How to resurrect Wilson's career?

[RiverDog]

Precisely. While I agree with much that is said about Wilson these days (Mr. Tone Deaf), there also tends to be some revisionist history happening. It's easy to pile on and conveniently forget all of the magic he produced for us all those years. I remember that game clearly and while yes Russ got pinged for those 4 picks, I remember being much more pissed off with Kearse for letting those catchable balls bounce off his hands. Luckily for us all he redeemed himself with that OT TD catch in the endzone.

Someone earlier in this thread said Russ mentioned being better than Brady and Manning? When did he ever say that? Sure, he always aspired to be the best to play in league history but not once did I hear him ever say he WAS better than Brady and Manning. Just another example of how easy it is to have a warped sense of the past to fit the current narrative.

I agree. The closest I've heard Russell mention being better than a HOF QB was when he talked about himself and Metcalf as "hopefully becoming a little Montana and Rice". That's pretty lame if that's what people are referring to.

 

[OrangeGravy]

Interesting that our 3rd down completion is the best it's been since 2012
meanwhile Denvers is at or near the bottom like ours was prior to this year.
That to me speaks for itself.

Take a look at where we stand at number of 3 n outs this season compared to the past 10 years and where the Broncos are at!

 

[IndyHawk]

Take a look at where we stand at number of 3 n outs this season compared to the past 10 years and where the Broncos are at!

It's what I meant but didn't put it (conversion) definately a big Russ issue.

 

[keasley45]

Precisely. While I agree with much that is said about Wilson these days (Mr. Tone Deaf), there also tends to be some revisionist history happening. It's easy to pile on and conveniently forget all of the magic he produced for us all those years. I remember that game clearly and while yes Russ got pinged for those 4 picks, I remember being much more pissed off with Kearse for letting those catchable balls bounce off his hands. Luckily for us all he redeemed himself with that OT TD catch in the endzone.

Someone earlier in this thread said Russ mentioned being better than Brady and Manning? When did he ever say that? Sure, he always aspired to be the best to play in league history but not once did I hear him ever say he WAS better than Brady and Manning. Just another example of how easy it is to have a warped sense of the past to fit the current narrative.

There's some revisionist of the revision happening here WRT the NFC CG.

Russ's first int was a ball high and inside that woukd have had to have been an outstanding catch for Kearse to have made. That pass grazed his fully outstretched arms with a defender reaching in to deflect the ball. It wasn't Kearses fault. The ball could have been placed much better.

The 2nd int was a toss up into double coverage to Kearse. No deflection and Kearse never even had a chance. Should never have been thrown.

The 3rd INT was a jump ball to the front corner of the endzone. Should have never been thrown. Defender had position. No chance for Kearse to make the play.

Of the 4, the only one that wasn't a bad throw was the 3rd one, but even in that case, Kearse was covered and Russ forced it.

And... 3 of the 4 were crosses / posts across the middle (deep and mid).

It was the most he'd ever thrown to that area of the field percentage wise, and the results were obvious.

At the time, I remember wondering whether he had an issue with the middle of the field because in the preseason that year or the year before against the Packers, he had a throw that was picked off in a similar fashion - it shouldn't have been thrown and was off target.

But in the championship game, he was 1-11. In the first half with 3 picks, all on throws that were either off target or shouldn't have left his hands.

Also worth noting, and Aikman also pointed this out during the broadcast - it was one of the first games of that era where Russ DIDNT run on any designed runs. It wqs him trying to go toe to toe with Rodgers and play pocket passer and the results were catastrophic.

If not for our punter, our kicker, Lynch and the LOB, there would have been no OT and we'd have lost that game.

 

[ZornLargentPatera]

He needs to be more like Tom Brady, more of a team player. Brady knows he's good, of course, but he's not so self-centered like Russell Wilson is. That's how he's won so many Super Bowls.

 

[olyfan63]

There's some revisionist of the revision happening here WRT the NFC CG.

Russ's first int was a ball high and inside that woukd have had to have been an outstanding catch for Kearse to have made. That pass grazed his fully outstretched arms with a defender reaching in to deflect the ball. It wasn't Kearses fault. The ball could have been placed much better.

The 2nd int was a toss up into double coverage to Kearse. No deflection and Kearse never even had a chance. Should never have been thrown.

The 3rd INT was a jump ball to the front corner of the endzone. Should have never been thrown. Defender had position. No chance for Kearse to make the play.

Of the 4, the only one that wasn't a bad throw was the 3rd one, but even in that case, Kearse was covered and Russ forced it.

And... 3 of the 4 were crosses / posts across the middle (deep and mid).

It was the most he'd ever thrown to that area of the field percentage wise, and the results were obvious.

At the time, I remember wondering whether he had an issue with the middle of the field because in the preseason that year or the year before against the Packers, he had a throw that was picked off in a similar fashion - it shouldn't have been thrown and was off target.

But in the championship game, he was 1-11. In the first half with 3 picks, all on throws that were either off target or shouldn't have left his hands.

Also worth noting, and Aikman also pointed this out during the broadcast - it was one of the first games of that era where Russ DIDNT run on any designed runs. It wqs him trying to go toe to toe with Rodgers and play pocket passer and the results were catastrophic.

If not for our punter, our kicker, Lynch and the LOB, there would have been no OT and we'd have lost that game.

Thanks for the accurate accounting of those throws! When a QB throws 4 picks and loses a fumble, that's 5 turnovers a QB has given to the opponent, and very unlikely that QB's team wins the game--only an amazing "eraser" performance from the D gives the 5-turnover team a chance to stay in the game. When Russell threw 4 picks in that game, that was THE TRUTH about who he was in that game, and no amount of sugarcoating or 3-splaining changes that FACT.

My point was the Hawks won that 2014 NFCCG DESPITE Russell Wilson, NOT because of him, and the incredible performance the the LOB in that game needs to be called out and recognized.

EDIT: Re-watched. I'd forgotten how INCREDIBLE Marshawn Lynch was in this game. LOB + Lynch won this game, though Russell was certainly clutch on that OT drive.

 

[Shanegotyou11]

There's some revisionist of the revision happening here WRT the NFC CG.

Russ's first int was a ball high and inside that woukd have had to have been an outstanding catch for Kearse to have made. That pass grazed his fully outstretched arms with a defender reaching in to deflect the ball. It wasn't Kearses fault. The ball could have been placed much better.

The 2nd int was a toss up into double coverage to Kearse. No deflection and Kearse never even had a chance. Should never have been thrown.

The 3rd INT was a jump ball to the front corner of the endzone. Should have never been thrown. Defender had position. No chance for Kearse to make the play.

Of the 4, the only one that wasn't a bad throw was the 3rd one, but even in that case, Kearse was covered and Russ forced it.

And... 3 of the 4 were crosses / posts across the middle (deep and mid).

It was the most he'd ever thrown to that area of the field percentage wise, and the results were obvious.

At the time, I remember wondering whether he had an issue with the middle of the field because in the preseason that year or the year before against the Packers, he had a throw that was picked off in a similar fashion - it shouldn't have been thrown and was off target.

But in the championship game, he was 1-11. In the first half with 3 picks, all on throws that were either off target or shouldn't have left his hands.

Also worth noting, and Aikman also pointed this out during the broadcast - it was one of the first games of that era where Russ DIDNT run on any designed runs. It wqs him trying to go toe to toe with Rodgers and play pocket passer and the results were catastrophic.

If not for our punter, our kicker, Lynch and the LOB, there would have been no OT and we'd have lost that game.

Meh. Kearse should of caught 2 of the 4 picks. 2 were horrible throws. 2 were on kearse. I mean Deion Sanders said as much as well. We know where you sit on Russ so at same time its not going to be 100% unbiased.

 

[Shanegotyou11]

Thanks for the accurate accounting of those throws! When a QB throws 4 picks and loses a fumble, that's 5 turnovers a QB has given to the opponent, and very unlikely that QB's team wins the game--only an amazing "eraser" performance from the D gives the 5-turnover team a chance to stay in the game. When Russell threw 4 picks in that game, that was THE TRUTH about who he was in that game, and no amount of sugarcoating or 3-splaining changes that FACT.

My point was the Hawks won that 2014 NFCCG DESPITE Russell Wilson, NOT because of him, and the incredible performance the the LOB in that game needs to be called out and recognized.

Lob did win the game. Facts. To act like Kearse was Jerry Rice is laughable. His target % was not that great with and without Russ. He had some amazing catches like SB and some painful drops like the SB.


Kearse dropped a dagger in the superbowl. Lob and some fans want to blame Russ or Pete. Sometimes life is just life. Russ is super close to HOF and maybe needs 1 or 2 good seasons to be a lock. Russ has issues but masked it for 90% of his career. Pete probably aslo helped this as well. Lynch also had his best numbers with Russ and Seattle.


LOB was one of the best defenses of all time. That is factual too.

Russ was disliked by some in the locker room. He was also liked. He was hated by the same guys who flipped pete off, got into fistfights with fellow teammates and said Pete was boring after a few years of the same old hoo rah.


Just because people are on "eff russ bus" these days doesnt deny what Russ did and other facts with the story.

Russ did become super egotistical but kaybe he always was. Winning protects it all and losing blows it open.

 

[olyfan63]

Lob did win the game. Facts. To act like Kearse was Jerry Rice is laughable. His target % was not that great with and without Russ. He had some amazing catches like SB and some painful drops like the SB.


Kearse dropped a dagger in the superbowl. Lob and some fans want to blame Russ or Pete. Sometimes life is just life. Russ is super close to HOF and maybe needs 1 or 2 good seasons to be a lock. Russ has issues but masked it for 90% of his career. Pete probably aslo helped this as well. Lynch also had his best numbers with Russ and Seattle.


LOB was one of the best defenses of all time. That is factual too.

Russ was disliked by some in the locker room. He was also liked. He was hated by the same guys who flipped pete off, got into fistfights with fellow teammates and said Pete was boring after a few years of the same old hoo rah.


Just because people are on "eff russ bus" these days doesnt deny what Russ did and other facts with the story.

Russ did become super egotistical but kaybe he always was. Winning protects it all and losing blows it open.

Are you talking about Kearse's 3rd down "drop" in the Super Bowl, when the Hawks were up a score or two? IIRC the NE DB got an arm in at just the last possible moment, and it didn't look like much, but it was enough to "contribute" to Kearse's "drop". Yes, a catch Kearse "should" have made, but not an outright "drop" IMO. And IIRC it certainly would have been a strategic stab at that point in time. I think of it as (it would have been) more like a crucially-timed knife slash to help the opponent bleed out, not exactly a dagger to the heart, but super-important to the outcome.

 

[Shanegotyou11]

Are you talking about Kearse's 3rd down "drop" in the Super Bowl, when the Hawks were up a score or two? IIRC the NE DB got an arm in at just the last possible moment, and it didn't look like much, but it was enough to "contribute" to Kearse's "drop". Yes, a catch Kearse "should" have made, but not an outright "drop" IMO. And IIRC it certainly would have been a strategic stab at that point in time. I think of it as (it would have been) more like a crucially-timed knife slash to help the opponent bleed out, not exactly a dagger to the heart, but super-important to the outcome.

Most "elite" wrs would of caught it. Yes, it was not a "drop" but kearse target window is small and it happened in NY too.

 

[Ozzy]

Precisely. While I agree with much that is said about Wilson these days (Mr. Tone Deaf), there also tends to be some revisionist history happening. It's easy to pile on and conveniently forget all of the magic he produced for us all those years. I remember that game clearly and while yes Russ got pinged for those 4 picks, I remember being much more pissed off with Kearse for letting those catchable balls bounce off his hands. Luckily for us all he redeemed himself with that OT TD catch in the endzone.

Someone earlier in this thread said Russ mentioned being better than Brady and Manning? When did he ever say that? Sure, he always aspired to be the best to play in league history but not once did I hear him ever say he WAS better than Brady and Manning. Just another example of how easy it is to have a warped sense of the past to fit the current narrative.

It’s wild. He was a major reason we had the ten year run we had and people are claiming Pete carried him lol. Russ is terrible this year and I don’t blame fans for hoping he fails, Seahawks benefit from it but to claim he was overrated or not a monster while here is goofy fandom.

 

[IndyHawk]

It’s wild. He was a major reason we had the ten year run we had and people are claiming Pete carried him lol. Russ is terrible this year and I don’t blame fans for hoping he fails, Seahawks benefit from it but to claim he was overrated or not a monster while here is goofy fandom.

This is where we disagree..Pete/LOB coddled and carried.

 

[keasley45]

Lob did win the game. Facts. To act like Kearse was Jerry Rice is laughable. His target % was not that great with and without Russ. He had some amazing catches like SB and some painful drops like the SB.


Kearse dropped a dagger in the superbowl. Lob and some fans want to blame Russ or Pete. Sometimes life is just life. Russ is super close to HOF and maybe needs 1 or 2 good seasons to be a lock. Russ has issues but masked it for 90% of his career. Pete probably aslo helped this as well. Lynch also had his best numbers with Russ and Seattle.


LOB was one of the best defenses of all time. That is factual too.

Russ was disliked by some in the locker room. He was also liked. He was hated by the same guys who flipped pete off, got into fistfights with fellow teammates and said Pete was boring after a few years of the same old hoo rah.


Just because people are on "eff russ bus" these days doesnt deny what Russ did and other facts with the story.

Russ did become super egotistical but kaybe he always was. Winning protects it all and losing blows it open.

Bro, it's not hate or an F Russ Bus - but I like the term, pretty clever.

What Russ did with Seattle was great. But what he couldn't do was INCREDIBLY frustrating in that he failed and is failing consistently at doing BASIC things. It's wonderful to have the scrambles and highlight throws. But to have that, sans the ability to just drop back consistently, make a read, and hit the open guys on the play in the regular flow of the offense is frustrating. Make the plays you're Supposed to make and you don't have to rely on the 4th quarter comebacks.

Completion percentage be damned if you only throw to the guys you're personally confident in making throws to. Make the play when the guy is open, where he's supposed to be.

The frustration with Russ isn't bias. It's the same frustration the Broncos fans see. They're just seeing it faster and his flaws being revealed faster because Denver never tried to put him in an offense where the plays were simple and tailored to his limited ability to diagnose defenses. They never put him in an offense that expected him to work through his issues by running on his own to pressure defenses. They put him in the system HE wanted (one that didn't work here and doesn't work there) and the results are the same there as they'd have been in Seattle if we'd let him run what he wanted here. He's never been able to play the role of the traditional drop back, lethal pocket passer.

 

[Ozzy]

This is where we disagree..Pete/LOB coddled and carried.

Every QB is coddled including Geno though. I don't think they did much more with Wilson than most coaches do with their quarterbacks and Sherman claiming he was coddled is a little ironic to me considering Sherm was coddled and babied as much as any player who has ever played for Pete. He was constantly screaming about the team, the coaching staff, the play calling etc and Pete had to baby him over it.

Russ was a monster because he is just that good of a player. Sure Pete put him in a position to succeed and was great for Russ but its crazy to say Russ was medicore and only good because of Pete, I'm not sure how anyone can watch every game he played and see all the off script stuff he did that literally no one else in the league could've done possible.

I also don't get the constant "he wasn't a traditional pocket passer" Either is Hurts, Lamar, Vick, Steve Young in some regards etc. Who cares how someone is great as long as they were great. Now it may matter now once a player loses his physical skills that make him great in that regard and you could argue that Seattle was smart to trade him when they did because of that but in his prime? He was just great and regardless of how people view him now, its ok to say he really was an absolute monster for a long period of time for us.

 

[IndyHawk]

Every QB is coddled including Geno though. I don't think they did much more with Wilson than most coaches do with their quarterbacks and Sherman claiming he was coddled is a little ironic to me considering Sherm was coddled and babied as much as any player who has ever played for Pete. He was constantly screaming about the team, the coaching staff, the play calling etc and Pete had to baby him over it.

Russ was a monster because he is just that good of a player. Sure Pete put him in a position to succeed and was great for Russ but its crazy to say Russ was medicore and only good because of Pete, I'm not sure how anyone can watch every game he played and see all the off script stuff he did that literally no one else in the league could've done possible.

I also don't get the constant "he wasn't a traditional pocket passer" Either is Hurts, Lamar, Vick, Steve Young in some regards etc. Who cares how someone is great as long as they were great. Now it may matter now once a player loses his physical skills that make him great in that regard and you could argue that Seattle was smart to trade him when they did because of that but in his prime? He was just great and regardless of how people view him now, its ok to say he really was an absolute monster for a long period of time for us.

I can't argue with your opinion it's not going to change it right?
So I'll just try to be brief.
The things that made Russ great going sandlot and making things
"work" are yet counter to the same things we needed out of true QB
play..Making line adjustments,reading defenses,doing audibles,using
the whole field and converting first downs at a good percentage.

It all goes down or out because he played his game not the game.
It won despite the nerve wacking delay of game(s) and high sacks.
We know thats not on Pete though he took the bullet.

I agree #3 was an absolute monster..My nerves still are recovering.

 

[Torc]

Here's an amusing video to watch, after Wilson's efforts this year:



It's the patriots announcers during Russ's rookie season ripping him up and down ("he's not an NFL QB", "all he's doing is running around and throwing it downfield, he's not reading anything"). One of them was a Patriots QB that played half a season and went 3-5, so he's at least got SOME credibility. Some timestamps if you want the highlights: 2:10, 6:50, 7:29, 9:35. It's sort of interesting to compare their comments with the current observations about his game.

To me it's clear that the Seahawks developed an offense tailored around Russ's strengths. He was very good in that offense, but as we know it wasn't particularly sophisticated and was very boom or bust. The booms made for amazing highlights, the busts made for a record string of games without a TD on the first drive. I think Russ is capable of playing a pro style offense. In the first game last year, when we were observing a lot more presnap movement and misdirection, he went 18/23 and threw 4 TDs. I'd love to have been a fly on the wall when the decision was made to move away from that and go back to "his" kind of game.