How culpable is GM John Schneider?

[TheLegendOfBoom]

Michael-Shawn Dugar raises a lot of issues that we have discussed here. The thing that hit home for me is that Dugar says we now have over ten years of data that suggests things will not get better.

The comparison with the Rams is also very striking. The Seahawks got a lot of draft capital in the Russell Wilson trade whereas the Rams were completed depleted when they gave away all their draft picks to build their Super Bowl championship team. Plus they lost their star players to retirement and free agency in the years after the Super Bowl. And yet, in the last three years, the Rams have, even with their limited draft resources, built a better core of young players than we have.

McVay has always been Seattle’s kryptonite.

This guy has outsmarted Seattle for what half a decade now? That’s pretty impressive honestly. Can’t hate on the guy for outwitting and outcoaching JS and PC!

But I agree. These last 10 years of JS and PC disaster moves isn’t all one single person but that isn’t to say, both does deserve blame for the terrible decisions and management of Seattle’s roster and that is something Schneider cannot escape from. Schneider doesn’t get a free pass now that PC is gone, Schneider made moves and had his share of the direction this franchise has gone.

Schneider’s real hot seat begins NFL Draft 2025. If Schneider doesn’t turn this ship around, he’s toast by the end of 2025 and he knows it!

 

[NoGain]

Schneider is on a short leash with me now. Our OL has been dreadful for years, they never drafted QB's, and their FA signings have been below par. If he doesn't drastically address the OL this off-season, he's on the outs with me.

 

[AnimeAmore]

Michael-Shawn Dugar raises a lot of issues that we have discussed here. The thing that hit home for me is that Dugar says we now have over ten years of data that suggests things will not get better.

The comparison with the Rams is also very striking. The Seahawks got a lot of draft capital in the Russell Wilson trade whereas the Rams were completed depleted when they gave away all their draft picks to build their Super Bowl championship team. Plus they lost their star players to retirement and free agency in the years after the Super Bowl. And yet, in the last three years, the Rams have, even with their limited draft resources, built a better core of young players than we have.

"Over ten years of data."
And this is what recently made me decide I'm done with Schneider. He has been here long enough and been pretty much the same GM the whole time and the results are what they are.

John Schneider knows how to build an 8-10 win team, but that is his ceiling. He can go to any franchise that's been a disaster and turn them into an 8-10 win team by year 3 or 4. The problem is that the team will stay there as long as Schneider stays there. Teams that have been a disaster will view this as a needed improvement...until they get tired of 8-10 wins and want an actual super bowl contender, just like we do.

There are TONS of GMs worse than Schneider, so I want to make it clear I don't think we can just sign any new GM and expect better results. The problem is that being stuck at 8-10 wins is boring, and people would rather alternate between good and bad stretches.

How many people would be fine with a couple losing seasons if it meant a super bowl appearance a couple years later? I think most would.

8-10 wins is boring. John Schneider is boring. I'm bored.

 

[AnimeAmore]

This quote here is painfully accurate and is why I have a bad feeling about the team moving forward while he's still the GM.

"Schneider’s belief that interior offensive linemen are overpaid and over drafted is fine — as long as he finds other ways to acquire good players. He has not."

Schneider needs to publicly apologize for being wrong about OL. I think his extremely poor track record combined with arrogance makes it necessary. It's one thing to neglect an area of the team, but it's another to admit that you did it intentionally while allowing it to destroy the offense.
Schneider is apparently the last person on the planet who thinks OL doesn't matter, and he's actually allowed to be a GM.

 

[James in PA]

Aside from the annual talk of how bad Seattle's O Line, the thing that irks me are these stupid washed or no name free agents getting signed every off-season to one year deals. It's like he's trying the Moneyball thing. Quality over quantity, John. I really dread free agency with him. And he'll definitely pull the same crap this year because he has no money to spend. Pretty infuriating given the lack of stars on this roster.

 

[Ozzy]

I’m giving John a chance to do it on his own. We know Pete had massive control of personnel. I like the draft the past two years and will wait to see what he does this off season

 

[seabowl]

I’ve said it 1000 times on this site, the Jamal Adams debacle just showed either his inexperience or lack of knowledge on negotiations and situational awareness. You do not trade a ton of capital for a top player who is at the end of a contract without renegotiating the next contract before the trade takes place. Adams and his agent had Seattle by the balls and could literally name their price because Seattle already committed in giving up two first round picks. Schneider left himself with absolutely zero leverage.

Right now, they are going through a similar situation with Ernest Jones although Seattle didn’t give up a ton of draft capital. With this said, Jones and his agent know that Seattle will have egg on their face if he is not re-signed because Seattle gave up draft capital for a half a season rental. This is why he has yet to be signed.

Sorry, but it’s amateur hour with Schneider and his overall thought process.

 

[Spin Doctor]

Aside from the annual talk of how bad Seattle's O Line, the thing that irks me are these stupid washed or no name free agents getting signed every off-season to one year deals. It's like he's trying the Moneyball thing. Quality over quantity, John. I really dread free agency with him. And he'll definitely pull the same crap this year because he has no money to spend. Pretty infuriating given the lack of stars on this roster.

Schneider has always been into the moneyball strategy. Even in the drafts, he's always favored quantity above all else. He loved trading down and acquiring mid round picks. Schneider's answer to the QB position the first time around was a third round QB and a backup QB from GB. The second time around we took a young flame out from Denver and a long time veteran in Geno Smith. Since Wilson has left we haven't even so much as bothered to draft a QB.

He's also straight up said that he doesn't value the interior line much. I think that Schneider very much has the belief that he can moneyball certain positions.

In FA we love the mid to lower tier guys, we generally sign a bunch of these guys and hope one will pan out. The issue here is that we inadvertently end up spending a ton in free agency.

 

[Ozzy]

I’ve said it 1000 times on this site, the Jamal Adams debacle just showed either his inexperience or lack of knowledge on negotiations and situational awareness. You do not trade a ton of capital for a top player who is at the end of a contract without renegotiating the next contract before the trade takes place. Adams and his agent had Seattle by the balls and could literally name their price because Seattle already committed in giving up two first round picks. Schneider left himself with absolutely zero leverage.

Right now, they are going through a similar situation with Ernest Jones although Seattle didn’t give up a ton of draft capital. With this said, Jones and his agent know that Seattle will have egg on their face if he is not re-signed because Seattle gave up draft capital for a half a season rental. This is why he has yet to be signed.

Sorry, but it’s amateur hour with Schneider and his overall thought process.

That trade was pushed by Pete not John.

 

[JayhawkMike]

He should have been fired years ago.

 

[toffee]

From the article:

Class 2024 FA signees were a horror show. John couldn't blame Pete anymore.

Here’s a rundown of those external free-agent signees:

• S Rayshawn Jenkins (two years, $12 million)
• OT George Fant (two years, $9.1 million)
• LB Jerome Baker (one year, $7 million)
• LB Tyrel Dodson (one year, $4.2 million)
• C Connor Williams (one year, $4 million)
• TE Pharaoh Brown (one year, $3.2 million)
• C Nick Harris (one year, $2.3 million)
• DT Johnathan Hankins (one year, $2.05 million)
• S K’Von Wallace (one year, $1.5 million)
• OG Laken Tomlinson (one year, $1.2 million)
• OL Tremayne Anchrum Jr. (one year, $1.1 million)
• WR Laviska Shenault Jr. (one year, $1.2 million)

and, our problems were rooted in poor scouting:

They can look to their division rival for an example of such a class. The Rams used the 19th and 39th picks on edge rusher Jared Verse and defensive tackle Braden Fiske. Verse made the Pro Bowl and is the favorite to win Defensive Rookie of the Year. Fiske led all rookies with 8.5 sacks and was one of the best first-year players in the trenches.

Despite Seattle drafting three offensive linemen in April, that unit performed poorly and is once again a position of urgent need entering the offseason. In March, Schneider said he believes guards are overdrafted and overpaid. While that might be true, those are tough words for the fan base to hear when the players on the roster are hamstringing the offense, which has generally been true of Seattle’s offensive line since at least 2016.

 

[seahawks08]

JS has been here a while and he has lost some personnel who went on to other teams. When you don’t win, he is not able to attract talent for his staff. That alone along with tendencies and behaviors from past years being in an organization so long is probably something that might need fresh eyes. He is friends with many league GMs, so he does have connections. I would however prefer he continues purely because with a young coach, you don’t want to change too many things to make it difficult on him.

 

[KinesProf]

He went into the 2024 offseason knowing full well that the oline and lbers were the issue and he signed Fant, Tomlinson, Anchrum, Harris, Williams, Baker and Dodson. Ugh. Meanwhile Philly pulls Becton (2.75m) and Baun (3.5M).

Disheartening, to say the least, to think that there might be such a gulf between the calibre of pro scouting departments when it comes to evaluating players already in the league.

Giving Dre'mont a bigger deal than what Zach Allen got in 2023 free agency is another one that really irks me.

 

[CalgaryFan05]

i genuinely belive that had we had even competent NFL playcalling, we win one or two more games. And if that happens, we are in the playoffs, the line doesnt look as bad, and we are talking about how close we are to another championship.

The Grubb hire threw a lot of what might have been out the window.

Totally agree with you.

 

[CalgaryFan05]

How culpable is John Schneider after another Seahawks disappointment?

The Seahawks are stuck in mediocrity, and their issues largely predate the arrival of new coach Mike Macdonald one year ago.

www.nytimes.com

Pretty good read. We all know about the continual o line problems. But last year's external free agent signees were a joke. I just don't think John will change the way he conducts business.

“The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.”

I've said it several times this season. Time for JS to go IMO.

If you're expecting him to magically fix the Oline - well - that's crazy talk. He's not going to do it.

Aside from a new/fancy/capable OC being able to mask the problem and squeak out a win or two more next year to give us hope - If he stays (and all indications look like he will so far) - Then I think we'll be in about the same situation for 2025.

I wholeheartedly agree with your quote: "I just don't think John will change the way he conducts business."

Unfortunately.

 

[Chukarhawk]

I’ve said it 1000 times on this site, the Jamal Adams debacle just showed either his inexperience or lack of knowledge on negotiations and situational awareness. You do not trade a ton of capital for a top player who is at the end of a contract without renegotiating the next contract before the trade takes place. Adams and his agent had Seattle by the balls and could literally name their price because Seattle already committed in giving up two first round picks. Schneider left himself with absolutely zero leverage.

Right now, they are going through a similar situation with Ernest Jones although Seattle didn’t give up a ton of draft capital. With this said, Jones and his agent know that Seattle will have egg on their face if he is not re-signed because Seattle gave up draft capital for a half a season rental. This is why he has yet to be signed.

Sorry, but it’s amateur hour with Schneider and his overall thought process.

Jamal Adams was all Pete, Pete wanted him.

 

[West TX Hawk]

I don’t see how one can objectively state the Adams fiasco was “all Pete”—what evidence do you have of that claim that absolves JS?

Do you folks really believe Pete was the one negotiating the contract and trade deals?

This all hearkens back to Schneider’s earlier high profile trades for rentals and getting burned:

Sheldon Richardson: gave up a 2nd rd pick (and Kearse) for a 1 year rental; lost in FA
Clowney: gave up a 3rd and 2 players for a 1 year rental; lost in FA

So after those deals, a reasonable conclusion could be drawn that JS didn’t want to get burned by another high profile trade. So after trading the farm for Adams, even if Pete coveted him, to give in to Adams’ agent and make him the highest paid safety in history was a complete dereliction of duties. Do people genuinely believe it was actually Pete giving him $38 mil guaranteed on a 4 year, $70 mil deal? Really?

With the constant OL problems and the organization stymied in mediocrity, I see no reason for JS to continue on.

He’s been here 15 years! Pete is gone-no more excuses. It’s time.

 

[AgentDib]

You do not trade a ton of capital for a top player who is at the end of a contract without renegotiating the next contract before the trade takes place.

We see this the same and it should be a ironclad rule. If we are giving up serious draft capital for a player then the extension needs to be worked out as part of the deal, no exceptions.

 

[KinesProf]

We see this the same and it should be a ironclad rule. If we are giving up serious draft capital for a player then the extension needs to be worked out as part of the deal, no exceptions.

I can see an argument in both directions actually.

One one hand if you trade for a guy without an extension agreed upon you are handing them leverage when it comes to signing that extension, and you may have traded draft picks for a short-term rental.

On the other hand, if you acquire a player and come to find that they aren't a fit in the room or on the team, you at least haven't doubled down on the error by giving them new money. They gave Percy 6 years upon acquiring him in March 2013, and they had had enough of him by October 2014. Had to swallow that. That should have been the money earmarked to keep Golden. It was bad for the room to allow Percy to jump the line of Seahawks WRs next up to be paid prior ever playing a down for the Hawks. It completely kneecapped the competition theme.

If you look at how they played for the most part and bounced around post-Seahawks, I'm pretty glad they didn't have new contracts ready to hand out to Sheldon Richardson and Jadeveon Clowney either.

The guys that fit - Duane Brown and Leonard Williams as examples, were retained on very palatable deals. Get em' in, seee if they fit, and then pay them.

I see the pros and cons with both approaches.

 

[Rat]

We see this the same and it should be a ironclad rule. If we are giving up serious draft capital for a player then the extension needs to be worked out as part of the deal, no exceptions.

Didn't we do that exact thing with Leonard Williams?

Granted, I'm not convinced that we couldn't have just signed him on free agency anyway and kept our second rounder. Regardless of what he said about why he signed here, I still think he would have come here since we were offering the most money.