BRADY/PATS PUNISHMENT OVER TURNED BY JUDGE. (Updated 9/3/15)

[Hasselbeck]

I haven't given two sh*ts about deflategate since the news broke right after the AFC Championship game. And I can honestly care less that Brady got let off the hook.

Yes he is a bit of a slimeball, but when it is all said and done he will go down as one of the best, if not the best QB of all time. And for those who think this will tarnish his legacy, I'm not so sure about that. People quickly forget. Almost no one remember's Kobe Bryant's rape case. People will remember his great play and superbowl wins before they even think about deflategate.

Sadly in this country cheating is frowned upon more than rape, domestic violence, etc.

Look at A-Rod, Barry Bonds, Clemens, etc. They will NEVER be seen as great players.. they will forever have that stain upon them for the rest of their lives.

Kobe? Meh.. no one cares about his past accusations (even though I believe firmly they were absolutely false)

Brady will be forever branded a cheater by every fan base but his own. Whether or not that bothers him, obviously I couldn't speak for.. but his cheater label will stay until the end of time.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

But it's like a political office, as long as times are good then we re-elect people.........because no one wants to rock the boat.

Sure another commissioner would probably do just as good, but if you're the owners why chance change disrupting the ridiculous money flow going into your pockets right now?

Comparing billionaires to average voters is silly. Most of the owners are shrewd businessmen and are highly interested in making sure that the money keeps flowing; they're not going to just sit back and assume everything will stay the same.

That isn't to say that he will be replaced for sure, but to suggest that there is no chance that he will get replaced due to how much money the league rakes in is incorrect.

I'm not saying no chance, just saying I doubt it'll happen because the NFL's making record profits.

This was in response to people assuming this means Goodell's out. Just don't think it'll happen................yet.

 

[c_hawkbob]

The NFL should have handled it the way Baseball does a corked bat or a greased ball, toss Brady for the rest of the game and that's the end of it. No courts, no overturned rulings no BS, just handle it within the constructs of the game being played, once the game's over the whole thing is over.

 

[Exittium]

Goodell has already announced his appeal. I get the feeling that this judge wanted to rule for Brady the whole time. Bad luck, but he probably won't have bad luck twice. It should also inform Goodell of how to select his arbitraters and independent investigators in the future. Just because Goodell can get away with having a buddy do the investigation and act as his own arbitrator by the cba doesn't mean it won't be vulnerable in court if the judge is sympathetic to the other party.

I think Kearly is right. I think the judge was gonig to rule for Brady from the start. The deflategate sadly OVERSHADOWED why Brady was suspended in the 1st place. Even his dumbass was to stupid to understand why. And that was as Gooddell already has stated numerous times in all of his reports, it wasn't deflated footballs, it was his lack of cooperation which is completely understandable. A lot of people seem to forget its not about deflategate its the fact that Brady never cooperated to begin with.

 

[Ron Burgundy]

This just in: Evidence matters when you accuse someone of cheating.

I think he absolutely did it.. but the NFL botched this from the get go.

Frankly I think Rog botched it on purpose so he wouldn't have to come down on his favorite team and owner.

 

[Hawk-Lock]

I haven't given two sh*ts about deflategate since the news broke right after the AFC Championship game. And I can honestly care less that Brady got let off the hook.

Yes he is a bit of a slimeball, but when it is all said and done he will go down as one of the best, if not the best QB of all time. And for those who think this will tarnish his legacy, I'm not so sure about that. People quickly forget. Almost no one remember's Kobe Bryant's rape case. People will remember his great play and superbowl wins before they even think about deflategate.

Sadly in this country cheating is frowned upon more than rape, domestic violence, etc.

Look at A-Rod, Barry Bonds, Clemens, etc. They will NEVER be seen as great players.. they will forever have that stain upon them for the rest of their lives.

Kobe? Meh.. no one cares about his past accusations (even though I believe firmly they were absolutely false)

Brady will be forever branded a cheater by every fan base but his own. Whether or not that bothers him, obviously I couldn't speak for.. but his cheater label will stay until the end of time.

Baseball is much different. They don't accept cheaters like other sports. Belichick is a worst cheater than Brady and I think when most people think of him, they think of a great coach.

It's easy to think of deflategate now because it is in our rear-view mirror, but 10-15 years from now, people will be thinking of all the superbowls he won. And to be quite honest, altering the pressure of footballs isn't a deal-breaker for me. Plenty of sports athletes have done much worst.

 

[chris98251]

This whole issue was due to Goodell wanting to be the headpiece and run everything, the Wells Report was not considered an arbitrary investigative agent, if the NFL had a committee and a disciplinary person other then Goodell that had a NFLPA person as a representative as well rather then a hodgepodge process and unclear chain of command things may have went faster and different in all the cases. Goodell should over see the process not make determinations. The inconsistencies in all the cases over the last year of how things were handled made the whole process easy to poke holes in.

The fact Goodells Ego gets fed first in all these things is what has caused all the problems. Brady is guilty, they never said he wasn't, they just said that the NFL botched things up in how they went about it and therefore the suspension is overturned.

Appeal may happen but it will be only to save face, if it takes another year or more to happen now that the season is upon us it will mean nothing in the big scheme of things, Brady will retire if they have a Super Bowl appearance or if they suck really bad. Any win by the NFL will never be applied to him as far as a discipline.

 

[jammerhawk]

All this ruling clarified is that the NFL handled this punishment process wrongly.

Brady still is likely guilty but in the 'Patriot way' escapes punishment while offloading the blame on some underling.

 

[kearly]

This just in: Evidence matters when you accuse someone of cheating.

There was a lot of evidence actually, just a lack of a smoking gun. If this had been a jury trial where the standard is lower (beyond reasonable doubt), there's no way an unbiased jury would rule in favor of Brady.

My problem with the judge is that he showed gross incompetence / bias in Brady's favor, in that he bought a couple of ridiculous arguments that Brady's attorney's put out there:

1) That Brady couldn't tell the footballs felt under-inflated. (Even a layman can tell the difference, and the person who intercepted Brady's pass knew something was up immediately. Also, Brady had heard these accusations before the Colts game so there really is no possible way to claim ignorance.)

2) That just because the balls were under-inflated intentionally by a person doesn't mean Brady was involved. (QBs are infamous for being very picky about their footballs, and a lot of the intercepted texts relayed that Brady was pissy if they weren't exactly the way he liked them.)

3) The Judge brought up that Brady played well after being caught. Even if it did Brady absolutely zero good, it still doesn't change that he broke the rules, so why bring up the cheating's effectiveness? To me that sounds like the Judge was trying to justify himself.

It's one thing to ignore common sense, it's another thing to actively go against it, and that's what the judge did. He also didn't seem to care that Brady refused to cooperate and destroyed potential evidence.

There's also the fact that judges are instructed to show extreme deference to the arbitrators decision. In the past 6 years in the same court system, only two such cases were reversed by a judge.

It's not that I think Goodell was perfect in how he handled this, but I think this decision was much more about the flaws in the Judge's reasoning than in the flaws of Goodell's prosecution.

Really it's just bad luck for Goodell. We all knew that the verdict would come down to the type of judge that overheard the case. If Goodell didn't think he could win in a new trial with a new judge, he wouldn't be appealing.

 

[gargantual]

According to Brock Huard on his morning show, the only thing the judge ruled on was whether the proceedure was proper. It had nothing to do with guilt or innocence, evidence or anything else.

So Pats fans saying this exonerates him are wrong.

 

[hawknation2015]

This just in: Evidence matters when you accuse someone of cheating.

There was a lot of evidence actually, just a lack of a smoking gun. If this had been a jury trial where the standard is lower (beyond reasonable doubt), there's no way an unbiased jury would rule in favor of Brady.

My problem with the judge is that he showed gross incompetence / bias in Brady's favor, in that he bought a couple of ridiculous arguments that Brady's attorney's put out there:

1) That Brady couldn't tell the footballs felt under-inflated.

2) That just because the balls were under-inflated intentionally by a person doesn't mean Brady was involved.

He also didn't seem to care that Brady refused to cooperate and destroyed potential evidence.

There's also the fact that judges are instructed to show extreme deference to the arbitrators decision. In the past 6 years in the same court system, only two such cases were reversed by a judge.

It's not that I think Goodell was perfect in how he handled this, but I think this decision was much more about the flaws in the Judge's reasoning than in the flaws of Goodell's prosecution.

Preponderance of the evidence is a much lower burden to meet than beyond a reasonable doubt. It would actually be much more difficult to convict Brady under that criminal standard than under the civil standard used by the NFL.

The rest I am in agreement with . . . this is a really bad decision that does not show sufficient deference to the fact finding of the NFL. The responsibility of a judge is not to preference his own factual judgments over the judgments of the original fact finder. It should be to adjudicate the law only when there is a breach of duty by the organization or clear legal error by the arbitrator.

 

[Cyrus12]

teflon tom...nuff said. hope he retires soon....

 

[kearly]

Preponderance of the evidence is a much lower burden to meet than beyond a reasonable doubt. It would actually be much more difficult to convict Brady under that criminal standard than under the civil standard used by the NFL.

That's all true. I guess my meaning is that jurors tend to be less litigious and make decisions more on feel and common sense.

 

[kearly]

This whole issue was due to Goodell wanting to be the headpiece and run everything, the Wells Report was not considered an arbitrary investigative agent, if the NFL had a committee and a disciplinary person other then Goodell that had a NFLPA person as a representative as well rather then a hodgepodge process and unclear chain of command things may have went faster and different in all the cases. Goodell should over see the process not make determinations. The inconsistencies in all the cases over the last year of how things were handled made the whole process easy to poke holes in.

I bet Goodell wishes Tom Brady really were innocent. Then he wouldn't have to make a huge enemy out of his most vital ownership ally.

I think Goodell, like the rest of us, was 100% convinced that Brady cheat and lied, and simply didn't want to be embarrassed by a truly neutral investigator letting Brady wiggle off the hook on account of not having a smoking gun. And he didn't want to be embarrassed by a truly neutral arbitrator over-ruling his investigator's decision. But now, he's been embarrassed by a judge who (IMO) showed clear signs of bias / incompetence.

As much as I hate Goodell, I actually feel sorry for him on this one. This is the one time he got hammered when maybe he shouldn't have been.

 

[hawknation2015]

Preponderance of the evidence is a much lower burden to meet than beyond a reasonable doubt. It would actually be much more difficult to convict Brady under that criminal standard than under the civil standard used by the NFL.

That's all true. I guess my meaning is that jurors tend to be less litigious and make decisions more on common sense.

It really depends on the jury, but the standard is the standard. A criminal defendant can also waive his right to a jury trial in favor of a bench trial if he wanted to . . . the Seventh Amendment also guarantees the right to a jury trial in federal civil cases with remedies under the common law, and most states guarantee a jury trial in some civil cases.

All that said, it would be a little tough to convict Brady under a beyond a reasonable doubt standard. There is nothing right now directly trying him to the deflation. There are the suspicious text messages related to autographed memorabilia. There are the suspicious number of phone calls between Brady and the equipment manager. There are the suspicious explanations for the text messages from those staff members. There are Brady's suspicious explanations during his press conference. And there is the suspicious destruction of his cell phone. That is enough for reasonable suspicion, but I am not so sure there would be a clear absence of "reasonable doubt."

Under the much lower civil standard, however, I don't think there is any question that it is more likely than not that Brady was involved in the cheating. The evidence points in that direction.

 

[Sports Hernia]

I don't care for Rog or Shady Brady so if the "train wreck" continues with the appeals process that's fine by me. :snack:
2 legacy's severely tarnished. 8)

 

[50yrpatsfan]

I told you guys many times this was a witch hunt and that ultimately the suspension would be overturned.

Today's ruling was about how flawed the NFL justice & arbitration process is, mainly because the man in charge doesn't have an ounce of executive judgment in his body. Not to mention a total lack of scruples as this whole fiasco of a prosecution proved.

But the reason that the NFL resorted to hiding evidence, refusing access to witnesses, etc. (which is what Berman based his ruling on), is because they didn't have a factual case that could stand the light of day.

And the reason it couldn't stand the light of day is because no illegal deflation ever occurred. The league was mistaken about what happened, and didn't have the decency to man up, admit their mistake, and close the case. That's the reality here.

 

[Exittium]

I told you guys many times this was a witch hunt and that ultimately the suspension would be overturned.

Today's ruling was about how flawed the NFL justice & arbitration process is, mainly because the man in charge doesn't have an ounce of executive judgment in his body. Not to mention a total lack of scruples as this whole fiasco of a prosecution proved.

But the reason that the NFL resorted to hiding evidence, refusing access to witnesses, etc. (which is what Berman based his ruling on), is because they didn't have a factual case that could stand the light of day.

And the reason it couldn't stand the light of day is because no illegal deflation ever occurred. The league was mistaken about what happened, and didn't have the decency to man up, admit their mistake, and close the case. That's the reality here.

ROFLMAO, You as the rest of the brady everyone's out to get us fanbase cult, is still missing the point of him being suspended. Was is lack of cooperation. period end of story. Nobody "hid" evidence, Brady destroyed evidence if anything lol. Nobody refused access to the "assistants involved"

lol Man you pats fans sure a delusional bunch.. and I don't even think that word works for describing HOW ignorant the fan base of the patriots have really shown themselves to be.

Have fun cheering a cheating team on btw :th2thumbs: :th2thumbs: Brady has looked like crap all preseason with fully inflated balls. And as for the appeal I think it will go through and get overturned. The judge did nothing to NOT show biased in the case, let alone he did nothing in relations to why brady was even suspended, he immediately went after the NFL and Goodell.

 

[50yrpatsfan]

I told you guys many times this was a witch hunt and that ultimately the suspension would be overturned.

Today's ruling was about how flawed the NFL justice & arbitration process is, mainly because the man in charge doesn't have an ounce of executive judgment in his body. Not to mention a total lack of scruples as this whole fiasco of a prosecution proved.

But the reason that the NFL resorted to hiding evidence, refusing access to witnesses, etc. (which is what Berman based his ruling on), is because they didn't have a factual case that could stand the light of day.

And the reason it couldn't stand the light of day is because no illegal deflation ever occurred. The league was mistaken about what happened, and didn't have the decency to man up, admit their mistake, and close the case. That's the reality here.

ROFLMAO, You as the rest of the brady everyone's out to get us fanbase cult, is still missing the point of him being suspended. Was is lack of cooperation. period end of story. Nobody "hid" evidence, Brady destroyed evidence if anything lol. Nobody refused access to the "assistants involved"

lol Man you pats fans sure a delusional bunch.. and I don't even think that word works for describing HOW ignorant the fan base of the patriots have really shown themselves to be.

Have fun cheering a cheating team on btw :th2thumbs: :th2thumbs: Brady has looked like crap all preseason with fully inflated balls. And as for the appeal I think it will go through and get overturned. The judge did nothing to NOT show biased in the case, let alone he did nothing in relations to why brady was even suspended, he immediately went after the NFL and Goodell.

Look, admit it, you got lied to by the NFL, and fell for it hook line and sinker. It's OK, you weren't the only one. It's 1000% obvious that the balls weren't low. Who gives a rats ass about texts and cell phones if there was no crime to begin with?

 

[Sports Hernia]

I told you guys many times this was a witch hunt and that ultimately the suspension would be overturned.

Today's ruling was about how flawed the NFL justice & arbitration process is, mainly because the man in charge doesn't have an ounce of executive judgment in his body. Not to mention a total lack of scruples as this whole fiasco of a prosecution proved.

But the reason that the NFL resorted to hiding evidence, refusing access to witnesses, etc. (which is what Berman based his ruling on), is because they didn't have a factual case that could stand the light of day.

And the reason it couldn't stand the light of day is because no illegal deflation ever occurred. The league was mistaken about what happened, and didn't have the decency to man up, admit their mistake, and close the case. That's the reality here.

ROFLMAO, You as the rest of the brady everyone's out to get us fanbase cult, is still missing the point of him being suspended. Was is lack of cooperation. period end of story. Nobody "hid" evidence, Brady destroyed evidence if anything lol. Nobody refused access to the "assistants involved"

lol Man you pats fans sure a delusional bunch.. and I don't even think that word works for describing HOW ignorant the fan base of the patriots have really shown themselves to be.

Have fun cheering a cheating team on btw :th2thumbs: :th2thumbs: Brady has looked like crap all preseason with fully inflated balls. And as for the appeal I think it will go through and get overturned. The judge did nothing to NOT show biased in the case, let alone he did nothing in relations to why brady was even suspended, he immediately went after the NFL and Goodell.

Look, admit it, you got lied to by the NFL, and fell for it hook line and sinker. It's OK, you weren't the only one. It's 1000% obvious that the balls weren't low. Who gives a rats ass about texts and cell phones if there was no crime to begin with?

Innocent people don't destroy their cellphones that have evidence on them that can help their case, innocent people usually cooperate with investigations since they have nothing to hide. Shady was not ruled innocent by the judge he got off on technicalities. A legacy forever tarnished, damage self inflicted.