Hypothetical QB Scenario

[olyfan63]

A 2 time MVP can't read defenses. Lol. I'm sorry, but I think that is very much speculation.

I also have *some* concerns about Lamar's leadership, but not really that much anymore. I'd say it's more that Lamar uses his elite running and escapability to mask his lack of skill at reading defenses, just like Russell did for years. Yes, the biggest leadership problem for Lamar is that he has difficulty reading Steve Spagnuolo KC Chiefs defenses in playoff games.

Reading defenses is a skill that has a continuum, not a black/white thing. Russell could read SOME defenses OK, but struggled against 2-high shell types of defenses.
Russell read the Niner D on 4th and 7 in 2013 season NFCCG, or, more accurately, read the offsides and knew the automatic adjustment, that he'd get 4 verts from his receivers, who also adjusted, and Russell threw the TD pass that won the game.

Russell also read the Green Bay zero blitz in the 2014 NFCCG vs the Packers, read no safety, and threw the ball up for Kearse to go get.

The Cards figured out, in the fugly OT tie game, that 2-high shell defenses were Russell's Kryptonite, as far as pre-snap reads. Only a few teams in the league had the personnel (elite pass rushers) to play in a way that caused problems for Russell; against other teams, he'd just run around for 5 seconds and make a play from his sandlot ball scramble drill repertoire.

Russell had problems reading some defenses, and, based on the best information, so does Lamar.

 

[Atradees]

Maybe K9 can throw the ball. This is not off topic. Gena can be the back up

 

[seabowl]

So here’s the question, does anyone really think that if Mike McDonald and John Schneider had a chance to switch quarterbacks this season starting game two , Geno Smith for Lamar Jackson, you’re saying they wouldn’t do it?

Really?

 

[King Dog]

If they're looking for a late 40's stop gap, I'm available at the right price which is about twenty bucks

 

[BASF]

This isn't a video game. Knowledge of the playbook matters. Continuity with your teammates matters. Rapport with your receivers matters. The months of getting on the same page matter. You can't just swap a QB for QB during the season.

 

[Maelstrom787]

So here’s the question, does anyone really think that if Mike McDonald and John Schneider had a chance to switch quarterbacks this season starting game two , Geno Smith for Lamar Jackson, you’re saying they wouldn’t do it?

Really?

I think it's very possible, especially given the nature of Grubb's offenses and the types of quarterbacks he's had success with.

He likes guys who can succeed from the pocket. He elevated Haener to be an efficient yet high YPA passer and harnessed Penix's acumen as a passer to incredible effect.

Lamar is great, but does he get more out of the foremost strength of this roster (the WR room) than Geno Smith is capable of doing?

I'd honestly wager no, just due to play style. Geno's the better dropback passer.

 

[seabowl]

I think it's very possible, especially given the nature of Grubb's offenses and the types of quarterbacks he's had success with.

He likes guys who can succeed from the pocket. He elevated Haener to be an efficient yet high YPA passer and harnessed Penix's acumen as a passer to incredible effect.

Lamar is great, but does he get more out of the foremost strength of this roster (the WR room) than Geno Smith is capable of doing?

I'd honestly wager no, just due to play style. Geno's the better dropback passer.

2023 stats purely on passing

Jackson had 24-7 3700yds 103 passer rating
Smith had 20-9 3700 yds 92 passer rating

Mind you the Seahawks wr/te corps was way better than the Ravens.

Just for shits and giggles let’s throw in the rushing stats:

Jackson 821 yards 5.5ypc 5 TDS
Smith 155 yards 4.2ypc 1 TD

I don’t know a single GM in the league that wouldn’t make this deal.

 

[Ad Hawk]

I don’t know a single GM in the league that wouldn’t make this deal.

I'd wager you don't know a single GM in the league, so you're probably right.

 

[Maelstrom787]

2023 stats purely on passing

Jackson had 24-7 3700yds 103 passer rating
Smith had 20-9 3700 yds 92 passer rating

Mind you the Seahawks wr/te corps was way better than the Ravens.

Just for shits and giggles let’s throw in the rushing stats:

Jackson 821 yards 5.5ypc 5 TDS
Smith 155 yards 4.2ypc 1 TD

I don’t know a single GM in the league that wouldn’t make this deal.

The Seahawks didn't have the best defense in the league coupled with a fantastic rushing game and OL, though.

Throwing on the tape and watching these two QBs while judging their fundamentals, their arms, their processing, and their pocket presence removes any doubt. Geno is clearly better in that regard, while Lamar is obviously the better athlete and playmaker.

I think most would pick Lamar for their teams, but I think Lamar's an iffy fit here with such a questionable OL and a bunch of WRs he doesn't have the skillset to take advantage of fully. For, say, the 2018 Seahawks though? Hell yeah, Lamar would kill.

 

[seabowl]

I'd wager you don't know a single GM in the league, so you're probably right.

View attachment 67268

Lamar Jackson is rated the #2 player in the league by the players

Geno Smith didn’t make the top 100

When Geno was a free agent last off-season the best deal he got was from the Seahawks, which was a middle of the road team friendly contract. If he was so highly coveted, why didn’t he get many more offers that far far exceeded what he ended up getting from the Seahawks? Mind you, this contract came after his best season ever in 2022.

I stand pat on saying EVERY GM in the league would make this deal!

 

[seabowl]

Geno over Jackson? Lol

 

[12AngryHawks]

I got another hypothetical scenario for you guys. Bryce Young for Geno straight up. Any takers?...Guys?...

 

[Maelstrom787]

Geno over Jackson? Lol

For this offensive supporting cast? Yeah, probably.

I think he's a better quarterback for this WR trio, and that WR trio is the foremost strength of our roster.

As a pure passer, he's better than Lamar. He's got superior accuracy, pocket presence, and timing.

Lamar is the more talented athlete overall by a good margin, but the point I'm trying to make is that fit is important to consider.

I'm not asking which player is more talented, I'm asking which one everyone thinks would be more successful on a team like ours with a porous OL and triple-threat receiving corps and whose offense is being run by Ryan Grubb, known for passing attacks in college that guys like Michael Penix fit a lot better than a Lamar archetype QB would have.

The questions are very different, and this hypothetical requires more nuanced considerations than it would if I had just been like "which ones better?"

And, to be clear, I am not saying those answering with Lamar are wrong by any means. I just think the nuance required to come to a conclusion here (yes, the hypothetical is imperfect, but the general idea is sound) is an interesting avenue for discussion on the finer points of quarterbacking.

 

[CallMeADawg]

Lamar Jackson is rated the #2 player in the league by the players

Geno Smith didn’t make the top 100

When Geno was a free agent last off-season the best deal he got was from the Seahawks, which was a middle of the road team friendly contract. If he was so highly coveted, why didn’t he get many more offers that far far exceeded what he ended up getting from the Seahawks? Mind you, this contract came after his best season ever in 2022.

I stand pat on saying EVERY GM in the league would make this deal!

You are more enamored by popularity contests than you should be.

 

[seabowl]

You are more enamored by popularity contests than you should be.

How in the world is this a popularity contest? Judgment by your peers is probably the best way of deciding what players are the best.

If I use stats, I’m wrong. If I use the selection process by the players, I’m wrong. If I use that he won two MVPs with one of them being last year, I’m wrong. All anyone else on the board is using is their opinion but when I actually use facts, it’s wrong. Maybe if some folks weren’t so stubborn, they would realize they are wrong.

 

[flv2]

How in the world is this a popularity contest? Judgment by your peers is probably the best way of deciding what players are the best.

If I use stats, I’m wrong. If I use the selection process by the players, I’m wrong. If I use that he won two MVPs with one of them being last year, I’m wrong. All anyone else on the board is using is their opinion but when I actually use facts, it’s wrong. Maybe if some folks weren’t so stubborn, they would realize they are wrong.

It's a direct consequence of being on an NFL team board rather than an NFL general board with 32 sets of fans. There's a lot of good conversation here but every team board has some circle-jerk topics.

 

[pittpnthrs]

For this offensive supporting cast? Yeah, probably.

I think he's a better quarterback for this WR trio, and that WR trio is the foremost strength of our roster.

As a pure passer, he's better than Lamar. He's got superior accuracy, pocket presence, and timing.

Lamar is the more talented athlete overall by a good margin, but the point I'm trying to make is that fit is important to consider.

I'm not asking which player is more talented, I'm asking which one everyone thinks would be more successful on a team like ours with a porous OL and triple-threat receiving corps and whose offense is being run by Ryan Grubb, known for passing attacks in college that guys like Michael Penix fit a lot better than a Lamar archetype QB would have.

The questions are very different, and this hypothetical requires more nuanced considerations than it would if I had just been like "which ones better?"

And, to be clear, I am not saying those answering with Lamar are wrong by any means. I just think the nuance required to come to a conclusion here (yes, the hypothetical is imperfect, but the general idea is sound) is an interesting avenue for discussion on the finer points of quarterbacking.

Good post Mael, but it got me thinking when you mentioned porous Oline that Lamar with his superior legs would be more dangerous than a pocket passer. It's just two different ways of looking at it. If we're just talking about throwing the ball to receivers, then yes I understand the Geno choice. It's the only area I can see that though. On an overall basis, I believe Lamar is the clear choice though.

Oh well, it's just a hypothetical question anyways.

 

[Spin Doctor]

It's a direct consequence of being on an NFL team board rather than an NFL general board with 32 sets of fans. There's a lot of good conversation here but every team board has some circle-jerk topics.

I love me some good NFL fanfiction.

 

[seabowl]

It's a direct consequence of being on an NFL team board rather than an NFL general board with 32 sets of fans. There's a lot of good conversation here but every team board has some circle-jerk topics.

Truer words have never been more honest than this on this board.

 

[FLSeahawk]

With this O-line it’s a no brainer. Lamar all day.

Debate passing accuracy all you want but if there’s no time to throw does it really matter?