Kam is IN the Building!!!!!!! (The New KAM Topic)

[Throwdown]

I really don't care why he came back, it's none of my concern. The fans don't know this man, he doesn't look us in the eye on a daily basis. No need for him to owe us anything. We were going to spend money on this team regardless of him being here or not.

 

[hawk45]

I really don't care why he came back, it's none of my concern. The fans don't know this man, he doesn't look us in the eye on a daily basis. No need for him to owe us anything. We were going to spend money on this team regardless of him being here or not.

I agree that when push comes to shove players probably don't feel they owe fans anything. Whether they should or not doesn't really interest me since it's subjective.

I'm okay with that. As long as there's no superfan BS about how it hurts the team if a boo is heard.

I "care" about players as much as they "care" about me, which is to say not at all unless they are doing something that makes me happier on Sunday. You're right, we don't know them and they don't know us, the relationship for us is based purely on their value to the team, because we're happier and more entertained when the team wins. Other than their impact on my Sundays, an NFL player weighs far less to me than a good engineer or heck point out any bright kid walking around with their folks.

Given a few hours to digest, I'm fairly certain 99.9% of fans will be over this in a game or two if he performs.

I'm excited about how the defense will be now, the only time I stay pissed off is when I think about how his absence hurt our chances in St. Louis. Again, I don't care what business point he was making any more than he cares about what I have to do in daily life.

 

[ZagHawk]

One upsetting thing was how Kam said he can forgive those (the fans) who don't understand his situation. Yet it's not like he understands ours either? As fans most of us don't make millions of dollars, we have to watch a player we love (who makes millions of dollars), hurt a team we love more, because he wants more millions. Yeah forgive us because we don't understand his situation.

 

[vin.couve12]

Most of these people haven't even played a down of football in their life and so players are just expendable, weekly entertainment.

This sounds really bad. Why should it matter if most people haven't played a down of football? Most people don't get the benefits that even PS Squad NFL players get.

A lot of people get injured or crippled on the job or in accidents and spend the rest of their lives battling for health care and treatment. Nobody looks up to them for that. So why should it be so different for NFL players?

They're not special people. Some, like Russell Wilson use their platform to benefit others, but percentage wise, it's not that common in professional sports beyond foundations that are also tax shelters.

NFL players are some of the most well off people on the face of this planet, and should never complain about their short earning window, when that window contains more money than most of us will see in a lifetime.

And I wish they would stop referring to this game as "war." IMHO, it's an insult to our soldiers. I don't despise them for using the the term, I don't think they know any better. But if they were to go to Afghanistan, or Iraq, they would probably stop calling football "war."

I'm glad Kam's back, I don't hold any grudge for him because he hurt himself, his coaches and his teammates far more than he hurt me. I just hope he can get back to where he was before he made this (imho) silly move, and that the wounds between him, the front office, and the players can be healed and put behind them. But that's on Kam to do that. He shouldn't even be mentioning those "that disagreed with me." That's their right, his decision effected them also. Just because they are on his team doesn't mean they have to agree with his decisions.

That said, it needs to be a two way street. They all need to put this behind them and be on equal footing. If Kam buddies up with Marshawn Lynch in an "us against the world" theme like there was with Percy Harvin last year, that helps nobody.

Lastly, I see a lot of emotion on here from both sides, but mostly even-keeled talk. That, imho, is to be expected, and I can't see where there's a position that anyone can take where they can say "I'm right, and you're incorrect." Because football is such an emotional, fanatical sport, fans are going to have every level of emotional investment and opinion there is. There is no right or wrong to it.

"For ye suffer fools gladly, seeing ye yourselves are wise." does not apply to football forums :snack:
.

First part of all that you said, what their market value is and what the average person's market value is has no bearing what so ever. If you're looking for fair/equal, there are some Scandanavian countries that seem to do a really good job of that.

The second part about war, I absolutely agree. I wish Ray Lewis would get this when he was talking about "battle" and "war". If they want to talk about that they need to get their arse down to MEPS and get it started.

For the rest of it, I'm not advocating that Kam will create problems, only that you want to deter it. I've also said that I think both sides made out pretty well here. Kam's set up for next season and the Seahawks got to hold the precedent.

Lastly, I don't care how people take that comment. If it hurts their feelings that's a personal frickin problem. Having never played football comes with an ignorance on subjects like these. It's painful. Often extremely so with permanent damage to the brain and the rest of the body. We've all seen these crazy stories like Seau and what not. We've also seen players like Borland retire after a year sighting the sheer regularity of concussions. Who's more violent than Kam? Who puts their body on the line more than him? How many of you were supportive of Borland in principle? If Kam would have retired then so be it. Under a team friendly contract where they can release him the next time ET runs into his knee and ruins it again? So what. That's Kam's problem right? Nothing in this world is guaranteed.

Unless it's in a contract....which was the whole point of all of this. It's called business.

All of these insane sentiments of how people want him to beg and grovel or flat out see him suffer for their forgiveness is just trash. There's nothing vested for basically any of us in here. You don't do ish but sit on your couch and watch and yet think you're owed something? Or maybe you went to a game? Season ticket holder? Who give's a ish? You're still ENTITLED to nothing. Even if we're talking about another player I just see some monstrous emotional nonsense in here. It's disgusting. No frame of reference or anything at steak and yet oh so ready to pick up pitchforks. ukeface:

For the record, not all of this rant was directed at you, Ivotuk.

 

[hawk45]

Vin, if Kam's allowed to do what he wants to advance his own monetary goals, why should it bother you that fans also keep their own entertainment goals uppermost and bring out the pitchforks?

I agree with your point about emotion though. Neither side *really* gives a crap about the other if it means impacting their own endgame, so words like loyalty really don't apply.

Except for fans like ivotuk who do feel some loyalty, and if you're going to feel that way you are absolutely right to be pissed that it's not a two-way street.

In other words, fans are fans in their own way. This argument is really about fan A not feeling like fan B. Which is essentially what nearly every thread in the history of sports threads boils down to admittedly.

 

[The Grouch]

I say "welcome back"

 

[vin.couve12]

Vin, if Kam's allowed to do what he wants to advance his own monetary goals, why should it bother you that fans also keep their own entertainment goals uppermost and bring out the pitchforks?

I agree with your point about emotion though. Neither side *really* gives a crap about the other if it means impacting their own endgame, so words like loyalty really don't apply.

Except for fans like ivotuk who do feel some loyalty, and if you're going to feel that way you are absolutely right to be pissed that it's not a two-way street.

In other words, fans are fans in their own way. This argument is really about fan A not feeling like fan B. Which is essentially what nearly every thread in the history of sports threads boils down to admittedly.

It's the entitlement that bothers me. Disagreeing with Kam or the Seahawks is to be expected, but thinking their owed something for nothing?

I'm just seeing President Camacho firing off a 60 with monster trucks trying to run over a guy while the crowd goes nuts.

 

[jake206]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/bettinahansen/status/646823206062460928[/tweet]

Yup looks like hard feelings all around :sarcasm_off:

 

[Rose City Hawk]

Boom!!!

...mic drop..

 

[LeaveLynchAlone]

Poor, poor Bears and Jimmy Clausen.

Welcome back Kam.

Kam forgives you. I do too.

 

[idahawks]

Seems to be two opinions on this subject "too little too late" and "better late tan never"

I'm in the "better late than never" camp. I was very critical during his hold out and said many times he doesn't deserve more money and he's and idiot. Now that he's back with no more money I just want him to help us win. Why hold a grudge you don't know him personally and if he helps us win who cares. I'm sure he'll get traded in the off season so he's going to be going all out to try to prove himself to other teams. Advantage-Seahawks. Schneider and Allen are geniuses.

 

[bmorepunk]

I've been pretty quiet about this.

Felt what Kam was asking wasn't unreasonable but understood the teams stance. Leaving your brothers out there for 2 weeks of battle is a situation he's gonna have to address himself and resolve with his team mates. As for us fans? Kam owes us NOTHING. You chose to be a fan of this team, they didn't hold you to it, this is part of being a fan, the good the bad and the ugly.

I'm glad Kam's back, can't wait to watch a few opposing receivers get gator arms or get their heads knocks off. My favorite player is back, and I'm happy as hell about it.

I disagree. The players actually do owe something to the fans, and that's to live up to the organization's mission statement. Fans back a team because of geography, primarily, but also because of how the organization conducts itself. Just look how many people like the Raiders because of the bad boy image that squad has cultivated. In our case that's "Always compete." Kam eschewed that. He was happy to tout the "Brothers" mantra until it got in the way of his checkbook. At Least until now. Do you think he came back today because of his teammates, or because he was sick of the fines and missed game checks?

Maybe that's corny, but it makes fandom easier.

Players come and go. The team outlasts them all, and that's why I always put the team first.

The players don't owe anything to fans. They're hired to be a product on the field; they're not selling the product. They are the product, and they are sold by the team and the league. The owners and teams owe fans enough to make them think they're getting what they're paying for.

If a player wants to thank fans because they know they get to do their fun job because people enjoy watching them do it, then that's good. But the romanticized version of players is not consistent with reality.

With rare exception, these guys will be thrown away by management and fans alike when they have been used up, just like any other product.

 

[kearly]

I think Kam may be on the market when this season is done.

It depends how much equity Kam has left with Pete. Pete once admitted that Troy Polumalu was his all-time favorite player at USC. I suspect that pre-holdout, Kam was his favorite Seahawk. The way Pete reacted to Kam ending his holdout reminded me of how the rich father reacted in the parable of the prodigal son. Pete was overjoyed when he could have been bitter.

I think Pete loves Kam too much to deal him. Additionally, we've seen how troubled the defense is without Kam, so I don't think Pete would move on from #31 until he's confident in the replacement.

Answer:
[tweet]https://twitter.com/bcondotta/status/646769611623505921[/tweet]

I'm sold.

 

[c_hawkbob]

Hope none of you knuckleheads torched your #31 jersey over this.

Wearing mine right now (as I was in my avatar).

 

[HawkFan72]

I think Kam may be on the market when this season is done.

It depends how much equity Kam has left with Pete. Pete once admitted that Troy Polumalu was his all-time favorite player at USC. I suspect that pre-holdout, Kam was his favorite Seahawk. The way Pete reacted to Kam ending his holdout reminded me of how the rich father reacted in the parable of the prodigal son. Pete was overjoyed when he could have been bitter.

I think Pete loves Kam too much to deal him. Additionally, we've seen how troubled the defense is without Kam, so I don't think Pete would move on from #31 until he's confident in the replacement.

Good analogy. I agree, I think Pete appreciates what Kam does too much to be bitter about this.

 

[Gametime]

I think Kam may be on the market when this season is done.

It depends how much equity Kam has left with Pete. Pete once admitted that Troy Polumalu was his all-time favorite player at USC. I suspect that pre-holdout, Kam was his favorite Seahawk. The way Pete reacted to Kam ending his holdout reminded me of how the rich father reacted in the parable of the prodigal son. Pete was overjoyed when he could have been bitter.

I think Pete loves Kam too much to deal him. Additionally, we've seen how troubled the defense is without Kam, so I don't think Pete would move on from #31 until he's confident in the replacement.

Good analogy. I agree, I think Pete appreciates what Kam does too much to be bitter about this.

Not only does he truly appreciate his physical sacrifice I think that he understands Kam's point of view. Understanding and forgiveness are very similar. I think it's a weight off Pete's heart and shoulder's and I think we see a different team mentally on Sunday. Time to move on and move UP!!!

 

[hawk45]

There was no way Pete or the players would ever hold a grudge once Kam returned. Nobody has questioned what he brings to the defense, and that's all the coaches and players care about.

 

[greenblue_eye's2]

Wow... This is great, and excellent news, so glad for Hawks....Yaasssssss!!!

 

[hawkfan68]

And so ends the dumbest holdout in recent sports memory. It's not that Kam doesn't deserve a raise, it's that when given the choice between losing Kam and setting a backbreaking precedent in the new CBA environment, the choice was ALWAYS going to be the former. Kam NEVER had a chance to win this, and only succeeded in hurting the team and himself. If my understanding is correct, Kam is the only NFL player to miss games from a holdout under the new CBA without viably threatening retirement (Carson Palmer in 2011). There's a reason you haven't seen players do it, it's just dumb as hell to try. And it's even dumber when considering the needless damage it did to a team in a SB window.

And to all those people saying Kam didn't cost us. I think he absolutely cost us win probability. Bailey slipping in the Rams game by itself was probably a 40-45% win probability swing (I'll check the official number once Advanced NFL stats stops being lazy and updates for 2015). There were a few other explosive plays given up in that game because of Bailey too. I'd guess that Bailey's win probability added in that game was around -50% if not worse.

Kam's absence is harder to quantify in the Packers game, but it's probably safe to say he cost us something substantial in a tight game. And that's not even getting into the intangibles that Kam brings. Our defense clearly looked demoralized in the first two games with the Kam cloud hanging over everyone's heads.

Maybe we are 0-2, or 1-1, or 2-0 with Kam. Nobody can say for sure, but remember that games turn on a single play all the time. His absence definitely hurt our chances to win those games, and hurt them substantially.

So while a part of me is thrilled to have him back well before that looming road game at Cincy, part of me is still upset that he was foolish enough to do this to himself and to his teammates. If our season ends in January at Lambeau, or in a different stadium with Seattle as a wildcard, I won't ever get over it 100%. That said, if this ultimately proves to be a non-factor and Seattle plays all their playoff games at home and/or gets back to the SB, then I'll get over it.

If there is one positive to take from this, it's that Seattle got an honest appraisal of what Kam's backups are worth. Which turns out, isn't much. Addressing safety needs to be a big priority in the 2016 draft. You don't want to be a Kam injury away from Bailey or Shead.

On that note, I hope they ease Kam in against the Bears. I'd be fine with waiting until the 2nd half to play him.

Great post as always Kearly. I was wondering why they didn't switch Eric Pinkins back to the safety spot during the Kam holdout situation. He played the position in college and probably could have been better than a serviceable replacement for Kam at SS. He is a good tackler and showed some decent flashes during the preseason. Here's his draft profile - http://www.nfl.com/draft/2014/profiles/eric-pinkins?id=2549978. The Seahawks are very set on converting players from their positions in college, maybe sometimes it may be worth to develop players at their existing positions rather experimenting with them . Given time, maybe Pinkins grows into being a decent safety. That was his position before the 2014 draft.

 

[Rocket]

He's back, that's all that counts. Everything else is just froo froo.

Exactimundo !!!!
Good job ya old Fart. :mrgreen:

EDIT: can't wait to see Kearly's probability numbers, tho. :thfight7: