Oregon vs Ohio state

[frosted21]

That QB wasnt a factor running the ball in THIS game. He ran it 21 times for 38 yards..

Maybe the fact that Ohio States RB had 36 carries for 246 yards and 4TD was the deciding factor here

Against Auburn Cam had 64 yards on 22 carries

Both QBs had less than 3 YPC

I would say the RBS and running game total is what lost them both games...I mean holy shit look at these stats

Auburn, 50 carries for 254 yards
Ohio State 61 carries for 296 yards and 5 TD

A 250 pound runner carrying 21 times has a way of wearing a defense down. He just happened to play QB. Then you add the other carries by a physical back in Elliot.

Oregon's defense is built to fly, it's not built to endure. Their run defense was toast by the 2nd quarter.

When OSU needed a yard on 4th down, it was like taking candy from a baby.

Not to mention - how many sacks did the big fella duck out of? He extended a lot of plays early in the game, while it was stil...well, a game.

 

[hawksfansinceday1]

Boy if there was any validation of what pieces of human filth and vomit Ohio State and its fans are....there you are.

Pieces of trash that make toilet detritus look like high class in comparison.

I hate Oregon.

Hate them with a seething passion, but I hope that the Ohio State QB and RB both break their legs next year. And if fate is at all kind, Urban Meyer will end up with an incurable disease that sees him a bedridden husk in his later years.

Ick.

Ohio State has always been a cesspool of stupidity and classless vermin, but there was always hope they would crawl out of it and redeem themselves someday.

Guess not.

What a vile group of trash I just witnessed.

Lol? Someone wanna ban this guy?

What a game by OSU....4 turnovers and win by 22. Unreal.

What he said was utterly uncalled for and so was Urban running up the score. I get how he feels but disagree with how he expressed it.

 

[lobohawk]

Can't speak for the whole game, as I only watched some of the first half, but OSU's line seemed to be owning the Duck's DL. That's a recipe for disaster.

 

[Uncle Si]

Can't speak for the whole game, as I only watched some of the first half, but OSU's line seemed to be owning the Duck's DL. That's a recipe for disaster.

I think thats the death knell of the Pac 12 offense. we just see the same issues. They've all designed their offenses to be fast and innovative, while the SEC and Big 10 are still built with strength. When the two meet, its never quite a contest. Those schools literally have the pick of the top linemen on both sides of the ball.

OSU gifted Oregon 4 turnovers, and still won by 3 touchdowns. If youre a Pac12 coach you should be looking at moving away from mimicking Oregon and start rebuilding the offenses (and defenses) of the great teams of the past. Carrol's USC team probably being the most recent of those. Oregons offense just wont win a national championship if matched up with a team built like OSU or an SEC team.

Anyways, a nice run by Oregon, but not a surprising finish.

 

[WilsonMVP]

Can't speak for the whole game, as I only watched some of the first half, but OSU's line seemed to be owning the Duck's DL. That's a recipe for disaster.

I think thats the death knell of the Pac 12 offense. we just see the same issues. They've all designed their offenses to be fast and innovative, while the SEC and Big 10 are still built with strength. When the two meet, its never quite a contest. Those schools literally have the pick of the top linemen on both sides of the ball.

OSU gifted Oregon 4 turnovers, and still won by 3 touchdowns. If youre a Pac12 coach you should be looking at moving away from mimicking Oregon and start rebuilding the offenses (and defenses) of the great teams of the past. Carrol's USC team probably being the most recent of those. Oregons offense just wont win a national championship if matched up with a team built like OSU or an SEC team.

Anyways, a nice run by Oregon, but not a surprising finish.

Easier said than done when you cant really recruit the top guys on the lines. People wonder why the SEC teams are usually good well look at their lines and the athletes there compared to the PAC

Also

This was a really bad game for Oregon. I don't think they ever expected to stop Elliot and planned on executing their offense as usual. The two drops on 3rd down really changed the pace of the game. Oregon's offense was eating up OSu in the beginning. Missing those two conversions changed the momentum of the game. If the two teams played again, it could be a very different outcome. After that 2nd drop, Oregon was never able to run their hurry up offense much after that, even though they moved the ball fairly decently. It seemed that the 2 failed conversions really affected Oregon's mindset. The following drive after those 2 there was obvious PI that went uncalled on 3rd down as well

 

[Uncle Si]

recovered 4 turnovers, and lost by 21. of course they "moved" the ball. they are supposed to be geared to outrun teams. point is they cant play with teams built with strength. and probably never will. they were never in the game. while their were opportunities missed, they were given way too many, and still lost, by alot. the 4th quarter was just watching kids getting pushed by men. good day or bad, its fairly apparent that the base philosophy of these teams will never match up.

Oregon can keep on doing what its doing, but I cant see a scenario in which they win a championship unless they somehow pull a Big 12 or ACC team in a final. Same with any of those teams. The SEC and Big 10 have the right idea on winning consistently in college football.

If I'm UW, ASU, USC, UCLA, at some point you have to rationalize that its pointless to try and out-gimmick Oregon and return to what won the Pac 10 National championships in the past. Of course its not easy, but its not unprecedented.

 

[Seahawks1983]

recovered 4 turnovers, and lost by 21. of course they "moved" the ball. they are supposed to be geared to outrun teams. point is they cant play with teams built with strength. and probably never will. they were never in the game. while their were opportunities missed, they were given way too many, and still lost, by alot. the 4th quarter was just watching kids getting pushed by men. good day or bad, its fairly apparent that the base philosophy of these teams will never match up.

Oregon can keep on doing what its doing, but I cant see a scenario in which they win a championship unless they somehow pull a Big 12 or ACC team in a final. Same with any of those teams. The SEC and Big 10 have the right idea on winning consistently in college football.

If I'm UW, ASU, USC, UCLA, at some point you have to rationalize that its pointless to try and out-gimmick Oregon and return to what won the Pac 10 National championships in the past. Of course its not easy, but its not unprecedented.

The west coast, and the northwest especially, just doesn't produce the numbers of elite linemen that Texas, Ohio, and Florida produce.

 

[JSeahawks]

If I'm UW, ASU, USC, UCLA, at some point you have to rationalize that its pointless to try and out-gimmick Oregon and return to what won the Pac 10 National championships in the past. Of course its not easy, but its not unprecedented.

Honestly I don't think the "gimmick offense" has anything to do with the championship game problems. Auburn and Florida have both won championships recently running similar offenses. Hell, urban meyer is good buddies with chip kelly and has spent a lot of time in eugene sharing ideas. It's about the Jimmy's and the joes, not the X's and O's.

The ducks biggest problem is their location. They're in the middle of a state that produces maybe 3 four star players in a good year. I honestly believe that if Phil knight could pull a ken Behring and move the whole operation to Los Angeles, Dallas or Atlanta (coaches, system, culture, facilities and Nike influence) that they would be maybe they biggest dynasty in college football history. They've won more games in the last decade then any power 5 school and they've never had a top 10 recruiting class (I believe their highest ranking was 13 by one sight).

Sucks as a fan to realize they may never win a championship, but ill gladly take double digit wins every season and rosé bowl wins over the Florida states of the world.

 

[Uncle Si]

If I'm UW, ASU, USC, UCLA, at some point you have to rationalize that its pointless to try and out-gimmick Oregon and return to what won the Pac 10 National championships in the past. Of course its not easy, but its not unprecedented.

Honestly I don't think the "gimmick offense" has anything to do with the championship game problems. Auburn and Florida have both won championships recently running similar offenses. Hell, urban meyer is good buddies with chip kelly and has spent a lot of time in eugene sharing ideas. It's about the Jimmy's and the joes, not the X's and O's.

The ducks biggest problem is their location. They're in the middle of a state that produces maybe 3 four star players in a good year. I honestly believe that if Phil knight could pull a ken Behring and move the whole operation to Los Angeles, Dallas or Atlanta (coaches, system, culture, facilities and Nike influence) that they would be maybe they biggest dynasty in college football history. They've won more games in the last decade then any power 5 school and they've never had a top 10 recruiting class (I believe their highest ranking was 13 by one sight).

Sucks as a fan to realize they may never win a championship, but ill gladly take double digit wins every season and rosé bowl wins over the Florida states of the world.

Auburn and Florida's offense was a much more methodical one, though. but as you said, its personnel. which was my point, really. I mean Oregon's offense is to take advantage of their skill players and not just pound the ball, because, well, they cant against really good teams.

I dont know, this is more about Pac 10 football. I guess Oregon is happy being the best of the average. I mean I recognize the notion that fans dont mind "winning double digit games and winning more than anyone else" but the teams they truly compete with (Alabama, OSU, LSU, Auburn, Florida) play at a far higher level from year to year. While Oregon has found a formula to always come at the top of mediocrity, those schools have found that the only way to remain on top is to concede to each other every couple years while they rebuild.

I cant see Oregon or any Pac 10 team competing with that... not while trying to play hurry up after the kickoff

 

[JSeahawks]

Btw, if I'm cardale jones I'm declaring for the draft right now. He was a redshirt sophomore so he's eligible and his stock will probably never be higher then it is right now after these last 3 games. He probably won't even start again at Ohio state if Barrett is healthy. Kids a beast.

 

[Uncle Si]

Btw, if I'm cardale jones I'm declaring for the draft right now. He was a redshirt sophomore so he's eligible and his stock will probably never be higher then it is right now after these last 3 games. He probably won't even start again at Ohio state if Barrett is healthy. Kids a beast.

be nice to see him play under pressure from the D.
Wisconsin, Bama and Oregon didnt really do much to him.

 

[Seahawks1983]

If I'm UW, ASU, USC, UCLA, at some point you have to rationalize that its pointless to try and out-gimmick Oregon and return to what won the Pac 10 National championships in the past. Of course its not easy, but its not unprecedented.

Honestly I don't think the "gimmick offense" has anything to do with the championship game problems. Auburn and Florida have both won championships recently running similar offenses. Hell, urban meyer is good buddies with chip kelly and has spent a lot of time in eugene sharing ideas. It's about the Jimmy's and the joes, not the X's and O's.

The ducks biggest problem is their location. They're in the middle of a state that produces maybe 3 four star players in a good year. I honestly believe that if Phil knight could pull a ken Behring and move the whole operation to Los Angeles, Dallas or Atlanta (coaches, system, culture, facilities and Nike influence) that they would be maybe they biggest dynasty in college football history. They've won more games in the last decade then any power 5 school and they've never had a top 10 recruiting class (I believe their highest ranking was 13 by one sight).

Sucks as a fan to realize they may never win a championship, but ill gladly take double digit wins every season and rosé bowl wins over the Florida states of the world.

Auburn and Florida's offense was a much more methodical one, though. but as you said, its personnel. which was my point, really. I mean Oregon's offense is to take advantage of their skill players and not just pound the ball, because, well, they cant against really good teams.

I dont know, this is more about Pac 10 football. I guess Oregon is happy being the best of the average. I mean I recognize the notion that fans dont mind "winning double digit games and winning more than anyone else" but the teams they truly compete with (Alabama, OSU, LSU, Auburn, Florida) play at a far higher level from year to year. While Oregon has found a formula to always come at the top of mediocrity, those schools have found that the only way to remain on top is to concede to each other every couple years while they rebuild.

I cant see Oregon or any Pac 10 team competing with that... not while trying to play hurry up after the kickoff

That is kind of the point though, only USC has ever been able to consistently recruit the linemen needed to dominate at the LOS with the best of the best.

There simply are not enough good players in this area of the country to do it.

Here is a good look at where college recruits come from:

http://www.footballstudyhall.com/2013/9 ... ia-florida

 

[Uncle Si]

its no secret where college recruits come from. also has alot to do with the number of colleges in those states. Think of the how many D1 college programs there are in Texas, Florida and california. (Ohio has a right few as well) ofcourse those states have the highest percentage of recruits. they need all those players to fill out rosters.

Huskies were a dominant team for years prior to USC's run bringing in big o-linemen everywhere from hawaii to cali to nebraska, etc., plus keeping their own. Oregon isnt failing to get o-linemen because their are not any in Oregon.

Point is, there are players out there. the basic philosophy of the west coast schools has changed.. alot. and alot of that is due to Oregon. not a bad thing, but now that we've seen it on a national scale, and how it doesnt work, it will be interesting to see if any Pac 10 (12.. whatever) teams start changing.

The big schools like OSU are getting their pick of the linemen because they are developing them well. if youre a high school senior living in Utah, are as big as a house and move like a dancer, what school are you choosing? For example, Oregon currently has 30 players in the NFL, 4 are O linemen. OSU has 32 players, 10 on the O-line. i just dont see it as an accident, and i honestly see it as the biggest difference in the two teams last night.

Anyways, thats what made this playoff great, and it was nice to see a Pac 12 team get a run out. will be interesting to see if it leads to any changes here.

 

[Cad]

Can't speak for the whole game, as I only watched some of the first half, but OSU's line seemed to be owning the Duck's DL. That's a recipe for disaster.

I think thats the death knell of the Pac 12 offense. we just see the same issues. They've all designed their offenses to be fast and innovative, while the SEC and Big 10 are still built with strength. When the two meet, its never quite a contest. Those schools literally have the pick of the top linemen on both sides of the ball.

OSU gifted Oregon 4 turnovers, and still won by 3 touchdowns. If youre a Pac12 coach you should be looking at moving away from mimicking Oregon and start rebuilding the offenses (and defenses) of the great teams of the past. Carrol's USC team probably being the most recent of those. Oregons offense just wont win a national championship if matched up with a team built like OSU or an SEC team.

Anyways, a nice run by Oregon, but not a surprising finish.

There's definitely something to this. Look at the Pac-12 team that has had by far the best success against Oregon. It's Stanford. They're all about power football.

Finesse can't beat straight-up imposing your will upon the other team.

I think a lot of Pac-12 schools, including UW, made a mistake in trying to mimic Oregon. They should have cloned Stanford.

 

[Hasselbeck]

Oregon will never win a National Championship.. they caught every break in the world this year and still got drubbed.

Too funny.

What breaks did they catch? Their best wr and best olinemen never played a down. They played a few games without their top 4 tackles. Lost their starting tight end to a horrific leg injury. Lost 2 starting receivers for the title game due to injury and suspension. I think it was one of the more resilient teams I've seen. Got their asses kicked today though.

The SEC was collectively down. Arguably the 2nd best team in the country was left out of the playoff entirely. Ohio State was down to a 3rd string QB. USC has been on probation for years and has a decimated roster. Stanford was down this year, etc. etc.

If there was ever a year for Oregon to steal a title.. it was this year.. and they lost by 22.

 

[Seahawks1983]

its no secret where college recruits come from. also has alot to do with the number of colleges in those states. Think of the how many D1 college programs there are in Texas, Florida and california. (Ohio has a right few as well) ofcourse those states have the highest percentage of recruits. they need all those players to fill out rosters.

Huskies were a dominant team for years prior to USC's run bringing in big o-linemen everywhere from hawaii to cali to nebraska, etc., plus keeping their own. Oregon isnt failing to get o-linemen because their are not any in Oregon.

Point is, there are players out there. the basic philosophy of the west coast schools has changed.. alot. and alot of that is due to Oregon. not a bad thing, but now that we've seen it on a national scale, and how it doesnt work, it will be interesting to see if any Pac 10 (12.. whatever) teams start changing.

The big schools like OSU are getting their pick of the linemen because they are developing them well. if youre a high school senior living in Utah, are as big as a house and move like a dancer, what school are you choosing? For example, Oregon currently has 30 players in the NFL, 4 are O linemen. OSU has 32 players, 10 on the O-line. i just dont see it as an accident, and i honestly see it as the biggest difference in the two teams last night.

Anyways, thats what made this playoff great, and it was nice to see a Pac 12 team get a run out. will be interesting to see if it leads to any changes here.

You are completely missing the point. Those states produce the most because they have the biggest populations and most football rich cultures. Ohio State gets their pick of the litter because Ohio produces a ton of players and players want to play for the big school in the state, that is no different that top Seattle area recruits wanting to play for UW. So yes, location absolutely matters.

As for football philosophy - Urban Meyer has been winning with a spread offense similar to Oregon's everywhere he has been: Bowling Green, Utah, Florida, and Ohio State. The only difference between Ohio State and Oregon last night was tOSU had better players. This isn't your grandfathers Woody Hayes Ohio State program.

 

[Uncle Si]

its no secret where college recruits come from. also has alot to do with the number of colleges in those states. Think of the how many D1 college programs there are in Texas, Florida and california. (Ohio has a right few as well) ofcourse those states have the highest percentage of recruits. they need all those players to fill out rosters.

Huskies were a dominant team for years prior to USC's run bringing in big o-linemen everywhere from hawaii to cali to nebraska, etc., plus keeping their own. Oregon isnt failing to get o-linemen because their are not any in Oregon.

Point is, there are players out there. the basic philosophy of the west coast schools has changed.. alot. and alot of that is due to Oregon. not a bad thing, but now that we've seen it on a national scale, and how it doesnt work, it will be interesting to see if any Pac 10 (12.. whatever) teams start changing.

The big schools like OSU are getting their pick of the linemen because they are developing them well. if youre a high school senior living in Utah, are as big as a house and move like a dancer, what school are you choosing? For example, Oregon currently has 30 players in the NFL, 4 are O linemen. OSU has 32 players, 10 on the O-line. i just dont see it as an accident, and i honestly see it as the biggest difference in the two teams last night.

Anyways, thats what made this playoff great, and it was nice to see a Pac 12 team get a run out. will be interesting to see if it leads to any changes here.

You are completely missing the point. Those states produce the most because they have the biggest populations and most football rich cultures. Ohio State gets their pick of the litter because Ohio produces a ton of players and players want to play for the big school in the state, that is no different that top Seattle area recruits wanting to play for UW. So yes, location absolutely matters.

As for football philosophy - Urban Meyer has been winning with a spread offense similar to Oregon's everywhere he has been: Bowling Green, Utah, Florida, and Ohio State. The only difference between Ohio State and Oregon last night was tOSU had better players. This isn't your grandfathers Woody Hayes Ohio State program.

Not missing the point at all. they have larger populations, sure. but they also have 10x the number of schools vying for those players. Ohio has 8 Division one programs, for example. I wont even bother coming up with the number of programs in Texas, Florida and California, but its far more. Players pick schools that will showcase their skills. How many of Oregon's top skill players are from Oregon? matter of fact, looking at their roster, how many of any of the players are from oregon? the Ducks seem to do fine going out of state, and while it may be a little more difficult, to suggest that "location matters" is completely ignorant of the program Oregon has created.

Oregon's failure on the big stage is because theyve designed an offense, and recruited to it (alot from California it seems), that cannot match the SEC and OSU this year. they are beating Pac 12 teams. as JSeahawk said "just fine winning double digit games and losing in championships"

OSU and Florida's offense, while "spread" revolve around a power running game. the fact the QB is mobile only adds to that. they are not as similar as you want. they dont run up to the line. they dont thrown 25-30 times a game, and run the ball far more. Miller, for example, threw more than 25 times 4 times all season. He also averaged over 15 carries, often times hitting over 20 carries. I imagine Tebows stats werent much different. Oregon was demolished by power running, power football. not a spread offense. thats alot more Woody Hayes than you're giving it credit. Mariota can run, but hes a thrower, averaging nearly 30 attempts a game. and I imagine it would be more had more of his games been closer.

you are starting to come off as some sort of excuse as to why Oregon got manhandled. Personally, i dont care either way. Oregon doesnt need to change a thing. i'm just wondering if other Pac 12 teams will move away from it and return to a more balanced offense and start highlighting defense as a priority again.

 

[Seahawks1983]

its no secret where college recruits come from. also has alot to do with the number of colleges in those states. Think of the how many D1 college programs there are in Texas, Florida and california. (Ohio has a right few as well) ofcourse those states have the highest percentage of recruits. they need all those players to fill out rosters.

Huskies were a dominant team for years prior to USC's run bringing in big o-linemen everywhere from hawaii to cali to nebraska, etc., plus keeping their own. Oregon isnt failing to get o-linemen because their are not any in Oregon.

Point is, there are players out there. the basic philosophy of the west coast schools has changed.. alot. and alot of that is due to Oregon. not a bad thing, but now that we've seen it on a national scale, and how it doesnt work, it will be interesting to see if any Pac 10 (12.. whatever) teams start changing.

The big schools like OSU are getting their pick of the linemen because they are developing them well. if youre a high school senior living in Utah, are as big as a house and move like a dancer, what school are you choosing? For example, Oregon currently has 30 players in the NFL, 4 are O linemen. OSU has 32 players, 10 on the O-line. i just dont see it as an accident, and i honestly see it as the biggest difference in the two teams last night.

Anyways, thats what made this playoff great, and it was nice to see a Pac 12 team get a run out. will be interesting to see if it leads to any changes here.

You are completely missing the point. Those states produce the most because they have the biggest populations and most football rich cultures. Ohio State gets their pick of the litter because Ohio produces a ton of players and players want to play for the big school in the state, that is no different that top Seattle area recruits wanting to play for UW. So yes, location absolutely matters.

As for football philosophy - Urban Meyer has been winning with a spread offense similar to Oregon's everywhere he has been: Bowling Green, Utah, Florida, and Ohio State. The only difference between Ohio State and Oregon last night was tOSU had better players. This isn't your grandfathers Woody Hayes Ohio State program.

Not missing the point at all. they have larger populations, sure. but they also have 10x the number of schools vying for those players. Ohio has 8 Division one programs, for example. I wont even bother coming up with the number of programs in Texas, Florida and California, but its far more. Players pick schools that will showcase their skills. How many of Oregon's top skill players are from Oregon? matter of fact, looking at their roster, how many of any of the players are from oregon? the Ducks seem to do fine going out of state, and while it may be a little more difficult, to suggest that "location matters" is completely ignorant of the program Oregon has created.

Oregon's failure on the big stage is because theyve designed an offense, and recruited to it (alot from California it seems), that cannot match the SEC and OSU this year. they are beating Pac 12 teams. as JSeahawk said "just fine winning double digit games and losing in championships"

OSU and Florida's offense, while "spread" revolve around a power running game. the fact the QB is mobile only adds to that. they are not as similar as you want. they dont run up to the line. they dont thrown 25-30 times a game, and run the ball far more. Miller, for example, threw more than 25 times 4 times all season. He also averaged over 15 carries, often times hitting over 20 carries. I imagine Tebows stats werent much different. Oregon was demolished by power running, power football. not a spread offense. thats alot more Woody Hayes than you're giving it credit. Mariota can run, but hes a thrower, averaging nearly 30 attempts a game. and I imagine it would be more had more of his games been closer.

you are starting to come off as some sort of excuse as to why Oregon got manhandled. Personally, i dont care either way. Oregon doesnt need to change a thing. i'm just wondering if other Pac 12 teams will move away from it and return to a more balanced offense and start highlighting defense as a priority again.

Oregon got manhandled because they were dominated at the point of attack - that is not excuse that is a fact. We seem to be in agreement on that.

I think the rest of your argument is irrelevant really. You make it sound like Oregon is a throwing only team, as if they run the Air Raid or something. That simply is not the case. They run and pass pretty evenly, they just like to do it as fast as possible so as to wear down defenses. But when those defenses control the LOS, they stall, just like any other team in the history of football.

Ohio State won the line of scrimmage on both sides of the ball, and they were able to do so because they are have far better linemen, and they have more access to those types of elite players you need at those positions than Oregon does. That has been true in the state of Ohio since they invented the game.

 

[JSeahawks]

Oregons dline actually played pretty well, IMO. Linebacker play was atrocious.

 

[Uncle Si]

right, my initial point being that the point of attack is something that Oregon, or any of the Pac 12 schools, will ever be able to control against these big SEC and Big Ten (OSU at this point) schools. This is recruiting (which we agree on). Why its recruiting is something we seem to differ on.

Oregon obviously can recruit outside the state. why talented o-linemen choose somewhere else isnt just about location, its about what opportunities it brings those players. this has been true of college football players for decades. Nebraska used to have the best power running program in the nation. did the state suddenly stop producing elite linemen?

bemoaning the "advantages" one college has in recruiting while stocking your roster with a high number of players from throughout the country just because of your name brand is a bit disingenuous.