Our OC and DC, how good are they?

toffee

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We focused on Pete. I am more concern about our other coaching staffs:

Waldron:
We read that he didn't call plays in LA. Last year, his first as OC, Russ more or less played RussBall. Can he really gameplan and make that right call at critical situations? We don't know. Is he a QB whisperer? We don't know. Russ gave Shane a no confidence vote right after he was hired, does Russ know something that we all don't? After one season, Waldron hasn't proved anything yet.

He is now empowered to develop Drew Lock, only QB he coached was Goff? Let's see
Goff's PFF under Waldron
'20 71.4
'19 72.4
Before Waldron
'18 82.5
'17 73.7

Clint Hirtt/Sean Desai:
Clint is a first timer and promoted from within, some rightfully pointed out that no other teams, pro or college bid on his service. We knew that he's popular with the players, but so was Ken Norton Jr. May be we can credit him with developing Poona? Pete didn't seen to be comfortable with handing full responsibility to Clint, he hired a baby sitter in Sean Desay. Supposingly Sean was hired to help Clint with DBs but he was given a bigger title, associated head coach? So who reports to whom?

Baby sitter Sean (38yo) is younger than Clint (43 yo), not sure how ambition/ego work in this case, then there's Pete, we have a trike. Sounded like a management nightmare?

From Waldron, Clint, and Sean; Sean seems to be the an hot item and much sought-after, and he does bring years of working with Fangio with him. I have my finger crossed on our OC and DC.
 
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Smellyman

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Only time will tell, but Hurtt, Desai, Scott I think will be a great combo.

Getting Dickerson here could be a huge addition here replacing Solari.

The only game Waldron was able to be himself was first game of the year at Indy. That was fun and dynamic. Not sure who put a stop to that, Pete or Russ.
 
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jammerhawk

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This is a very hard question to answer. However, last year first game the O was played as per design and it looked awesome, after that it seemed as if RW wanted to do something else. I was encouraged by that first game, but now am unsure as the wheels seemed to get wobbly by the end of the season. Still the pieces to run it are there even w/o Wilson. I believe our young O C is seriously underrated by many here.

On D of course we have no clue as to how well they will play the 3-4, how the safeties will play, what the pass rush will look like, how well the admittedly potentially highly capable CBS will play. I have to say however they could be surprisingly good and a new defensive monster could be created. I like the depth at DT, am excited to await seeing the pass rush from our young pass rushers who I suspect will crash upon the consciousness of the OCs of opponents. Do think as well that our young CBs will take a bit to show their stuff yet the guys in front of them could hold things down well until they start to break through. More than that I a hoping to see the results from a young and aggressive defensive coaching staff. I am particularly excited by what Desai and Hurrt will scheme up.

All that said, as yet we don’t know. Do think our HC has put together a great staff. Am excited to watch and see what they can do.
 

JPatera76

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Our young OC made a struggling Goff preform pretty decently and kept the rams competitive. Now don't get me wrong Ill give the young buck coach McVay credit for sure. And what I saw at the start of the season against Indy.. I loved it. And then it instantly disappeared. Even the prior year with Schotty, 1st game against Atlanta Seattle moved the ball around really well.. but then it reverted slighty, the only difference was, teams didnt play 2 high against Russell a lot so the wheels looked okay when in reality the next year (2021) the 2 high looks came more frequently making the "2020 okay looking wheels".. really training wheels before they fell off.

As for our DC's I'm eager I think we have some hungry coaches are want to impress. And I LIKE what i see on paper for our defense. I am anxious to see how it all looks in game.
 

Scout

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Desai is going to be a great addition. His work with the Bears as a DC was a positive upward sign given how problematic the Bears offense was last season. Bears defense was underrated all last season.

Waldron knows how to run his system but it requires all players to buy in. If the players buy into his system the Seahawks offense will move the chains. How explosive the offense can be is another question entirely dependent upon the QB play, if the Ol gels and if the Seahawks playmakers can come through. But I have a high degree of confidence that Waldron will have the running game and short to intermediate passing attack humming on all cylinders.

As for Hurtt I have heard a lot of praise for him so far. But I think along with Desai though the combo will have the defensive front ready to go.
 
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keasley45

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This is a very hard question to answer. However, last year first game the O was played as per design and it looked awesome, after that it seemed as if RW wanted to do something else. I was encouraged by that first game, but now am unsure as the wheels seemed to get wobbly by the end of the season. Still the pieces to run it are there even w/o Wilson. I believe our young O C is seriously underrated by many here.

On D of course we have no clue as to how well they will play the 3-4, how the safeties will play, what the pass rush will look like, how well the admittedly potentially highly capable CBS will play. I have to say however they could be surprisingly good and a new defensive monster could be created. I like the depth at DT, am excited to await seeing the pass rush from our young pass rushers who I suspect will crash upon the consciousness of the OCs of opponents. Do think as well that our young CBs will take a bit to show their stuff yet the guys in front of them could hold things down well until they start to break through. More than that I a hoping to see the results from a young and aggressive defensive coaching staff. I am particularly excited by what Desai and Hurrt will scheme up.

All that said, as yet we don’t know. Do think our HC has put together a great staff. Am excited to watch and see what they can do.

Agree with all of that. But the offense finished the season very strong after we were eliminated from the playoffs and it seemed that Pete placed Waldron at the controls of the offense and the team git back to mixing up the run and pass a little but better. I was very encouraged by how they closed out the year.
 

jammerhawk

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To me it seemed that RW was not engaged with Waldron though and seemed to be interested in running his own show. The play mix was better when Smith was playing than when RW did, save for that first game last year.

At the end of the year it seemed as if finally the team had a running game which was more from a finally healthy Penny, running for some opportunity to stay with the team or to show he could play football at a high level.
 

SoulfishHawk

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We haven't even seen Hurtt as DC yet, I'm looking forward to seeing what he can do. Can't be much worse than Norton. Shoot, if he actually ADJUST to the opponent, it will be a step up.
 

sdog1981

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The NFL is always about the new and unknown OC/DC
 

scutterhawk

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I'm NOT GOING TO turn this into another Russell Wilson, or Pete Carroll Bashing, 'The Good Lawd Knows' where everybody's loyalties & opinions lie when it comes to the Praises, and or Blamings of WHO they see as the culprit or hero in this hullabaloo fooferah.
Waldron was NOT a good fit for Russ, as his system and Wilson's style of play/skillset were a complete mismatch, and I BELIEVE (OPINION) that Pete likely knew that BEFORE Waldron's hiring.
I think that after the canning of Darryl Bevell & the hiring & firing of Schottenheimer, Pete decided that it didn't matter who he brought in as OC, Wilson was still going to play 'Wilson Ball'.
I believe the Waldron hiring was for the NEXT Quarterback to come.
My gut tells me that it wasn't a spur of the moment decision and that Pete & Russ BOTH knew that '21' was going to be the end for one or maybe even BOTH of their times in Seattle.
So, with that said, I believe that Waldron is going to be a great fit for whoever the next new signal caller is.
I'm stoked with the advancements & Desai hiring + change-up in the Defensive Restructuring.
 

TwistedHusky

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Pete has always had an issue with his coordinators, going way back to USC.

Probably worse than most HCs, in terms of hit or miss.

This has been going on long enough that it might not be that Pete is making mistakes with people. It might be that Pete values attributes that have less to do with being exceptional coordinators and more with being a value to Pete or the org for other reasons.

You can see where that makes being optimistic about new hires difficult.

Gus Bradley was a solid DC. Dan Quinn was stellar. So maybe we are due again, but we have had a mixed bag on the DC/OC group. Still concerned about Waldron but we will see. it would almost be mathematically impossible for our new DC to be worse than our last DC, but is that going to be good enough?
 

ElvisInBlue

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I’m struggling to understand Desai’s role.

He’s an asst head coach for Defense on a team where the Head Coach has been the defacto Defensive Coordinator. Is Pete ceding control of the defense to Desai? Can Pete stay hands off enough to give it time to work?
 

BASF

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I’m struggling to understand Desai’s role.

He’s an asst head coach for Defense on a team where the Head Coach has been the defacto Defensive Coordinator. Is Pete ceding control of the defense to Desai? Can Pete stay hands off enough to give it time to work?
He will more than likely be our next head coach when Carroll retires, bringing him in this season allows Carroll to teach him the Seahawks culture. His being able to support Hurtt is just to help facilitate modernizing the defense.

Carroll sees himself as a teacher that helps coaches raise their game to advance their careers. My main problem with that is he always gives them longer to prove themselves that they have deserved. Him giving Norton Jr. two seasons too many should have cost Carroll his job.
 

TwistedHusky

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Nobody has explained Waldron yet either.
Why would you go from a top team in the division, with a HC that knows and nurtures offense, and a STACKED roster - to a team that is lesser in the division, with a HC that tends stymie offense AND be more controlling?
What was Waldron's motivation for leaving a better team and situation to come here to a worse one?
Was it just Wilson? Then what now?
Maybe it was our skill positions? (The Rams had a pretty iffy WR group before they got Odell)
The rationale for why Waldron left a loaded Rams team to come here is still missing.
No matter how you slice it - the Rams HC seems to have a better future and situation than the one here. The near term future would have clearly been much better with the Rams.

Why leave then and why come here?
 

Maelstrom787

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Nobody has explained Waldron yet either.
Why would you go from a top team in the division, with a HC that knows and nurtures offense, and a STACKED roster - to a team that is lesser in the division, with a HC that tends stymie offense AND be more controlling?
What was Waldron's motivation for leaving a better team and situation to come here to a worse one?
Was it just Wilson? Then what now?
Maybe it was our skill positions? (The Rams had a pretty iffy WR group before they got Odell)
The rationale for why Waldron left a loaded Rams team to come here is still missing.
No matter how you slice it - the Rams HC seems to have a better future and situation than the one here. The near term future would have clearly been much better with the Rams.

Why leave then and why come here?
How is this so perplexing?

He was not an offensive coordinator.

He received an offer to be an offensive coordinator.

He is now an offensive coordinator.
 

TwistedHusky

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He was the passing coordinator on a team known for great offense. He was going to get OC offers. (Especially because he did have playcalling duties at times on his team then.)

Why he took this one is the big question.

Taking an OC job with a HC that is dismissive of offense seems counterproductive. It wouldn't have been his only OC opportunity but it seemed like a bad direction to take if you are trying to build a track record of success.

Taking a promotion into a bad circumstance doesn't seem like a wise career move or evidence of great decision-making.

So again, was it Wilson, all our other weapons, or something else?
To understand if there is a reason to expect success, it seems reasonable to want to know why he made this choice - because it doesn't make tremendous sense.
 

Maelstrom787

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He was the passing coordinator on a team known for great offense. He was going to get OC offers. (Especially because he did have playcalling duties at times on his team then.)

Why he took this one is the big question.

Taking an OC job with a HC that is dismissive of offense seems counterproductive. It wouldn't have been his only OC opportunity but it seemed like a bad direction to take if you are trying to build a track record of success.

Taking a promotion into a bad circumstance doesn't seem like a wise career move or evidence of great decision-making.

So again, was it Wilson, all our other weapons, or something else?
To understand if there is a reason to expect success, it seems reasonable to want to know why he made this choice - because it doesn't make tremendous sense.
He's not dismissive of offense, though.

Waldron got the opportunity to come over and bring his right-hand man in Dickerson over, as well.

From there, he's clearly been free to run what he wants, within reason, culminating in the best back-half offensive rushing performance in the past decade league-wide from Rashaad Penny - AND his partner-in-crime Dickerson being promoted to work in lockstep with him. Clearly, Dickerson is getting what he wants on the line, as well - two air raid tackles? Austin Blythe? Full blocking scheme overhaul?

He clearly has significant input. He was literally asked what he wanted to do at pick 41, wasn't he? Pretty sure the documentary revealed that.
 

DanejaHawk

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He was the passing coordinator on a team known for great offense. He was going to get OC offers. (Especially because he did have playcalling duties at times on his team then.)

Why he took this one is the big question.

Taking an OC job with a HC that is dismissive of offense seems counterproductive. It wouldn't have been his only OC opportunity but it seemed like a bad direction to take if you are trying to build a track record of success.

Taking a promotion into a bad circumstance doesn't seem like a wise career move or evidence of great decision-making.

So again, was it Wilson, all our other weapons, or something else?
To understand if there is a reason to expect success, it seems reasonable to want to know why he made this choice - because it doesn't make tremendous sense.
Waldron did receive an OC offer. From the Seattle Seahawks. A team with a proven track record of success, a well recognized winning culture, and that is loaded to gills with explosive offensive talent. A couple of whom are perhaps generational.

Taking over the reigns of an offense with that type of set-up that had been scuffling a bit the season prior seems like the ideal direction to take if you're trying to build a track record of success and respect for your name. Turn a squad like that relevant and productive again quickly, watch the Head Coaching offers pile up at your feet within a few seasons, and profit. Also this whole narrative of Pete being dismissive of offense exists solely in a select few Seahwks fans' head canon.

I'm really struggling to understand how you're failing to connect the dots here. Perhaps your pen is out of ink?
 
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BASF

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Nobody has explained Waldron yet either.
Why would you go from a top team in the division, with a HC that knows and nurtures offense, and a STACKED roster - to a team that is lesser in the division, with a HC that tends stymie offense AND be more controlling?
What was Waldron's motivation for leaving a better team and situation to come here to a worse one?
Was it just Wilson? Then what now?
Maybe it was our skill positions? (The Rams had a pretty iffy WR group before they got Odell)
The rationale for why Waldron left a loaded Rams team to come here is still missing.
No matter how you slice it - the Rams HC seems to have a better future and situation than the one here. The near term future would have clearly been much better with the Rams.

Why leave then and why come here?
Perhaps like Tom Flores before him, he is being paid to sabotage the Seahawks by his former team. He has chased Wilson off...
 

DanejaHawk

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Perhaps like Tom Flores before him, he is being paid to sabotage the Seahawks by his former team. He has chased Wilson off...
Wilson chased himself off. The man wanted to be on a team that he could cuck into letting him throw the ball an absurdly irresponsible amount of times so he could make his little hero fantasy a perpetually self-fulfilling prophecy.
 
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