Why Are Fans So Upset?

knownone

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Wow. At what point will it take you to realize they don't have the talent to compete for a title? What do you need to see for you to believe it? How many stars are on the Hawks' roster? How many? How many near .500 seasons does there need to be before you believe? The Oline has less than $20 million invested in it and is one of the worst in the league and you and JS think it's a post season/championship caliber roster.

If JS thinks this is a championship caliber roster than he needed to go with Pete, because he's part of the problem.

Let me just say this, I promise you the current roster will look different next season.
At what point do you realize they do? Metcalf, Lockett, JSN, Williams, Murphy, Hall, Mafe, Witherspoon, Love, Cross, Walker, etc. Seattle's a flawed team. They are not some black hole of talent. And let's be clear: when I was blaming talent on the O-line and the front seven for Seattle's struggles the last two seasons, people were telling me it was a scheme issue. Now, these same people have inverted their arguments. I wonder why.

Again, we don't need to assume what JS thinks. He told us. You just don't believe him. And I agree, the roster will be different, but not for the reasons you think. The average roster turnover rate is around 45%. Change is a constant.
 

keasley45

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Could they not see or understand the state of the team? The Hawks are an average to bad team and have been for the past 3 or so seasons. For the life of me, I don't know how anybody truly thought they would beat Buffalo. There's an enomous amount of things that need fixed with only so many resources and so much time. I said it earlier on that I thought Seattle was probably the worst team in the division and that may be true. MM might not be the answer long term, but he's a proven defensive guy and he at least should have the team headed in the right direction by year 3. So calm down. It's going to be a process and it should have been expected.
Pretty myopic view of the team. But youve been beating the 'they have no players' drum for a while.

Fact is, they do have players. The takent thats on this team is known and has been the subject of discussion among analysts and pundits over the last year.

Simple fact is, bad coaching nullifies talent. Good players lose when the coaching sucks. And good culture eroded when leadership fails.

Both of those things plagued the tail end of Pete's tenure. It didnt much matter how good you were because the coaching method and message had been lost. The culture of accountability had failed.

Some element of the above (if i had to venture a guess) is at play with the team now. Mike, by all accounts, knows his stuff. But the absolute achilles heal of most any young leader, regardless of their talent or knowledge, is their ability to expand what they know and who they are to reach their entire team. That holds true whether you are in the corporate world or in sports. The leader HAS to be present, accountable, and have the reach to maintainnthe standard of excellence that is required to attain success. AND IF THEY CANT DO IT ALONE, the team around them HAS to be able to be an extension of their message... HAS to be the arm hat maintains accountanility. And to do that, you HAVE to have experienced advisors who know their $hit and command the respect the leader garners when the leader isnt present.

Do we have that? Does Mike have those guys on staff? Im skeptical he does. And the one seasoned NFL guy he does have in Frasier, has never been known to be a vocal, up front type of leader.

So who do you have manning things when Mike is busy trying to imprint his philosphy on the team? Grubb and Durdy.

Is Durdy seasoned enough to know the defense and lead it so that Mike can step away and lead the entire team? I think not.

Has Grubb ever showed the aptitude or Chops to actually LEAD an offense and not just call plays? I havent seen it. He isnt even on the sidelines.

How about special teams? The youngest of the Harbaugh clan, pulled up from college. Is he the one with the experirence to show the leadership needed?

And so who is there on gameday or at practice to demand that all facets of the team are operating with precision and accuracy? Who is it? Because just about every coach we have on staff is doing their job at the pro level for the first time.

It was no coincidence that Lesley F was brought in to help maintain order and provide council. I think having him here was John's acknowledgment that this experiment with all the young guns coukd backfire if there isnt SOMEONE who has done the job before helping to maintain order and set a standard.

When we have lost it has been because lack of discipline, lack of an edge and lack of intensity. But there have also been schematic issues.

Part of the OCs job (and his staff) is to help the DC gameplan what the opposotion is likely to do in the upcoming week. THAT job is CRITICAL in helping a defense prepare for what they might see. If that job isnt being done at a high level, your prep over the coursr of a week is wasted. What's the likelihood the first time NFL segnala caller who, by all accounts ALREADY seems in over his head has the skill to help scout the opposition and deploy a viable strategy at practice to help the D? How well do you think he's doing that job if he can't even scheme an effective rushing attack?

The problem is NOT the talent.

NOTHING needs to be blown up and restarted.

The leadership on this team needs to simply lead. Mike has to figure out WTF to do with an OC who cant scheme run plays and refuses to come out of the box. And for everyone who says Grubb isnt the problem, rmemember how completely disjointed and ineffective his Washington squad looked in the championship game? The dude had no answer for getting smacked in the mouth by an NFL styled defense. What is different now? Every week, we are outmuscled and outhustled by defenses that bitchslap us across the field. And despite all of the logic that says the best way to help a winded o line thats getting pushed around in pass pro is by running the ball, he refuses to do it.and if he isnt running because the online is entirely oncapable of opening a hole, they need to replace the o line coach yesterday and tell Grubb he is next if things dont improve.

Its simply not conceivable that the 5 guys we have in front of Geno are THAT inept. Williams was a prized get in FA. Cross was rated the best LT in college football. Fant is beyind serviceable. Are our guards literally the worst players at their position in the league? No way.

Are Reed, Murphy, Jones, Mafe and big Cat among the worst line talents assembled in this league? No way.

They are just playing like it because the leadership is faltering.

And thats not to say it has hoplessly failed. The sign of great leadership after all is knowing what to do when things arent going well and being able charting a way to success by correcting errors in the system.

By now, thise errors SHOULD be evident. And for all we know, Mike and John might already know that their DC, OC and certian position coaches arent cutting it. But what, at this point are they going to do? If they yank Grubb, who takes his place? If they pull Durdy... well, Mike could actually just get Frazier to step in... but that's assuming Durdy is part of the problem. But one would have to assume he is for his side of the ball to be playing as uninspired as it has.

For the teak to play so well one week and then fall completely flat the next... that's not players. It's coaching.

Fix the coaching. But don't cut Mike when there enough evidence pointing to the inexperienced of his staff as being a likely contributor to the problems we are seeing.
The young, inexperienced coach CANNOT be surrounded by assistants who are less experienced than he is.

Its just not a good recipe for success.
 
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Natethegreat

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I get into arguments because I defend my posts against lazy attacks/responses—like the guy who said I was "flat out wrong" for saying Stone Forsythe started last season. I don't care if people are on my side or not. You telling me the line is not similar because it is 60% the same is semantics. That's you and others disagreeing with my characterization or word choice. There is nothing incorrect with my statement, though. Yet, here you are, telling me there is based on your arbitrary interpretation of the word.
I said the statement that the line is similar to last year is flat out wrong and it is. Going into the year, 3 out of 5 starters are different than last years starters. The fact that Stone Forsythe our third stringer is still here and made some starts doesn't change that fact.
You are saying the lines are similar so we should have similar ability to run the ball. Your point is based on something that isn't true. 60% of the starters from last year are different. LG, Center, and RT all different starters from last year. 60% change over is massive change from one year to the next. We literally had more new players on the line starting than holdovers from last year.
And RG has a new addition in Christian Haynes that is subbing in at times too.
 
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pittpnthrs

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At what point do you realize they do? Metcalf, Lockett, JSN, Williams, Murphy, Hall, Mafe, Witherspoon, Love, Cross, Walker, etc. Seattle's a flawed team. They are not some black hole of talent. And let's be clear: when I was blaming talent on the O-line and the front seven for Seattle's struggles the last two seasons, people were telling me it was a scheme issue. Now, these same people have inverted their arguments. I wonder why.

Again, we don't need to assume what JS thinks. He told us. You just don't believe him. And I agree, the roster will be different, but not for the reasons you think. The average roster turnover rate is around 45%. Change is a constant.

Not one of those players you listed is an NFL superstar except for maybe DK. Nobody on the streets would know any of them except for maybe DK. They are talented, but not stars. This is what i'm talking about when I speak of the roster. There are some pieces, but the over all sum isn't there talent wise.

Don't know who was saying the Oline's issues were caused by scheme because the Oline has sucked for years now.

You have convinced me of something though. JS is a problem. He's the one that thinks the roster is championship caliber, but yet admits that guards are overrated and too expensive. And look at the Oline. You believe him though. Not sure why.
 
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pittpnthrs

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Simple fact is, bad coaching nullifies talent. Good players lose when the coaching sucks. And good culture eroded when leadership fails.

The problem is NOT the talent.

Again, at what point is the coaching not the problem? Pete couldn't succeed with this roster and now an entire new regime is having the same struggles. There isn't a staff in the league that could get a good post season run, yet a title out of this roster.
 

Maelstrom787

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Again, at what point is the coaching not the problem? Pete couldn't succeed with this roster and now an entire new regime is having the same struggles. There isn't a staff in the league that could get a good post season run, yet a title out of this roster.
So... you think the roster is the issue, yet fault Pete for getting 9-8 out of a roster that Jesus Christ himself in your view couldn't push into contention?

I don't get it, man. Why fire him if roster construction was the issue? Why not advocate to shitcan John Schneider instead, who by all accounts had a larger hand in making most rostering decisions than Pete did because Pete let him do the job he hired him for?

This seems incompatible with your arguments from previous years about the state of the team.

Not only that, but the issues we're seeing right now aren't really... the same. This is a roster that has won 4 games while playing in a basic state of confusion in a barely-cognizant offensive scheme and a defense that doesn't even know how to fit the run yet.

With how poor the overall execution has been and just how devastatingly sloppy the offense in particular has been, one could argue that being .500 is a testament to our talent level rather than an indictment against it.
 
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pittpnthrs

pittpnthrs

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So... you think the roster is the issue, yet fault Pete for getting 9-8 out of a roster that Jesus Christ himself in your view couldn't push into contention?

I don't get it, man. Why fire him if roster construction was the issue? Why not advocate to shitcan John Schneider instead, who by all accounts had a larger hand in making most rostering decisions than Pete did because Pete let him do the job he hired him for?

This seems incompatible with your arguments from previous years about the state of the team.

Not only that, but the issues we're seeing right now aren't really... the same. This is a roster that has won 4 games while playing in a basic state of confusion in a barely-cognizant offensive scheme and a defense that doesn't even know how to fit the run yet.

With how poor the overall execution has been and just how devastatingly sloppy the offense in particular has been, one could argue that being .500 is a testament to our talent level rather than an indictment against it.

First, what is 9-8? With the extra game, it's as close to .500 as a team can possibly be. It's a mediocre record and a mediocre roster. What is the teams record now?

Why fire him? The roster we're talking about is his for cripes sake. Also, I do hold JS accountable. He should have been given the boot with Pete and is currently on the hot seat. The only kind of pass I can possibly give him is I still believe Pete had the final say in things and overrode him some. Looking at the big picture now, I wish they would have canned him too.

Previous years, the roster had more talent and was bogged down by incompetent coaching. It's been a steady regression for a long time.

The 4 games Seattle has won have been against teams with no real stature. Mediocre teams beat other mediocre teams all the time.

Yeah, the Hawks might have more talent than some other mediocre teams. What is that going to get you?

I just don't get it Mael. Carroll couldn't do anything with this roster and you seemed fine with that and even applauded his efforts. A new staff was brought in and they are getting similiar results and they are suddenly complete garbage in your eyes. Doesn't make much sense.

Hell, Dan Campbells first year the Lions won 1 game. Can we at least give this staff a chance to make some changes?
 

MORGULON

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First, what is 9-8? With the extra game, it's as close to .500 as a team can possibly be. It's a mediocre record and a mediocre roster. What is the teams record now?

Why fire him? The roster we're talking about is his for cripes sake. Also, I do hold JS accountable. He should have been given the boot with Pete and is currently on the hot seat. The only kind of pass I can possibly give him is I still believe Pete had the final say in things and overrode him some. Looking at the big picture now, I wish they would have canned him too.

Previous years, the roster had more talent and was bogged down by incompetent coaching. It's been a steady regression for a long time.

The 4 games Seattle has won have been against teams with no real stature. Mediocre teams beat other mediocre teams all the time.

Yeah, the Hawks might have more talent than some other mediocre teams. What is that going to get you?

I just don't get it Mael. Carroll couldn't do anything with this roster and you seemed fine with that and even applauded his efforts. A new staff was brought in and they are getting similiar results and they are suddenly complete garbage in your eyes. Doesn't make much sense.

Hell, Dan Campbells first year the Lions won 1 game. Can we at least give this staff a chance to make some changes?
Who said John Schneider is on the "hot seat"?
 
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