LJ Collier

[SantaClaraHawk]

He's been in every game from ATL on but...two tackles?
http://www.nfl.com/player/l.j.collier/2562248/profile

By comparison, rookie Cody Barton has had 20: https://www.espn.com/nfl/player/_/id/39 ... ody-barton

Anyone know how many snaps Collier's getting? Is he doing ST work? I've kept an eye out for him, but dude really has seemed invisible.

As he's a first-rounder, wouldn't it be expected for him to step in, rack some stats in a position of need?

Why is no one talking about him?

 

[joeseahawks]

Should we just stop drafting in the first round (and second?)? Why do we miss so much?

 

[SantaClaraHawk]

Should we just stop drafting in the first round (and second?)? Why do we miss so much?

I was wondering the same thing.

Collier has an $11M contract with almost $10M of it guaranteed. B/c of that, he's all but guaranteed to be on the 53 next year regardless of what he's done, which so far has been sitting on a roster spot (itself an opportunity cost).

Their success is in the third round or later. I'd rather see them trade a first for multiple picks downfield with more reasonable contracts.

 

[Smellyman]

Fun fact.

LBs make more tackles than DEs

 

[SantaClaraHawk]

Fun fact.

LBs make more tackles than DEs

Yeah they do. So do you think LJ is on track or not?

 

[kobebryant]

A bit of a stalled start with the injury in training camp and is behind competent veterans in Jefferson and Jackson, and a recent fast riser in Rasheem Green.

LJ looked good last week in his most extensive work so far, so if he can contribute to the depth late in the season that'd be a positive given the attrition that teams deal with late in the season.

 

[Smellyman]

Fun fact.

LBs make more tackles than DEs

Yeah they do. So do you think LJ is on track or not?

No because he missed preseason, training camp and start of season.

This season will be a wash because of that. He can gain some valuable practice and game time the rest of the year and try to progress.

I wasn't a fan of the pick at all, but I won't hold this season against him.

 

[ivotuk]

LJ missed a lot of time to injury, and doesn't have that many live game reps. I believe Pete is limiting what's on his plate, and bringing him along slowly. Remember how bad Shaquem looked when they gave him too much? Pete prefers to avoid that and build up their confidence.

Add to that, the injuries along the DLine, and Collier hasn't had it as good as some rookies that get to play on a good to great DLine.

Look at how Rasheem started out in pre-season last year, then got injured. It stunted his growth, but this year he's making major progress. Green was seen as a 1st Round pick last year by many. But fear of his knee injury dropped him to the 3rd round.

FYI on Green, but it applies to most rookie DL.

Overview

Green's draft grade is based on projection over what he shows today. He has obvious upside that is waiting to be unlocked and unleashed, but he must get stronger and play with better technique and toughness. Green doesn't have the sand in his pants to hold up at the point of attack as an interior defender and will likely be targeted as a base end in 4-3 or 3-4 schemes with a likely role of reducing inside on passing downs. Green may need a team with a patient approach and willing mentor to guide him along his early stages. It will take time, but he should become an impact starter in the league.

https://www.nfl.com/prospects/rasheem-g ... f0940b540a

Info on knee. (So he's basically an early 2nd Round pick, in the same range as Collier)

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2 ... e-is-fine/

Having said all that, i had hoped LJ would have shown more by now.

HOWEVAH! If we get healthy, and the young guys start coming in to their own late like they usually do under Pete, we could have a phenomenal defense going in to the playoffs.

 

[Seanhawk]

Fun fact.

LBs make more tackles than DEs

Yeah they do. So do you think LJ is on track or not?

How about we give him some time? Some players don't ever "get it", some get it right way, some take some time. Rasheem Green is a perfect example. Many here were labeling him as a wasted pick, hell, I even forgot he was on the team earlier this year, but he seems to have made the turn and is starting to look like a ball player.

 

[sutz]

The NFL draft is not Fantasy Football. In the top 10 picks or so, yeah you can expect immediate ROI in most cases. But after the middle of the first round, long term value starts to override immediate impact as a reason to draft. The back end of the first round are more like expensive 2d rounders when it comes to impact.

I'm not worried about LJ Collier. He's sunk cost now. It is up to Pete and his staff how he progresses or not, and what to do if he doesn't. Whining that he only has 2 tackles is silly.

 

[FlyingGreg]

It's been a tough season for Collier, but he has started to come around. Pete spoke about him in his press conference this week as a guy they think is finally turning the light on.

A lot of people were down on Rasheem Green last season, and look at him now. Not a star by any stretch, but a solid/reliable player with upside who leads our defense in sacks.

We need to give Collier some time. I wasn't a huge fan of spending our first-round pick on him, but its also way too soon to evaluate him.

Let's see what happens.

 

[Mad Dog]

At the time we drafted Collier, we had no Ansah, and no Clowney. I get the need to draft a DE as it was our biggest need. It's just that at that point the stars like Nick Bosa and Josh Allen were gone. Not sure there were clearly better options at that point.

It's always nice when you have needs everywhere and can go BPA in the first round. Otherwise I'm always with John in his strategy of getting athletic big men in the first round as much as possible.

I just wish our hit rate was a bit higher but hey we do tend to make hay on day 2 and 3 so there's always that.

 

[SantaClaraHawk]

Meh, not a big fan of first round picks as this team, especially, is thriving on later ones. In the past decade, our good first round picks have been Earl, Irvin and maybe Penny (who was before IR sitting behind seventh-rounder Carson).

That's not to say the other picks were disasters. They just have resulted in locking in rookies with large contracts that get a longer leash because of sunk cap/FO ego. With the draft order the way it is, we may as well be picking in the second round in the first--so why not trade that pick for more picks in the range where we excel?

 

[sutz]

Meh, not a big fan of first round picks as this team, especially, is thriving on later ones. In the past decade, our good first round picks have been Earl, Irvin and maybe Penny (who was before IR sitting behind seventh-rounder Carson).

That's not to say the other picks were disasters. They just have resulted in locking in rookies with large contracts that get a longer leash because of sunk cap/FO ego. With the draft order the way it is, we may as well be picking in the second round in the first--so why not trade that pick for more picks in the range where we excel?

There you go being logical. :laugh:

Pete & John obviously agree with you most years. I do, too. The "any first round pick should automatically be a starter or at least a significant contributor" is kind of unrealistic, especially for a team that is in the playoffs every year.

 

[SantaClaraHawk]

Meh, not a big fan of first round picks as this team, especially, is thriving on later ones. In the past decade, our good first round picks have been Earl, Irvin and maybe Penny (who was before IR sitting behind seventh-rounder Carson).

That's not to say the other picks were disasters. They just have resulted in locking in rookies with large contracts that get a longer leash because of sunk cap/FO ego. With the draft order the way it is, we may as well be picking in the second round in the first--so why not trade that pick for more picks in the range where we excel?

There you go being logical. :laugh:

Pete & John obviously agree with you most years. I do, too. The "any first round pick should automatically be a starter or at least a significant contributor" is kind of unrealistic, especially for a team that is in the playoffs every year.

I'm willing to give them a virtual redshirt for Year 1, but realistically by Year 1.5 and def 2 they should be seeing the field, and their contributions should be judged without reference to what round they went in. That's easier said than done when someone's been paid $9M to injury-guaranteed apprentice for four years. They get to stay even if their performance is worse than a UDFA.

Dunno if that's the case with Collier. Haven't really seen him. But in camp, it can only help him and the team at this stage to put some competition at the position.

 

[sutz]

Meh, not a big fan of first round picks as this team, especially, is thriving on later ones. In the past decade, our good first round picks have been Earl, Irvin and maybe Penny (who was before IR sitting behind seventh-rounder Carson).

That's not to say the other picks were disasters. They just have resulted in locking in rookies with large contracts that get a longer leash because of sunk cap/FO ego. With the draft order the way it is, we may as well be picking in the second round in the first--so why not trade that pick for more picks in the range where we excel?

There you go being logical. :laugh:

Pete & John obviously agree with you most years. I do, too. The "any first round pick should automatically be a starter or at least a significant contributor" is kind of unrealistic, especially for a team that is in the playoffs every year.

I'm willing to give them a virtual redshirt for Year 1, but realistically by Year 1.5 and def 2 they should be seeing the field, and their contributions should be judged without reference to what round they went in. That's easier said than done when someone's been paid $9M to injury-guaranteed apprentice for four years. They get to stay even if their performance is worse than a UDFA.

Dunno if that's the case with Collier. Haven't really seen him. But in camp, it can only help him and the team at this stage to put some competition at the position.

Which is basically where Penny and Green are WRT their careers. :229031_shrug: Plus, injury can throw and have thrown a monkey wrench into those timelines. I'm not really an apologist, just patient and I try to be a realist.

 

[kf3339]

in 2017 they traded down from the late first round with Atlanta to take Malik McDowell in the top of the second round. They easily could have had TJ Watt at that time if they believed in him at all. Instead they got a head case, Lano Hill in the third and Carson in the 7th which they easily could have gotten with a later pick.

If anything I think it shows that the last half of the 1st round and first half of the second round is basically the same talent. It just depends on which player can make his case after the selection in this league. It also shows that PC no longer has any real insight into the college talent coming out as before. But we would not be talking about a weak pass rush with TJ on this team. Just saying....

 

[SantaClaraHawk]

It's really early, but so far I'm wondering if LJ's more a Solomon Thomas or a Jimmy Ward. LJ was hyped as being more of the latter, a swiss-army style player. But I haven't seen any flashes of that yet.

Solly? He's still largely invisible despite the $30M the 9ers spent on him.

 

[onanygivensunday]

Meh, not a big fan of first round picks as this team, especially, is thriving on later ones. In the past decade, our good first round picks have been Earl, Irvin and maybe Penny (who was before IR sitting behind seventh-rounder Carson).

Interesting factoid... there has been a total of only eight (8) players drafted in the 1st round after the #10 pick that have made the Pro Bowl in the last four drafts (2016 to 2019)… and only three (3) that were selected starting with pick #20 to #32, which is where we have tended to pick when we have a first rounder.

Let's give the young man some time... and snaps... before we judge him too sharply.

 

[Appyhawk]

You're right sunday. I haven't seen enough of Collier to make any kind of judgement. Our draft team traded down twice in the first round last year, then selected Collier, crowing about what they had done "and STILL got our guy." Sure enough, he is the guy they picked in first round. But to this point he hasn't looked anything like what I expect from a first round pick.
I will give credit to our guys in the chairs though. What they have accomplished in the way of trading up and down, identifying talent and 'fit' other teams seem to overlook has been amazing. I trust them to know what they're doing. If they say Collier is gonna pan out, I'll go with that.