Ranking the 32 Offensive Play Callers in the NFL

[RolandDeschain]

As is "summation," as in the summation of the team is equal to its parts. The Hawks wouldn't be where they are and have been without ALL of their parts generating success.

Because, God knows, there's no way a stronger part can make up for a weaker one. :roll:

 

[Fade]

You've just done a really good job of highlighting how ridiculous your list is.

If you're saying you're automatically a better play caller if you're a Head Coach, why is Josh McDaniels at #1? Surely all of these vastly experienced, multi-year HC's should be above him?

Three of your top five are not Head Coaches.

4/5 were/are.
5/5 will.

Josh McDaniels was such a good play caller it got him a head coaching job. He failed... more as a GM, (Thank You for Earl Thomas.) He has gone right back to dominating as a play caller. Brady, Garropolo, Brissett!? He is very much deserving of the #1 spot. He will be a HC again soon again in this league. Bad O-Line with a statue of a QB? Doesn't seem to bother them. He scheme's away their weaknesses, and exploits their opponents.

Kyle Shanahan is the young, up and coming OC. He was what Josh McDaniels was 8 years ago. He as well will be a HC soon. The Number #1 offense in the league currently. Made RG III a pro-bowler his rookie year. Bevell then looked at that film by the suggestion of Pete Carroll, and started running some of those plays as an FYI.

Again Todd Haley was such a fantastic play caller it got him a Head Coaching job. He failed as a HC. So he took a OC job with Pittsburgh, overhauled Big Ben's game, who hated Todd Haley at first for trying to change him. Now he is better than ever.

Notice a pattern here. The great OCs get Head Coaching jobs because they are such great play callers. They may fail as the head coach, but it is not due to their ability to call plays.

What has Bill O'Brien shown as a play caller to warrant being 15th?

Bill O'Brien was a fantastic coach in college, then proved it in NE in 2011. Then proved it again when he took the HC job @ Penn State in 2012, turned them around immediately after the Sandusky debacle. With a talent depleted roster going 8-4 in his 1st year. With 4 years of sanctions hanging over the program, winning Big 10 Coach of the Year, and National Coach of the Year. Then he got the HC job with the Texans. The Texans do things "different" as they put it, they as in the Texans themselves said it, and O'Brien had no say on Osweiler. In other words they have a Baalke situation where their GM is god, and the coach has no say on personnel.

I am going to give it a few more weeks on O'Brien, if they don't turn it around, and show improvement he is dropping on the list. Osweiler is a new QB in a new system. Going from WCO/ZBS to a variation of the Erhardt-Perkins passing system. It can be complicated when nearly every route is an option route based on the coverage you get. Especially contrasted against the system he was in that featured a lot of 1 reads off of boot action.

You've been given evidence why he should rank higher. Seattle has had a top-10 offense per DVOA for the last four years. The offense put up record breaking numbers in the passing game in 2015. How many of the names above him have a consistent track record like that?

3 Points on that.

1. Russell Wilson. Russell Wilson is the ingenuity of the Seahawks Offense, not Darrell Bevell's schemes. NFL front office's agree, or he would be a HC, or at the very least he would be getting interviews. All those "records" last year, and no one bothered to interview him. Let alone hire him.

The "maybe he doesn't wanna" argument goes out the window when he didn't hesitate to take interviews while the Seahawks were in the playoffs in 2012 & 2013. He would of declined, and instead focused 100% on game planning if he had no interest in being a head coach. I'm not going to go through the hassle of digging through the archives of .com to find it, but Pete Carroll has been on record stating that Bevell wants to be a head coach, and Bevell has as well. Those talks have just quieted down shall we say.

2. You don't just look at the offensive stats, and rank accordingly, they require context.

Hugh Jackson as an example is doing an amazing job with nothing at QB, and a nothing team. They are ranked ahead of the Seahawks on Offense in both yards & points with guys like Charlie Whitehurst, Terrell Pryor, & Cody Kessler playing QB. Give him RW, and watch what would happen.

3. Bevell has an opportunity over the next month with RW banged up, and a bad O-Line. To show the NFL he can come up with some brilliant stuff. To mitigate these factors, that is what great play callers do, and NFL execs will take notice.

You can say things like 'cry moar' as much as you like -- it won't change that this list is a piece of Bleacher Report nonsense at best and at worst just a thinly veiled anti-Bevell thread.

LOL

 

[Fade]

First of all props to Fade for attempting something like this. I don't agree on all of them but that doesn't make me right and its a hard list to come up with. Overall I thought it was very good.

I get the DVOA argument and I use it myself at times. But how much of it is based on Bevell and how much of it is based on a QB who is an elite generational talent? I think its almost impossible for any of us to know until we are forced to. Bevell leaves for another job, is fired, quits etc. Him landing another job doesn't look promising as he doesn't seem to be on anyone's map for a head coaching position which is odd. He works with Wilson who teams are trying to find and replicate going foward(NFL is reactive), coaches in one of only a couple of highly successful systems under Pete Carroll and has had success with a highly efficient offense. So for the pro Bevell crowd(which I have one foot in and one foot out) why with all those pluses is he not being interviewed for a head coaching job? Our defensive coaches get picked off almost annually yet after the initial first couple of years no one wants him. I can't figure it out.

Bevell could be top 5 or bottom 5 and is carried by a generational talent or is somewhere in between. I tend to think its somewhere in between but I hate that I don't know and probably won't know.

I love Rob for what its worth.

Nice thoughts. Is it the QB, or the play caller? Is the tight rope that must be walked.

I would love for you to share your opinions on some of the OCs around the league.

 

[theENGLISHseahawk]

Your last response just proves my point from the start. This was just an anti-Bevell thread all along.

 

[Fade]

Your last response just proves my point from the start. This was just an anti-Bevell thread all along.

And your current response, proves your are paranoid.

Too Easy.

*EDIT*

My Final Point to you.

-------> ALL <-------

of the Play Callers I have ahead of Darrell Bevell, they have been held so highly as offensive minds that they have been made Head Coaches at one point, or in Kyle Shanahan's case will be on everyone's shortlist for upcoming HC jobs. Bevell just isn't in that category, accept it.

Save for two.

Jim Bob Cooter, who in his short time (the 2nd Half of last season, first half of this season.) Has Matt Stafford playing the best ball of his career. With the worst O-Line he has ever had, and no Calvin Johnson.

Bill Musgrave, a career OC & QB coach, what apparently Bevell aspires to be, and has a long standing track record. He propped up Christain Ponder as an example. Helped AP hit 2000 yards, almost won Percy Harvin an MVP then he got hurt, surprise. He is now doing great things with Derek Carr.

 

[Hawk-Lock]

This is just another anti-Bevell thread disguised in the NFL forum. Simply someone's opinion. I do give OP props for ranking all 32. But like someone else mentioned, this is no more than a Bleacher Report slideshow.

Bevell is likely closer to the middle IMO, but I don't have the time or effort to rank them. Nor do I care enough to rank them.

 

[rlkats]

Ok for all you Bevell haters. If our opinions actually we able to make a difference I'd exchange Kelly for Bevell today. Kelly is rated higher. Now stop crying. Lol

 

[Fade]

Ok for all you Bevell haters. If our opinions actually we able to make a difference I'd exchange Kelly for Bevell today. Kelly is rated higher. Now stop crying. Lol

Kelly w/Gabbert & Kap, and 0 weapons have a better offense (20.6), than the Seahawks (18.5). Kelly also has gotten 2 HC jobs because of his offensive acumen. That easily and at the very least gives him a slight edge over Bevell. 21 vs 22.

I have been impressed w/Kelly's red zone numbers this year (10th). They have no weapons, bad QBs, with guys in the 1st yr of the system, so they should be bogging down, and kicking FGs, but they aren't.

This is logical.

 

[RichNhansom]

Ok for all you Bevell haters. If our opinions actually we able to make a difference I'd exchange Kelly for Bevell today. Kelly is rated higher. Now stop crying. Lol

Kelly w/Gabbert & Kap, and 0 weapons have a better offense (20.6), than the Seahawks (18.5). Kelly also has gotten 2 HC jobs because of his offensive acumen. That easily and at the very least gives him a slight edge over Bevell. 21 vs 22.

I have been impressed w/Kelly's red zone numbers this year (10th). They have no weapons, bad QBs, with guys in the 1st yr of the system, so they should be bogging down, and kicking FGs, but they aren't.

This is logical.

Didn't you just say you can't just look at the stats?

The 9ers offense has been nothing short of offensive. They either jump out to a quick early lead possibly catching teams off gaurd and then get destroyed the rest of the game or they get blown out and put ip a bunch of garbage time stats.

Praising Kelly is not a good argument. Watch some of the 9ers games. The guy is just in over his head trying to run a college offense that has been massively exposed.

 

[theENGLISHseahawk]

I think Fade should probably read this: https://theringer.com/chip-kelly-san-fr ... 32f053870e

 

[Popeyejones]

75% of fan bases dislike their O-Coordinator. They are the easy scapegoat for a bad offense.

This x 1,000,000.

To be totally honest, over 99% of NFL fans simply don't watch closely enough and/or understand the game enough to accurately evaluate the quality of their offensive or defensive coordinators (I definitely fall in the 99%).

Basically, if you're not watching all-22 week by week and understand what you're watching you really can't say anything about coordinating.

Just by way of example, let's say your team fails to complete an important 3rd down.

Whose fault is that?

Did you know that the coordinator had called a smash concept with levels or double slants on the backside as a man-beater route?

Did the quarterback misread a cover 4 for a disguised cover 2, or was the defense showing cover 4 but they were really pattern matching?

Or maybe your QB correctly read the man coverage pre-snap so he went to his backside slants but didn't see the DE on the weakside drop into coverage.

Is that his fault because he should have seen that or the offensive coordinator's fault because the defensive coordinator predicted the play call and was baiting them into that? That's pretty hard to answer, but you'd have to know if they had been showing that look that game or not to get a sense of it (i.e. was it predictable or did they just get lucky?)

Or maybe your guy just got beat, or your backside slot WR is supposed to curl back out if the CB takes an inside shade, but he thought he could still beat him which caused your QB to have to hold the ball too long to get back to the front side, which was after the safety has already had a chance to resolve the corner route on the smash concept.

Basically, if you're not able to answer all those questions (and not taking the time to watch the All-22 to answer all those questions) for that play and for all the other plays throughout the rest of the game (i.e. if you just watch one play you don't know if your OC is getting outsmarted or the D just got lucky on a playcall) you really can't say jack about your offensive coordinator and how he's doing.

 

[theENGLISHseahawk]

In fairness to Popeye, he just nailed it.

 

[Hawk-Lock]

75% of fan bases dislike their O-Coordinator. They are the easy scapegoat for a bad offense.

This x 1,000,000.

To be totally honest, over 99% of NFL fans simply don't watch closely enough and/or understand the game enough to accurately evaluate the quality of their offensive or defensive coordinators (I definitely fall in the 99%).

Basically, if you're not watching all-22 week by week and understand what you're watching you really can't say anything about coordinating.

Just by way of example, let's say your team fails to complete an important 3rd down.

Whose fault is that?

Did you know that the coordinator had called a smash concept with levels or double slants on the backside as a man-beater route?

Did the quarterback misread a cover 4 for a disguised cover 2, or was the defense showing cover 4 but they were really pattern matching?

Or maybe your QB correctly read the man coverage pre-snap so he went to his backside slants but didn't see the DE on the weakside drop into coverage.

Is that his fault because he should have seen that or the offensive coordinator's fault because the defensive coordinator predicted the play call and was baiting them into that? That's pretty hard to answer, but you'd have to know if they had been showing that look that game or not to get a sense of it (i.e. was it predictable or did they just get lucky?)

Or maybe your guy just got beat, or your backside slot WR is supposed to curl back out if the CB takes an inside shade, but he thought he could still beat him which caused your QB to have to hold the ball too long to get back to the front side, which was after the safety has already had a chance to resolve the corner route on the smash concept.

Basically, if you're not able to answer all those questions (and not taking the time to watch the All-22 to answer all those questions) for that play and for all the other plays throughout the rest of the game (i.e. if you just watch one play you don't know if your OC is getting outsmarted or the D just got lucky on a playcall) you really can't say jack about your offensive coordinator and how he's doing.

Great post :2thumbs:

 

[RichNhansom]

75% of fan bases dislike their O-Coordinator. They are the easy scapegoat for a bad offense.

This x 1,000,000.

To be totally honest, over 99% of NFL fans simply don't watch closely enough and/or understand the game enough to accurately evaluate the quality of their offensive or defensive coordinators (I definitely fall in the 99%).

Basically, if you're not watching all-22 week by week and understand what you're watching you really can't say anything about coordinating.

Just by way of example, let's say your team fails to complete an important 3rd down.

Whose fault is that?

Did you know that the coordinator had called a smash concept with levels or double slants on the backside as a man-beater route?

Did the quarterback misread a cover 4 for a disguised cover 2, or was the defense showing cover 4 but they were really pattern matching?

Or maybe your QB correctly read the man coverage pre-snap so he went to his backside slants but didn't see the DE on the weakside drop into coverage.

Is that his fault because he should have seen that or the offensive coordinator's fault because the defensive coordinator predicted the play call and was baiting them into that? That's pretty hard to answer, but you'd have to know if they had been showing that look that game or not to get a sense of it (i.e. was it predictable or did they just get lucky?)

Or maybe your guy just got beat, or your backside slot WR is supposed to curl back out if the CB takes an inside shade, but he thought he could still beat him which caused your QB to have to hold the ball too long to get back to the front side, which was after the safety has already had a chance to resolve the corner route on the smash concept.

Basically, if you're not able to answer all those questions (and not taking the time to watch the All-22 to answer all those questions) for that play and for all the other plays throughout the rest of the game (i.e. if you just watch one play you don't know if your OC is getting outsmarted or the D just got lucky on a playcall) you really can't say jack about your offensive coordinator and how he's doing.

Ya ya, your just trying to slam Wils wait what?

Just joking popeye. Great post and I have to say I have really enjoyed your input lately.

 

[ringless]

Not Rated on abilities to be/as a Head Coach, just play calling.

1st - Josh McDaniels
2nd - Hue Jackson
3rd - Kyle Shanahan
4th - Sean Payton
5th - Todd Haley
6th - Gary Kubiak
7th - Bruce Arians
8th - Andy Reed
9th - Mike McCoy

10th - Scott Linehan
11th - Doug Pederson
12th - Rod Chudzinski
13th - Adam Gase
14th - Mike McCarthy
15th - Bill O'Brien
16th - Ben McAdoo
17th - Jay Gruden
18th - Bill Musgrave
19th - Dirk Koetter

20th - Jim Bob Cooter
21st - Chip Kelly
22nd - Darrell Bevell
23rd - Chan Gailey
24th - Norv Turner
25th - Mike Mularkey
26th - Marty Mornhinweg
27th - Mike Shula
28th - Rob Boras
29th - Greg Olson

30th - Anthony Lynn (Rookie)
31st - Ken Zampese (Rookie)
32nd - Dowell Loggains (Rookie)

UPDATE 1: Dropped Norv Turner to 23rd.
UPDATE 2: Raised Bevell to 22nd.

I didn't read all the posts on here but I think it's ridiculous to see the hate Bevell gets on here year in and year out. The Seahawks have had some fantastic offenses the last several years to go along with a stellar defense. I haven't looked but I'd be willing to bet they've been ranked in the top 5 some years and always in the top 15. Look at some of the stretches last year? Keep in mind, 1 super bowl win, 2 super bowl appearances and 4 straight years of the playoffs.

The real story is he is asked to do a lot with very little. Much like Tom Cable. I doubt many OC's would love to inherit the o-line they have been asked or told to work with. Yet they make it work. I think Seattle fans have just become spoiled and due to the successes they've had a lot (not all) of fans have a sense of entitlement that isn't deserved. Not a stab at anyone in particular. There are a lot of great and knowledgeable posters on this site. If you were asked to work with the worst o-line I the NFL what results can you really expect. I'd say they exceed expectations overall on a yearly basis.

To expect a top offense which lets be real. Is because fans are fans. Is not realistic. The fact that it has happened is a blessing for Seattle.

 

[randomation]

Not Rated on abilities to be/as a Head Coach, just play calling.

1st - Josh McDaniels
2nd - Hue Jackson
3rd - Kyle Shanahan
4th - Sean Payton
5th - Todd Haley
6th - Gary Kubiak
7th - Bruce Arians
8th - Andy Reed
9th - Mike McCoy

10th - Scott Linehan
11th - Doug Pederson
12th - Rod Chudzinski
13th - Adam Gase
14th - Mike McCarthy
15th - Bill O'Brien
16th - Ben McAdoo
17th - Jay Gruden
18th - Bill Musgrave
19th - Dirk Koetter

20th - Jim Bob Cooter
21st - Chip Kelly
22nd - Darrell Bevell
23rd - Chan Gailey
24th - Norv Turner
25th - Mike Mularkey
26th - Marty Mornhinweg
27th - Mike Shula
28th - Rob Boras
29th - Greg Olson

30th - Anthony Lynn (Rookie)
31st - Ken Zampese (Rookie)
32nd - Dowell Loggains (Rookie)

UPDATE 1: Dropped Norv Turner to 23rd.
UPDATE 2: Raised Bevell to 22nd.

I didn't read all the posts on here but I think it's ridiculous to see the hate Bevell gets on here year in and year out. The Seahawks have had some fantastic offenses the last several years to go along with a stellar defense. I haven't looked but I'd be willing to bet they've been ranked in the top 5 some years and always in the top 15. Look at some of the stretches last year? Keep in mind, 1 super bowl win, 2 super bowl appearances and 4 straight years of the playoffs.

The real story is he is asked to do a lot with very little. Much like Tom Cable. I doubt many OC's would love to inherit the o-line they have been asked or told to work with. Yet they make it work. I think Seattle fans have just become spoiled and due to the successes they've had a lot (not all) of fans have a sense of entitlement that isn't deserved. Not a stab at anyone in particular. There are a lot of great and knowledgeable posters on this site. If you were asked to work with the worst o-line I the NFL what results can you really expect. I'd say they exceed expectations overall on a yearly basis.

To expect a top offense which lets be real. Is because fans are fans. Is not realistic. The fact that it has happened is a blessing for Seattle.

To expect a top 15 O with a top 5 qb top 3 TE top 5 slot WR and across the board some of the most sure handed WRs in the game is not ludicrous whatsoever. He doesn't make adjustments the first time he did was last year and Russ went on a tear the likes of which had literally never been seen in NFL history and now we went away from that again. He needs to take some pointers from McDaniels get the ball out of Russ's hands quick and every so often hit them up deep. This does not mean freaking bubble screens. Run short fast routes that can essentially replace the running game. He isn't a good OC if he was with the level of success Seattle has had he would be getting interviews consistently and frankly would be gone by now.

 

[Maulbert]

Not Rated on abilities to be/as a Head Coach, just play calling.

1st - Josh McDaniels
2nd - Hue Jackson
3rd - Kyle Shanahan
4th - Sean Payton
5th - Todd Haley
6th - Gary Kubiak
7th - Bruce Arians
8th - Andy Reed
9th - Mike McCoy

10th - Scott Linehan
11th - Doug Pederson
12th - Rod Chudzinski
13th - Adam Gase
14th - Mike McCarthy
15th - Bill O'Brien
16th - Ben McAdoo
17th - Jay Gruden
18th - Bill Musgrave
19th - Dirk Koetter

20th - Jim Bob Cooter
21st - Chip Kelly
22nd - Darrell Bevell
23rd - Chan Gailey
24th - Norv Turner
25th - Mike Mularkey
26th - Marty Mornhinweg
27th - Mike Shula
28th - Rob Boras
29th - Greg Olson

30th - Anthony Lynn (Rookie)
31st - Ken Zampese (Rookie)
32nd - Dowell Loggains (Rookie)

UPDATE 1: Dropped Norv Turner to 23rd.
UPDATE 2: Raised Bevell to 22nd.

I didn't read all the posts on here but I think it's ridiculous to see the hate Bevell gets on here year in and year out. The Seahawks have had some fantastic offenses the last several years to go along with a stellar defense. I haven't looked but I'd be willing to bet they've been ranked in the top 5 some years and always in the top 15. Look at some of the stretches last year? Keep in mind, 1 super bowl win, 2 super bowl appearances and 4 straight years of the playoffs.

The real story is he is asked to do a lot with very little. Much like Tom Cable. I doubt many OC's would love to inherit the o-line they have been asked or told to work with. Yet they make it work. I think Seattle fans have just become spoiled and due to the successes they've had a lot (not all) of fans have a sense of entitlement that isn't deserved. Not a stab at anyone in particular. There are a lot of great and knowledgeable posters on this site. If you were asked to work with the worst o-line I the NFL what results can you really expect. I'd say they exceed expectations overall on a yearly basis.

To expect a top offense which lets be real. Is because fans are fans. Is not realistic. The fact that it has happened is a blessing for Seattle.

To expect a top 15 O with a top 5 qb top 3 TE top 5 slot WR and across the board some of the most sure handed WRs in the game is not ludicrous whatsoever. He doesn't make adjustments the first time he did was last year and Russ went on a tear the likes of which had literally never been seen in NFL history and now we went away from that again. He needs to take some pointers from McDaniels get the ball out of Russ's hands quick and every so often hit them up deep. This does not mean freaking bubble screens. Run short fast routes that can essentially replace the running game. He isn't a good OC if he was with the level of success Seattle has had he would be getting interviews consistently and frankly would be gone by now.

Funny how you forgot to mention our bottom 1 offensive line.

 

[ringless]

Many great teams have been derailed by poor offensives lines and that will be seattles downfall. They have great coaching in all aspects. The offensive coaches do not get as much credit as they deserve. They are asked to do a lot with very little. The offensive line. its like having a Porsche with a civic motor in it though. Russell is asked to do to much on a weekly basis. Christine Michael is still unproven. You have doug Baldwin but who is really going to take over a game outside of him? Seattle has performed beyond expectations on offense every single year.

The offensive line absolutely took a step back this year. The Rb position absolutely took a step back this year. Russell is absolutely injured. Yet you expect better. The majority of the guys big plays have come in backyard football plays and he hasn't had that opportunity this year. Poor offensive line. Injuries. And a depleted
TV position. Look at where the money is and you have your answers. Try to beat a Ferrari when given a Ford Fiesta. good luck. Seattle somehow year after year performs will with little on offense. It's just to much to ask to have a top 5 offense an defense every year. To expect both is unrealistic. That's what the salary cap is for. It's just rearing its head now after drafting so well and having so many exceptional players.

 

[Popeyejones]

I still stand by my statement that for 99% (myself included) of fans any evaluation of coordinators is total hogwash, but just watching regular TV feeds there is something I think we can give Bevell credit for.

Remember a few years ago when the LOB really took off? They were playing a ton of press cover 3, because PC rightly recognized that the NFL didn't really enforce the five yard contact rule. Some fans of other teams called the hawks "cheaters" for this, but that was also a really shallow critique. Instead, the Hawks (incredibly smartly) noticed a hole in how the game was officiated and really maximized that hole by pushing it to its limits.

The same thing is happening on offense right now, and Bevell is in a small group of coordinators (with McDaniels and Wisenhunt) who are really pushing the limits on rub routes in the passing game. The NFL can't deal with it because it's a subjective call (is it "intentional" disruption or not), and unlike what the Hawks were doing on the defensive side of the ball the NFL doesn't really WANT to deal with it because it increases scoring.

Basically, just watching games on TV you can see that the Hawks (like the Pats and Chargers) are running a lot more rub concepts than are most other teams, and it's damn, damn, smart. Baldwin is a great player, but he's not getting that wide open on his own, just as Welker was a great player but wasn't getting that wide open on his own either. Bevell deserves a ton of credit for that.

Teams like the Panthers, Bills, and Titans are being really creative in the run game right now with unbalanced looks and bringing back weird stuff from before the forward pass had really taken hold, but Bevell deserves a ton of credit for doing what other top OCs are doing in the pass game, and taking advantage of a hole in the rule book*

*(just to reiterate, this is NOT a backhanded our underhanded compliment, I seriously mean it as high praise -- there's a lot of guys who with the Hawks team would be leaning on RPOs or the now standard suite of force plays that everyone uses, but Bevell, although incorporating those things, is smartly relying on rubs a lot -- and not just on 3rd down -- as he should be. Like the Hawks press cover 3 of old, if you end up forcing the NFL to change the damn rules, by definition you are innovating and deserve a TON of credit for your innovation :lol: ).

 

[Hawk-Lock]

Exactly.

Unless OP literally studies tape of each teams offense, I just can't take this list seriously.