What is the value in the last second snap?

[Forthewin]

I have heard a ton of negitive about waiting for the last second to snap the ball, so I get that side. But what is the reasons to wait? I could understand reading the D, but most if the time, Russ is getting under center with 2 seconds to go.

 

[Fade]

I have heard a ton of negitive about waiting for the last second to snap the ball, so I get that side. But what is the reasons to wait? I could understand reading the D, but most if the time, Russ is getting under center with 2 seconds to go.

The negatives far outweigh the positives, outside of special circumstances, IMO.

But here is why Pete likes it.

It shortens the game. Why would he want to do this?

Less plays = less chance of injury, keep players fresher over the course of a long season. Every play is a car crash.

Less plays = harder to get blown out, you're pretty much guaranteed to be in the game in the 4th qtr.

Less plays = showing less plays on film, rope-a-dope, save them for a future opponent when you really need it. Even just try to win with your base stuff starting out. Show as little as you need to win the football game.

Less plays = with a strong running game, makes it to where you can play keep away from the opponent, making it hard for them to score a lot of points. This tied in with his no turnovers philosophy makes them really hard to beat. Especially if you can get a couple of turnovers from the opponent, then you're all but guaranteed victory.

Pete does a lot of things on the surface level that appears to be head-scratching, but there is a method to his madness. I see his perspective.

But it makes no sense if you have the better QB, though. This is why the Seahawks inevitably play down to bad teams, but at the same time hang with the best teams, rarely ever getting blown out, but rarely ever blowing the opponent out. Playing weird ass games, seemingly incapable of playing a "normal game."

They should be looking to give their QB every advantage, with full control and tempo at the LoS, trying to score early, and put pressure on the bad teams with inferior QB play to keep up, then have it snowball from there. Looking to run the clock out in the 2nd half with a three score lead. If the defense wasn't a dumpster fire in the 1st half of the season that is what you would've saw this last season. So Pete was starting to change.

Then Russ started pressing, feeling like he had to score every possession, to overcome the worst defense in NFL history up to that point. The turnovers happened, and Pete shut the whole thing down going back to the old way of doing things, what he knows, a formula he has had success with. But he won't win a playoff game ever again with that style, unless he has the LOB part 2. Which isn't likely. You can't play offense for 1.5 quarters against playoff teams that are playing offense for 4 quarters. You've seen the results over the last 5 seasons. One and done.

 

[seabowl]

I have heard a ton of negitive about waiting for the last second to snap the ball, so I get that side. But what is the reasons to wait? I could understand reading the D, but most if the time, Russ is getting under center with 2 seconds to go.

The negatives far outweigh the positives, outside of special circumstances, IMO.

But here is why Pete likes it.

It shortens the game. Why would he want to do this?

Less plays = less chance of injury, keep players fresher over the course of a long season. Every play is a car crash.

Less plays = harder to get blown out, you're pretty much guaranteed to be in the game in the 4th qtr.

Less plays = showing less plays on film, rope-a-dope, save them for a future opponent when you really need it. Even just try to win with your base stuff starting out. Show as little as you need to win the football game.

Less plays = with a strong running game, makes it to where you can play keep away from the opponent, making it hard for them to score a lot of points. This tied in with his no turnovers philosophy makes them really hard to beat. Especially if you can get a couple of turnovers from the opponent, then you're all but guaranteed victory.

Pete does a lot of things on the surface level that appears to be head-scratching, but there is a method to his madness. I see his perspective.

But it makes no sense if you have the better QB, though. This is why the Seahawks inevitably play down to bad teams, but at the same time hang with the best teams, rarely ever getting blown out, but rarely ever blowing the opponent out. Playing weird ass games, seemingly incapable of playing a "normal game."

They should be looking to give their QB every advantage, with full control and tempo at the LoS, trying to score early, and put pressure on the bad teams with inferior QB play to keep up, then have it snowball from there. Looking to run the clock out in the 2nd half with a three score lead. If the defense wasn't a dumpster fire in the 1st half of the season that is what you would've saw this last season. So Pete was starting to change.

Then Russ started pressing, feeling like he had to score every possession, to overcome the worst defense in NFL history up to that point. The turnovers happened, and Pete shut the whole thing down going back to the old way of doing things, what he knows, a formula he has had success with. But he won't win a playoff game ever again with that style, unless he has the LOB part 2. Which isn't likely. You can't play offense for 1.5 quarters against playoff teams that are playing offense for 4 quarters. You've seen the results over the last 5 seasons. One and done.

Sorry but not buying why they snap so late. Instead of it being a controlled sequence they are usually having to rush to get the snap off in time. Plays come in too late and it leaves the O with little time. IMO it is plain mismanagement and falls on the coach.

 

[getnasty]

I have zero problem snapping the ball with less then 5 seconds left but you can't consistently snap it with 1 second left.

Biggest benefit is keeping the opponents defense on the field while yours on the sideline resting. All that goes out the window if your not efficient on 3rd down like we were last year.

If you win TOP and the TO battle in a game you'll probably win the game.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Would prefer they snap it between 15 and 10 from time to time. But, you're right, 5 seconds, cool. But consistently at 1 second or borderline no time on the clock? That has been old for years. Just stop.

 

[jamescasey1124]

I'm a fan of quick snap. Dont let the defense diagnose the play calls.

 

[Own The West]

It often looks like the huddle breaks late, the reads and adjustments come late, and it's a race to get the ball snapped. I don't like it because the defense gets to relax and only tense up for the last 5 seconds on the play clock. In some cases, they can fire on the play clock instead of movement, which is a major negative.

I'll tell you when we do rush to the line: when Russ' is going to hard count and try to draw them offsides. He's horrible at it and I can't remember a single time he's ever been successful. You can probably blame that on this last-seconditis as well.

 

[HawkRiderFan]

If the reasoning to do it is shorten the game / keep the D off the field, my counter is varying the snap count, keeping the D guessing can lead to more first downs which is a much better way to keep your D off the field.

 

[John63]

Would prefer they snap it between 15 and 10 from time to time. But, you're right, 5 seconds, cool. But consistently at 1 second or borderline no time on the clock? That has been old for years. Just stop.

Actually 5 seconds not cool, gives little time for Qb or line to cll out lien schemes, possible blitzes, make changes etc etc. You want the team getting to the line with 15 seconds left so there is time for all that.

 

[John63]

It often looks like the huddle breaks late, the reads and adjustments come late, and it's a race to get the ball snapped. I don't like it because the defense gets to relax and only tense up for the last 5 seconds on the play clock. In some cases, they can fire on the play clock instead of movement, which is a major negative.

I'll tell you when we do rush to the line: when Russ' is going to hard count and try to draw them offsides. He's horrible at it and I can't remember a single time he's ever been successful. You can probably blame that on this last-seconditis as well.

Hmm we beat Gb in th eplayoffs beasue of it.

 

[getnasty]

Would prefer they snap it between 15 and 10 from time to time. But, you're right, 5 seconds, cool. But consistently at 1 second or borderline no time on the clock? That has been old for years. Just stop.

Actually 5 seconds not cool, gives little time for Qb or line to cll out lien schemes, possible blitzes, make changes etc etc. You want the team getting to the line with 15 seconds left so there is time for all that.

We're talk snapping the ball not getting to the line.

 

[Appyhawk]

I prefer an up tempo offense that gives me more offensive opportunities over the course of the game. Gotta believe in your offense. If you don't believe in them changes need to be made.

 

[AgentDib]

We don't snap it as late as people believe. You just remember the few times each game where there's some confusion and a late snap. When I've charted this in the past for specific games the bulk of the snaps happened with more than 5 seconds on the play clock.

It has nothing to do with Pete wanting to keep his defense off the field, and that's frankly a silly thing to even suggest. A few seconds here and there is a tiny amount that doesn't matter. Keeping the defense off the field is important, but it's done by being efficient on offense and picking up first downs.

The reason why NFL teams do not snap it immediately is they are attempting to gain further information about what the defense is going to do. E.g. If you motion a receiver across the field and nobody follows him then the defense is likely zone rather than man. Offenses also spend time pre-snap making protection calls, and the QB spends time considering an audible to another play if he is getting a look from the defense that warrants it. Once they are ready to snap, varying the cadence and trying some hard counts also allows the QB to slow down the opposing pass rush.

When the Hawks are late to the line it is usually because there was something weird preceding it. A long completion in bounds where they had to hustle down the field, the OC having trouble deciding on the play call, and sometimes even the QB having a hard time relaying the play call. When we brought Marshawn back at the end of 2019 there were a few plays where Russ had to tell him specifically what to do.

I'm a fan of quick snap. Dont let the defense diagnose the play calls.

The trick here is that the offense will have many different plays out of the same formations and motions, whereas the defense has to adjust to what the offense is showing and tip their hands. This is a simplified example, but look at all of the options Oklahoma has with the counter trey here.

 

[AgentDib]

For reference, here is the first half of our week 7 loss to Arizona.

Seconds left to snap
Drive 1: 4, 9, 9, 7, 24, 9 (TD)
Drive 2: 6, 9, 2, 13, 4, 2, 5, 16, 3, 7 (FG)
Drive 3: 6, 1, 11, 6, 22, 4, 6, 9 (FG)
Drive 4: 3, 9, 3, 5, 9 (INT)
Drive 5: 16, 15, 7, 22, 4, ?? (TD)
Drive 6: 5, 4, 11, 2 (TD)

We had the occasional issue but no worse than the typical NFL offense.

As a side note, our offense was looking great in this week 7 game until Carson left with the injury. He was clearly missed and we only managed 7 points in the second half.

 

[ivotuk]

I have heard a ton of negitive about waiting for the last second to snap the ball, so I get that side. But what is the reasons to wait? I could understand reading the D, but most if the time, Russ is getting under center with 2 seconds to go.

The negatives far outweigh the positives, outside of special circumstances, IMO.

But here is why Pete likes it.

It shortens the game. Why would he want to do this?

Less plays = less chance of injury, keep players fresher over the course of a long season. Every play is a car crash.

Less plays = harder to get blown out, you're pretty much guaranteed to be in the game in the 4th qtr.

Less plays = showing less plays on film, rope-a-dope, save them for a future opponent when you really need it. Even just try to win with your base stuff starting out. Show as little as you need to win the football game.

Less plays = with a strong running game, makes it to where you can play keep away from the opponent, making it hard for them to score a lot of points. This tied in with his no turnovers philosophy makes them really hard to beat. Especially if you can get a couple of turnovers from the opponent, then you're all but guaranteed victory.

Pete does a lot of things on the surface level that appears to be head-scratching, but there is a method to his madness. I see his perspective.

But it makes no sense if you have the better QB, though. This is why the Seahawks inevitably play down to bad teams, but at the same time hang with the best teams, rarely ever getting blown out, but rarely ever blowing the opponent out. Playing weird ass games, seemingly incapable of playing a "normal game."

They should be looking to give their QB every advantage, with full control and tempo at the LoS, trying to score early, and put pressure on the bad teams with inferior QB play to keep up, then have it snowball from there. Looking to run the clock out in the 2nd half with a three score lead. If the defense wasn't a dumpster fire in the 1st half of the season that is what you would've saw this last season. So Pete was starting to change.

Then Russ started pressing, feeling like he had to score every possession, to overcome the worst defense in NFL history up to that point. The turnovers happened, and Pete shut the whole thing down going back to the old way of doing things, what he knows, a formula he has had success with. But he won't win a playoff game ever again with that style, unless he has the LOB part 2. Which isn't likely. You can't play offense for 1.5 quarters against playoff teams that are playing offense for 4 quarters. You've seen the results over the last 5 seasons. One and done.

Excellent Post! Thank you! :2thumbs:

 

[TheLegendOfBoom]

For every “positive” in controlling the clock for the “offense” preserving plays, limiting plays on film, decreasing chances of injury, etc etc., there are equal positives for the opposing defense as well.

The opposing defense will be further rested, additional time to think about what the offense will do, time to adjust to offense, etc. in all fairness, it evens out.

There are no more or no less advantages or disadvantages. If anything it hurts momentum and that is what frustrates fans.

Like, things are moving well, and then all of a sudden you want to slow down and then the opposing defense catches up.

It also makes it more difficult to “kick-start” an offense if the offense is having slow starts.

How many games have you seen Seattle start and they are three and outs for most of the first quarter? I’ve seen my share of slow start games with absolutely no energy and momentum.

Sometimes I want to see games go with the flow. If Seattle can at least match an opponents momentum and speed of the game, the game wouldn’t be as frustrating for fans as most have been, particularly with these same duck stalled three and out offenses that we are used to seeing.

It’s just lame and boring football.

 

[Fade]

For reference, here is the first half of our week 7 loss to Arizona.

Seconds left to snap
Drive 1: 4, 9, 9, 7, 24, 9 (TD)
Drive 2: 6, 9, 2, 13, 4, 2, 5, 16, 3, 7 (FG)
Drive 3: 6, 1, 11, 6, 22, 4, 6, 9 (FG)
Drive 4: 3, 9, 3, 5, 9 (INT)
Drive 5: 16, 15, 7, 22, 4, ?? (TD)
Drive 6: 5, 4, 11, 2 (TD)

We had the occasional issue but no worse than the typical NFL offense.

As a side note, our offense was looking great in this week 7 game until Carson left with the injury. He was clearly missed and we only managed 7 points in the second half.

Now do @ WAS when they were in the midst of their neutered, play it safe offense.

 

[ivotuk]

As much as it is a strategy, there are still too many, down to the wire, or delay of game/call time out instances.

For those, I blame Pete interfering. I"m sure the reason Schotty moved up to the booth was to get away from Pete. It didn't work.

 

[TheLegendOfBoom]

As much as it is a strategy, there are still too many, down to the wire, or delay of game/call time out instances.

For those, I blame Pete interfering. I"m sure the reason Schotty moved up to the booth was to get away from Pete. It didn't work.

Lol, I never thought of that. It’s funny cause it makes total sense.

I remember when I believe it was Ray Rhodes that went up to the booth to oversee the game. Probably because he needed to get away from Holmgren. Lol.

It makes sense.

 

[AgentDib]

Now do @ WAS when they were in the midst of their neutered, play it safe offense.

Info below. Overall the offense was solid besides the one tipped INT which made the game look a lot closer than it was. The main source of concern was the difficulty we had running the ball after WFT adjusted in the fourth quarter. The play clock was not particularly an issue in this game.

Play clock at snap @ WAS
Drive 1: 13, 14, 14, 9, 12, 20, 4*, FG (Hawks 3-0)
They went up tempo when they got into the red zone.
* The snap @ 4 seconds was a 3rd and long due to a holding penalty.

Drive 2: 12, 12, 13, 12, 10, 4*, Punt (Hawks 3-0)
* The snap @ 4 seconds involved ~10 seconds of Wilson looking at the defense while Hyde motioned from flanker to the backfield.

Drive 3: 14, 14, 14, 12, 6, 10, 6, 10, 4, 7, 11, FG (Hawks 10-0)
Wilson drew defensive off sides twice on this drive with the hard count.

Drive 4: 7, 14, 7, 9, 1*, 12, 6, 3**, 3, 3, 2, TD (Hawks 13-0)
* They got up to the line at a decent time for the snap @ 1 second on a 3rd and 3. Carson motioned into the backfield and then there were a flurry of protection calls coming from both Pocic and Simmons. They converted the play with a quick out to David Moore.
** Wilson had just scrambled for like 50 yards. They didn't get to the line until there were only 8 seconds left.

Drive 5: 5, 11, 7*, 7, TD (Hawks 20-3)
* Wilson tried a hard count at 17 seconds and then walked up to the line of scrimmage and changed the play based on what he saw from the defense.

Drive 6: 6, 3*, 8, Punt (Hawks 20-3)
* The team was at the line of scrimmage with plenty of time but Wilson changed the play to a run up the middle based on what he saw from the defense. The run went for 6 yards.
First three and out, this was the one where Hyde didn't get upfield very quickly after catching a check down pass and was stopped short of the first down.

Drive 7: 2, 12*, 2, 3, Punt (Hawks 20-3)
* Wilson's hard count led to a Dissly false start.
Another messy drive with a stuffed run, false start, and incomplete pass leading to a difficult third and long. Note that the late snaps occurred when the game clock was stopped (change of possession, incompletion). Washington started loading the box and we had trouble adjusting.

Drive 8: 5, 18, 8, 3, 4, Interception (Hawks 20-10)
Washington tries five defensive linemen and we make them pay with three first down throws to Metcalf. Wilson was thinking about a 1st and 10 deep shot on the interception but pulled it down and scrambled. He then had his pass tipped up by the oncoming rusher and another WFT player came down with it.

Drive 9: 12, 8, 1*, Punt (Hawks 20-15)
* Wilson tries the hard count a couple of times on 3rd and 7 but WFT doesn't jump.
This drive was made difficult by a four yard rushing loss on 1st down.

The completely ridiculous penalty occurs at this point on defense where Haskins lowers his head into KJ and initiates contact but KJ gets called for the penalty. Hawks stop the drive anyway and win 20-15.