How about this ? Bennett vs. Tuck

[3Girls'HawkDad]

I can tuck it inside or outside.

 

[Pandion Haliaetus]

Can Tuck play inside and outside? Can Tuck play in this system?

Tuck made his hay playing inside and outside in a Superbowl against a certain undefeated team led by Tom Brady. The Giants defense wasn't all that good on the backend that year, but hte DL was elite.

Kind of like how all of the sudden everyone wants to emulate our defense, when the huge underdog Giants beat the juggernaut Patriots, teams started putting a larger value on DL and getting to the QB from all positions on the line. A big part of this was Tuck being able to move inside and having Umenyiora coming from the outside. When the Giants drafted JPP, Tuck moved inside a lot more.

I was unaware that Wagner and Tuck were cousins. That's very interesting and pretty cool. I basically posted this topic because Tuck and Bennett are almost mirror images of eachother, except that Bennett has Tuck by about 6 lbs or so (Tuck is listed at 268, Bennett 274). I wonder if family ties would entice him to come out, or if he's happy as a Giant.

First and foremost, I wasn't going to point out the hypocrisy in this thread from your view in the Bennett/Hardy thread but alas I cannot help myself.

2ndly, I love how you're all over Tuck, who is 6'5, 268. Yet, you act like 6-6, 270 pound Jared Allen and 6'4, 290 Greg Hardy would be totally worthless against the run.

With that said, Tuck would be a good option for the 2nd LE0 role formerly played by Brock, Irvin, and Avril but because Tuck has already has 2 rings, he's likely to follow the money. However, if we miss out on Bennett.

I hope we can just use that money to extend Avril beyond this season.

Restructure with a pay cut and keep Clemons.

Restructure with a pay cut and keep Bryant.

Re-Sign McDaniel and McDonald.

And then just draft another pass-rush DT, and just give lots of attention in developing Scruggs, Brooks, and Hill. And make a competition out of it. We might not be as good as we would have been with Bennett, but with Quinn in his 2nd year and a lot of our younger guys another year older thus another year wiser the D could just get better within itself whether or not if we have Bennett.

Well I'll address this in points:

"First and foremost" I hardly see how there's hypocrisy in posting how Allen and Hardy don't fit Bennett's spot, and the comparison is apples and oranges. You see, those guys play ON THE OUTSIDE. They don't play INSIDE, like Bennett did for half his snaps.. Why ? Because for most of Allen's career, and with Hardy as well, both teams have elite DT's. I'm not "acting" like they're crap against the run. Both DE's are among the tops in the league against the run, from the OUTSIDE, or Defensive END position. I'm not even saying they can't slide inside, but they've NEVER had to do it, so no way would we pay as much, if not more for either player when they aren't plug and play with what we have. If I have to explain that playing the run as a DE and playing the run as a 3 tech DT are vastly different, we shouldn't be having this conversation, so please watch who you're calling a hypocrite.

2nd, I'm not "all over" Tuck. I think he's a good player. The comparison with Tuck and Bennet is important as they're both FA's and they both play an identical role. They're also the same age and had almost identical stats last year. Allen and Hardy are elite DE's that don't move INSIDE. EVER. I love me some Jared Allen and he'd fit on this team like a glove, but he'd be taking Clemons' spot, not Bennett's, which I also stated in that thread. We have Avril to rush on the outside while Bennett went inside. Once again, we don't need another outside guy there.....he's slide over to Clemons' side. You can't just take any DE and put them inside; it works a lot less often than one thinks it would.

I'd also agree with the 2 rings comment. He's not coming here for a ring. He might come here to play for Pete, which seems to be the rage now on defense. He might come here to play with his cousin Wagner, although I didn't know that when I posted. He might come here to play on a historically elite defense. Another ring probably isn't as high on the list.

Restructure Clemons: I wouldn't have a problem with that.

Restructure Bryant: No. Just cut him. As fans, we think it's more cold blooded to cut a player rather than restructure him. In Bryant's case, we'd be doing him a favor. Another team will pay him at least as much as we're paying him now and he might get more in FA. Bryant can play DE in a 3-4 and that has a lot of value. Cutting him would make him more money. If we keep Bennett, it's my opinion that we need to see what we have in Hill, Williams, Scruggs, and the other young DT we have on the team. Bennett stole snaps from Bryant and played both roles better than Red (or equally in the case of run play).

Resign McDaniel and McDonald. Totally agree. I'm really high on McDonald after this year, and I honestly think he can get better.

Draft a young DT. I'm down for this, or for developing the young guys we just signed to futures contracts that have already shown flashes. We're in a good position (again) this year in that we don't have too many glaring holes outside of the interior OL, so we can go BPA at any position. If we get good enough talent, Hill, Williams or Scruggs probably loses a job. Scruggs intrigues me as he has shown flashes of Bennett...going inside/outside.

1. The hypocrisy I was alluding to was the fact you created this thread after complaining about Bennett vs Insert Elite Pass Rusher Here threads in general.

2. My argument was never that if Allen nor Hardy could slide inside to pass rush. Obviously, Allen probably couldn't but it wouldn't surprise me if Greg Hardy could. You specifically said that we would need to keep Red Bryant because those guys couldn't defend the run. I understand why you are prospecting Tuck, I just thought it was funny because you stated a 6'5, 270 DE and a 6'4, 290 pound DE wouldn't be able to hold up the rush defense. Yet, you applauded Tuck for being 6 pounds less than Bennett, relatively the same, yet you make no reference about needing Red Bryant to possibly make up that loss of possible rush defense.

3. Please, the thing that I hate most about Michael Bennett is that a lot of you guys give him all the credit... truth be told the Mebane/McDaniel/McDonald DT rotation was one of the best in the NFL. Mebane had an All-Pro year. No it did show up in the stats and Bennett probably helped but my credit still goes to Dan Quinn and Travis Jones for getting the most out the players and managing them well when it became hard to give them all snaps.

4. Also, don't make much of it that I hyping Hardy in the other thread. I don't realistically think the Seahawks have a chance to even be in the conversation of getting him. To be honest like I said above I rather not re-sign Bennett or go after any elite pass rusher for that matter. Put the money into an Avril extension while re-signing both McDaniel and McDonald. While asking both Bryant and Clemons to restructure taking paycuts. And yes to Red Bryant. My thinking is that the Seahawks could retain both by asking them to play on 1 year, 4.5 million contracts but guaranteeing both. Both have a chance to get modest money while getting another shot at winning a 2nd Ring with a Defense they helped built.

 

[Blitzer88]

Bennett for sure.

 

[lukerguy]

Can Tuck play inside and outside? Can Tuck play in this system?

Tuck made his hay playing inside and outside in a Superbowl against a certain undefeated team led by Tom Brady. The Giants defense wasn't all that good on the backend that year, but hte DL was elite.

Kind of like how all of the sudden everyone wants to emulate our defense, when the huge underdog Giants beat the juggernaut Patriots, teams started putting a larger value on DL and getting to the QB from all positions on the line. A big part of this was Tuck being able to move inside and having Umenyiora coming from the outside. When the Giants drafted JPP, Tuck moved inside a lot more.

I was unaware that Wagner and Tuck were cousins. That's very interesting and pretty cool. I basically posted this topic because Tuck and Bennett are almost mirror images of eachother, except that Bennett has Tuck by about 6 lbs or so (Tuck is listed at 268, Bennett 274). I wonder if family ties would entice him to come out, or if he's happy as a Giant.

First and foremost, I wasn't going to point out the hypocrisy in this thread from your view in the Bennett/Hardy thread but alas I cannot help myself.

2ndly, I love how you're all over Tuck, who is 6'5, 268. Yet, you act like 6-6, 270 pound Jared Allen and 6'4, 290 Greg Hardy would be totally worthless against the run.

With that said, Tuck would be a good option for the 2nd LE0 role formerly played by Brock, Irvin, and Avril but because Tuck has already has 2 rings, he's likely to follow the money. However, if we miss out on Bennett.

I hope we can just use that money to extend Avril beyond this season.

Restructure with a pay cut and keep Clemons.

Restructure with a pay cut and keep Bryant.

Re-Sign McDaniel and McDonald.

And then just draft another pass-rush DT, and just give lots of attention in developing Scruggs, Brooks, and Hill. And make a competition out of it. We might not be as good as we would have been with Bennett, but with Quinn in his 2nd year and a lot of our younger guys another year older thus another year wiser the D could just get better within itself whether or not if we have Bennett.

Well I'll address this in points:

"First and foremost" I hardly see how there's hypocrisy in posting how Allen and Hardy don't fit Bennett's spot, and the comparison is apples and oranges. You see, those guys play ON THE OUTSIDE. They don't play INSIDE, like Bennett did for half his snaps.. Why ? Because for most of Allen's career, and with Hardy as well, both teams have elite DT's. I'm not "acting" like they're crap against the run. Both DE's are among the tops in the league against the run, from the OUTSIDE, or Defensive END position. I'm not even saying they can't slide inside, but they've NEVER had to do it, so no way would we pay as much, if not more for either player when they aren't plug and play with what we have. If I have to explain that playing the run as a DE and playing the run as a 3 tech DT are vastly different, we shouldn't be having this conversation, so please watch who you're calling a hypocrite.

Actually Allen can rush effectively inside as well as outside. I could see him filling Bennett's role possibly. If you watch some of his highlight tape, on occasion they'll bump him inside to 5 tech on rushing downs.

 

[nwgamer]

Nah ... I'll be a homer and cheat and say get both on the field at the same time with Avril and Clemons... Just sayin