Defensive issues goes beyond Norton

TheLegendOfBoom

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Everybody loves to blame Norton.

Deservedly, so, but Carroll has not yet adjusted to the giving the receivers a free release and just have the defensive backs play 10 yards back and let everything get caught in front of the corners.

Make no mistake, Carroll allows Norton to play this off-technique and Seattle just gets abused with the short quick passes.

And when it’s not a short quick pass, the opposing receivers are able to cut off their routes and sit in open zones.

Carroll’s zone coverage has been what he has used even before Norton was Coordinator.

Only difference is Seattle had elite defensive backs and NFL rules allowed bump and run close coverage but that has since changed and Carroll, not, Norton, hasn’t adapted.

Carroll tells Norton how to play in what schemes and this is what Norton was taught under Carroll.

Only thing is Norton doesn’t have the testicular fortitude to adjust himself and play in a different scheme.

Think about it, if it was entirely Norton’s calls, Carroll would have fired Norton already for not complying with his calls.

Norton always has been a scapegoat for Carroll’s dated and predictable schemes.

This is Carroll’s defense and schemes and always have been.

Carroll is not going to get rid of Norton cause Norton complies with Carroll and does exactly what Carroll calls for him to do.

Seattles defense will look and be a lot better if they had a consistent pass rush, which, Seattle does not have.

This is Carroll’s defense and will always be Carroll’s 10 yard off-coverage, zone defense.

You gotta call it how you have and we have all seen it for the past several seasons.
 

TwistedHusky

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Except Norton was terrible before he got here.

If anything, Carroll made him look better than he is and masked some of the terrible.

But eventually it was going to surface.

The FAULT is Carroll for making this terrible decision and continuing to run with it.

But the CAUSE is Norton.


If Norton somehow ended up unable to coach in a few games, we would be better. That makes Norton a net negative.
 

andyh64000

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Viking receivers were usually open by at least 10 yards, that is entirely on Norton and his scheme and playcalling.
 

hawkfan68

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andyh64000":293dxtoq said:
Viking receivers were usually open by at least 10 yards, that is entirely on Norton and his scheme and playcalling.

It's Pete's scheme not Norton's. Norton isn't helping matters but PC dictates the scheme.
 

balakoth

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hawkfan68":10e5jo4v said:
andyh64000":10e5jo4v said:
Viking receivers were usually open by at least 10 yards, that is entirely on Norton and his scheme and playcalling.

It's Pete's scheme not Norton's. Norton isn't helping matters but PC dictates the scheme.

Source?
 

chris98251

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balakoth":2v88fryc said:
hawkfan68":2v88fryc said:
andyh64000":2v88fryc said:
Viking receivers were usually open by at least 10 yards, that is entirely on Norton and his scheme and playcalling.

It's Pete's scheme not Norton's. Norton isn't helping matters but PC dictates the scheme.

Source?

20 years of watching his defenses at USC and Seattle.
 

Sports Hernia

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Norton/Carroll are still scheming like they have the LOB back there.
If they can’t recognize the talent is different then it’s likely time for a change.
 

hawkfan68

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balakoth":31ps7xzv said:
hawkfan68":31ps7xzv said:
andyh64000":31ps7xzv said:
Viking receivers were usually open by at least 10 yards, that is entirely on Norton and his scheme and playcalling.

It's Pete's scheme not Norton's. Norton isn't helping matters but PC dictates the scheme.

Source?

https://www.si.com/nfl/seahawks/news/where-does-blame-lie-for-seahawks-defensive-woes

Notice this is mentioned in the article -
"Even Pete Carroll’s overall scheme has been identified by some as the crux of the problem."

https://www.espn.com/blog/seattle-s...principles-stem-from-1977-arkansas-experience

https://theathletic.com/2188427/202...te-carroll-seahawks-d-need-to-look-in-mirror/ -
Notice this paragraph - "I say “coaching staff” and not just defensive coordinator Ken Norton Jr. because Carroll is very involved in the installation of the defense and participates in the play-calling on game day (another name to note is Andre Curtis, who coordinates the defensive passing game). Defensive coaches working under Carroll don’t have autonomy — they’re executing a vision Carroll has for how the defense should be run. Good or bad, Carroll should be included in any assessment of Seattle’s defense."
 

seahawks08

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If Ken doesn’t have the Lee way and has to work with Pete’s scheme and the result is sub par, then Ken should resign as it doesn’t help his case. If it’s Ken’s scheme or coaching then Pete needs to make a change. Both Ken and Kris were two position skilled coaches around line or corners, they never seemed to understand the entire scheme of things looking at how Seahawks have regressed. If it’s talent, coaching or drafting, it seems like we don’t have answers to most of plays.
 

kf3339

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TheLegendOfBoom":d9mmm852 said:
Everybody loves to blame Norton.

Deservedly, so, but Carroll has not yet adjusted to the giving the receivers a free release and just have the defensive backs play 10 yards back and let everything get caught in front of the corners.

Make no mistake, Carroll allows Norton to play this off-technique and Seattle just gets abused with the short quick passes.

And when it’s not a short quick pass, the opposing receivers are able to cut off their routes and sit in open zones.

Carroll’s zone coverage has been what he has used even before Norton was Coordinator.

Only difference is Seattle had elite defensive backs and NFL rules allowed bump and run close coverage but that has since changed and Carroll, not, Norton, hasn’t adapted.

Carroll tells Norton how to play in what schemes and this is what Norton was taught under Carroll.

Only thing is Norton doesn’t have the testicular fortitude to adjust himself and play in a different scheme.

Think about it, if it was entirely Norton’s calls, Carroll would have fired Norton already for not complying with his calls.

Norton always has been a scapegoat for Carroll’s dated and predictable schemes.

This is Carroll’s defense and schemes and always have been.

Carroll is not going to get rid of Norton cause Norton complies with Carroll and does exactly what Carroll calls for him to do.

Seattles defense will look and be a lot better if they had a consistent pass rush, which, Seattle does not have.

This is Carroll’s defense and will always be Carroll’s 10 yard off-coverage, zone defense.

You gotta call it how you have and we have all seen it for the past several seasons.

Exactly. Thank you. :irishdrinkers: :irishdrinkers:
 

kf3339

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Sports Hernia":12oczfn4 said:
Norton/Carroll are still scheming like they have the LOB back there.
If they can’t recognize the talent is different then it’s likely time for a change.

:ditto:
 

kf3339

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hawkfan68":2i41ep28 said:
balakoth":2i41ep28 said:
hawkfan68":2i41ep28 said:
andyh64000":2i41ep28 said:
Viking receivers were usually open by at least 10 yards, that is entirely on Norton and his scheme and playcalling.

It's Pete's scheme not Norton's. Norton isn't helping matters but PC dictates the scheme.

Source?

https://www.si.com/nfl/seahawks/news/where-does-blame-lie-for-seahawks-defensive-woes

Notice this is mentioned in the article -
"Even Pete Carroll’s overall scheme has been identified by some as the crux of the problem."

https://www.espn.com/blog/seattle-s...principles-stem-from-1977-arkansas-experience

https://theathletic.com/2188427/202...te-carroll-seahawks-d-need-to-look-in-mirror/ -
Notice this paragraph - "I say “coaching staff” and not just defensive coordinator Ken Norton Jr. because Carroll is very involved in the installation of the defense and participates in the play-calling on game day (another name to note is Andre Curtis, who coordinates the defensive passing game). Defensive coaches working under Carroll don’t have autonomy — they’re executing a vision Carroll has for how the defense should be run. Good or bad, Carroll should be included in any assessment of Seattle’s defense."

In other words, the modern NFL offensive game has passed PC and his defensive schemes ability to counter. That and the NFL rule book has taken much of his secondary play out of the game. He just doesn't wish to adjust. That is pretty obvious to everyone.
 

Elemas

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Not to derail but, the whole finding a diamond in the rough (like taking LJ over Sweat) is getting old. For what? To look like geniuses 2 out of 10 times???
 

pittpnthrs

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When Pete declares that they 'threw everything at the Vikings' defensively,,,,,,thats downright scary.

Thats either admitting they dont know what they are doing or there is just no talent what so ever. Probably a little bit of both.
 

keasley45

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Who was our db coach before Shead? Gotta say that that's one area that has completely collapsed.

All I've heard are good things about the guy but yiu have to say that a finger needs to point in his direction.

Norton is lost. He's been given the keys to a car that SHOULD be a lot faster around the track. And Shead, like Norton, looks to be another 'feel good' appointment without credentials, who's group is way under-performing.
 

hox

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keasley45":1d8034e8 said:
Who was our db coach before Shead? Gotta say that that's one area that has completely collapsed.

All I've heard are good things about the guy but yiu have to say that a finger needs to point in his direction.

Norton is lost. He's been given the keys to a car that SHOULD be a lot faster around the track. And Shead, like Norton, looks to be another 'feel good' appointment without credentials, who's group is way under-performing.

Andre Curtis is currently the defensive pass game coordinator for the Seattle Seahawks.

Shead was subbing in for him last game.
 

hawks85

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I disagree. Norton had his chance in Oakland and got fired half way through the season. 49ers let his ass go as well. The only reason why Norton isn't gone is because Wagner likes him and Pete's protecting him. Giving up 1000 yards in 2 weeks on any other team in the league you're done. If Norton pulled this shit in Tampa Bay or KC or the Rams, do you think Norton would still have a job? The answer is no. All three of those coaches would fire his ass real quick.
 
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