuttle. ~7.3 3-cone. 24 reps. Just a god damn well-rounded lineman.
Of course a Bear fan would like Nix? He is maybe the 6th best prospect this year. JJ's intangibles crush what old man Nix has to offer.
I’d be happy with either of them in a trade up with Bears. I would not be surprised if Nix goes to the Broncos at #12.
Been reading a lot of comments about the value of two basic strategies here...basically moving up in the draft for a "prime" player or moving back in the draft for more picks. My personal opinion/experience shows me that more teams are hurt by trading away draft capital to move up out of FOMO chasing that one possible superstar, especially when the team in question is rather obviously more than one player away from being good/great.
I blame fantasy football, where one player on your team can generate tons of fantasy points. In real life football, though, teams with one superstar that generate most of their points and offense are too often shut down rather easily by a team that can offset that player's skills through artful scheming and having a number of seemingly mid-term players that are disciplined and well coached.
YMMV, obviously.
I blame fantasy football, where one player on your team can generate tons of fantasy points. In real life football, though, teams with one superstar that generate most of their points and offense are too often shut down rather easily by a team that can offset that player's skills through artful scheming and having a number of seemingly mid-term players that are disciplined and well coached.
YMMV, obviously.
You are correct about the odds, but none of that matters if you hit your target in the QB lottery. I think KC traded two firsts and a third for Mahomes. I’m sure they have no regrets. But it fails more often than not. In the case of the Seahawks, we can move up to improve the odds, or draft a QB in the 4th round and play the really long odds.
