Switching to 3-4 Was a Mistake

Maelstrom787

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Understood. So wouldn't bringing someone in from a 3-4 system to run the defense seem like the reasonable next step?
Ideally, you want someone comfortable in the system to run it, especially if you are pivoting to run your defense in that new system.
Desai should qualify. Hurtt too, really. Both Fangio tree dudes.

Actually, Pete as well, considering his SF defense from when he was DC there.

I guess they're running more 4-2 stuff according to Griff on Twitter, which.. I'm not sure why, I guess?

Seems like guys are freelancing a bit too much too, judging by Carroll's comments. Maybe it's just Hurtt's imposing image, but that's surprising to me that his guys would be freestyles and not staying disciplined. Could explain why the run fits have been atrocious and none of the edge guys are actually setting that edge.

 

TwistedHusky

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You make a good point.
Not sure how much is Desai, how much is Hurtt.

This is a pretty atrocious defense. We expected growing pains going into a new system.
But usually, that is due to mistakes or misses. These should be individual failures, not literally looking like the entire system is failing almost all the time.
Runners shouldn't get 11 on you regularly. Passers and receivers look to have it even easier. They look like they are playing pitch and catch out there.

Finally, it feels like we get very little pressure on the opposing QB. That cannot be good for a young still raw secondary.
Are we doing anything well right now?
 
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Quandre Diggs
Tariq Woolen
Jordyn Brooks
Poona Ford
Al Woods
Uchenna Nwosu

Doesn't translate to one of the worst defenses in the league. They have enough talent to be respectable, instead they are a joke.

None of those player moves the needle at all. Let's be objective here. They are all solid players and are pieces but none of them tilts the field.

Diggs: He's a quality player but he's not the best tackler and is limited speed-wise. He's someone you add to the secondary -- not build around.

Jordyn Brooks: He's not as good as people think. Dude has struggled in coverage and in run fits. Why did people get it twisted that he was a budding star? I thought he was only beginning to prove he can start.

Poona/Woods: These guys are solid pieces you need on the DLine. You shouldn't have to depend on them to blow up plays. In other words, teams don't need to game plan for these guys.

You need upgrades and better coaching. It's not a matter of switching back to the 4-3. We still have the same problems. LBs that don't play downhill. That has changed? There is no pass-rush. That has changed? We still can't find a good run-fit front? That has changed? The CBs are a little stickier in coverage. At least that has changed a little.

Everything needs to be better. Everything! So I think the conversation needs to be expanded. It's not enough to say the 3-4 is the problem and it makes everyone suck. Why though?

Is Poona required to 2 gap despite that he's undersized? Is DT being asked to consistently rush outside when that's not suited for him right now? We still need to figure out if he can actually contain the run. Why is the pulling guard, center, tackle able to reach the LBs so quickly at the 2nd level? All of these questions are better conversation starters than saying the 3-4 sucks and we need to change it...
 

IndyHawk

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The players..A lot just do not fit this 3-4 scheme..
They should have gotten more that do and will have to.
I'm surprised they are not poaching players off 3-4 teams
that fit better than some we have.
 

hawks85

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I don't think it was a mistake, but I do think Petey boy needs to let Clint Hurtt take full control of the Defense. Petey boy has always been the issue and is way too conservative. Petey boy needs to let his coordinators do their job.
 

cymatica

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Just run a 5-1-5 or 5-0-6 as a base and let them freelance. At least it would be something different to watch. Tired of the same vanilla looks that get gashed anyway
 

Maelstrom787

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I don't think it was a mistake, but I do think Petey boy needs to let Clint Hurtt take full control of the Defense. Petey boy has always been the issue and is way too conservative. Petey boy needs to let his coordinators do their job.
He literally let them change the entire terminology of the defense
 

jlwaters1

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Our linebackers seem lost and unsure of their role. In a 4-3 the defense is designed to direct plays to the middle linebacker. Both #56 and #57 are still playing as if they are in a 4-3. They are waiting, not picking up coverage on tight ends or giving up too much ground in pass protection. #52 is unsure of his role and seems to be easily over-powered by blocking. Poona also seems out of place in the 3-4.

But, this seems like more of a coaching problem to me. I just watched the SF game highlights on YouTube at 1/4 speed and it seems like there may be some issues with the 3-4 suiting our personnel. But as other posters have pointed out, a lot of the veterans have experience playing in a 3-4.

Of course, it is only two games in, but there are clearly some scheme problems with regard to linebacker play. Come on coaches...
It’s not a coaching issue, it’s a player execution issue. Coaches don’t teach players to NOT set the edge, to play undisciplined, take poor angles, etc. the defense isn’t executing the coaching and scheme are irrelevant if you aren’t wrapping up and tackling properly.
 

hawks85

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He literally let them change the entire terminology of the defense
Changing the terminology and changing the actual play on the field are 2 completely different things. It's the exact same defense with different verbiage. They are playing 3-4 but a very very conversative version of it. Nothing has really changed.
 

Maelstrom787

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Changing the terminology and changing the actual play on the field are 2 completely different things. It's the exact same defense with different verbiage. They are playing 3-4 but a very very conversative version of it. Nothing has really changed.
They've been running more 4 man fronts than 3 man fronts. One could make a solid argument that they're not running more 3-4 stuff than they have, as the previous two years saw them running a bear front as their base

Stuff has changed, the result has just been poor so far. It stands to reason that Pete wouldn't have hired guys like Desai and changed the verbiage he's used his whole time here if he wasn't ceding a solid amount of control.

My theory is that he's looking for a successor. Not so much my theory, really.. just the one I see as likely.
 

LeaveLynchAlone

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I don't think it was a mistake, but I do think Petey boy needs to let Clint Hurtt take full control of the Defense. Petey boy has always been the issue and is way too conservative. Petey boy needs to let his coordinators do their job.
Cutesy names don't really help your argument. Your opinions lose validity when they are tainted with immaturity. It is quite difficult to take any point you could possibly have seriously and I understand the anonymity is empowering for you but it is not showing your best side.

Perhaps if you changed your approach more people could actually read something of value in your posts. I believe in you!
 
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Fade

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UPDATE: Pete's trashcanning it.



They'll use Ryan Neal as a big nickel.
 

Chawker

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A four man front would draw resources from there OL aiding in the abilities to free up LBers to flow to the ball. And with one less LB it allows them to flow quickly and unicumbered to make tackles.

Another word it keeps a defense to wit, it can flow in harmonious perfection.

Cheers
 

TwistedHusky

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The 3-4 is arguably better at getting pressure on QBs and defending the pass.
But you have to commit to it AND be able to use it. Which means sending people from different locations, mixing up your blitzes and blitz packages, etc.
You don't get a 'set it and forget it' defense like we love so much. You have to be willing to adjust your approach to the opponent's circumstance and we hate doing that.

We also don't have the people for it.
It was the right idea but with the wrong plan and the wrong people.
 

hoxrox

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The 3-4 is arguably better at getting pressure on QBs and defending the pass.
But you have to commit to it AND be able to use it. Which means sending people from different locations, mixing up your blitzes and blitz packages, etc.
You don't get a 'set it and forget it' defense like we love so much. You have to be willing to adjust your approach to the opponent's circumstance and we hate doing that.

We also don't have the people for it.
It was the right idea but with the wrong plan and the wrong people.
Think the Jamal injury kind of threw a wrench in their plans. Josh Jones is not that good.

Glad to hear Neal will be involved more.
 

DarkVictory23

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I'm interested to see what the difference is next week. As some have said, I don't know that the 'Hawks have even run a traditional 3-4 very much, which definitely speaks to an identity crisis on defense. (Which will make sticking to assignments more difficult for less experienced players, which is our major issue).

Also, the 3-4 was supposed to help us spotlight Adams and he's gone.

Overall, I'm less concerned with dropping or keeping the 3-4 and more concerned with settling on a defensive identity at all.
 

cymatica

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The 3-4 is arguably better at getting pressure on QBs and defending the pass.
But you have to commit to it AND be able to use it. Which means sending people from different locations, mixing up your blitzes and blitz packages, etc.
You don't get a 'set it and forget it' defense like we love so much. You have to be willing to adjust your approach to the opponent's circumstance and we hate doing that.

We also don't have the people for it.
It was the right idea but with the wrong plan and the wrong people.
Set it and forget it perfectly describes the bland defensive approach.
 

Maelstrom787

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A four man front would draw resources from there OL aiding in the abilities to free up LBers to flow to the ball. And with one less LB it allows them to flow quickly and unicumbered to make tackles.

Another word it keeps a defense to wit, it can flow in harmonious perfection.

Cheers
They're playing a lot of 4 man fronts right now though
 

FrodosFinger

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We’re not very deep as is on the D line with Harris out it makes it that much tougher, which is why one more draft and an offseason of filthy elite acquisitions is what will set this squad up for another 6-7 year run of success. We suck now because we keep changing coordinators which I agreed with defensively but we need another year to acquire the players that will compliment the system
 
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