How can Lock and Geno flourish under our OL.

toffee

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Assuming that we will go into next season with Geno and Lock, how could they survive our 'awful' OL? I am of the opinion that if they failed, OL won't be the major factor. Unless our OL regressed. Following from Profootball references on pocket time and QB pressure:

Pocket time, statistically, our OL provided average if not above average pocket time of 2.4 seconds. Most A list QBs had less time, or shall we assume that they needed less time? We are talking about 2.1sec for Big Ben, 2.2 sec for Rodgers, 2.3 sec for Brady, Murray, Burrow, and Mahomes;

Pockettime 1

QB pressure, 12s and most talking heads assumed our OL was bad due to constant QB pressure, but there is more to that stat! None of those QBs above having less than 2.4 secs had high QB pressure %! That led to my assumptions those QB didn't get 2.4sec? they didn't need 2.4sec. Getting rid of the ball with quick release, quick decisions, and plays designed for short pocket time.

Top 10 QB pressure % all had 2.4 sec or above. Pressure was often the by product of failure to get rid of the ball quickly.

Qbpressure

Going forward, Waldron must preach and insist quick read, and quick release. Our OL will love them for that and far less wear and tear on OL and QB. Why Brady is the GOAT? dude had 2.3 sec but only 11.1% qb pressure, and sack only 22 times in 17 games. Wilson had 2.4 seconds but 27% qb pressure and was sacked 33 times in 14 games.

Geno is in limited games held the ball a bit, Lock in his films wasn't decisive enough, both got area to work on and improve.
 

nwHawk

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Well, Geno managed to survive last year’s “bad” offensive line. Drew played with worse. So, I think either will survive. This line isn’t finished either. Wait until after the draft before you analyze what this year will bring.
 
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toffee

toffee

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Of course we hope that OL2022 will be better than OL2021, but I am also of the opinion that our OL wasn't as bad as some talking head led us to believe. I agree that it looked bad on TV, but once the stop watch started clicking, they have done an average job. Not great, not even good, but average I would argue.
 

balakoth

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So Wilson had just as much time to throw as the rest of the top QBs in the league.. but again.. its our Oline... not his ... roll right left and backwards bullshit...

This old tired.. non factual stat based narrative is old.

Thankfully I already ignore the idiot thats going to defend it
 

balakoth

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Well, Geno managed to survive last year’s “bad” offensive line. Drew played with worse. So, I think either will survive. This line isn’t finished either. Wait until after the draft before you analyze what this year will bring.
Don't worry Denver OLine already told him hes not going to get hit as much here.. because apparently Wilson won't play the same style with a top level time to throw stat :/

I cannot wait to be at the Denver game this year
 

balakoth

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Assuming that we will go into next season with Geno and Lock, how could they survive our 'awful' OL? I am of the opinion that if they failed, OL won't be the major factor. Unless our OL regressed. Following from Profootball references on pocket time and QB pressure:

Pocket time, statistically, our OL provided average if not above average pocket time of 2.4 seconds. Most A list QBs had less time, or shall we assume that they needed less time? We are talking about 2.1sec for Big Ben, 2.2 sec for Rodgers, 2.3 sec for Brady, Murray, Burrow, and Mahomes;

View attachment 11362

QB pressure, 12s and most talking heads assumed our OL was bad due to constant QB pressure, but there is more to that stat! None of those QBs above having less than 2.4 secs had high QB pressure %! That led to my assumptions those QB didn't get 2.4sec? they didn't need 2.4sec. Getting rid of the ball with quick release, quick decisions, and plays designed for short pocket time.

Top 10 QB pressure % all had 2.4 sec or above. Pressure was often the by product of failure to get rid of the ball quickly.

View attachment 11363

Going forward, Waldron must preach and insist quick read, and quick release. Our OL will love them for that and far less wear and tear on OL and QB. Why Brady is the GOAT? dude had 2.3 sec but only 11.1% qb pressure, and sack only 22 times in 17 games. Wilson had 2.4 seconds but 27% qb pressure and was sacked 33 times in 14 games.

Geno is in limited games held the ball a bit, Lock in his films wasn't decisive enough, both got area to work on and improve.
Why do you use pressure rate? You realize that doesn't account for time at all right? Just how much he was pressured after he ran around and rolled out for no reason because he couldn't see the WR he DIDNT want to throw too at the time...
 

FrodosFinger

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The first thing we can all agree on is Stone Forsythe is a waste of space
 
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toffee

toffee

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The first thing we can all agree on is Stone Forsythe is a waste of space
How did you come to this conclusion? He mustn't be quite ready as he didn't play much, He did however played 14 snaps, he didn't suffer any sacks or penalties and enjoyed PFF rating of 68.1.
 

Smellyman

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How did you come to this conclusion? He mustn't be quite ready as he didn't play much, He did however played 14 snaps, he didn't suffer any sacks or penalties and enjoyed PFF rating of 68.1.
and he was a 6th round pick. he was a low risk high upside player to take a flyer on. Nobody expected him to play right away. He needed reps and time at this level to get better.
 

Scout

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Forsythe is a developmental player that needs to become and all around OT to be able to compete for playing time. But he has a great skill set for the NFL if he further develops.

Seattle's offensive line is not that bad from what I have seen with myself and then compared to the rest of the league. Drafting another OL to throw into the mix would be beneficial for depth and competition IMO.
 

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I'm surprised about these stats and Matt Ryan. I always thought of him as a "quick read, throw-the-ball type of QB.

And Josh Allen? He was about 30 seconds away from captaining his team to a Superbowl. So maybe pressure and time in pocket point to some positive attributes, yes?
 

Ace_Rimmer

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What is Waldron's forte? Also, how much of the total amount of sacks given up were due to Russ not reading the D and making the proper corrections?
 

hawkfan68

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So Wilson had just as much time to throw as the rest of the top QBs in the league.. but again.. its our Oline... not his ... roll right left and backwards bullshit...

This old tired.. non factual stat based narrative is old.

Thankfully I already ignore the idiot thats going to defend it
Geno Smith was sacked 13 times in 3 1/4 games. Even the Jags sacked him 3 times. https://www.espn.com.au/nfl/player/gamelog/_/id/15864/geno-smith. He's sacked as much as Wilson, yet a much worse QB overall than Wilson. Color me not excited at the prospect of him leading the Seahawks or playing for any length of time. He was sacked 5 times in two consecutive weeks against the Steelers and Saints. Best he can do is hold a clipboard.
 
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keasley45

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Geno Smith was sacked 13 times in 3 1/4 games. Even the Jags sacked him 3 times. https://www.espn.com.au/nfl/player/gamelog/_/id/15864/geno-smith. He's sacked as much as Wilson, yet a much worse QB overall than Wilson. Color me not excited at the prospect of him leading the Seahawks or playing for any length of time. He was sacked 5 times in two consecutive weeks against the Steelers and Saints. Best he can do is hold a clipboard.
Yeah, forget that he was being told to just eat a sack instead of risking a turnover AND being intentionally limited in his role against the Steelers and Saints, clipboard Geno managed to post a 68% completion rate, 5 to 1 TD / INT ration, and set the franchise record for consecutive completed passes.

Russel couldnt buy a first down through the air last year and is barely average over his career. better QB overall than Geno? Sure. But lets not pretend the offense wasnt a bit hamstrung already by a QB whos completion percentage on 3rd down was 59% for his career.
For context, last year, Russel Wilson's 3rd down completion percentage was 48%, Locks - 59%, Geno - 68%

Career wise? Russ - 56%, Lock 56%, Geno 57%. Russ is undoubtedly over his career the more accomplished player and phenomenal and talented competitor who managed to work around his deficiencies, but when you judge specific statistical performance in key situations like getting the ball out or passing on known passing downs... the drop-off, well there is none. Where Russ was deficient, the guys we have in the stable now have the potential to be competent, and with Waldron, maybe better than that. Will they have Russ's magic? Nope. But they might not need it if they can work within Waldron's syetem, rely on the playcall and an understanding of the cheme to win the down, and limit the errors that they've struggled with in the past.
 

hawkfan68

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Yeah, forget that he was being told to just eat a sack instead of risking a turnover AND being intentionally limited in his role against the Steelers and Saints, clipboard Geno managed to post a 68% completion rate, 5 to 1 TD / INT ration, and set the franchise record for consecutive completed passes.

Russel couldnt buy a first down through the air last year and is barely average over his career. better QB overall than Geno? Sure. But lets not pretend the offense wasnt a bit hamstrung already by a QB whos completion percentage on 3rd down was 59% for his career.
For context, last year, Russel Wilson's 3rd down completion percentage was 48%, Locks - 59%, Geno - 68%

Career wise? Russ - 56%, Lock 56%, Geno 57%. Russ is undoubtedly over his career the more accomplished player and phenomenal and talented competitor who managed to work around his deficiencies, but when you judge specific statistical performance in key situations like getting the ball out or passing on known passing downs... the drop-off, well there is none. Where Russ was deficient, the guys we have in the stable now have the potential to be competent, and with Waldron, maybe better than that. Will they have Russ's magic? Nope. But they might not need it if they can work within Waldron's syetem, rely on the playcall and an understanding of the cheme to win the down, and limit the errors that they've struggled with in the past.
You might consider why they would ask him to do that (Geno Smith isn't a spring chicken, he's been in the league for 8 yrs). Most likely because they lack the confidence in the said player to make the necessary play.
 
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scutterhawk

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You might consider why they would ask him to do that (Geno Smith isn't a spring chicken, he's been in the league for 8 yrs). Most likely because they lack the confidence in the said player to make the necessary play.
No quarterback with as much rust as Geno had (by being a never play backup to Wilson), was going to come out of the chute firing on all cylinders, but let's be honest, he DID do well enough to earn more respect than he's gotten.
The very fact that Pete & John has shown their confidence in him by not only bringing him back, but giving him a raise to boot is kind of 'Telling'.
As far as Geno not being a "Spring Chicken", neither was Ben Roethlesbooger or Tom Brady, and I'll add, that Geno has a hell of a lot less wear & tear...Geno was playing with a system that was supposedly structured to RUSSELL WILSON'S style of 'Add Lib' play.
Now that the fetters are off of Geno, I'm curious as to how he and/or Drew might do with Waldren's system.
 
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keasley45

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No quarterback with as much rust as Geno had (by being a never play backup to Wilson), was going to come out of the chute firing on all cylinders, but let's be honest, he DID do well enough to earn more respect than he's gotten.
The very fact that Pete & John has shown their confidence in him by not only bringing him back, but giving him a raise to boot is kind of 'Telling'.
As far as Geno not being a "Spring Chicken", neither was Ben Roethlesbooger or Tom Brady, and I'll add, that Geno has a hell of a lot less wear & tear...Geno was playing with a system that was supposedly structured to RUSSELL WILSON'S style of 'Add Lib' play.
Now that the fetters are off of Geno, I'm curious as to how he and/or Drew might do with Waldren's system.

Yup. No guarantee or even assumption they'll necessarily tear it up. We just don't know what they'll do. But it's only complete gloom and doom if you want it to be, at this point. Both have shown (for different reasons) the potential to be more than they have in the past.
 
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