Russ Earned My Respect Back

[Ozzy]

When I say 'playing from behind,' what I mean is trailing and in obvious passing situations, where you can't lean on your running game. Thus far, Russ hasn't had to do that. In Russell's 3 games, the most the Steelers have trailed is 10 points (for a whopping 4 minutes).

As for throwing the ball over the middle, he had four attempts, his longest completion was 5 yards. The game manager distinction is hard for people to conceptualize because Russ is not a small armed overachiever and many people can't look past TDs/INT. But the other numbers don't lie. He's a mostly horizontal QB with below average down-to-down efficiency and upside down the field. He needs a strong running game to offset his weaknesses; otherwise, the offense becomes to volatile to win games consistently.

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Why is his throwing over the middle always used in the sense that because of that he’s bad. He also is light years better than everyone who’s ever played with the deep ball. This argument gets used a lot and I don’t get it. He has strengths and weaknesses just like most guys do. Easy can’t run, manning couldn’t stretch the field late in his career, Lamar is limited as a passer etc. this argument makes no sense to me. He finds other areas of the field to excel in, he in his prime was an elite runner etc and he found ways to win and carry an offense for years at a time. He was great.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

He does seem to be getting back to just doing what he's good at. Good for him. He clearly has a little something left in the tank.
Sucks it's the Steelers, but oh well. Now that we don't get any draft picks from the trade, meh. Let him do his thing, he's winning, he's clearly having fun. Has zero impact on the Hawks. We got a truckload for him, worked out fine.

 

[Ozzy]

And who knows maybe he falls flat on his face the rest of the way? We will have to see it play out I guess.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

He'll have some good games, some bad games, as will his team. I suspect they get smoked by Baltimore. Then again, most teams do.

 

[pittpnthrs]

When I say 'playing from behind,' what I mean is trailing and in obvious passing situations, where you can't lean on your running game. Thus far, Russ hasn't had to do that. In Russell's 3 games, the most the Steelers have trailed is 10 points (for a whopping 4 minutes).

As for throwing the ball over the middle, he had four attempts, his longest completion was 5 yards. The game manager distinction is hard for people to conceptualize because Russ is not a small armed overachiever and many people can't look past TDs/INT. But the other numbers don't lie. He's a mostly horizontal QB with below average down-to-down efficiency and upside down the field. He needs a strong running game to offset his weaknesses; otherwise, the offense becomes to volatile to win games consistently.

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I can't argue the chart, but it sure seemed he had more than that (I was at the bar though lol). As for playing from behind, they were down 6 with 2:50 left on the clock. They needed a TD. He gave them that TD. He just did it quick.

He's thrown for 264, 278, and 197 (not a lot of yards, but 3 TD's) in his three games so far. Doesn't seem like game manager numbers to me.

 

[knownone]

Why is his throwing over the middle always used in the sense that because of that he’s bad. He also is light years better than everyone who’s ever played with the deep ball. This argument gets used a lot and I don’t get it. He has strengths and weaknesses just like most guys do. Easy can’t run, manning couldn’t stretch the field late in his career, Lamar is limited as a passer etc. this argument makes no sense to me. He finds other areas of the field to excel in, he in his prime was an elite runner etc and he found ways to win and carry an offense for years at a time. He was great.

Read the thread. I did not bring up throwing the ball over the middle. Pitt did. Similarly, I made no comment on whether doing so was good or bad.

The bolded section is a good example of why you probably don't get the argument. Russ is an elite down-field thrower, but he's not light years ahead of anyone in that department. You know who else is an elite downfield thrower? Joe Flacco. And unlike Manning or Jackson, Russ is not carrying the offense. I mean, seriously, Manning was averaging 40 attempts per game toward the end of his career and Lamar brings so many more things to the table than current Russ.

I feel like I have to tell you this every time this topic is broached, but we're talking about Russ right now. We're not talking about Russ five years ago. He was great. He's not that guy anymore.

 

[pittpnthrs]

Yeah I brought up throwing in the middle. Like I said, I thought he was doing more of it, but again, I was drunk.

No Russ isn't what he used to be, but who is? He is playing pretty darned good right now though. I thought Pittsburgh made a mistake starting him over Fields, but it looks like it was the right decision so far.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Well said ^^

 

[knownone]

Yeah I brought up throwing in the middle. Like I said, I thought he was doing more of it, but again, I was drunk.

No Russ isn't what he used to be, but who is? He is playing pretty darned good right now though. I thought Pittsburgh made a mistake starting him over Fields, but it looks like it was the right decision so far.

To be fair, I wasn't replying to you and didn't see your reply until after I posted that comment.

Similarly, Ozzy keeps shifting arguments toward Russ in his prime. And I was clearly responding to him, so consider my comment within that context.

 

[Ozzy]

To be fair, I wasn't replying to you and didn't see your reply until after I posted that comment.

Similarly, Ozzy keeps shifting arguments toward Russ in his prime. And I was clearly responding to him, so consider my comment within that context.

Russ is playing light year better than you want to admit right now is my opinion let alone his prime. I didn’t shift, I misread the posts.

 

[hox]

As long as he has a good running game, and his defense is giving him more possessions to work with, he can manage a game fine, with an occasional splash play or two. Pittsburg is currently #2 in rushing attempts and #8 in rush yards. Their defense is #2 in PPG.

If their offense is rushing for under 100 yards a game (which they aren't) and Russ is asked to throw it 30+ times a game, it won't be good. Like in that 2020 playoff game, when he was trying to play hero ball, instead of the type of game he is playing now.

Tomlin appears to be the type of coach that he needed.

 

[knownone]

Russ is playing light year better than you want to admit right now is my opinion let alone his prime. I didn’t shift, I misread the posts.

Okay. Maybe he's not playing as well as you want to admit? Bottom five in SR, bottom 20 on PFF, I'd argue the evidence is on my side. But I digress.

Whether by misreading or not, you took an argument about Russ on the Steelers and argued against it by shifting toward his past success. Not a big deal. Except, this is something you've done repeatedly in previous conversations on this topic. The issue being that I've said never said anything negative about Prime Wilson's ability. Nothing. Yet, you keep framing arguments around that notion, despite my telling you numerous times that I think Prime Russ was elite. It's preposterous.

He finds other areas of the field to excel in, he in his prime was an elite runner etc and he found ways to win and carry an offense for years at a time. He was great.

 

[Ozzy]

Okay. Maybe he's not playing as well as you want to admit? Bottom five in SR, bottom 20 on PFF, I'd argue the evidence is on my side. But I digress.

Whether by misreading or not, you took an argument about Russ on the Steelers and argued against it by shifting toward his past success. Not a big deal. Except, this is something you've done repeatedly in previous conversations on this topic. The issue being that I've said never said anything negative about Prime Wilson's ability. Nothing. Yet, you keep framing arguments around that notion, despite my telling you numerous times that I think Prime Russ was elite. It's preposterous.

You realize you’re not the only person who participates in the Russ debate right? Many, many things are said and it’s weird you think you’re the only person involved or that your opinion is the only one validated. I literally just told you I misread who wrote what, how much more can I spell it out to you? Multiple people in this very thread have said Russ has ALWAYS lived and died by the 50/50 deep ball and that he wasn’t elite because of it. I’m responding to that sentiment that keeps being said. I figured it was obvious it’s not only you making an argument but many people in here.

 

[Ozzy]

As long as he has a good running game, and his defense is giving him more possessions to work with, he can manage a game fine, with an occasional splash play or two. Pittsburg is currently #2 in rushing attempts and #8 in rush yards. Their defense is #2 in PPG.

If their offense is rushing for under 100 yards a game (which they aren't) and Russ is asked to throw it 30+ times a game, it won't be good. Like in that 2020 playoff game, when he was trying to play hero ball, instead of the type of game he is playing now.

Tomlin appears to be the type of coach that he needed.

Except he had multiple years of doing exactly that, carrying an offense with a bad defense and running game and he put up great numbers.

 

[knownone]

You realize you’re not the only person who participates in the Russ debate right? Many, many things are said and it’s weird you think you’re the only person involved or that your opinion is the only one validated. I literally just told you I misread who wrote what, how much more can I spell it out to you? Multiple people in this very thread have said Russ has ALWAYS lived and died by the 50/50 deep ball and that he wasn’t elite because of it. I’m responding to that sentiment that keeps being said. I figured it was obvious it’s not only you making an argument but many people in here.

Use your words then, Bud. It's not particularly hard to make those distinction clear and remove any and all ambiguity. When you reply to me directly and you don't put any effort in differentiating my beliefs and from others in this thread, that is on YOU.

 

[hgwellz12]

Yeah I brought up throwing in the middle. Like I said, I thought he was doing more of it, but again, I was drunk.

No Russ isn't what he used to be, but who is? He is playing pretty darned good right now though. I thought Pittsburgh made a mistake starting him over Fields, but it looks like it was the right decision so far.

Yeah, Justin doesn't make this throw

x.com

x.com

 

[hox]

Except he had multiple years of doing exactly that, carrying an offense with a bad defense and running game and he put up great numbers.

I'm talking about now, but if you want to look back in the past, he's always had a top 6 run game except for 3 seasons:

Here are the splits.

Rushing Yards vs QB rating vs Total QB Yards (passing + rushing):

2013 - #4 / 7th / 10th

2014 - #1 / 9th / 4th

2015 - #3 / 1st / 4th

2016 - # 21 / 14th / 5th

2017 - #23 / 11th / 7th

2018 - #1 / 3rd / 15th

2019 - #6 / 5th / 4th

2020 - #12 / 7th / 6th

In those 3 seasons, only in 2020 was he top 10 in both QB rating and total QB yards, which includes passing and rush yards.

He feasted on regular season opponents that season. But when it came to the playoffs in 2020, he put up terrible stats. He could not carry the team without a strong running game.



So while there are some outliers, for the most part he had a strong run game support for most of his career in Seattle.

This is what he is experiencing now in Pittsburg.

 

[NoGain]

The Ravens vs. Steelers will be an interesting game this weekend. The Ravens have one of the worst pass defenses in the league, and the Steelers defense has a way of making things difficult for opposing teams, especially one of their chief rivals at home. Meanwhile, the Ravens have been about the most formidable team in the league on offense this year, with Lamar far out in front now for the MVP trophy.

 

[Ozzy]

I'm talking about now, but if you want to look back in the past, he's always had a top 6 run game except for 3 seasons:

Here are the splits.

Rushing Yards vs QB rating vs Total QB Yards (passing + rushing):

2013 - #4 / 7th / 10th

2014 - #1 / 9th / 4th

2015 - #3 / 1st / 4th

2016 - # 21 / 14th / 5th

2017 - #23 / 11th / 7th

2018 - #1 / 3rd / 15th

2019 - #6 / 5th / 4th

2020 - #12 / 7th / 6th

In those 3 seasons, only in 2020 was he top 10 in both QB rating and total QB yards, which includes passing and rush yards.

He feasted on regular season opponents that season. But when it came to the playoffs in 2020, he put up terrible stats. He could not carry the team without a strong running game.

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So while there are some outliers, for the most part he had a strong run game support for most of his career in Seattle.

This is what he is experiencing now in Pittsburg.

So because they didn’t have a good team the playoff failures were on him? And we use these same arguments to prove why Geno is elite even though he can’t even get to the playoffs? Seems like we’re twisting these stats to confirm priors. Russ was really good all those years and yeah it’s really hard to win in the playoffs when you don’t have a good run game or defense.

One thing people don’t give Russ credit for is he does a ton to help the running game. He struggles against two high so teams play a lot of it against him, this also opens it up for the running game. His explosive plays also contribute to this.

And yes the outliers. What did he do? The exact thing many in here say he can’t. He played very well during those years. So why not give him credit? He proved he can put up very good numbers without those things. Just seems convenient to say he can’t do something then when presented with numbers showing he can it’s talked away as an outlier

 

[Ozzy]

Use your words then, Bud. It's not particularly hard to make those distinction clear and remove any and all ambiguity. When you reply to me directly and you don't put any effort in differentiating my beliefs and from others in this thread, that is on YOU.

I just literally told you I misread who wrote what, what more words do you need? I’m on a cell phone 99% of the time checking in on a break at work Bud.