Is Russell Wilson a pocket passer ?

[Anthony!]

No he is not a pocket passer

ukeface:

 

[RiverDog]

I'm thinking from what I saw yesterday thats the feeling I got from his performance, only running once if I'm not mistaken.
Starting off the first pre-season with a iffy OL trying to make him sit in the pocket seems to be a little "dangerous". Did anybody else get that feeling thats what the Seahawks are wanting RRuss to do?
Two superbowls in a row I'd hand him the ball and say go gett'em.
cheers

The announcers claimed that the Hawks wanted Russell to stay in the pocket more than he has in the past 3 years, but from what I saw Friday, there isn't much of a pocket for him to stay in.

Russell is the most dangerous when he's outside the pocket and has his run-pass option. Especially given our current woes along the OL, I see no reason why we should try to force Russell to stay in the pocket. Give him a play and let him do the rest and don't worry about whether or not he's staying in the pocket.

Which is why Seattle gets off to slow starts and RW until says "screw it" and starts taking off in the 2nd half and like magic they start scoring points in bunches. This offense is much harder to stop when they DON'T force him to stay in the pocket and the defense can't be over aggressive or RW burns them with his legs. You'd think our OC would have figured it out by now but he is either too stubborn and or too stupid.

Hopefully now that RW is in his 4th year, and gotten his big contract he will decide to take over games sooner.

With this O-line if our OC goes with his usual BS during the Rams game RW will be a sitting duck in the pocket.

Nice post. I agree completely.

 

[WilsonMVP]

I like Teddy Bridgewater just fine (and living in Kentucky I have no choice but to be familiar with him), but he ain't got a better anything than Wilson.

He moves better in the Pocket than Wilson does and steps up in it...That is one of the few things Wilson needs to work on. They both have pretty bad Olines. Both have Top RBs in AP and Lynch. Vikings D is improving and on its way up. Seahawks D is one of the best ever. I would say receiving options are about equal. Probably give a slight edge to Seahawks with the addition of Jimmy

Both were forced into action their rookie year. Wilson has always got to play with Lynch though. This will be the first time Teddy and AP play together. Teddy will turn 23 in November (Wilson turns 27 in Nov). Fun fact Wilson will be 27 with Matt Stafford until he turns 28 in Feb. During next offseason Teddy will be the same age Wilson was his rookie year

I think both guys will be great QBs in this league. Franchise Type QBs.

 

[hawknation2015]

Re: Is Russell Wilson a pocket passer ?

Yes.

 

[gargantual]

He's anything and everything he wants and needs to be.

Anything he puts his mind to.

 

[bigwrm]

Whether or not he is a "pocket passer" is semantics but he is clearly less comfortable throwing from the pocket and scrambles at the first opportunity. It's not a bad thing, just a different style than most qbs and one that is neccessitated by his height. You can count on one hand the number of times he actually steps up into a pocket in any given game. It's not just the o-line. Russell may have a great passer rating from inside the pocket but that's partially a function of him only being willing to throw under ideal circumstances. He'll always do the most damage from outside the pocket.

 

[Tical21]

He is as far from a pocket passer as anyone in the league. Just because he can pass from the pocket doesn't mean he's a pocket passer. A pocket passer is someone who almost exclusively passes from the pocket, by definition.

A true pocket passer would never, not even once in his entire career, have a play where he had all day to throw, and all four of his receivers in the route were blissfully open, and choose to instead hold onto the ball and keep patting it while waiting for the pass rush so he could try to dance out of it. Not once in their entire career. Not once.

 

[hawknation2015]

Wilson has a strong arm. He can comfortably push the ball down either sideline while controlling the velocity and trajectory of his passes. Fitting the ball into tight windows is vitally important for any pocket passer in the NFL because he needs to work the middle of the field.

Attacking the shorter section of the middle of the field is typically easier to do than working between the two safeties farther downfield.

Underneath coverage can be picked apart with just accuracy and arm strength. It takes more control and intelligence to push the ball farther downfield because the ball must travel farther, go over underneath defenders and get between faster secondary players as opposed to slower linebackers.

Quarterbacks who can throw with anticipation are able to push the ball to spots before any defender can read where it is going. Considering how fast defensive backs are in the NFL, often the quarterback still needs to place passes perfectly to have any chance at completing them, even when thrown with anticipation.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2521 ... ket-passer

 

[Anthony!]

I like Teddy Bridgewater just fine (and living in Kentucky I have no choice but to be familiar with him), but he ain't got a better anything than Wilson.

He moves better in the Pocket than Wilson does and steps up in it...That is one of the few things Wilson needs to work on. They both have pretty bad Olines. Both have Top RBs in AP and Lynch. Vikings D is improving and on its way up. Seahawks D is one of the best ever. I would say receiving options are about equal. Probably give a slight edge to Seahawks with the addition of Jimmy

Both were forced into action their rookie year. Wilson has always got to play with Lynch though. This will be the first time Teddy and AP play together. Teddy will turn 23 in November (Wilson turns 27 in Nov). Fun fact Wilson will be 27 with Matt Stafford until he turns 28 in Feb. During next offseason Teddy will be the same age Wilson was his rookie year

I think both guys will be great QBs in this league. Franchise Type QBs.

agree with some, disagree with others. we will see.

 

[Anthony!]

Whether or not he is a "pocket passer" is semantics but he is clearly less comfortable throwing from the pocket and scrambles at the first opportunity. It's not a bad thing, just a different style than most qbs and one that is neccessitated by his height. You can count on one hand the number of times he actually steps up into a pocket in any given game. It's not just the o-line. Russell may have a great passer rating from inside the pocket but that's partially a function of him only being willing to throw under ideal circumstances. He'll always do the most damage from outside the pocket.

let me guess the eye test, sure is not the facts.

 

[Anthony!]

Wilson has a strong arm. He can comfortably push the ball down either sideline while controlling the velocity and trajectory of his passes. Fitting the ball into tight windows is vitally important for any pocket passer in the NFL because he needs to work the middle of the field.

Attacking the shorter section of the middle of the field is typically easier to do than working between the two safeties farther downfield.

Underneath coverage can be picked apart with just accuracy and arm strength. It takes more control and intelligence to push the ball farther downfield because the ball must travel farther, go over underneath defenders and get between faster secondary players as opposed to slower linebackers.

Quarterbacks who can throw with anticipation are able to push the ball to spots before any defender can read where it is going. Considering how fast defensive backs are in the NFL, often the quarterback still needs to place passes perfectly to have any chance at completing them, even when thrown with anticipation.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2521 ... ket-passer

Pretty cut and dry and is supported by facts, debate ended

 

[hawknation2015]

The best part of that article was the breakdown of the way Wilson diagnoses blitzes and makes pre-snap reads.

Against the Green Bay Packers in last year's NFC Championship Game, the game-winning touchdown pass was the result of Wilson recognizing the coverage the defense was playing based on pre-snap motion and alignment.

Wilson initially surveys the defense as he approaches his center. Before the offense is set, he turns to his fullback and gestures before pointing toward the left sideline. The fullback promptly runs outside of the numbers before establishing himself in the stance of a wide receiver.



The defense follows the fullback with a safety.



At this point of the play, it was clear the Packers were selling out to stop the run with no deep safety in position to play coverage. They were almost certainly in man coverage outside with no help deep. Wilson audibled, as you can see in the above image, to take advantage of this coverage.

In the quarterback's own words, per Danny Kelly of SB Nation:

"Just the film study. They had brought everybody up in the box, cover zero, and I just wanted to give Jermaine Kearse a chance to go win the game and he always finds a way to do that somehow. I ... audibled the play, checked the play, and sure enough, we were able to hit Jermaine Kearse for the touchdown."

Kearse was able to score that touchdown by getting inside position against Tramon Williams down the seam. Although Kearse got positioning behind Williams, he didn't create any real separation. This meant Wilson had to drop the ball perfectly over his shoulder for the game-winning score.



This was an impressive throw, especially considering how poorly he had played throughout the first four quarters of this game.

Wilson didn't hold the ball; instead he quickly got to the top of his drop and delivered the ball instantly. The Packers had sent six defenders after the quarterback, so the Seahawks were able to account for each rusher in pass protection.

 

[Anthony!]

He is as far from a pocket passer as anyone in the league. Just because he can pass from the pocket doesn't mean he's a pocket passer. A pocket passer is someone who almost exclusively passes from the pocket, by definition.

A true pocket passer would never, not even once in his entire career, have a play where he had all day to throw, and all four of his receivers in the route were blissfully open, and choose to instead hold onto the ball and keep patting it while waiting for the pass rush so he could try to dance out of it. Not once in their entire career. Not once.

You know I actually had you foed because I got tired of reading all your BS anti Wilson crap. But I thought lets see if you changed. I guess not as everything you just wrote is more of your anti Wilson BS. You have no facts, not stats not even a link to were Wilson supposedly held unto the ball all day while all of his Wr were wide open at the same time. Just more BS, Thankfully the facts and stats show you are still wrong. By the way please show me were this definition is of a pocket passer. Almost exclusively form the pocket. Lets look at that for a minute

So Luck is considered a pocket passer yet only 89% of his attempts came from the pocket, Oppps I guess Luck is not a pocket passer either.

Hmm seems like your definition is wrong and cannot be found anyplace so it is also made up.

You see though Wilson does through a decent amount out side the pocket, that does not mean he is not a pocket passer. He does what needs to be done, as he showed in the SB against Denver he can pick you apart from the pocket like all Elite QBs, however unlike most Elite QBS he can also pick you apart form outside the pocket. And for this team with this oline that is essential.

 

[Anthony!]

The best part of that article was the breakdown of the way Wilson diagnoses blitzes and makes pre-snap reads.

Against the Green Bay Packers in last year's NFC Championship Game, the game-winning touchdown pass was the result of Wilson recognizing the coverage the defense was playing based on pre-snap motion and alignment.

Wilson initially surveys the defense as he approaches his center. Before the offense is set, he turns to his fullback and gestures before pointing toward the left sideline. The fullback promptly runs outside of the numbers before establishing himself in the stance of a wide receiver.



The defense follows the fullback with a safety.



At this point of the play, it was clear the Packers were selling out to stop the run with no deep safety in position to play coverage. They were almost certainly in man coverage outside with no help deep. Wilson audibled, as you can see in the above image, to take advantage of this coverage.

In the quarterback's own words, per Danny Kelly of SB Nation:

"Just the film study. They had brought everybody up in the box, cover zero, and I just wanted to give Jermaine Kearse a chance to go win the game and he always finds a way to do that somehow. I ... audibled the play, checked the play, and sure enough, we were able to hit Jermaine Kearse for the touchdown."

Kearse was able to score that touchdown by getting inside position against Tramon Williams down the seam. Although Kearse got positioning behind Williams, he didn't create any real separation. This meant Wilson had to drop the ball perfectly over his shoulder for the game-winning score.



This was an impressive throw, especially considering how poorly he had played throughout the first four quarters of this game.

Wilson didn't hold the ball; instead he quickly got to the top of his drop and delivered the ball instantly. The Packers had sent six defenders after the quarterback, so the Seahawks were able to account for each rusher in pass protection.

wait a minute, he diagnosed defenses pre snap, audibled, through down field from the pocket, to a guy who was really not open, but he through him open and through the perfect pass. Wait those are the things that Tic, Spin and others say he cannot do how can this be, :sarcasm_off:

Like I said earlier Enough said he is a pocket passer when he needs and can be.

 

[c_hawkbob]

I like Teddy Bridgewater just fine (and living in Kentucky I have no choice but to be familiar with him), but he ain't got a better anything than Wilson.

He moves better in the Pocket than Wilson does and steps up in it...That is one of the few things Wilson needs to work on. They both have pretty bad Olines. Both have Top RBs in AP and Lynch. Vikings D is improving and on its way up. Seahawks D is one of the best ever. I would say receiving options are about equal. Probably give a slight edge to Seahawks with the addition of Jimmy

Both were forced into action their rookie year. Wilson has always got to play with Lynch though. This will be the first time Teddy and AP play together. Teddy will turn 23 in November (Wilson turns 27 in Nov). Fun fact Wilson will be 27 with Matt Stafford until he turns 28 in Feb. During next offseason Teddy will be the same age Wilson was his rookie year

I think both guys will be great QBs in this league. Franchise Type QBs.

I can only imagine that you must be a Louisville fan. Nobody else would argue Bridgewater to be Wilson's equal.

 

[RiverDog]

Whether or not he is a "pocket passer" is semantics but he is clearly less comfortable throwing from the pocket and scrambles at the first opportunity. It's not a bad thing, just a different style than most qbs and one that is neccessitated by his height. You can count on one hand the number of times he actually steps up into a pocket in any given game. It's not just the o-line. Russell may have a great passer rating from inside the pocket but that's partially a function of him only being willing to throw under ideal circumstances. He'll always do the most damage from outside the pocket.

Wilson doesn't scramble at the first opportunity. He scrambles to avoid sacks and extend plays. I'll agree that he has the tendency to break the pocket rather than step up into it and there are going to be times when this trait will result in him running into a sack that otherwise might not have happened. Scrambling quarterbacks are a nightmare for an offensive line to block for, but they're also a nightmare for DC's to scheme for. So long as he keeps his eyes downfield and looks for an opportunity as he generally does, I have no problem with him breaking the pocket vs. stepping up into it. I trust his judgment.

Later in his career when his running ability diminishes and as our offense changes, he may have to adjust his style. But at the moment, particularly with the horrible state of affairs our OL is in, Russell is the best quarterback in the league for our team.

 

[WilsonMVP]

I like Teddy Bridgewater just fine (and living in Kentucky I have no choice but to be familiar with him), but he ain't got a better anything than Wilson.

He moves better in the Pocket than Wilson does and steps up in it...That is one of the few things Wilson needs to work on. They both have pretty bad Olines. Both have Top RBs in AP and Lynch. Vikings D is improving and on its way up. Seahawks D is one of the best ever. I would say receiving options are about equal. Probably give a slight edge to Seahawks with the addition of Jimmy

Both were forced into action their rookie year. Wilson has always got to play with Lynch though. This will be the first time Teddy and AP play together. Teddy will turn 23 in November (Wilson turns 27 in Nov). Fun fact Wilson will be 27 with Matt Stafford until he turns 28 in Feb. During next offseason Teddy will be the same age Wilson was his rookie year

I think both guys will be great QBs in this league. Franchise Type QBs.

I can only imagine that you must be a Louisville fan. Nobody else would argue Bridgewater to be Wilson's equal.

Never said they were equal right now but Idk how anyone can argue Teddy is worse at moving around in the Pocket than Wilson. Its basically Wilsons only flaw. Instead of moving up in the pocket he will usually move out. The Vikings Oline is just as bad as the Seahawks. They had 3 starters on Oline out last year, 3rd string RB, 2nd string TE and their best WR was from the browns practice squad..

 

[c_hawkbob]

I like Teddy Bridgewater just fine (and living in Kentucky I have no choice but to be familiar with him), but he ain't got a better anything than Wilson.

He moves better in the Pocket than Wilson does and steps up in it...That is one of the few things Wilson needs to work on. They both have pretty bad Olines. Both have Top RBs in AP and Lynch. Vikings D is improving and on its way up. Seahawks D is one of the best ever. I would say receiving options are about equal. Probably give a slight edge to Seahawks with the addition of Jimmy

Both were forced into action their rookie year. Wilson has always got to play with Lynch though. This will be the first time Teddy and AP play together. Teddy will turn 23 in November (Wilson turns 27 in Nov). Fun fact Wilson will be 27 with Matt Stafford until he turns 28 in Feb. During next offseason Teddy will be the same age Wilson was his rookie year

I think both guys will be great QBs in this league. Franchise Type QBs.

I can only imagine that you must be a Louisville fan. Nobody else would argue Bridgewater to be Wilson's equal.

Never said they were equal right now but Idk how anyone can argue Teddy is worse at moving around in the Pocket than Wilson. Its basically Wilsons only flaw. Instead of moving up in the pocket he will usually move out. The Vikings Oline is just as bad as the Seahawks. They had 3 starters on Oline out last year, 3rd string RB, 2nd string TE and their best WR was from the browns practice squad..

So you are a Louisville fan then? You from hereabouts? You go to school there?

Wilson moves around in the pocket just fine. If he doesn't step up in the pocket it's because our pocket has a chronically soft front: it collapses from the front almost as often as from the edges. And if he does sidestep instead of step forward (I can't imagine why one would be more important to you than the other) he does so with eyes downfield looking to his relievers. It's one of his most remarkable (and remarked upon, I can't believe you've missed it) attributes: his tendency to move to the side or backwards to extend the play as a passing opportunity first, as opposed to breaking the pocket as a ball carrier right off the bat as is the tendency of most mobile QBs.

 

[RiverDog]

Never said they were equal right now but Idk how anyone can argue Teddy is worse at moving around in the Pocket than Wilson. Its basically Wilsons only flaw. Instead of moving up in the pocket he will usually move out. The Vikings Oline is just as bad as the Seahawks. They had 3 starters on Oline out last year, 3rd string RB, 2nd string TE and their best WR was from the browns practice squad..

It would be a flaw if you're not a threat to run, say if you were someone like Peyton, Worthlessburger, Rivers, etc. But Russell is the best running quarterback in the league, and for him to break the pocket is a plus, not a minus. He gets into the open and all of a sudden, linebackers are faced with a decision...leave their man and close in on Wilson or hang back and give him an easy first down.

 

[Anthony!]

So I got a private email, from a certain person on this forum, who made it clear again that Wilson is not a pocket passer, however he also said neither is Luck as he runs to much. So it appears his definition of pocket passer is a one dimensional QB who can only do one thing, Throw from the pocket. So using that I thought I would see how many true "pocket Passer" by his definition there are. So Any Qb who gest over 97% of their yards form the pocket Qualifies as that would equate to " almost exclusively "

P Manning


Thats all folks Just P. Manning playing behind his top 5 pass blocking oline. SO nope sorry Rodgers not a pocket Passer, Brady not a pocket passer, etc etc. Now that we know that definition is stupid lets try a real one.

All that said seems to me a 1 dimensional QB is not what one would want, and it would be far more important to have a person who is by a real definition of a pocket passer as your QB. Definition being that he can make all the throws from the pocket and does when there is a pocket. To me if you get over 75% of your yards form the pocket you are a pocket passer but more importantly your a real multi dimensional QB.