BRADY/PATS PUNISHMENT OVER TURNED BY JUDGE. (Updated 9/3/15)

[ivotuk]

What Brady did was like going 15 miles per hour over the speed limit, getting pulled over, acting like he did nothing wrong then finally spitting in the cop's face when asked for license and registration.

It's not really the cheating itself, but the douchey and dishonest way that Brady, the Patriots organization, and Patriots fans themselves handled the whole thing which got the hammer so high before it dropped.

Totally agree.. if the day this happened Brady and his ballboys or whatever had just come forward and said "yes, we do it all the time, didnt realize it was a big deal. We knew there technically limits but no one ever seems to care (which is true..until this happened the refs were very lose with air pressure)...we wont do it anymore!" then they would have gotten a slap on the wrist I think. Their mock outrage and how they handled the investigation made them their own worst enemy.

There are a lot of really good comments in this thread, and some really moronic ones. But I think these two pretty much cover it.

It's just like Bill Clinton and Martha Stewart, they dug themselves a deeper hole by denying and belittling. It's a pathetic approach, because instead of owning up to their mistakes, they are trying to destroy the lives and reputations of those who they consider beneath them.

By doing so, they have only put their own extreme arrogance on display. They have failed miserably in the eyes of the public, and in the peerless view of history.

Winston Churchill once said "History will be kind to me, for I intend to write it." And he was in a position to do so, the Patriot organization thinks they are, but they will only come out looking foolish because they are taking cues from their fans. The sad part is, I think Tom Brady is taking cues from Robert Kraft, who is like teflon. But Tom Brady is a hugely iconic figure and this stain will follow him through eternity.

Even Bill Bellicheat is somewhat impervious to this because he already has a reputation as a cheater. But what's another incident matter in a history of breaking the rules when you've garnered 4 rings in the process?

Which leaves me with one last question, if Bill Bellicheat did not go out of his way to bend and break the rules, would Tom Brady have ever stooped to deflating balls? My guess is that he would not have. Shit flows downhill and it has piled up all over the Brady Bunch, because his family is not immune to this mess....

 

[StoneCold]

What Brady did was like going 15 miles per hour over the speed limit, getting pulled over, acting like he did nothing wrong then finally spitting in the cop's face when asked for license and registration.

It's not really the cheating itself, but the douchey and dishonest way that Brady, the Patriots organization, and Patriots fans themselves handled the whole thing which got the hammer so high before it dropped.

Totally agree.. if the day this happened Brady and his ballboys or whatever had just come forward and said "yes, we do it all the time, didnt realize it was a big deal. We knew there technically limits but no one ever seems to care (which is true..until this happened the refs were very lose with air pressure)...we wont do it anymore!" then they would have gotten a slap on the wrist I think. Their mock outrage and how they handled the investigation made them their own worst enemy.

I agree with this sentiment for the most part, but it is also damning that they did this after the ref check and in a bathroom where they couldn't be seen. Those two items are a clear knowledge that what they were doing was wrong.

SC

 

[chris98251]

Just seen another story that has A.J. Feeley witnessing Brady having personnal worn balls thrown into the game against the Dolphins, this was 2004.

 

[hawknation2015]

Former NFL quarterback A.J. Feeley says the Patriots were breaking the rules about properly preparing footballs long before Deflategate.

Feeley said on 97.5 The Fanatic that when he was playing for the Dolphins in 2004, he saw Patriots quarterback Tom Brady using old, broken-in balls at a time when NFL rules said that teams had to use new balls provided by the league.

“Prior to Tommy and Peyton Manning going to the league and saying, ‘Let us doctor our balls’ we used to all play with the same balls,” Feeley said. “Somehow this beat-up ball from the ball boy was getting thrown in on offense for New England, yet when we were on offense this orange brand new ball was getting thrown in.”

Feeley says Brady was getting an advantage, and Feeley had a problem with it.

“He’s getting his own balls thrown in on offense,” Feeley said. “That was an issue to me at the time. . . . We saw it then.”

If the Patriots were cheating to gain an advantage over the Dolphins in 2004, it’s odd that no one said anything about it until 2015. Maybe no one said anything because they didn’t think it was a big deal. This week the NFL showed that it thinks tampering with the footballs is a very big deal.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20 ... footballs/

It is mentioned in the report that McNally had previously been accused by the NFL of tampering with the approved game balls back in 2004 when, during another game against the Jets, he smuggled non-approved balls into the game because “we were trying to keep a dry ball in the game at all times.” In response to this incident, McNally claimed it was an "accident" that non-approved practice balls were given to the ball boy.

If Feeley is saying he remembers this happening during their game against the Patriots in 2004, then there appears to be a clear pattern of cheating arising here.

 

[kidhawk]

Former NFL quarterback A.J. Feeley says the Patriots were breaking the rules about properly preparing footballs long before Deflategate.

Feeley said on 97.5 The Fanatic that when he was playing for the Dolphins in 2004, he saw Patriots quarterback Tom Brady using old, broken-in balls at a time when NFL rules said that teams had to use new balls provided by the league.

“Prior to Tommy and Peyton Manning going to the league and saying, ‘Let us doctor our balls’ we used to all play with the same balls,” Feeley said. “Somehow this beat-up ball from the ball boy was getting thrown in on offense for New England, yet when we were on offense this orange brand new ball was getting thrown in.”

Feeley says Brady was getting an advantage, and Feeley had a problem with it.

“He’s getting his own balls thrown in on offense,” Feeley said. “That was an issue to me at the time. . . . We saw it then.”

If the Patriots were cheating to gain an advantage over the Dolphins in 2004, it’s odd that no one said anything about it until 2015. Maybe no one said anything because they didn’t think it was a big deal. This week the NFL showed that it thinks tampering with the footballs is a very big deal.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20 ... footballs/

It is mentioned in the report that McNally had previously been accused by the NFL of tampering with the approved game balls back in 2004 when, during another game against the Jets, he smuggled non-approved balls into the game because “we were trying to keep a dry ball in the game at all times.” In response to this incident, McNally claimed it was an "accident" that non-approved practice balls were given to the ball boy.

If Feeley is saying he remembers this happening during their game against the Patriots in 2004, then there appears to be a clear pattern of cheating arising here.

And IMO, it appears that they admitted to it quickly and the NFL just let it slide with a gentle wrist tap. I think if they had done something similar, they may have gotten in a little trouble, and McNalley would likely have taken the brunt of it, but the issue wouldn't have gotten blown up like it is.

 

[chris98251]

It just adds to what everyone is saying, this is not isolated, add all the stuff up since Kraft has been owner and Belechik hired, the way he was hired and Pete let go all that and spygate and the player tampering and slight of hand, injury report fraud, manipulation of the eligible receiver rule to confuse officials, and maybe you will see a pattern. This is just the stuff that we have heard about. I will wager there are 10 things for every one we know.

 

[Hasselbeck]

Just seen another story that has A.J. Feeley witnessing Brady having personnal worn balls thrown into the game against the Dolphins, this was 2004.

This feels like just piling on at this point. The Simms thing. The Feeley thing. Etc.

I have no doubt in my mind Brady is guilty of this, but this feels like the Bill Cosby thing when all kinds of different "victims" started to emerge.

 

[chris98251]

I can see your point, but also remember these things have been brought up before and kicked under the carpet so to speak, now added to the deflation it's a much bigger issue. That and he and Manning wanted the rules changed in 2010 so they could manipulate them even more.

 

[Hasselbeck]

I wish people would look past the Colts as the victim in this.
We have no clue how many victims there are.
IMHO this has been going on for years.
We all know that just one completed pass at the perfect time, can change the outcome of a game.
Not to mention a fumble or interception that didn't happen.
I don't have the time or energy to go back to research but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that the possible implications are huge.

Stealing $10 from your employer is not in its self a big deal BUT doing it every day for many years, and the end result is a big deal.
Come on man.

Exactly. There's no way Brady woke up that morning and was like "this is going to sound crazy, but lets deflate the footballs today guys!"

This has been going on for years. Just like Spygate probably was. And like every other illegal activity, eventually.. you get caught.

I think the real benefit that continues to go unmentioned by a large amount of media members and fans alike is the absurd fumble stats, or lack thereof, that the Patriots have been the "beneficiary" of the last few years. Steven Ridley would be entrenched in the Bill Belichick dog house for weeks for one fumble.. Blount/Vereen/Gray/insert other hacky Pats RB here would RARELY fumble in a home game in Massachusetts where the weather can be downright brutal at times. That's not just a result of angry Bill Belichick IMO.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

I have no doubt in my mind Brady is guilty of this, but this feels like the Bill Cosby thing when all kinds of different "victims" started to emerge.

The Colts have no reason to feel victimized, but if you're a fan or player on the Ravens with all the close games they've lost up in Foxboro over the years how could you not feel a little victimized and pissed off?

More grip on a football to pass, run and catch sure as hell doesn't make a difference when you just got your ass kicked by 30, but it sure might if you lost by 4.........and for how many years?

If we found out Brady did this in the SB, I guarantee you this forum would be on fire with fans feeling victimized.

 

[RedAlice]

I have no doubt in my mind Brady is guilty of this, but this feels like the Bill Cosby thing when all kinds of different "victims" started to emerge.

The Colts have no reason to feel victimized, but if you're a fan or player on the Ravens with all the close games they've lost up in Foxboro over the years how could you not feel a little victimized and pissed off?

More grip on a football to pass, run and catch sure as hell doesn't make a difference when you just got your ass kicked by 30, but it sure might if you lost by 4.........and for how many years?

If we found out Brady did this in the SB, I guarantee you this forum would be on fire with fans feeling victimized.

Actually, that is a good point. What if we just now found out it was the Hawks and it started in 2011? I think fans of the other NFC W teams might be upset.

 

[VivaEfrenHerrera]

....If Brady and the Pats would have just come clean and said something like "Yes I instructed the equipment managers to lower the pressure as much as possible WITHIN the legal limits, and if that didn't happen I'm sorry and we'll fully cooperate and accept whatever punishment the league sees fit." Then Brady would have only got maybe a one game suspension, and a far less fine for the Pats....

I agree that this is true, but it still makes me sad in a way. Because what are we actually saying, here? If only Brady would have lied a bit more convincingly, we'd forgive everything.

This line of thinking reinforces the idea that this is "no big deal", "everybody does it", and "it didn't really do anything, so what's the problem here?"

But the fact of the matter is that this is a big deal. (At least in terms of sports, right?) The fumbling data is very, very troubling, and it seems quite likely that this has gone on for years, and has been effective. We can't say for sure how many games a year this little scheme was worth. A whole game? Half a game? That's no knowable. But over the course of seasons, this ill-gotten advantage has turned mediocre seasons into playoff years and wild card seasons into first-round byes. That's super significant in NFL football. Huge.

 

[NWPatsFan]

....If Brady and the Pats would have just come clean and said something like "Yes I instructed the equipment managers to lower the pressure as much as possible WITHIN the legal limits, and if that didn't happen I'm sorry and we'll fully cooperate and accept whatever punishment the league sees fit." Then Brady would have only got maybe a one game suspension, and a far less fine for the Pats....

I agree that this is true, but it still makes me sad in a way. Because what are we actually saying, here? If only Brady would have lied a bit more convincingly, we'd forgive everything.

This line of thinking reinforces the idea that this is "no big deal", "everybody does it", and "it didn't really do anything, so what's the problem here?"

But the fact of the matter is that this is a big deal. (At least in terms of sports, right?) The fumbling data is very, very troubling, and it seems quite likely that this has gone on for years, and has been effective. We can't say for sure how many games a year this little scheme was worth. A whole game? Half a game? That's no knowable. But over the course of seasons, this ill-gotten advantage has turned mediocre seasons into playoff years and wild card seasons into first-round byes. That's super significant in NFL football. Huge.

You sound a bit uninformed here.

The report shows that the balls lost pressure according to the Ideal Gas Law, with the exception of 4 balls. Those 4 balls had about .4 psi missing from them...that is about the same amount of deflation that happens when someone checks the pressure of a football.

Also, they wrote on page 228 of the report "In sum, the data did not provide a basis for us to determine with absolute certainty whether there was or was not tampering as the analysis of such data ultimately is dependent upon assumptions and information that is not certain."...

Basically the Patriots are being convicted of deflating balls when there is no data to back it up. It is ridiculous.

 

[NWPatsFan]

I have no doubt in my mind Brady is guilty of this, but this feels like the Bill Cosby thing when all kinds of different "victims" started to emerge.

The Colts have no reason to feel victimized, but if you're a fan or player on the Ravens with all the close games they've lost up in Foxboro over the years how could you not feel a little victimized and pissed off?

More grip on a football to pass, run and catch sure as hell doesn't make a difference when you just got your ass kicked by 30, but it sure might if you lost by 4.........and for how many years?

If we found out Brady did this in the SB, I guarantee you this forum would be on fire with fans feeling victimized.

There is no evidence of any balls being deflated. You are just making things up to support your jealousy of the best franchise in the NFL. It is silly to not even know the facts and make these claims.

 

[hawknation2015]

I have no doubt in my mind Brady is guilty of this, but this feels like the Bill Cosby thing when all kinds of different "victims" started to emerge.

The Colts have no reason to feel victimized, but if you're a fan or player on the Ravens with all the close games they've lost up in Foxboro over the years how could you not feel a little victimized and pissed off?

More grip on a football to pass, run and catch sure as hell doesn't make a difference when you just got your ass kicked by 30, but it sure might if you lost by 4.........and for how many years?

If we found out Brady did this in the SB, I guarantee you this forum would be on fire with fans feeling victimized.

There is no evidence of any balls being deflated. You are just making things up to support your jealousy of the best franchise in the NFL. It is silly to not even know the facts and make these claims.

How can you say there is NO EVIDENCE? Did you even read the report? If you haven't, please do so before continuing to debate this subject.

 

[ducks41468]

I can't help but be amused at the idea of delusional Pats fans with no prior exposure to chemistry casually throwing around references to the ideal gas law. "Ideal Gas Law" is the new most misinterpreted concept in sports since the "free speech" crusaders took over the message boards after the Donald Sterling incident.

 

[vonstout]

I have no doubt in my mind Brady is guilty of this, but this feels like the Bill Cosby thing when all kinds of different "victims" started to emerge.

The Colts have no reason to feel victimized, but if you're a fan or player on the Ravens with all the close games they've lost up in Foxboro over the years how could you not feel a little victimized and pissed off?

More grip on a football to pass, run and catch sure as hell doesn't make a difference when you just got your ass kicked by 30, but it sure might if you lost by 4.........and for how many years?

If we found out Brady did this in the SB, I guarantee you this forum would be on fire with fans feeling victimized.

There is no evidence of any balls being deflated. You are just making things up to support your jealousy of the best franchise in the NFL. It is silly to not even know the facts and make these claims.

How can you say there is NO EVIDENCE? Did you even read the report? If you haven't, please do so before continuing to debate this subject.

He read the report. He just won't accept the fact that his team is the best at cheating and justifies the "deflator" nickname since the beginning of the year as a joke even though nobody new anything about the deflating back then. The texts don't mean anything to him either. Or not cooperating in the investigation. They are the victims. Even if Brady buys his way out of the suspension everyone outside of Boston knows he is guilty, including Wells.

 

[BlueShoe]

I have no doubt in my mind Brady is guilty of this, but this feels like the Bill Cosby thing when all kinds of different "victims" started to emerge.

The Colts have no reason to feel victimized, but if you're a fan or player on the Ravens with all the close games they've lost up in Foxboro over the years how could you not feel a little victimized and pissed off?

More grip on a football to pass, run and catch sure as hell doesn't make a difference when you just got your ass kicked by 30, but it sure might if you lost by 4.........and for how many years?

If we found out Brady did this in the SB, I guarantee you this forum would be on fire with fans feeling victimized.

There is no evidence of any balls being deflated. You are just making things up to support your jealousy of the best franchise in the NFL. It is silly to not even know the facts and make these claims.

Do the patriots pay people to go around to other NFL message boards and defend them? You guys are on every board, defending your cheating team.

Sgt. Largent makes a good point, and your attempt to dismiss his point is awfully weak. Steve Largent had to work very hard to be great, and he is respected all around the league. I find it very funny that a patriots fan is defending his team cheating to someone whose moniker is Largent. You know what happens when someone who is respected argues with someone who is not respected?

I have read the Wells Report, and it is very damning. Brady got off very easy, because he was only punished for one night along with covering up what happened on that one night. There is enormous amount reasoning to believe the cheating had been going on for several years. Brady got off lucky because the NFL closed the door on the case for just the one night. Had the NFL dug deeper, we might have a Pete Rose incident on our hands.

 

[BlueShoe]

I can't help but be amused at the idea of delusional Pats fans with no prior exposure to chemistry casually throwing around references to the ideal gas law. "Ideal Gas Law" is the new most misinterpreted concept in sports since the "free speech" crusaders took over the message boards after the Donald Sterling incident.

It is all part of the entitlement fan experience. Pretty much all of them live in the same bubble, driven by the Boston media.

 

[BlueShoe]

....If Brady and the Pats would have just come clean and said something like "Yes I instructed the equipment managers to lower the pressure as much as possible WITHIN the legal limits, and if that didn't happen I'm sorry and we'll fully cooperate and accept whatever punishment the league sees fit." Then Brady would have only got maybe a one game suspension, and a far less fine for the Pats....

I agree that this is true, but it still makes me sad in a way. Because what are we actually saying, here? If only Brady would have lied a bit more convincingly, we'd forgive everything.

This line of thinking reinforces the idea that this is "no big deal", "everybody does it", and "it didn't really do anything, so what's the problem here?"

But the fact of the matter is that this is a big deal. (At least in terms of sports, right?) The fumbling data is very, very troubling, and it seems quite likely that this has gone on for years, and has been effective. We can't say for sure how many games a year this little scheme was worth. A whole game? Half a game? That's no knowable. But over the course of seasons, this ill-gotten advantage has turned mediocre seasons into playoff years and wild card seasons into first-round byes. That's super significant in NFL football. Huge.

You sound a bit uninformed here.

The report shows that the balls lost pressure according to the Ideal Gas Law, with the exception of 4 balls. Those 4 balls had about .4 psi missing from them...that is about the same amount of deflation that happens when someone checks the pressure of a football.

Also, they wrote on page 228 of the report "In sum, the data did not provide a basis for us to determine with absolute certainty whether there was or was not tampering as the analysis of such data ultimately is dependent upon assumptions and information that is not certain."...

Basically the Patriots are being convicted of deflating balls when there is no data to back it up. It is ridiculous.

We all know what happened. McNally took the footballs in the locker room and treated them like heroin addicts. I find it humorous; the amount of time pats fans spend trying to ignore the truth.

You obviously have not read the report because some of the patriots footballs were down to 10 psi when they were measured at halftime.

Colts Ball Blakeman Prioleau
1 12.70 12.35
2 12.75 12.30
3 12.50 12.95
4 12.55 12.15

Patriots Ball Blakeman Prioleau
1 11.50 11.80
2 10.85 11.20
3 11.15 11.50
4 10.70 11.00
5 11.10 11.45
6 11.60 11.95
7 11.85 12.30
8 11.10 11.55
9 10.95 11.35
10 10.50 10.90
11 10.90 11.35

Helpful they are; those things called facts.