Bengals vs Bills

[Ozzy]

I'm the opposite..but without any reputable updates we can only guess. As others have said oxygen to the brain or lack thereof is a serious concern. Are the machines still breathing for him? Brain function? Consciousness? We sadly dont know right now but I think the longer it goes without a positive update I dont think it'll be good..

Yeah I'm leaning that way now too. :/ Was trying to see the best here but it's not looking good.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

I don't honestly know much about it. I lost my dad back in April, and they did cpr on him for several minutes (congestive heart failure) I just can't even imagine seeing that in person like that family did, and his teammates and coaches.
The longer it goes, it doesn't feel like good news. But again, I know little to nothing about these things. Other than required AED/CPR training we take at work.

 

[MesquiteHawk]

Agreed. I was a line supervisor for 40 years, and there's a law in WA that requires anyone that supervises over X number of people to receive regular first aid training that includes CPR, so I've pushed down on and blown into a lot of dummies. It includes a lot of stuff besides CPR, ie choking, controlling bleeding, etc.

That is awesome! Prior to retirement, I taught CPR/First Aid to Chevron employees. I taught about 500 people a year and did my best to make it interesting and as “real world” as possible. A couple of things I did was to make them do CPR for a full 3 minutes to see just how difficult it is, and I would often play hysterical family member to add to their stress. No doubt PMedic would have many stories about that.

 

[Cyrus12]

Yeah I'm leaning that way now too. :/ Was trying to see the best here but it's not looking good.

I was hoping for a positive update this morning. I know there have been a bunch of tweets from sources claiming to be close but I dont put any weight on click seekers...

 

[Slick]

I hope he has a full recovery and can watch his team in the Super Bowl this year either from the sidelines or in his home.

 

[RiverDog]

I wouldn't necessarily assume the worst. Here's a possible prognosis:

 

[pmedic920]

Yes, in bold: it's the oxygen to brain issue.

This is WHY EARLY CPR is so important.
After initial collapse from sudden cardiac arrest, there is actually a few/ couple minutes worth of O2 still within the body’s blood.
Getting that blood circulating quickly is very important.
I couldn’t see but as close and well trained as that medical staff was, I have to assume they provided supplemental O2 in a timely manner.
Obviously I only have limited information, but I’d actually assume his brain is fairly safe from anoxic/hypoxic injury unless something happened during resuscitation that caused his lungs to become ineffective.
Pneumothorax (collapsed lung/s) this could have happened but not likely at initial injury, or aspiration of stomach contents.

 

[pmedic920]

A lot depends on the age of the PT and the cause of the heart issue, but you are correct. It is never a good thing. Also have to assume that they were doing CPR properly, so this kid is pretty broken up inside. I always taught that your goal was to break all of the ribs because you are working on a dead thing and you cannot hurt a dead thing. You can only hope to bring the dead thing back to life.

Yes it sounds harsh, but I find that the biggest weakness in bystander CPR is incomplete compressions due to not wanting to hurt the person. Must get that out of your head!

With all due respect:
If you were always taught the goal was to break ribs, you were always taught incorrectly.
Broken ribs from CPR is not uncommon, sometimes it happens and sometimes it doesn’t.
Sometimes it happens because of weak bones or frail patient. Sometimes it happens because the caregiver was being more forceful than necessary.
But most certainly breaking the persons ribs is not and should never be the goal.

 

[MesquiteHawk]

With all due respect:
If you were always taught the goal was to break ribs, you were always taught incorrectly.
Broken ribs from CPR is not uncommon, sometimes it happens and sometimes it doesn’t.
Sometimes it happens because of weak bones or frail patient. Sometimes it happens because the caregiver was being more forceful than necessary.
But most certainly breaking the persons ribs is not and should never be the goal.

It was more of a training tool because people seem to be afraid of hurting the person by doing deep enough compressions.

 

[RiverDog]

I think you're both right. I've had literally dozens of CPR classes, and they never said that the goal was to break bones. It was always put in the context that it was possible but not to be preoccupied with avoiding it.

CPR has changed over the years. They've put more emphasis on chest compressions and less on rescue breaths.

 

[pmedic920]

It was more of a training tool because people seem to be afraid of hurting the person by doing deep enough compressions.

I get that, I’ve been a CPR instructor for many years, I’ve been updated on the American Heart Association guidelines every time they have changed in the last 30 or so years.
It’s possible you misunderstood something because broken ribs is a common conversation with 1st time students but I stand my ground. If you were actually taught that the goal was to break ribs, you in fact were taught incorrectly.

I would not generally double down like this but that’s bad information/advice, I don’t want is spread here in conjunction with this topic.

Again this is with a due respect, I mean no ill will towards you.

 

[SantaClaraHawk]

At San Francisco 911, we weren’t told to break ribs. We were thought to press down, but Not that hard. This was 2006, and ProQA cards were still teaching the 30 Compressions to two rescue breaths.

Callers often refused to do it So we told them to do compressions only. I guess this is the standard method now.

Anyway, I administered cpr to resuscitate a man who had collapsed at Rehoboth in 2013. The other tip I got was to time the compressions to the tune of “Staying Alive.”

 

[pmedic920]

I think you're both right. I've had literally dozens of CPR classes, and they never said that the goal was to break bones. It was always put in the context that it was possible but not to be preoccupied with avoiding it.

CPR has changed over the years. They've put more emphasis on chest compressions and less on rescue breaths.

The guidelines absolutely do change and get updated.
There’s actually two classes now.
One for Healthcare Providers, and one is for laypersons.

Hands only CPR is what’s being taught for laypersons. Rescue breathing is optional based on available equipment and comfort level of provider.

 

[RiverDog]

At San Francisco 911, we weren’t told to break ribs. We were thought to press down, but Not that hard. This was 2006, and ProQA cards were still teaching the 30 Compressions to two rescue breaths.

Callers often refused to do it So we told them to do compressions only. I guess this is the standard method now.

Anyway, I administered cpr to resuscitate a man who had collapsed at Rehoboth in 2013. The other tip I got was to time the compressions to the tune of “Staying Alive.”

Yeah, I remember the 30/2 now that you mention it. But it didn't used to be that many compressions when I first started going to CPR classes back in the 80's.

 

[RiverDog]

The guidelines absolutely do change and get updated.
There’s actually two classes now.
One for Healthcare Providers, and one is for laypersons.

Hands only CPR is what’s being taught for laypersons. Rescue breathing is optional based on available equipment and comfort level of provider.

The classes I took were called Industrial First Aid, or at least that's what they were called at the end of my career.

They also taught us to team up with another trained individual, with one to do the compressions and the other rescue breaths, then trade off as the person doing the compressions began to tire.

 

[pmedic920]

At San Francisco 911, we weren’t told to break ribs. We were thought to press down, but Not that hard. This was 2006, and ProQA cards were still teaching the 30 Compressions to two rescue breaths.

Callers often refused to do it So we told them to do compressions only. I guess this is the standard method now.

Anyway, I administered cpr to resuscitate a man who had collapsed at Rehoboth in 2013. The other tip I got was to time the compressions to the tune of “Staying Alive.”

The staying alive beat is right at 100-120 beats per minute. That’s the goal for good quality CPR. it’s still used today by many instructors. Easy to remember in a stressful moment.

I’ll say this and leave it alone.
Broken ribs can and do happen during CPR but it should never be the goal.
I disagree with any instructor that has ever taught people to attempt to break ribs.
The rib cages primarily function it to suspend, support, and protect vital organs. Intentionally breaking ribs makes zero sense.

No disrespect to you either.

 

[SantaClaraHawk]

I will say that Breaking Bad provided two really good examples of how not to do cpr.

1. While rescue breathing isn’t encouraged, a 30/2 routine is better than done. Compressions are better than none. None was tried.

2. NEVER attempt to do cpr on a person in a regular bed. It will give too much making that effort useless as it was when Jesse attempted to resuscitate Jane. It was of course too late, but the first priority to Resuicitation is to put the pt on the floor at home.

 

[pmedic920]

I haven’t looked at any news yet today.

Has there been any official updates from the hospital, family, or NFL?

 

[RiverDog]

I haven’t looked at any news yet today.

Has there been any official updates from the hospital, family, or NFL?

The latest I heard was that his vitals had stabilized and that he was being sedated with a breathing tube inserted in is throat. But that was several hours ago. Still listed as critical.

 

[pmedic920]

The latest I heard was that his vitals had stabilized and that he was being sedated with a breathing tube inserted in is throat. But that was several hours ago. Still listed as critical.

I’m concerned with the fact that he’s still intubated.

Could mean nothing, could mean something very serious.

Getting people off the ventilator as soon a possible is a general goal.

Many reasons for people to be on a ventilator. Probably the three major ones are:

Person is not or can not breathe on their own. There are way too many reasons for this to speculate.

Person can not protect their own airway.
They are unconscious/comatose

Doctors have reason to keep the patient sedated.

Obviously there are other reasons but those are the big ones that come to mind right now.