At what cost do you keep Sidney Rice?

[justafan]

I like Rice but they will win with him or without him.I would rather see what these young guys can do.
Great guy class act but he hasnt been a difference maker

 

[Basis4day]

At what cost? At the cost of Ricardo Lockette, who could probably be signed to the practice squad.

Lockette is no longer eligible for PS. There are a couple different eligibility requirements. The one affecting Lockette is that he has 3 years of PS used by being on PS with the same team for 3 weeks in a single season.

2011: Seahawks
2012: Niners
2013: Bears

 

[Tokadub]

Funny how everyone is writing off Rice already. If hes healthy he could make the team and even be one of our top receivers with ease.

I think the battle between Kearse and Rice for playing time could be very competitive. I dont think Kearse is a lock by any means. Could even throw in Chris Mathews into that mix just not sure if hes fast and smooth enough for the NFL.

I also have a really good feeling about Norwood i think he could be perfect for our offense.

So overall a very nice draft but im still very concerned about our Oline pass protection.

 

[Hasselbeck]

Funny how everyone is writing off Rice already. If hes healthy he could make the team and even be one of our top receivers with ease.

I think the battle between Kearse and Rice for playing time could be very competitive. I dont think Kearse is a lock by any means. Could even throw in Chris Mathews into that mix just not sure if hes fast and smooth enough for the NFL.

I also have a really good feeling about Norwood i think he could be perfect for our offense.

So overall a very nice draft but im still very concerned about our Oline pass protection.

Kearse isn't getting cut in favor of a guy that hasn't been healthy in 2 years and missed significant time every season but one.

Matthews will have to have an AMAZING TC and preseason to make the team.. I think he's likely going to the practice squad. Could see us paying him a little more to stay on the P-Squad instead of going to a team that may claim him.

The 6th WR spot will come down to Norwood, Rice and Lockette IMO. Rice is on the outside looking in.

 

[Biggiec76]

Wow what are the odds 2 if not more recievers suffer an injury before the first game. Just saying it happens its not a perfect world. injuries are a big part of any nfl team and that is luck, we lost guys last season but it was very incredible we were not exposed for those injuries and key positions were not affected except the oline.

 

[joeshaney]

Harvin and Baldwin are locks
Richardson and Kearse are also locks (barring catastrophe)

This leaves 2 spots to fill the Red Zone/Special Teams role.
Unless Rice balls out (thus pushing Kearse down to one of these last 2 spots, these players all have an equally fair shot at nailing down those last two spots:
Norwood 6'2
Bates 6'1
Matthews 6'5
Lockette 6'2

All in all, that leaves 5 dudes (rice/norwood/bates/matthews/lockette) fighting for two spots unless anyone is either in denial that Kearse/Richardson are locks or believe Pete would prefer adding more smallish quick receivers into those final two spots rather than red zone/special teamers.

 

[Lost Puppy]

I think they need a camp to see what Mathews has and if Rice still has "it". I don't see Lockett making this team. I think Chris Mathews is going to be interesting to watch.

 

[Tokadub]

Kearse isn't getting cut in favor of a guy that hasn't been healthy in 2 years and missed significant time every season but one.

I'm not saying Kearse will be cut, but I don't think we can just automatically rank him above Sidney Rice either.

I think Kearse has a ton of potential, but on what basis are we saying he's a lock for the team? I just want to hear some of the reasoning why he's guaranteed to be ranked higher than some of our other guys?

Kearse has 377 regular season yards in his entire 2 year career. 346 yards in 2013 regular season.

For reference Marshawn Lynch had 316 receiving yards on only 6 more targets (Lynch had 44 targets, Kearse had 38).

Just think about that for a second... our running back had more targets and nearly as many receiving yards as the guy you guys consider a 100% guaranteed lock to win his spot...

Kearse was also the only guy in our top 6 receivers who had a catch rate lower than 60% (22 / 38 = 57.89%)

The other 5 top receivers had a combined catch rate of (203 / 299 = 67.89%)

So Kearse had a 10% lower catch rate than 5/6 of our other top receivers on average.

So don't take this post the wrong way, I do like Kearse, and I do think he should be able to get playing time next season. But I just don't think his spot is as safe as most you guys assume. He really hasn't produced at a high level stat wise.

And we gotta remember he's playing with fricken Russell Wilson... I tend to believe Wilson can make guys look better than they really are, his touch is so good that even Lynch had a catch rate of nearly 82% compared to Kearse's 57.89%

Plus I think Lockette is really under rated and hasn't had a legit shot at receiver. Lockette had only 7 targets, but he caught 5 of them for an average of 16.4 yards (Highest on team except Harvin had one reception for 17 yards). So it's a bit strange he didn't get a few more targets.

Everyone is wetting themselves over Paul Richardsons 4.33 40 yard dash, but maybe not too many people know that Ricardo Lockette has a 4.34 (insane for a 6'2'' guy)? Plus Lockette is insane on special teams so I would be really surprised if he doesn't make the team.

If I had to rank the receivers right now it would be:

1) Harvin (if healthy)
2) Baldwin
3) Rice (if healthy)
4) Kearse
5) Norwood (should be higher than Kearse but no NFL experience)
6) Richardson (should be higher than Kearse but no NFL experience)
7) Lockette (should make team for blazing speed + special teams)

I don't know why, but from just watching his highlights I have a REALLY good feeling about Norwood when paired with Wilson.

Also I didn't even list Chris Matthews since he looked a bit awkward and slow in his highlights, but dude seems to know how to get open and can get position on the defender and make some great catches. But even Matthews could give Kearse a run for his money in theory since he's 6'5'', and did win the CFL's "Most Outstanding Rookie Award" (not sure if that means ANYTHING coming from the CFL haha...)

So judging by my list and assuming that Rice is healthy Kearse is actually the odd man out for my top 6. That's assuming Norwood and Richardson are as good as I think they'll be which is better than Kearse... but they have to prove it on the field.

 

[joeshaney]

I could see Kearse being cut.....Highly doubtful but if he doesn't continue to put in work and study he could be passed.

 

[SeaTown81]

I just wanted to mention this because I've seen on a few occasions fans acting like Sidney Rice is washed up, while Ricardo Lockette is some sort of upside potential guy worth keeping over him.

Sidney Rice: September 1, 1986 (age 27)
Ricardo Lockette: May 21, 1986 (age 27)

Lockette is older! Rice has been in the league longer because he came out of college after his sophomore year. Heck, Rice is only 3 years older than Kevin Norwood. Dude isn't some old washed up receiver.

The only knock on Rice is his injury issues. That is a real issue. His contract is no longer of concern. IF he's able to come back from his ACL (and a lot of players are these days), he is a highly valuable piece to this offense. One of the more skilled receivers they have. And currently the only 6'4" option at the position. Teams have to defend him differently than they do everyone else we have.

Pretty silly how many fans are writing this dude off. He'll need to prove he's healthy, sure. But it seems a lot of people are writing him off even if healthy. Really don't get it.

 

[sutz]

I just wanted to mention this because I've seen on a few occasions fans acting like Sidney Rice is washed up, while Ricardo Lockette is some sort of upside potential guy worth keeping over him.

Sidney Rice: September 1, 1986 (age 27)
Ricardo Lockette: May 21, 1986 (age 27)

Lockette is older! Rice has been in the league longer because he came out of college after his sophomore year.

The only knock on Rice is his injury issues. His contract is no longer of concern. IF healthy he is a highly valuable piece to this offense. One of the more skilled receivers they have. And currently the only 6'4" option at the position.

Pretty silly how many fans are writing this dude off. He'll need to prove he's healthy, sure. But it seems a lot of people are writing him off even if healthy. Really don't get it.

Good point. Rice is younger--although only a couple of months--with more experience and arguably better skills.

 

[MizzouHawkGal]

I just wanted to mention this because I've seen on a few occasions fans acting like Sidney Rice is washed up, while Ricardo Lockette is some sort of upside potential guy worth keeping over him.

Sidney Rice: September 1, 1986 (age 27)
Ricardo Lockette: May 21, 1986 (age 27)

Lockette is older! Rice has been in the league longer because he came out of college after his sophomore year. Heck, Rice is only 3 years older than Kevin Norwood. Dude isn't some old washed up receiver.

The only knock on Rice is his injury issues. That is a real issue. His contract is no longer of concern. IF he's able to come back from his ACL (and a lot of players are these days), he is a highly valuable piece to this offense. One of the more skilled receivers they have. And currently the only 6'4" option at the position. Teams have to defend him differently than they do everyone else we have.

Pretty silly how many fans are writing this dude off. He'll need to prove he's healthy, sure. But it seems a lot of people are writing him off even if healthy. Really don't get it.

They never liked the contract seperate from the injuries and keep forgetting the contract is a non-issue now because it completely destroys their point of view. And Lockette being the same age pretty much says to me that he is a lock to make the roster unless an anvil falls from the sky and smashes him if he is at all healthy.

 

[haroldseattle]

Rice was on pace for a 34 catches, 528 yards, and 7TD year before tearing his ACL last year. Nothing to write home about. Now is going to have to recover from a ACL, lots of players struggle the year after tearing a ACL. IMO Rice is going to struggle to make the roster. The one thing he has going for him is his size, but if that doesn't translate to results on the field, he'll be a roster cut, because of his injury history and not being useful on ST. Seahawks just have better options this year.

 

[SeaTown81]

Rice was on pace for a 34 catches, 528 yards, and 7TD year before tearing his ACL last year. Nothing to write home about. Now is going to have to recover from a ACL, lots of players struggle the year after tearing a ACL. IMO Rice is going to struggle to make the roster. The one thing he has going for him is his size, but if that doesn't translate to results on the field, he'll be a roster cut, because of his injury history and not being useful on ST. Seahawks just have better options this year.

Since when do Seahawks wr's get big numbers worthy of you holding those numbers against Rice?

Had Sidney Rice ended the season with 7 TD's, he would've LED THE TEAM. Baldwin, Tate, & Miller tied for the lead last year with 5 a piece. Yards and catches would've been 3rd behind Baldwin and Tate. And once again let's reiterate that we're talking about a team that finished in the bottom 3 for passing attempts last year where NOBODY puts up big receiving numbers. So by all means, illustrate how useless and replaceable Rice is with offensive production statistics.

Maybe Rice will have trouble with his injury recovery. That is something that can be said for any player returning from an ACL (more and more are coming back in record time, btw). But beyond that, some of you guys are going to need to get over past the "bust" label you've branded Rice with. So he didn't live up to his free agent deal. So what? He's not making a ton of money anymore. If healthy, the guy can contribute to the team. But whatever. Let's just dump the 6'4" 27 year old wide receiver with starting experience for some fringe special teamer because bitchy fans turned on the guy for not meeting their all-pro expectations. Yeah, that sounds about right.

I will say for the millionth time. If he's not recovered fully, it's an entirely different story. But I know a "the fans have made their mind up via lazy group-think and found their scape goat" when I see it. It's fairly easy to spot. It generally happens when a player doesn't live up to a lofty contract. The fans get mad, make up their mind, and will never be convinced otherwise.

 

[haroldseattle]

Rice was on pace for a 34 catches, 528 yards, and 7TD year before tearing his ACL last year. Nothing to write home about. Now is going to have to recover from a ACL, lots of players struggle the year after tearing a ACL. IMO Rice is going to struggle to make the roster. The one thing he has going for him is his size, but if that doesn't translate to results on the field, he'll be a roster cut, because of his injury history and not being useful on ST. Seahawks just have better options this year.

Since when do Seahawks wr's get big numbers worthy of you holding those numbers against Rice?

[b]Had Sidney Rice ended the season with 7 TD's, he would've LED THE TEAM[/b]. Baldwin, Tate, & Miller tied for the lead last year with 5 a piece. Yards and catches would've been 3rd behind Baldwin and Tate. And once again let's reiterate that we're talking about a team that finished in the bottom 3 for passing attempts last year where NOBODY puts up big receiving numbers. So by all means, illustrate how useless and replaceable Rice is with offensive production statistics.

Maybe Rice will have trouble with his injury recovery. That is something that can be said for any player returning from an ACL (more and more are coming back in record time, btw). But beyond that, some of you guys are going to need to get over past the "bust" label you've branded Rice with. So he didn't live up to his free agent deal. So what? He's not making a ton of money anymore. If healthy, the guy can contribute to the team. But whatever. Let's just dump the 6'4" 27 year old wide receiver with starting experience for some fringe special teamer because bitchy fans turned on the guy for not meeting their all-pro expectations. Yeah, that sounds about right.

I will say for the millionth time. If he's not recovered fully, it's an entirely different story. But I know a "the fans have made their mind up via lazy group-think and found their scape goat" when I see it. It's fairly easy to spot. It generally happens when a player doesn't live up to a lofty contract. The fans get mad, make up their mind, and will never be convinced otherwise.

Yeah I get that the Seahawks are a run first team and WRs don't get to put up huge numbers. Never the less for a receiver playing the X receiver or split end , those are bad numbers even on a run first team. Certainly doesn't stand out from the crowd. In fact Kearse had more TDs in the same # of games, also more receptions and yardage. Time for Rice to step it up, just because he's the one receiver with height, doesn't mean he gets a pass for lack of production.

 

[SeaTown81]

Rice was on pace for a 34 catches, 528 yards, and 7TD year before tearing his ACL last year. Nothing to write home about. Now is going to have to recover from a ACL, lots of players struggle the year after tearing a ACL. IMO Rice is going to struggle to make the roster. The one thing he has going for him is his size, but if that doesn't translate to results on the field, he'll be a roster cut, because of his injury history and not being useful on ST. Seahawks just have better options this year.

Since when do Seahawks wr's get big numbers worthy of you holding those numbers against Rice?

[b]Had Sidney Rice ended the season with 7 TD's, he would've LED THE TEAM[/b]. Baldwin, Tate, & Miller tied for the lead last year with 5 a piece. Yards and catches would've been 3rd behind Baldwin and Tate. And once again let's reiterate that we're talking about a team that finished in the bottom 3 for passing attempts last year where NOBODY puts up big receiving numbers. So by all means, illustrate how useless and replaceable Rice is with offensive production statistics.

Maybe Rice will have trouble with his injury recovery. That is something that can be said for any player returning from an ACL (more and more are coming back in record time, btw). But beyond that, some of you guys are going to need to get over past the "bust" label you've branded Rice with. So he didn't live up to his free agent deal. So what? He's not making a ton of money anymore. If healthy, the guy can contribute to the team. But whatever. Let's just dump the 6'4" 27 year old wide receiver with starting experience for some fringe special teamer because bitchy fans turned on the guy for not meeting their all-pro expectations. Yeah, that sounds about right.

I will say for the millionth time. If he's not recovered fully, it's an entirely different story. But I know a "the fans have made their mind up via lazy group-think and found their scape goat" when I see it. It's fairly easy to spot. It generally happens when a player doesn't live up to a lofty contract. The fans get mad, make up their mind, and will never be convinced otherwise.

Yeah I get that the Seahawks are a run first team and WRs don't get to put up huge numbers. Never the less for a receiver playing the X receiver or split end , those are bad numbers even on a run first team. Certainly doesn't stand out from the crowd. In fact Kearse had more TDs in the same # of games, also more receptions and yardage. Time for Rice to step it up, just because he's the one receiver with height, doesn't mean he gets a pass for lack of production.

That's a great argument if you're arguing against a guy making $9 million a year. But not so much for a player of Rice's talents making $1 million. The only thing keeping him off the team at that price will be his health of if the team decides to keep a small number of wide receivers. Rice isn't getting beat out by Ricardo Lockette or Bryan Walters.

 

[haroldseattle]

Rice was on pace for a 34 catches, 528 yards, and 7TD year before tearing his ACL last year. Nothing to write home about. Now is going to have to recover from a ACL, lots of players struggle the year after tearing a ACL. IMO Rice is going to struggle to make the roster. The one thing he has going for him is his size, but if that doesn't translate to results on the field, he'll be a roster cut, because of his injury history and not being useful on ST. Seahawks just have better options this year.

Since when do Seahawks wr's get big numbers worthy of you holding those numbers against Rice?

[b]Had Sidney Rice ended the season with 7 TD's, he would've LED THE TEAM[/b]. Baldwin, Tate, & Miller tied for the lead last year with 5 a piece. Yards and catches would've been 3rd behind Baldwin and Tate. And once again let's reiterate that we're talking about a team that finished in the bottom 3 for passing attempts last year where NOBODY puts up big receiving numbers. So by all means, illustrate how useless and replaceable Rice is with offensive production statistics.

Maybe Rice will have trouble with his injury recovery. That is something that can be said for any player returning from an ACL (more and more are coming back in record time, btw). But beyond that, some of you guys are going to need to get over past the "bust" label you've branded Rice with. So he didn't live up to his free agent deal. So what? He's not making a ton of money anymore. If healthy, the guy can contribute to the team. But whatever. Let's just dump the 6'4" 27 year old wide receiver with starting experience for some fringe special teamer because bitchy fans turned on the guy for not meeting their all-pro expectations. Yeah, that sounds about right.

I will say for the millionth time. If he's not recovered fully, it's an entirely different story. But I know a "the fans have made their mind up via lazy group-think and found their scape goat" when I see it. It's fairly easy to spot. It generally happens when a player doesn't live up to a lofty contract. The fans get mad, make up their mind, and will never be convinced otherwise.

Yeah I get that the Seahawks are a run first team and WRs don't get to put up huge numbers. Never the less for a receiver playing the X receiver or split end , those are bad numbers even on a run first team. Certainly doesn't stand out from the crowd. In fact Kearse had more TDs in the same # of games, also more receptions and yardage. Time for Rice to step it up, just because he's the one receiver with height, doesn't mean he gets a pass for lack of production.

That's a great argument if you're arguing against a guy making $9 million a year. But not so much for a player of Rice's talents making $1 million. The only thing keeping him off the team at that price will be his health of if the team decides to keep a small number of wide receivers. Rice isn't getting beat out by Ricardo Lockette or Bryan Walters.

Coming off a ACL tear , you got to expect that he's not going to 100% and I have him as maybe a #6 receiver, behind Harvin, Baldwin, Kearse, Richardson, and Norwood. He not playing STs so his value drops. I think a player like Lockett could add more value as a gunner on STs then Rice sitting on the bench watching the game.

 

[SeaTown81]

Coming off a ACL tear , you got to expect that he's not going to 100% and I have him as maybe a #6 receiver, behind Harvin, Baldwin, Kearse, Richardson, and Norwood. He not playing STs so his value drops. I think a player like Lockett could add more value as a gunner on STs then Rice sitting on the bench watching the game.

If Rice makes the team and is healthy, he's not sitting on the bench the entire game. He wasn't sitting on the bench before he went out. He fits in well in a rotation with guys like Harvin, Baldwin, and Kearse. As I said before, he offers an element that forces teams to play the other guys differently. He has value beyond plays where he is thrown the ball.

And it's not as crazy to think he'll be able to rebound from his ACL. Have you been paying attention to the number of players who are coming back from ACL's every year? RG3 and Chris Clemons both tore their ACL's in the POST-SEASON two years ago and were back in time for the next season. Rice went out mid-season. It's not a given he'll be 100%. But ACL's aren't holding guys back like they used to. (whatever reason that is. be it improved medicine, or improved "medicicine.)

I like Richardson and Norwood's potential. But don't forget how long it takes some rookie wr's to adjust to the NFL. You can't just assume they'll step in and immediately produce. They could very well be this year's Christine Michael.

If the team decides to only keep 5 wr's, it will be interesting to see how it plays out. But if they keep 6, which I think they will, a healthy Rice vs Lockette is a stupid debate to have. And the only way I see Chris Matthews beating out Rice is if he turns out to be the find of the season. Not simply looking intriguing like Stephen Williams did last year.

 

[haroldseattle]

Coming off a ACL tear , you got to expect that he's not going to 100% and I have him as maybe a #6 receiver, behind Harvin, Baldwin, Kearse, Richardson, and Norwood. He not playing STs so his value drops. I think a player like Lockett could add more value as a gunner on STs then Rice sitting on the bench watching the game.

If Rice makes the team and is healthy, he's not sitting on the bench the entire game. He wasn't sitting on the bench before he went out. He fits in well in a rotation with guys like Harvin, Baldwin, and Kearse. As I said before, he offers an element that forces teams to play the other guys differently. He has value beyond plays where he is thrown the ball.

And it's not as crazy to think he'll be able to rebound from his ACL. Have you been paying attention to the number of players who are coming back from ACL's every year? RG3 and Chris Clemons both tore their ACL's in the POST-SEASON two years ago and were back in time for the next season. Rice went out mid-season. It's not a given he'll be 100%. But ACL's aren't holding guys back like they used to. (whatever reason that is. be it improved medicine, or improved "medicicine.)

I like Richardson and Norwood's potential. But don't forget how long it takes some rookie wr's to adjust to the NFL. You can't just assume they'll step in and immediately produce. They could very well be this year's Christine Michael.

If the team decides to only keep 5 wr's, it will be interesting to see how it plays out. But if they keep 6, which I think they will, a healthy Rice vs Lockette is a stupid debate to have. And the only way I see Chris Matthews beating out Rice is if he turns out to be the find of the season. Not simply looking intriguing like Stephen Williams did last year.

Yes, it takes rookie WRs to adjust, which is why Richardson will be the fourth receiver to start the season. Every sign I've seen says the Seahawks are sold on Richardson upside and will try to develop him. That would make him the fourth receiver in my books. 5th and 6th receivers rarely see the field, thus they need to be able to contribute on STs to stay on the roster. IMO Rice was insurance in case the draft went wrong and the Seahawks missed out on the receivers they wanted. I think the Seahawks got the receivers they wanted and Rice is on the bubble at best.

 

[Jville]

That Sidney is smart. He knows how to ignore the noise ...........
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