Rees Odhiambo

[CodeWarrior]

Jville, I have no agenda. I discuss football topics on a football board. Is that now frowned upon? I don't make baseless assertions. I backup my opinions with facts and data. What is it I do that you take issue with?

Nothing personal ....... and I am certainly not directing my response specifically at you.

Because, my remarks are a reaction to all posts that repeatedly hijack thread topics to regurgitate the same arguments against the same targets with no respect to thread subjects.

The habitual practice of calling out the same targeted victims in thread after thread is an agenda. IMO such a habitual practice is both disrespectful and arrogant.

There already exists a surplus of preexisting threads dedicated to trashing and demonizing Carroll, Bevell and Cable among others. So ..... why spoil original topics and subjects? Why pee all over every thread in the joint?

What I would like is more consideration and respect for other topics and posts.

I brought it up in this thread because Odhiambo is yet another college tackle that Seattle projects as a guard. Thought it was related.

 

[theENGLISHseahawk]

To say it isn't possible is just as silly. This offense regresses year after year, and it has everything to do with the nickel and dime-ing on the offensive line. You did make a good point about there not being a lot of talent in the draft, but the main problem is we aren't even keeping the little talent he have had on the o-line. Year after year we seem to replace marginal talent with worse talent along the line. This year is the first time we actually seem to have improved any area a long the line, but with how bad the offensive line is overall it kind of overshadows all that. Our offense has become what everyone feared it would become when Lynch is gone.

This area seems to be a major weak spot for Pete's coaching and talent evaluation style. Coaches get fired all the time for their weak spots, even coaches that have had perennial contenders and have won a Super Bowl. We all know that this team would likely be close to unstoppable if it even had an average offensive line, and if that becomes a problem year after year eventually not just the fans that will get tired of it, but the people who sign his paychecks. Not saying it will happen, but if there is any area that will cause it, this is it.

It really isn't just as silly.

Pete is going absolutely nowhere.

To even consider it as a possibility is laughable with the team currently 4-2-1 despite being ridiculously banged up, well ahead in the NFC West, in the running for the #1 or #2 seed and in the midst of a legendary run, a true golden age of Seahawks football.

To even be talking about this is a horrible review of where we've got to now in the post-Super Bowl era as a fan base.

 

[pcbball12]

Well you gotta love English's argument. So many times on this board I see defense of Bevell that "if you don't like Bevell you must not like Pete" or that "if you think Bevell should be fired then you think Pete should be fired too." So somebody actually phrases it that the inability to get the offense going could be Pete's downfall and it is called rubbish. Sigh.

The only thing you should be sighing about is anyone questioning Pete's job.

For starters, nobody has said the two sentences you've put in quotes. One argument I've had on here is that if you're going to constantly call for Bevell to go, you essentially don't trust Pete's judgement. Or you think he's deliberately hurting the team in favour of 'being a good buddy' (which is preposterous given he's already fired one OC and made several tough calls during his Seattle tenure).

If you don't trust Pete's judgement to the point you're going to suggest he might lose his job in the next two years, then I'll stand by what I said before. The person making that argument needs to get a grip. They're 4-2-1, a perennial contender and just endured a tough period with several key injuries including Russell Wilson. To start saying things like, 'Oh the offense could lead to Pete's downfall'. Stop. Just stop.

I am with you English. The perpetual doom and gloom on this board after a loss is ridiculous. It is as if we were 2-5 or have been a bottom dweller of the league the last 5 years. People even having a thought that Pete should be fired or has a downfall after this 4-2-1 "rough patch" need to pull it together. Either you have become extremely spoiled after watching this team the last 5 years (that Pete built), or you are a new fan that doesn't know what a struggling franchise or team actually looks like.

 

[Jville]

Jville, I have no agenda. I discuss football topics on a football board. Is that now frowned upon? I don't make baseless assertions. I backup my opinions with facts and data. What is it I do that you take issue with?

Nothing personal ....... and I am certainly not directing my response specifically at you.

Because, my remarks are a reaction to all posts that repeatedly hijack thread topics to regurgitate the same arguments against the same targets with no respect to thread subjects.

The habitual practice of calling out the same targeted victims in thread after thread is an agenda. IMO such a habitual practice is both disrespectful and arrogant.

There already exists a surplus of preexisting threads dedicated to trashing and demonizing Carroll, Bevell and Cable among others. So ..... why spoil original topics and subjects? Why pee all over every thread in the joint?

What I would like is more consideration and respect for other topics and posts.

I brought it up in this thread because Odhiambo is yet another college tackle that Seattle projects as a guard. Thought it was related.

Objections to conversion projects could be viewed as more of a pet peeve than an agenda. More acceptable because such assertions are method targeted rather than person targeted.

Unfortunately, fans looking for instant results may be even more upset with next years collegian OL draft class. It is my understanding that the quality and readiness of that position group from college resources continues to slip. For the NFL, these times have spawned and dictated a developmental era. Options have little to do with method preferences and everything to do with necessity ...... i.e. a lot fewer 1st year starters than in years past. The Seahawks continuing patterns of player sourcing and player development are again in full view for 2016.

With regards to Rees Odhiabo, he was never presented to fans as a year one starter. My own assumption is that he was drafted as a 2 to 3 year development candidate with perceived utility as a versatile backup.

With regards to methods of finding linemen, the Seahawks are using multiple avenues/approaches as they should in a time of shortages. In these times, the more methods and avenues of approach, the better.

Clearly, it is up to fans to make adjustments to the trends of this NFL era. :177692: No crutch or blame game rhetoric can help.

Ignore the noise Rees Odhiambo and keep on grinding!

Go Hawks!

 

[CodeWarrior]

Objections to conversion projects could be viewed as more of a pet peeve than an agenda. More acceptable because such assertions are method targeted rather than person targeted.

Unfortunately, fans looking for instant results may be even more upset with next years collegian OL draft class. It is my understanding that the quality and readiness of that position group from college resources continues to slip. For the NFL, these times have spawned and dictated a developmental era. Options have little to do with method preferences and everything to do with necessity ...... i.e. a lot fewer 1st year starters than in years past. The Seahawks continuing patterns of player sourcing and player development are again in full view for 2016.

With regards to Rees Odhiabo, he was never presented to fans as a year one starter. My own assumption is that he was drafted as a 2 to 3 year development candidate with perceived utility as a versatile backup.

With regards to methods of finding linemen, the Seahawks are using multiple avenues/approaches as they should in a time of shortages. In these times, the more methods and avenues of approach, the better.

Clearly, it is up to fans to make adjustments to the trends of this NFL era. :177692: No crutch or blame game rhetoric can help.

Ignore the noise Rees Odhiambo and keep on grinding!

Go Hawks!

You just stated my exact point: an integral component of the development strategy is to retain the talent you develop. Otherwise what is the point? Develop talent that leaves for other teams? I'm not looking for instant results. I'm looking for a sustainable approach and to my eyes Seattle just doesn't have one.

As for Rees Odhiambo in your scenario, a two to three year development candidate, Seattle would get one to two years tops of Odhiambo at an acceptable level of performance before he leaves in FA. His contract is up in 2019. As soon as he develops he leaves. How is that a formula for success?

This doesn't even begin to address the lack of personnel at the tackle position. The developmental tackle slot is so thin Seattle is starting a player that up until last week had not started on the offensive line since junior high. On a team of this caliber I find that unacceptable.

I'm curious: are you in favor of Seattle's current OL approach? You think it is in best service of the team?

 

[Jville]

Objections to conversion projects could be viewed as more of a pet peeve than an agenda. More acceptable because such assertions are method targeted rather than person targeted.

Unfortunately, fans looking for instant results may be even more upset with next years collegian OL draft class. It is my understanding that the quality and readiness of that position group from college resources continues to slip. For the NFL, these times have spawned and dictated a developmental era. Options have little to do with method preferences and everything to do with necessity ...... i.e. a lot fewer 1st year starters than in years past. The Seahawks continuing patterns of player sourcing and player development are again in full view for 2016.

With regards to Rees Odhiabo, he was never presented to fans as a year one starter. My own assumption is that he was drafted as a 2 to 3 year development candidate with perceived utility as a versatile backup.

With regards to methods of finding linemen, the Seahawks are using multiple avenues/approaches as they should in a time of shortages. In these times, the more methods and avenues of approach, the better.

Clearly, it is up to fans to make adjustments to the trends of this NFL era. :177692: No crutch or blame game rhetoric can help.

Ignore the noise Rees Odhiambo and keep on grinding!

Go Hawks!

You just stated my exact point: an integral component of the development strategy is to retain the talent you develop. Otherwise what is the point? Develop talent that leaves for other teams? I'm not looking for instant results. I'm looking for a sustainable approach and to my eyes Seattle just doesn't have one.

As for Rees Odhiambo in your scenario, a two to three year development candidate, Seattle would get one to two years tops of Odhiambo at an acceptable level of performance before he leaves in FA. His contract is up in 2019. As soon as he develops he leaves. How is that a formula for success?

This doesn't even begin to address the lack of personnel at the tackle position. The developmental tackle slot is so thin Seattle is starting a player that up until last week had not started on the offensive line since junior high. On a team of this caliber I find that unacceptable.

I'm curious: are you in favor of Seattle's current OL approach? You think it is in best service of the team?

Carroll and Cable have both acknowledged, as of last year, that they are starting over with the offensive line. This at a time when coaches thru out the league have acknowledged a severe shortage of competent linemen. So .... having 4 rookie members on a 9 man roster shouldn't be a complete surprise to anyone who has been listening to league coaches. Adding a couple of veteran free agents in the face of increased attrition was predictable and necessary. Having only 3 incumbent linemen returning from the previous year has been the huge challenge. But it is a challenge they will conquer and build from. They intend to have these selected young linemen grow and develop together. And they will add to this evolving roster. I have no doubt we will soon see a second contract for a youngster already on the roster. Retention of leadership is the making.

With the sole exception of bidding wars, they use all the avenues of building an offensive line. Fact is, I'm enjoying the trials and challenges and growth of these youngsters. This week, I am especially looking forward to seeing George Fant in his second start. Odhiambo will presumably be the backup. Exciting times for both those young developing linemen.

These are the best of times to be a Seahawk fan.

 

[hawkfan68]

Rees is young and hopefully he will grow into a good player. The area that disappoints me with FO strategy is they bring in guys like Sowell and Webb. They aren't worth even bringing in. They bet on Gilliam and lost. They need to re-evaluate how they look at FA OL guys. Tyler Polumbus is available...while he is average at best, average is better than Gilliam, Sowell, or Webb at this point.

The FO has shown they lack good judgment in evaluating OL talent. For whatever reason, they have missed more in this area than any other. It's not just money, they've missed on draft picks as well. Britt is doing better but it took him 3 different positions ( he was drafted to be a tackle) to find a spot.

 

[HawkGA]

Well you gotta love English's argument. So many times on this board I see defense of Bevell that "if you don't like Bevell you must not like Pete" or that "if you think Bevell should be fired then you think Pete should be fired too." So somebody actually phrases it that the inability to get the offense going could be Pete's downfall and it is called rubbish. Sigh.

The only thing you should be sighing about is anyone questioning Pete's job.

For starters, nobody has said the two sentences you've put in quotes. One argument I've had on here is that if you're going to constantly call for Bevell to go, you essentially don't trust Pete's judgement. Or you think he's deliberately hurting the team in favour of 'being a good buddy' (which is preposterous given he's already fired one OC and made several tough calls during his Seattle tenure).

If you don't trust Pete's judgement to the point you're going to suggest he might lose his job in the next two years, then I'll stand by what I said before. The person making that argument needs to get a grip. They're 4-2-1, a perennial contender and just endured a tough period with several key injuries including Russell Wilson. To start saying things like, 'Oh the offense could lead to Pete's downfall'. Stop. Just stop.

So "nobody" said the sentence I wrote but then you go on to make the same argument that the sentences I quote convey. Whatever floats your boat dude.

You know, you can love your wife and still think she looks fat in a pair of jeans. It's okay to love Pete and still wonder what the heck is going on with the offense.

If you want to pledge unquestioning fealty to a coach, go cheer for Saban (full disclosure: I'm an Alabama fan) as he seems to insist on it.

The rest of us choose not to kneel before a crown. YMMV.

 

[Jville]

Rees is young and hopefully he will grow into a good player. The area that disappoints me with FO strategy is they bring in guys like Sowell and Webb. They aren't worth even bringing in. They bet on Gilliam and lost. They need to re-evaluate how they look at FA OL guys. Tyler Polumbus is available...while he is average at best, average is better than Gilliam, Sowell, or Webb at this point.

The FO has shown they lack good judgment in evaluating OL talent. For whatever reason, they have missed more in this area than any other. It's not just money, they've missed on draft picks as well. Britt is doing better but it took him 3 different positions ( he was drafted to be a tackle) to find a spot.

With all due respect, I recognize that dismissing the decisions and judgement of professions may be a fan prerogative. But it is silly to assume that such a prerogative somehow makes fan opinion more credible. IMO, such a prerogative signals an incomplete understanding of the subject ..... which is typically a product of incomplete information. The Seahawk staff has been forth coming, to the point of repeating itself, in answering questions and providing insight into team acquisitions and decisions. It's archived and readily available.

These are the best of times to be a Seahawk fan.

Keep grinding Rees Odhiambo ..... keep grinding.

 

[razor150]

The only thing you should be sighing about is anyone questioning Pete's job.

For starters, nobody has said the two sentences you've put in quotes. One argument I've had on here is that if you're going to constantly call for Bevell to go, you essentially don't trust Pete's judgement. Or you think he's deliberately hurting the team in favour of 'being a good buddy' (which is preposterous given he's already fired one OC and made several tough calls during his Seattle tenure).

If you don't trust Pete's judgement to the point you're going to suggest he might lose his job in the next two years, then I'll stand by what I said before. The person making that argument needs to get a grip. They're 4-2-1, a perennial contender and just endured a tough period with several key injuries including Russell Wilson. To start saying things like, 'Oh the offense could lead to Pete's downfall'. Stop. Just stop.

So "nobody" said the sentence I wrote but then you go on to make the same argument that the sentences I quote convey. Whatever floats your boat dude.

You know, you can love your wife and still think she looks fat in a pair of jeans. It's okay to love Pete and still wonder what the heck is going on with the offense.

If you want to pledge unquestioning fealty to a coach, go cheer for Saban (full disclosure: I'm an Alabama fan) as he seems to insist on it.

The rest of us choose not to kneel before a crown. YMMV.

I have a feeling a lot of the people denying Carroll's obvious blindspot are also the ones who were saying "In Ruskell we trust" just because he slightly retuned the roster Holmgren built. Just like you, nothing I said is me wanting Carroll to be fired, it isn't even doom and gloom for this season. The problem is these problems we have with the offensive line is a yearly problem, and one we aren't always going to be able to bounce back from. It is also something Carroll and the front office seem to want to solve on the cheap. It isn't working, and it these constant problems doesn't even seem to be affecting their philosophy when it comes to the offensive line.

Which can be a problem long term. It can shorten Wilson's career, or ruin it altogether, from the constant beating. His ability to freelance along with Lynch's ability to break tackles have been the only reason this approach has even worked. We've basically have had no Lynch for two seasons now, and this season Wilson is hurt, and nothing is working. Short of another late season offensive surge, that doesn't disappear again in the playoffs like last year, this isn't an offense that is going to take us to the Superbowl. We have the defense, just not the offense.

 

[theENGLISHseahawk]

Well you gotta love English's argument. So many times on this board I see defense of Bevell that "if you don't like Bevell you must not like Pete" or that "if you think Bevell should be fired then you think Pete should be fired too." So somebody actually phrases it that the inability to get the offense going could be Pete's downfall and it is called rubbish. Sigh.

The only thing you should be sighing about is anyone questioning Pete's job.

For starters, nobody has said the two sentences you've put in quotes. One argument I've had on here is that if you're going to constantly call for Bevell to go, you essentially don't trust Pete's judgement. Or you think he's deliberately hurting the team in favour of 'being a good buddy' (which is preposterous given he's already fired one OC and made several tough calls during his Seattle tenure).

If you don't trust Pete's judgement to the point you're going to suggest he might lose his job in the next two years, then I'll stand by what I said before. The person making that argument needs to get a grip. They're 4-2-1, a perennial contender and just endured a tough period with several key injuries including Russell Wilson. To start saying things like, 'Oh the offense could lead to Pete's downfall'. Stop. Just stop.

So "nobody" said the sentence I wrote but then you go on to make the same argument that the sentences I quote convey. Whatever floats your boat dude.

You know, you can love your wife and still think she looks fat in a pair of jeans. It's okay to love Pete and still wonder what the heck is going on with the offense.

If you want to pledge unquestioning fealty to a coach, go cheer for Saban (full disclosure: I'm an Alabama fan) as he seems to insist on it.

The rest of us choose not to kneel before a crown. YMMV.

No, I did not make the same argument.

These posts are the problem with this fan base and this forum at the moment. People are so fat and drunk on success that their expectations are beyond the realms of reality.

Nobody is asserting people should show unquestioned faith in Pete Carroll. But if you're talking about his job security on the day Seattle can move into the #2 seed spot in the NFC, having won one Super Bowl and nearly another, during a period of unmatched excellence for this franchise -- then you need to get a grip. You have lost your senses. You are living in a dream world.

Simple.

No kneeling required. Just a sense of reality.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

:roll:

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