Penny And Past Hawks Backs

[chris98251]

Much easier to take down someone running more a east west direction since his legs are exposed and you use your momentum to tackle, north south where he can get his pads into you and leg drive to push for yards is different. I say the jury is out and don't think going down easy is relevant based on the few plays he had to work with.

 

[nrayorr]

Like someone said earlier, give him more time. Chris Carson is my vote for the starter at this moment.

 

[ImTheScientist]

To keep the Carson truthers on this board in check... in Carson’s first preseason game he had 7 carries for 19 yards. Last season in the 3 games he played he averaged over 4ypc in only 1 of those 3. By mid season Penny is the starter and getting 60% of the carries.

 

[HawkGA]

with a Ricky Watters attitude.

You mean Mr. For-Who-For-What?

 

[brimsalabim]

Didn’t he pick up a blitz that allowed Russell’s TD toss?

 

[hawknation2018]

To keep the Carson truthers on this board in check... in Carson’s first preseason game he had 7 carries for 19 yards. Last season in the 3 games he played he averaged over 4ypc in only 1 of those 3. By mid season Penny is the starter and getting 60% of the carries.

Yeah, he was a rookie running behind one of the worst run blocking offensive lines in the NFL. He looks better this year, and that is the point. Penny will look better next year too.

 

[MontanaHawk05]

To keep the Carson truthers on this board in check...

And why, exactly, do you feel the need to take on this profound mantle of responsibility?

 

[vin.couve12]

To keep the Carson truthers on this board in check... in Carson’s first preseason game he had 7 carries for 19 yards. Last season in the 3 games he played he averaged over 4ypc in only 1 of those 3. By mid season Penny is the starter and getting 60% of the carries.

If you're going to use a variant of the word "Truth" then you need to note that Carson had 2 GL TD's. One of which, he blasted a 280 pounder into the endzone. Science isn't about trying to prove something, btw. It's to disprove. Carson/Penny will play out how it plays out as it pertains to what is best for the Seahawks.

[youtube]lkIJZsRpiP4[/youtube]

 

[CamanoIslandJQ]

Let us see Penny running behind the first string OL if we want to compare stats between Carson & Penny, that at least would make more of a fair comparison between the 2. IMO-Carson -MAY- be injured before half the season is over, based on his previous extensive injury history, thus the Penny pick as PC doesn't want anything less than a great running game. Their entire draft seemed to reflect that PC wants a solid running game with nearly every pick. I'm glad they passed on Guice, Jones, Chubb, Michael, et. al. NOTE: Penny has NEVER missed a practice or a game in his career so far (knock on wood) and the "availability" factor is truly important.

Another point about Penny, he is an elite KO returner, I'd assume McKissick, et. al. as returners is just a look for a B/U returner. Once they show Penny as the actual KO returner (and they will) the league will be on notice in that regard. I believe Penny will prove to be an excellent late 1-st round pick and add significant value to the Seahawks running game, as either a tandem player with Carson or as the workhorse RB if and when Carson is injured again. Seems like a solid plan to solidify the running game that PC wants to establish. Run the damn ball down their throats, that's the ticket.

:smilingalien:

 

[quadsas]

As of right now I am on Carson wagon. Hopefully Penny gets 15+ carries on Sunday so he can see how he can handle the full load. I am only hoping this doesn't turn out like last season, where before the preseason I was so excited cause we had Rawls, Prosise, Lacy, and Carson. Turned out to be a complete pile of shit.

 

[KiwiHawk]

To keep the Carson truthers on this board in check... in Carson’s first preseason game he had 7 carries for 19 yards. Last season in the 3 games he played he averaged over 4ypc in only 1 of those 3. By mid season Penny is the starter and getting 60% of the carries.

This is an awesome example of looking at stats instead of situations.

 

[adeltaY]

To keep the Carson truthers on this board in check... in Carson’s first preseason game he had 7 carries for 19 yards. Last season in the 3 games he played he averaged over 4ypc in only 1 of those 3. By mid season Penny is the starter and getting 60% of the carries.

This is an awesome example of looking at stats instead of situations.

Or just not the right stats. Success rate is better because it takes into account the situation. A two yard run on 3rd and 1 is better than a ten yard run in 3rd and 12, which YPC doesn't adjust for. Problem is a lot of those stats are behind paywalls and you have to get lucky to see someone tweet them out from time to time. I'm willing to bet Carson had a high success rate.

 

[Northwest Seahawk]

I really hope he turns into a good player . The fact is none of us would have taken him where he was drafted . I really hope were not looking at yet another first round disaster. We'll see how he looks Sat i'm expecting a much better night.

 

[Fade]

I really hope he turns into a good player . The fact is none of us would have taken him where he was drafted . I really hope were not looking at yet another first round disaster. We'll see how he looks Sat i'm expecting a much better night.

I got some bad news for you. He hurt his hand in practice, and probably won't play.

 

[Northwest Seahawk]

I really hope he turns into a good player . The fact is none of us would have taken him where he was drafted . I really hope were not looking at yet another first round disaster. We'll see how he looks Sat i'm expecting a much better night.

I got some bad news for you. He hurt his hand in practice, and probably won't play.

Hurt his hand yes probably won't play i haven't that from the coaches yet so i'm holding out some hope he'll play for now.

 

[CamanoIslandJQ]

I admit to being a stat junkie, so go ahead and knock me for that (I prefer to look at actual performance over perceived potential) and that may rub some the wrong way. Stats wise, Penny has a lot of positives and IMO his numbers show a unique talent to excel, it may take a little time to get his game up to speed (as with ALL rookies) but once he hits his stride,---> look out. The level of competition factor was pretty much made moot by Penny's play against power-5 schools and his really outstanding bowl game against Army as well as his play at the senior bowl, (not to mention his 5 200-yard games to end the season).

I'd like to show the college stats for them both for purposes of comparison. I'm not bashing Carson here, I like him a lot and he will be a very important piece to the NEW Seahawks running game going forward provided he can stay healthy, which can't be taken for granted, thus the Penny draft pick. An additional NOTE: DE-Rasheem Green was ranked 20-30+ spots higher than Penny for most of the draft season, however, as the draft got closer it slowly became Penny/Green, instead of Green/Penny in most National rankings and we got both in the draft so who cares in what order we got them? The Seahawks needed both a DE & a RB.

----CHRIS CARSON College stats: (Okay, so maybe....... he's just a very late bloomer?)
2013/2014, seems to have been on the team, no appearances, due primarily to injuries - I'd suppose?
2015: 12 games, 131 carries for 517-yds, 3.9-YPC, 4-TD's; 17-rec for 170-yds, 10.0-YPC, 0-TD's
2016: 9 games, 82 carries for 559-yds, 6.8-YPC, 9-TD's; 13 rec for 128-yds, 9.8-YPC, 1-TD.
--CAREER: 213/1076/5.1-YPC, 13-TD's; 30 rec for 298-yds, 9.9-YPC, 1-TD,
--Games over 100-yds rushing = 2 total, receiving TD's = 1 total, KO & Punt returns = 0-yds/0-TD's.
--Total career all purpose TD's = 14, (About 29% of Penny's total TD's in production.)
--TOTAL ALL PURPOSE YARDS = 1374-yards. (About 21% of Penny's total yards in production.)
--NCAA records - None.

----RASHAAD PENNY College stats: (No missed games, doesn't have excess RB mileage & put up great #'s).
2014: 10-games, 2 carries for 22-yds, 11.0-YPC, 0-TD's; 0-receptions.
+ 20-KO returns for 500-yds, 25.0-YPR
2015: 14-games, 61 carries for 368-yds, 6.0-YPC, 4-TD's; 8-receptions for 120-yds, 15.0-YPC, 1-TD,
+ 24-KO returns for 804-yds, 33.5-YPR, 3-TD's
2016: 14-games, 136 carries for 1018-yds, 7.5-YPC, 11-TD's; 15 receptions for 224-yds, 14.9-YPC, 3-TD's
+ 20-KO returns for 624-yds, 31.2-YPR, 2-TD's
2017: 13-games, 289 carries for 2248-yds, 7.8-YPC, 23-TD's; 19 receptions for 135-yds, 7.1-ypc, 2-TD's.
+ 17-KO returns for 521-yds, 30.6-YPR, 2-TD's; -and- 2 punt returns for 70-yds, 35.0-YPR, 1-TD.
--CAREER: 488/3656, 7.5-YPC, 38-TD's; 42 receptions for 479-yds, 11.4-YPC, 6-TD's
+ 81/2449/30.2/7 KO returns & 2/70/1-TD Punt returns with 8-return TD's total.
--Games over 100-yds rushing = 16, including 7 Games over 200-yds rushing, (5 straight to end season.)
--Total career - all purpose TD's = 52.
****TOTAL ALL PURPOSE YARDS = 6654-yards.
--Penny's NCAA records:
2017: #1 rusher with 2248-yds., #1 total yds. from scrimmage with 2383-yds., #2 with 23 rushing TD's
CAREER: #6 in NCAA since 1956 (over 62 years) with 7.5-yd RUSHING average. #4 in NCAA since 1976 (over 42 years) with KO return average of 31.2-YPR; #1 (tied) in NCAA since 1976 (over 42 years) with 7-KO returns taken to the house for exciting TD's (+ 1 of 2 punts returned for a TD).

------------>Maybe we just need to give this kid a FAIR chance and wait for a larger sample size before so many fans start questioning, bashing & knocking him and calling him a wasted pick and a bust? Maybe?
:smilingalien:

 

[Sun Tzu]

I admit to being a stat junkie, so go ahead and knock me for that (I prefer to look at actual performance over perceived potential) and that may rub some the wrong way. Stats wise, Penny has a lot of positives and IMO his numbers show a unique talent to excel, it may take a little time to get his game up to speed (as with ALL rookies) but once he hits his stride,---> look out. The level of competition factor was pretty much made moot by Penny's play against power-5 schools and his really outstanding bowl game against Army as well as his play at the senior bowl, (not to mention his 5 200-yard games to end the season).

I'd like to show the college stats for them both for purposes of comparison. I'm not bashing Carson here, I like him a lot and he will be a very important piece to the NEW Seahawks running game going forward provided he can stay healthy, which can't be taken for granted, thus the Penny draft pick. An additional NOTE: DE-Rasheem Green was ranked 20-30+ spots higher than Penny for most of the draft season, however, as the draft got closer it slowly became Penny/Green, instead of Green/Penny in most National rankings and we got both in the draft so who cares in what order we got them? The Seahawks needed both a DE & a RB.

----CHRIS CARSON College stats: (Okay, so maybe....... he's just a very late bloomer?)
2013/2014, seems to have been on the team, no appearances, due primarily to injuries - I'd suppose?
2015: 12 games, 131 carries for 517-yds, 3.9-YPC, 4-TD's; 17-rec for 170-yds, 10.0-YPC, 0-TD's
2016: 9 games, 82 carries for 559-yds, 6.8-YPC, 9-TD's; 13 rec for 128-yds, 9.8-YPC, 1-TD.
--CAREER: 213/1076/5.1-YPC, 13-TD's; 30 rec for 298-yds, 9.9-YPC, 1-TD,
--Games over 100-yds rushing = 2 total, receiving TD's = 1 total, KO & Punt returns = 0-yds/0-TD's.
--Total career all purpose TD's = 14, (About 29% of Penny's total TD's in production.)
--TOTAL ALL PURPOSE YARDS = 1374-yards. (About 21% of Penny's total yards in production.)
--NCAA records - None.

----RASHAAD PENNY College stats: (No missed games, doesn't have excess RB mileage & put up great #'s).
2014: 10-games, 2 carries for 22-yds, 11.0-YPC, 0-TD's; 0-receptions.
+ 20-KO returns for 500-yds, 25.0-YPR
2015: 14-games, 61 carries for 368-yds, 6.0-YPC, 4-TD's; 8-receptions for 120-yds, 15.0-YPC, 1-TD,
+ 24-KO returns for 804-yds, 33.5-YPR, 3-TD's
2016: 14-games, 136 carries for 1018-yds, 7.5-YPC, 11-TD's; 15 receptions for 224-yds, 14.9-YPC, 3-TD's
+ 20-KO returns for 624-yds, 31.2-YPR, 2-TD's
2017: 13-games, 289 carries for 2248-yds, 7.8-YPC, 23-TD's; 19 receptions for 135-yds, 7.1-ypc, 2-TD's.
+ 17-KO returns for 521-yds, 30.6-YPR, 2-TD's; -and- 2 punt returns for 70-yds, 35.0-YPR, 1-TD.
--CAREER: 488/3656, 7.5-YPC, 38-TD's; 42 receptions for 479-yds, 11.4-YPC, 6-TD's
+ 81/2449/30.2/7 KO returns & 2/70/1-TD Punt returns with 8-return TD's total.
--Games over 100-yds rushing = 16, including 7 Games over 200-yds rushing, (5 straight to end season.)
--Total career - all purpose TD's = 52.
****TOTAL ALL PURPOSE YARDS = 6654-yards.
--Penny's NCAA records:
2017: #1 rusher with 2248-yds., #1 total yds. from scrimmage with 2383-yds., #2 with 23 rushing TD's
CAREER: #6 in NCAA since 1956 (over 62 years) with 7.5-yd RUSHING average. #4 in NCAA since 1976 (over 42 years) with KO return average of 31.2-YPR; #1 (tied) in NCAA since 1976 (over 42 years) with 7-KO returns taken to the house for exciting TD's (+ 1 of 2 punts returned for a TD).

------------>Maybe we just need to give this kid a FAIR chance and wait for a larger sample size before so many fans start questioning, bashing & knocking him and calling him a wasted pick and a bust? Maybe?
:smilingalien:

This is the fourth post in which you have stated that Carson did not play for OSU in 2013/2014 either due to injury or because he couldn't win the starting job. Please check your facts. Carson went the junior college route playing for Butler Community College as a freshman and sophomore, he was not on the OSU roster those years; that is why you are not finding stats for him in those years.

I hope both are successful because that will be good for the team. At this point, I have seen Carson perform well against much better competition, both at the college and professional level, Carson is better in pass pro, and Carson is the better athlete; therefore, I think it likely that Carson wins the starting job and holds onto it, at least for 2018. However, this is somewhat dependent on how well the o-line performs. From what I have seen of these two in games (thanks Vin for posting the RB highlight videos leading up to the draft), Carson is the better option with a week o-line that struggles to create running lanes, and Penny has a shot to be the better back with a strong o-line that can open decent holes. Again, ideally both work out as that is best for the team.

 

[Seahawkfan80]

I wish PC never said anything about his weight, because everyone is spinning it to make a point.

Let me put this back to why PC said this.After the mock game, where Penny ran for 57 yards for a TD -keep in mind he outran DBs with his KrispyKreme filled belly, PC said he did this weighing 236 Ibs.

It was a compliment.

At the NFL Combine, he weighted 220lbs. We all know, players train for the combine, which means they do a lot conditioning drills to maximize their performance. They typically drop weight too. so that doesn't mean he showed up at his playing/listed weight.

Ex. Fluker is listed at 345lbs. Really? We all know he's pushing 360. It's probable Penny played over his listed weight 220 at SDSU.

And, no one who attended TC said anything about his weight, looking slow, sluggish, etc. It's now an issue because people are creating their own narrative based on what PC said.

Go to YouTube and look for Seahawks 360 Running Backs Gaunlet. I would embed the video, but don't know how. And tell me if he looks like the pot bellied RB.

[youtube]0dQLuWGuCMw[/youtube]
Here you go.

 

[Seahawkfan80]

Here is every time he handled the ball. I thought he looked good, the second and third carries in particular he created positive yardage out of essentially nothing. I'd like to see an ability to break more tackles or get more yardage after contact, but all in all, I thought it was a very positive start.

My only disappointment was on the two check down receptions, where he couldn't seem to wriggle free or move the defender to try and get the extra couple yards.


[youtube]yhY0vmb-8bA[/youtube]

Fixed it for you. after the equals sign= paste.

 

[Fade]

I admit to being a stat junkie, so go ahead and knock me for that (I prefer to look at actual performance over perceived potential)

----CHRIS CARSON College stats: (Okay, so maybe....... he's just a very late bloomer?)
2013/2014, seems to have been on the team, no appearances, due primarily to injuries - I'd suppose?
2015: 12 games, 131 carries for 517-yds, 3.9-YPC, 4-TD's; 17-rec for 170-yds, 10.0-YPC, 0-TD's
2016: 9 games, 82 carries for 559-yds, 6.8-YPC, 9-TD's; 13 rec for 128-yds, 9.8-YPC, 1-TD.
--CAREER: 213/1076/5.1-YPC, 13-TD's; 30 rec for 298-yds, 9.9-YPC, 1-TD,
--Games over 100-yds rushing = 2 total, receiving TD's = 1 total, KO & Punt returns = 0-yds/0-TD's.
--Total career all purpose TD's = 14, (About 29% of Penny's total TD's in production.)
--TOTAL ALL PURPOSE YARDS = 1374-yards. (About 21% of Penny's total yards in production.)
--NCAA records - None.

----RASHAAD PENNY College stats: (No missed games, doesn't have excess RB mileage & put up great #'s).
2014: 10-games, 2 carries for 22-yds, 11.0-YPC, 0-TD's; 0-receptions.
+ 20-KO returns for 500-yds, 25.0-YPR
2015: 14-games, 61 carries for 368-yds, 6.0-YPC, 4-TD's; 8-receptions for 120-yds, 15.0-YPC, 1-TD,
+ 24-KO returns for 804-yds, 33.5-YPR, 3-TD's
2016: 14-games, 136 carries for 1018-yds, 7.5-YPC, 11-TD's; 15 receptions for 224-yds, 14.9-YPC, 3-TD's
+ 20-KO returns for 624-yds, 31.2-YPR, 2-TD's
2017: 13-games, 289 carries for 2248-yds, 7.8-YPC, 23-TD's; 19 receptions for 135-yds, 7.1-ypc, 2-TD's.
+ 17-KO returns for 521-yds, 30.6-YPR, 2-TD's; -and- 2 punt returns for 70-yds, 35.0-YPR, 1-TD.
--CAREER: 488/3656, 7.5-YPC, 38-TD's; 42 receptions for 479-yds, 11.4-YPC, 6-TD's
+ 81/2449/30.2/7 KO returns & 2/70/1-TD Punt returns with 8-return TD's total.
--Games over 100-yds rushing = 16, including 7 Games over 200-yds rushing, (5 straight to end season.)
--Total career - all purpose TD's = 52.
****TOTAL ALL PURPOSE YARDS = 6654-yards.
--Penny's NCAA records:
2017: #1 rusher with 2248-yds., #1 total yds. from scrimmage with 2383-yds., #2 with 23 rushing TD's
CAREER: #6 in NCAA since 1956 (over 62 years) with 7.5-yd RUSHING average. #4 in NCAA since 1976 (over 42 years) with KO return average of 31.2-YPR; #1 (tied) in NCAA since 1976 (over 42 years) with 7-KO returns taken to the house for exciting TD's (+ 1 of 2 punts returned for a TD).

Stats are irrelevant. If stats were important teams would just draft the players with the best stats, and fire their scouts to save money.

What got Penny drafted in the 1st rd is his athletic ability, good size, and the few times he was placed against top level college competition he performed. The numbers he piled up playing in a small conference the NFL could care less.

Chris Carson also had worse stats than Penny so shouldn't he be behind Penny on the depth chart?

Stats are the least important thing to measure when projecting to the NFL. Due to how wildly different the schemes can be and the level of competition. I don't, and the NFL doesn't care how many yards a RB piled up against Smallschool State & Brokesville Tech.

1) Durability. Medical.
2) Heart, work ethic, desire. (Hardest thing to measure what is in a guy's heart, but there are flags.)
3) Off the field, character. (Can varie from team to team for sure on the priority scale.)
4) Physical ability, Skill set.
5) Projected scheme fit. Does the player fit your scheme?
6) Stats, production.


BRANDON WEEDEN SR year

72.4% | 4727 YDs | 37 TDs | 13 INTs | 159.7 Rating


KIRK COUSINS SR year

63.7% | 3316 YDs | 25 TDs | 10 INTs | 145.7 Rating

Kirk clearly had inferior stats, but ended up having BY FAR the way better career. Ryan Tannehill also went ahead of Weeden in the same draft with worse stats, and has had a better career despite his inferior COLLEGE STATS.

Stats are the least important factor. Production will come if they have everything else.