Is Mahomes better than Wilson?

[lukerguy]

Probably but it's hard to say because Reid's system is so good. Look at Alex Smith the year before he left; he had similar numbers to Mahomes.

 

[JayhawkMike]

If they switched teams I think that Wilson hits Mahomes numbers on the Chiefs but Mahomes doesn’t hit Wilson’s numbers on the Seahawks

It seems like the implication of most responses is that the Chiefs coaching, system and players are better than the Seahawks. Today that is true.

 

[evergreen]

My first answer is Yes! He is unbelievable almost all the time. But let's look at last year. Wilson was just as good and we beat them here. Clearly PM's team is far more talented. The biggest difference is our coach is a defensive coach and there's is a great offensive coach. But you really see how much better Wilson can be when running around. That's what we needed to do in the first half against GB.

 

[MO Hawk]

I love Mahomes, but the comparisons are silly when Russell has Chris Carson, Lockett, a rookie WR and 2nd and 3rd string TE's to work with................AND the worst pass pro O-line in the entire league.

So let's revisit this comparison after KC has to give Mahomes 40M a year and doesn't have 100M of their cap space to spend on their O-line and all those weapons on offense.

Yes Mahomes is special, there's no denying that. But I don't like these conversations when it's apples and oranges cap wise, scheme wise and surrounding talent.

That is exactly right, BUT, we have never had a great OL for Wilson even in his 1st for years while his contract was relatively cheap. We spent that cap savings on defense. We also took Earl with a high draft pick, but Kam and Sherm were a low cap hit in their first 4 years, and Kam a huge cap hit the past 3 years.

The other issues our LONG history of INJURIES that KC doesn't have. It's like our whole season starting offense has been out for lengthy periods of time this year. At some point we need to address why we have a disproportionate amount of injuries each year that leads to Wilson taking so many hits. Maybe it's Wilson's off season and extra training that has kept him mostly free of injuries, but whatever the rest of the team is doing to stay healthy, it isn't working too well.

The big question is money allocation and when Wilson and Wagner are taking up a huge chunk of it, there isn't much left for OL and DL and when we can't seem to hit on cheaper talent (like Sherm and Kam, Metcalf being the exception) out of the draft like we did in 2012 it makes guys like Mahomes look better than Wilson because Seattle and KC aren't playing with all things being equal i.e. comparing apples and oranges.

BTW, I live 2 hrs from KC and have watched them do what Seattle has failed to do, and as the OP here I WISH Wilson got the same opportunity that Mahomes has. Because Seattle laid an egg the past 6 weeks of the season and because they are out...GO CHIEFS! (my 2nd favorite team, and because I hate the 49ers)

 

[thegameq]

I love Mahomes, but the comparisons are silly when Russell has Chris Carson, Lockett, a rookie WR and 2nd and 3rd string TE's to work with................AND the worst pass pro O-line in the entire league.

So let's revisit this comparison after KC has to give Mahomes 40M a year and doesn't have 100M of their cap space to spend on their O-line and all those weapons on offense.

Yes Mahomes is special, there's no denying that. But I don't like these conversations when it's apples and oranges cap wise, scheme wise and surrounding talent.

This

Agreed. Not knocking Mahomes, but let's see how well he does when the talent around him falls off. Can he carry a less than spectacular offensive roster with an average o-line?

That said, I don't follow the Chiefs to know how good he is at reading defenses, etc.compared to Russell....

 

[TreeRon]

How are we going to see in two weeks? Are they lining up side by side, with the same players on O and D?
The answer is NO so we won't see in two weeks.

 

[John63]

How are we going to see in two weeks? Are they lining up side by side, with the same players on O and D?
The answer is NO so we won't see in two weeks.

Exactly, it is near impossible to really compare to players on different teams. The only true way would be if they each had the exact same team around them, playing the exact same system, and the exact same schedule. Which will never happen.

 

[iigakusei]

Who cares - they are both awesome.

 

[AROS]

Show me what Mahomes would do with the same OL and coaching deficiencies Russ has had to deal with for the past 8 years and then we can talk.

 

[JayhawkMike]

Show me what Mahomes would do with the same OL and coaching deficiencies Russ has had to deal with for the past 8 years and then we can talk.

Using that logic you can never ever compare any player to any other player. Yes, Pete is the only one who can effectively shut down Russ. Better than any defense for about half or more of every game. I pick Mahomes because he’s willing to run while there are no RPOs for Wilson anymore. Russ’s touch and passing were awesome this year though. Better than some years of overthrowing really short passes.

 

[John63]

Show me what Mahomes would do with the same OL and coaching deficiencies Russ has had to deal with for the past 8 years and then we can talk.

Using that logic you can never ever compare any player to any other player. Yes, Pete is the only one who can effectively shut down Russ. Better than any defense for about half or more of every game. I pick Mahomes because he’s willing to run while there are no RPOs for Wilson anymore. Russ’s touch and passing were awesome this year though. Better than some years of overthrowing really short passes.

Yes and Mahomes missed 3 games this year, and who knows how many in coming years while Wilson has missed NONE. If you are not available to play it will not matter how good you are.

 

[joeseahawks]

I'm one of those who believe that we might never know how great Wilson could have been, because he has a coach whose thinking has completely hamstrung his best player.
Coaches are getting paid to build the team that maximizes the talent of their best players. For me, it is as simple as that.
Andy Reid has done that. I hope Pete is not too old to learn.

 

[IndyHawk]

Show me what Mahomes would do with the same OL and coaching deficiencies Russ has had to deal with for the past 8 years and then we can talk.

Using that logic you can never ever compare any player to any other player. Yes, Pete is the only one who can effectively shut down Russ. Better than any defense for about half or more of every game. I pick Mahomes because he’s willing to run while there are no RPOs for Wilson anymore. Russ’s touch and passing were awesome this year though. Better than some years of overthrowing really short passes.

Yes and Mahomes missed 3 games this year, and who knows how many in coming years while Wilson has missed NONE. If you are not available to play it will not matter how good you are.

Someone in one of posts said PM is bigger than RW..I don't get that
or see that at all..Correct that RW has never missed one game but bigger
PM has missed multiple..He only has one thing over RW and that is maybe
a little stronger arm?Should be as he is over 6 years or so younger.
Oh I forgot he has that extra step of speed that he will lose just like RW
did after 3-4 yrs.

 

[scutterhawk]

I think RW is slightly better but not by much. Mahomes however looks much better because he’s not handcuffed.

AND, it doesn't hurt that Andy Reid ( like Mike Holmgren) is Offensive minded, and a Quarterback FIRST Coach eh?
Wilson has been winging it with a Head Coach that is known for his Defensive mindset, & building a Run Blocking O-Line for his run first Offensive mindset......Wilson has played in two consecutive Super Bowls, & Winning one....and if not for a beat up Defense allowing ThomASS Brady to erase a 10 point cushion, would have won the Seahawks their second.
OH AND, Wilson hasn't missed one single game due to injury like Mahomes has.

 

[Hawkpower]

I see a fairly strong consensus of: similar athleticism, Mahomes has a better arm.

If thats the case, who cares what system they are playing in? The question wasn't who would put up better stats.

The question was who is the better QB.

If Mahomes is showing to be similar in all ways but has a better arm, seems like offensive philosophy, o line, etc are mute points if we are just deciding who is better at playing the position.

If Mahomes was playing for Pete, he would still be super athletic and he would still have the better arm.

If you want to jump on yet another opportunity to yell about poor Russ being hamstrung, change the question.

 

[John63]

I see a fairly strong consensus of: similar athleticism, Mahomes has a better arm.

If thats the case, who cares what system they are playing in? The question wasn't who would put up better stats.

The question was who is the better QB.

If Mahomes is showing to be similar in all ways but has a better arm, seems like offensive philosophy, o line, etc are mute points if we are just deciding who is better at playing the position.

If Mahomes was playing for Pete, he would still be super athletic and he would still have the better arm.

If you want to jump on yet another opportunity to yell about poor Russ being hamstrung, change the question.

Well then the question is does he have the better arm.and if so. Y how much and doe that matter. A better question is can they make all the throws? The answer is yes. So maybe the answer is they are even.

 

[HawkerD]

We are always comparing QBs on here so to say apples to oranges or now is not the time is disingenuous. PM is an incredible talent and KC is fortunate to have him. Seems like a great guy and teammate. You can rationalize it either way. I love me some RW but I’d take PM in a second just for the youth factor.

Right now PM will look better because he is in the better offense. The offense is built around him unlike the Hawks offense which claims to built around the run yet has consistently had one of the worst OLs in the NFL.

 

[Scorpion05]

Most talented Quarterbacks in terms of arm talent I’ve ever seen:

- Mahomes, by far
- Dan Marino
- Aaron Rodgers
- Brett Favre
- John Elway
- Jay Cutler
- Michael Vick


Best Quarterbacks I’ve ever seen


- Peyton Manning
- Tom Brady
- Russell Wilson



Mahomes is extremely talented. From an arm talent stand point, he can do things Wilson can’t do. And yet I still think Wilson is the better QUARTERBACK. Big difference.

Jay Cutler was a terrible quarterback. But man, did I love watching that guy throw. Straight out of a cannon, I would just marvel at the zip on his ball that would fall into the hands of a defender :lol:

Wilson 2.0, which is essentially post-2015 Wilson is a very cerebral QB. He dissects defenses, he creates plays out of nothing. What people think are sandlot plays are way more structured than people think. His instincts are out of this world. He doesn’t have the GOLDEN arm, like Rodgers, like Mahomes. But he stresses a defense even with very little around him. He makes accurate throws, he changes plays. He’s proven under Schotty he can play in structure.

Mahomes is in a great situation. He has Andy Reid, who may be the best offensive playcaller of all time. He not only has weapons, Next Gen Stats say his receivers have the most yards of separation. When I watch Mahomes I see accuracy and a great arm, but I’m not blown away by pure QB play. I see Reid’s scheme completely confusing defenses. Fake reverses and screens with Hill, the best TE in the league finding soft spots in zone.

In summary, I just don’t see great QB play like I saw with Manning, and now Wilson. Maybe I’m biased, I think Mahomes will go down as an all time great. Like Marino, and Rodgers. But not a master of the QB position like Manning, Brady, Wilson, and you can maybe even throw Brees in there.

 

[Scorpion05]

I see a fairly strong consensus of: similar athleticism, Mahomes has a better arm.

If thats the case, who cares what system they are playing in? The question wasn't who would put up better stats.

The question was who is the better QB.

If Mahomes is showing to be similar in all ways but has a better arm, seems like offensive philosophy, o line, etc are mute points if we are just deciding who is better at playing the position.

If Mahomes was playing for Pete, he would still be super athletic and he would still have the better arm.

If you want to jump on yet another opportunity to yell about poor Russ being hamstrung, change the question.

Well then the question is does he have the better arm.and if so. Y how much and doe that matter. A better question is can they make all the throws? The answer is yes. So maybe the answer is they are even.

I love Russ, but Mahomes’ arm is so talented, that he can drop 10 yards deep and flick the ball 70 yards. He can make throws from crazy platforms. So can Russ, but it’s simply not the same.

What Russ does have over Mahomes, is his ability to read/dissect defenses, create his own pocket, and work within chaos. He calls run plays, something I hardly see Mahomes do. He’s made tight window throws I’ve never seen Mahomes make. And to make sure I’m not making that up I try to watch as much Mahomes games as possible. Arm talent is great, but Russ has ball placement, leadership, and decision making in abundance. Mahomes is so talented, that like many of the QBs before him it’s hard to not rely on it. When you know you’re rich, it’s hard to get up and have the same hunger as someone with their back against the wall (like too short Wilson, too non-athletic Brady).

It’s kind of the Michael Jordan vs Lebron debate. Jordan is the most skilled, but Lebron is the most physically gifted and is better at more things than Jordan. Jordan also had the elite coach. But Lebron is a poor free throw shooter, he’s never had to be great at it because he’s great at so many other things. Doesn’t matter, the argument will go on forever, with people making an argument for each.

Great arm talents like Mahomes, Rodgers, etc. rely on their arms, and don’t have to do the things that a Brady, Manning, Wilson, or Brees have to do. Rodgers is falling off, because he’s aging and with that so does his arm. Wilson, like Brady will have the longevity because they had to. Dan Orlovsky, who I rarely agree with said Wilson is the best football player he’s ever seen and it’s not a farfetched argument.

Russell might go down the most well rounded QB of all time. The Lebron of the NFL, but hopefully with enough rings to match.

 

[chris98251]

Russell has great arm, he is also more accurate, Elway had a cannon, then so did Joe Gilliam and Terry Bradshaw who played at the same time and same team, you can have a arm but without learning nuances and situations and how to use your head it's a wasted attribute. Coaches loved Elways arm so much they let him dictate games with it, until he got older and had a Shanahan coaching that gave him a balanced attack and a stricter game plan he was a great highlight but no Super Bowls wins.