IMO, the only flaw in Pete's philosophy

[SpokaneHawks]

Is also the biggest flaw in this team right now. We need a fresh cycle of underpaid, hungry, players that have been looked past and have that chip on their shoulder that our stars used to have. When Pete and John first started turning these cast aways into stars, that's what they were looking for, players with something to prove. IMO, that's the problem, these guys eventually got paid, and lost that competitive edge. We were a much better team before the big name guys got paid and comfortable. IMO, should have kept some veterans paid and let some walk while we built new stars. Since 2012/2013 we've kind of just kept these guys around and, IMO, some of them have gotten the ring and are still being rewarded for it. At USC Pete always had a refresh of hungry players trying to make a name as some graduated or were drafted. This, also IMO, is his downfall.

 

[MontanaHawk05]

Is also the biggest flaw in this team right now. We need a fresh cycle of underpaid, hungry, players that have been looked past and have that chip on their shoulder that our stars used to have. When Pete and John first started turning these cast aways into stars, that's what they were looking for, players with something to prove. IMO, that's the problem, these guys eventually got paid, and lost that competitive edge. We were a much better team before the big name guys got paid and comfortable. IMO, should have kept some veterans paid and let some walk while we built new stars. Since 2012/2013 we've kind of just kept these guys around and, IMO, some of them have gotten the ring and are still being rewarded for it. At USC Pete always had a refresh of hungry players trying to make a name as some graduated or were drafted. This, also IMO, is his downfall.

I am not going to, and never will, appeal to unprovable intangibles like this when assessing this season. It makes a lot more sense to just chalk it down to an injury year.

 

[rossob]

He did that this year with getting McDougald, Dion Jordan, Marcus Smith, Branden Jackson, Coleman and the guys we drafted (Nazair, Quinton, McDowell, 3 safeties, Griffin). We also drafted a RB and 2 WRs and we still have Reed and Clark.

 

[Seymour]

How are we going to do that when we literally waste 16 draft picks on bad olinemen alone during Pete's time here? From there look at our top draft picks and how many misses we have in the upper rounds. It would also be cool to draft a top 10 RB too, how has that gone?

 

[Uncle Si]

Is also the biggest flaw in this team right now. We need a fresh cycle of underpaid, hungry, players that have been looked past and have that chip on their shoulder that our stars used to have. When Pete and John first started turning these cast aways into stars, that's what they were looking for, players with something to prove. IMO, that's the problem, these guys eventually got paid, and lost that competitive edge. We were a much better team before the big name guys got paid and comfortable. IMO, should have kept some veterans paid and let some walk while we built new stars. Since 2012/2013 we've kind of just kept these guys around and, IMO, some of them have gotten the ring and are still being rewarded for it. At USC Pete always had a refresh of hungry players trying to make a name as some graduated or were drafted. This, also IMO, is his downfall.

I am not going to, and never will, appeal to unprovable intangibles like this when assessing this season. It makes a lot more sense to just chalk it down to an injury year.

I think these are both good points, and both probably why the team is where they are at the moment..

and where we are is not terrible. The team is not awful, but needs some invigoration

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Is also the biggest flaw in this team right now. We need a fresh cycle of underpaid, hungry, players that have been looked past and have that chip on their shoulder that our stars used to have. When Pete and John first started turning these cast aways into stars, that's what they were looking for, players with something to prove. IMO, that's the problem, these guys eventually got paid, and lost that competitive edge. We were a much better team before the big name guys got paid and comfortable. IMO, should have kept some veterans paid and let some walk while we built new stars. Since 2012/2013 we've kind of just kept these guys around and, IMO, some of them have gotten the ring and are still being rewarded for it. At USC Pete always had a refresh of hungry players trying to make a name as some graduated or were drafted. This, also IMO, is his downfall.

I am not going to, and never will, appeal to unprovable intangibles like this when assessing this season. It makes a lot more sense to just chalk it down to an injury year.

But the very reason there are so many injuries speaks to the OP's point.

BECAUSE Pete and John failed to re-load their young hungry defense through the draft, they were forced to overpay their aging vets AND forced to overpay free agents through trades and signings.

I said this in September when I asked if there's ever been a dominant OLD defense. Well.............I think we figured out the answer. No.

Bottom line, if Pete's core philosophy is to stack his defense with young, hungry, nasty physical players and run the ball? Then he's failed miserably the past 2-3 years in maintaining that philosophy.

 

[HawkerD]

I am sure he would have loved to do that except they have failed miserably in the Draft for the last 5 Drafts. In another forum some one posted we have had 46 draft picks and only ONE pro bowl appearance (Lockett - Special Teams). By any measure that is horrid performance in terms of talent acquisition.

 

[rossob]

Is also the biggest flaw in this team right now. We need a fresh cycle of underpaid, hungry, players that have been looked past and have that chip on their shoulder that our stars used to have. When Pete and John first started turning these cast aways into stars, that's what they were looking for, players with something to prove. IMO, that's the problem, these guys eventually got paid, and lost that competitive edge. We were a much better team before the big name guys got paid and comfortable. IMO, should have kept some veterans paid and let some walk while we built new stars. Since 2012/2013 we've kind of just kept these guys around and, IMO, some of them have gotten the ring and are still being rewarded for it. At USC Pete always had a refresh of hungry players trying to make a name as some graduated or were drafted. This, also IMO, is his downfall.

I am not going to, and never will, appeal to unprovable intangibles like this when assessing this season. It makes a lot more sense to just chalk it down to an injury year.

But the very reason there are so many injuries speaks to the OP's point.

BECAUSE Pete and John failed to re-load their young hungry defense through the draft, they were forced to overpay their aging vets AND forced to overpay free agents through trades and signings.

I said this in September when I asked if there's ever been a dominant OLD defense. Well.............I think we figured out the answer. No.

Bottom line, if Pete's core philosophy is to stack his defense with young, hungry, nasty physical players and run the ball? Then he's failed miserably the past 2-3 years in maintaining that philosophy.

True but the problem here lies more in wanting to keep the #1 D imo.
The likelihood of getting the next Sherman, Earl or Kam in the draft is close to zero. Especially if you always pick in the late rounds. So they have to decide whether they want a better D with their proven guys or risk replacing them. Of course there will come a time where our overpaid starters will not or only marginally be better than cheaper players.

 

[MontanaHawk05]

Is also the biggest flaw in this team right now. We need a fresh cycle of underpaid, hungry, players that have been looked past and have that chip on their shoulder that our stars used to have. When Pete and John first started turning these cast aways into stars, that's what they were looking for, players with something to prove. IMO, that's the problem, these guys eventually got paid, and lost that competitive edge. We were a much better team before the big name guys got paid and comfortable. IMO, should have kept some veterans paid and let some walk while we built new stars. Since 2012/2013 we've kind of just kept these guys around and, IMO, some of them have gotten the ring and are still being rewarded for it. At USC Pete always had a refresh of hungry players trying to make a name as some graduated or were drafted. This, also IMO, is his downfall.

I am not going to, and never will, appeal to unprovable intangibles like this when assessing this season. It makes a lot more sense to just chalk it down to an injury year.

But the very reason there are so many injuries speaks to the OP's point.

BECAUSE Pete and John failed to re-load their young hungry defense through the draft, they were forced to overpay their aging vets AND forced to overpay free agents through trades and signings.

I said this in September when I asked if there's ever been a dominant OLD defense. Well.............I think we figured out the answer. No.

Bottom line, if Pete's core philosophy is to stack his defense with young, hungry, nasty physical players and run the ball? Then he's failed miserably the past 2-3 years in maintaining that philosophy.

This is just as falsifiable as the OP's point, which is to say, not very. There isn't a person on this board who thinks the Rams hang 42 on us with Kam, Sherman, Avril, and a healthy Wagner on the field - probably because they didn't in Week 5, in THEIR house. If they do, it's probably partially because the offense's problems and Jon Ryan's poor punting allowed the Rams to keep starting drives in Seattle territory - something that isn't getting a lot of mention around here.

I'll harp all day on Pete's offensive philosophy. But the defense, no, I can't see that. We reloaded this year, we've committed a lot of draft stock to DB prospects, and we've picked up a lot of DL players along the way. It hasn't been anything like total neglect.

Let's stick to what's tangible. Like McEvoy fumbling. Or Graham turning back into a drop machine. Or the constant OL penalties that keep sabotaging our drives. Those are provable. What you guys are saying, isn't.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

The likelihood of getting the next Sherman, Earl or Kam in the draft is close to zero.

The Allen should ask for Pete and John's resignation. If they no longer think they can scout and find the next group of young players? Then yes it's time for a coaching/GM change.

Just continuing to cling to the past hoping these players can regain their form of dominance and plugging the rest of the roster with overpriced free agents? That's no way to win, as we've found out these last 2-3 years.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

I'll harp all day on Pete's offensive philosophy. But the defense, no, I can't see that. We reloaded this year, we've committed a lot of draft stock to DB prospects, and we've picked up a lot of DL players along the way. It hasn't been anything like total neglect.

No, but when your core is old, especially on defense there's ZERO chance of them staying healthy enough throughout a 16 game season and the playoffs...........and that's exactly what Pete and John have tried to do, and it ain't working.

That's what has created this wild inconsistency, on both sides of the ball. No identity, no consistency, no continuity.

 

[Boycie]

Is also the biggest flaw in this team right now. We need a fresh cycle of underpaid, hungry, players that have been looked past and have that chip on their shoulder that our stars used to have. When Pete and John first started turning these cast aways into stars, that's what they were looking for, players with something to prove. IMO, that's the problem, these guys eventually got paid, and lost that competitive edge. We were a much better team before the big name guys got paid and comfortable. IMO, should have kept some veterans paid and let some walk while we built new stars. Since 2012/2013 we've kind of just kept these guys around and, IMO, some of them have gotten the ring and are still being rewarded for it. At USC Pete always had a refresh of hungry players trying to make a name as some graduated or were drafted. This, also IMO, is his downfall.

Part of Pete's early success was he had first hand knowledge of a lot of these rookies coming up because he either coached against them, or recruited them.

He has been out of the college game for a long time now, and he doesn't have the same first hand knowledge that he did when he first got here.

 

[SpokaneHawks]

I think too many fans hold onto a players "glory days" for too long. I, myself cheer for the team not the individuals. I say, if a player isn't producing or is slowing, then it's time to find his replacement. And to the fans that thjnk it's impossible to find the next Kam, Sherman, Earl, or whoever your favorite player is. You do realize that's Pete and John's job, to keep a supply of great players. Those guys are the best we have right now, they are not the best ever, nor will they be. There will always be somebody better, always! To keep success going in the NFL you've got to be able to continue finding those players. People age, let go and find some new bucks, while keeping some veterans that are willing to put the egos aside and teach.

 

[adeltaY]

Is also the biggest flaw in this team right now. We need a fresh cycle of underpaid, hungry, players that have been looked past and have that chip on their shoulder that our stars used to have. When Pete and John first started turning these cast aways into stars, that's what they were looking for, players with something to prove. IMO, that's the problem, these guys eventually got paid, and lost that competitive edge. We were a much better team before the big name guys got paid and comfortable. IMO, should have kept some veterans paid and let some walk while we built new stars. Since 2012/2013 we've kind of just kept these guys around and, IMO, some of them have gotten the ring and are still being rewarded for it. At USC Pete always had a refresh of hungry players trying to make a name as some graduated or were drafted. This, also IMO, is his downfall.

I am not going to, and never will, appeal to unprovable intangibles like this when assessing this season. It makes a lot more sense to just chalk it down to an injury year.

We did that last year with Earl and Russ. The team did not look good even when fully healthy and those losses to the Titans and GB early in the season support that notion. The team has had one game all year where all phases played well start to finish and that was the Eagles game.

Take the Chargers, for instance. Their 2015 and 2016 seasons were marred by injuries all over the place. You could definitely argue the injuries took them out of contention. This year, they've been very healthy and play in one of the worst divisions in the NFL and.... they start 0-4 and lose this week against the Chiefs in a must-win game for the division. Perhaps their issues are deeper than health? It's not a perfect comparison, but it's worth considering.

 

[TwistedHusky]

Pete depends on having better players than the other team. He is not really a great strategy or tactician guy.

This works because he had a system to find and develop raw talent overlooked by other teams.

But it isn't a sustainable system because you are relying on being smarter than other organizations that have pretty smart people themselves.

He does have a good system for moving people forward and extracting contributions toward the group goal. But he stopped using that as well.

Ultimately, if he cannot field teams that outathlete the other team - he is often overmatched.

 

[smashmouth59]

I would never share a beer with someone who gives up this early.

 

[Smellyman]

missed it by that much

 

[AgentDib]

We were a much better team before the big name guys got paid

You don't need to stretch for the complacency angle. Getting paid makes a huge difference on it's own. In 2013 we had ~$80 million worth of rookie talent playing for ~$20 million on rookie deals. That gave us tons of salary cap room to bolster the rest of the team. Now everybody is getting paid and we're borrowing money from the future to keep us in contention with all the injuries.

We don't need to burn anything down, we just need to get contributions from players on rookie contracts next year. That's been the key to the Eagles, Saints, Vikings, and Rams seasons so far this year.

 

[Russ Willstrong]

Pete and JS do continue to look for young talents who have "chips on their shoulders". Unfortunately we get ultra talented guys like Malik McDowell and Christine Michael who lack maturity. Then you get DOGs who don't know sportsmanship and can't keep their head in yhe game.
IMO Pete's biggest flaw is that Pete thinks he can guide them all to become better players and mature men by letting them be themselves.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Pete and JS do continue to look for young talents who have "chips on their shoulders". Unfortunately we get ultra talented guys like Malik McDowell and Christine Michael who lack maturity. Then you get DOGs who don't know sportsmanship and can't keep their head in yhe game.
IMO Pete's biggest flaw is that Pete thinks he can guide them all to become better players and mature men by letting them be themselves.

And for the most part it's worked.

Sherman, Baldwin, Clark, Breno, Sweezy, Marshawn, Rawls, Bennett, etc.

btw, it's not like the Hawk's FO is unique with getting draft value on these types of players. Every team takes risks, sometimes it works out, and sometimes it doesn't. You just want your team's batting average on questionable character players to be high..........and I think Pete and John have done a good job for the most part.