Good video on offensive innovation by the Seahawks

irfuben32

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I disagree. I think the terrible line play forced us into a lot of shotgun type stuff. Grubb was doing everything he could to work around that massive problem. Like starts playing better and we see less shotgun stuff. Others see it differently but that’s how I see it. Not saying he is or was perfect but most of the stuff he was being blamed for I don’t think was necessarily his fault. I said a couple weeks ago I think he’s going to be one of the best OC’s in the league and I still feel that way.

I can't find it, but I swear I saw a thing where MM wanted to run a lot of shotgun.
 

Crizilla

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Not that they're the first to dive into this, but I'm enjoying the staff's exploration of ideas and their good usage of personnel. Also really enjoyable to see how DK's excellence frees them up to do this.


Before they even brought up man to man I thought why in the world would ARZ play zone against those formations. Won't be that easy every game once teams figure this out the Seahawks will need to figure out an effective play action game (and continue to run the ball well fingers crossed).
 
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cymatica

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I disagree. I think the terrible line play forced us into a lot of shotgun type stuff. Grubb was doing everything he could to work around that massive problem. Like starts playing better and we see less shotgun stuff. Others see it differently but that’s how I see it. Not saying he is or was perfect but most of the stuff he was being blamed for I don’t think was necessarily his fault. I said a couple weeks ago I think he’s going to be one of the best OC’s in the league and I still feel that way.

Grubb admitted he had to change some things. Calling most your plays out of shotgun does the opposite of helping the Oline when you pass 75% out of it and run 75% from under center. Defenses knew what was coming.
 

TraderGary

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Grubb admitted he had to change some things. Calling most your plays out of shotgun does the opposite of helping the Oline when you pass 75% out of it and run 75% from under center. Defenses knew what was coming.
Which is one of the reasons I'm still not sold on Grubb. He just doesn't seem to be very creative or innovative. And he telegraphs too much, as you outlined here.

Another thing I've noticed is when Bobo comes in, it's going to be a run. That's giving too much of an advantage to the defense. If I can see it, you know damn well the opposing coaches and players see it. I believe others have commented on this as well.

He needs to learn from coaches like Shanahan and McVay. Run a number of different plays...... run and pass....... from the same formations and personnel groups. Keep the defense guessing and off balance.

I will agree that he called his best game thus far last week vs Arizona. I hope that trend continues. And the blocking schemes with the pulling guards and tackles was night and day better.

There is hope, but I'm not ready to anoint him just yet.
 

Ozzy

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Grubb admitted he had to change some things. Calling most your plays out of shotgun does the opposite of helping the Oline when you pass 75% out of it and run 75% from under center. Defenses knew what was coming.
I understand that but I also understand why he did it.

Regardless of how we view Grubb I think it’s a good thing he’s adapting? First year OC and for sake of argument let’s say he overcorrected for a bad line. He ended up remedying this. I like a lot of the stuff he’s done so far and really think with a stabilized line he’s going to be a great OC
 

Mick063

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The worst thing about this Grubb evolution is that ruins a whole bunch of "told ya so" prophecy.

.Net heads are exploding. It is so hard to be right when TV punditry reveals that you are wrong. It is time for some serious rationalization to counter it.

This we know: The world is not static. Things change. People can learn. People can get better. Snapshots in time never reveal the true story. An early season sample size isn't the final product.
 
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Shane Falco

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I am happy as hell to see the adjustments he's been making. I wasn't sold on Grubb for most of the season. Big deal, we have the right to have that opinion. I'm starting to think he's able to adjust and grow and I have now changed from not thinking he's going to make it - to well let's see where this goes. Good on him and good for us, continuity on the coaching staff will only help this team that much more going into next season.
 

keasley45

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I disagree. I think the terrible line play forced us into a lot of shotgun type stuff. Grubb was doing everything he could to work around that massive problem. Like starts playing better and we see less shotgun stuff. Others see it differently but that’s how I see it. Not saying he is or was perfect but most of the stuff he was being blamed for I don’t think was necessarily his fault. I said a couple weeks ago I think he’s going to be one of the best OC’s in the league and I still feel that way.

Even Mark Schlereth who after watching several of our games came to the conclusion that a big part of our problem is that we werent calling a smart game. Too much pass. Too much shotgun. Not enough commitment to the run. Tipping too much advantage to opposing defenses.
I dont know how you can watch the games we played and not understand the fundamental issue that was Grubb not doing what he has admitted to not doing himself. We were entirely out of balance and Grubb was, in the beginning, defensive about insisting 'we are a shotgun team and thats what we are going to do' . That's fine if that's your strength. But you dont undermine your strength by refusing to threaten to do anything else.

And one thing Schlereth said about our running woes that was so simple an observation one could almost dismiss it ad being too basic- that you cant expect to run block if you dont build confidence. And buikding confidence in part is about finding what you do well and doing it again and again and again. Disguise it by formation, confuse it motion and misdirection but find what you CAN do and repeat it until the other team stops it. We have done EXACTLY that the last two weeks.

The insistance on running out of shotgun the way we were and then running the same vanilla plays was a huge part of the problem. Not building through commitment to a philosophy (other than 'shotgun'), not growing out of mastering fundamentals and then leaning too far into complex blocking schemes that ensued was a major problem.
You disagree that a lot of the issue wasnt Grubb but his own admissions say otherwise. Even him saying his realization that the NFL doesnt afforded the number of possessions he was used to in the college game is telling.

Mike came out just before the bye and said he was realizing things were too complex on D and that he needed to simplify things and let the players do what they do well more often. He did that and across the board the play is better.

He also said that (paraphrasing) he was hoping that as the coaches on offense got more experience and focused on what the players did well (pretty sure he was speaking specifically in repsonse to a question about the run game and the o line) that the O would have the same kind of turnaround the D did.

Thats what is happening. Is our new guard helping? Sure. Is Lucas being back helping? Sure. But those two elements without improved judgdment and experience at the OC spot are nullified.

Schlereth has said this multiple times - Show him an O line that is struggling the way ours was a he can show you an OC that isnt doing something right. It was understandable that we were being beaten at spots where talent wasnt high. But to be beat the way we were points to something more.

Good on Grubb for fixing it. No one expected him to be perfect from day one. All you can hope for is honesty, humility, accountability andnthe willingness to grow. He seems to be showing that. If he keeps it up, he has the potential to be pretty damn good.
 

Chukarhawk

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Even Mark Schlereth who after watching several of our games came to the conclusion that a big part of our problem is that we werent calling a smart game. Too much pass. Too much shotgun. Not enough commitment to the run. Tipping too much advantage to opposing defenses.
I dont know how you can watch the games we played and not understand the fundamental issue that was Grubb not doing what he has admitted to not doing himself. We were entirely out of balance and Grubb was, in the beginning, defensive about insisting 'we are a shotgun team and thats what we are going to do' . That's fine if that's your strength. But you dont undermine your strength by refusing to threaten to do anything else.

And one thing Schlereth said about our running woes that was so simple an observation one could almost dismiss it ad being too basic- that you cant expect to run block if you dont build confidence. And buikding confidence in part is about finding what you do well and doing it again and again and again. Disguise it by formation, confuse it motion and misdirection but find what you CAN do and repeat it until the other team stops it. We have done EXACTLY that the last two weeks.

The insistance on running out of shotgun the way we were and then running the same vanilla plays was a huge part of the problem. Not building through commitment to a philosophy (other than 'shotgun'), not growing out of mastering fundamentals and then leaning too far into complex blocking schemes that ensued was a major problem.
You disagree that a lot of the issue wasnt Grubb but his own admissions say otherwise. Even him saying his realization that the NFL doesnt afforded the number of possessions he was used to in the college game is telling.

Mike came out just before the bye and said he was realizing things were too complex on D and that he needed to simplify things and let the players do what they do well more often. He did that and across the board the play is better.

He also said that (paraphrasing) he was hoping that as the coaches on offense got more experience and focused on what the players did well (pretty sure he was speaking specifically in repsonse to a question about the run game and the o line) that the O would have the same kind of turnaround the D did.

Thats what is happening. Is our new guard helping? Sure. Is Lucas being back helping? Sure. But those two elements without improved judgdment and experience at the OC spot are nullified.

Schlereth has said this multiple times - Show him an O line that is struggling the way ours was a he can show you an OC that isnt doing something right. It was understandable that we were being beaten at spots where talent wasnt high. But to be beat the way we were points to something more.

Good on Grubb for fixing it. No one expected him to be perfect from day one. All you can hope for is honesty, humility, accountability andnthe willingness to grow. He seems to be showing that. If he keeps it up, he has the potential to be pretty damn good.
Fair.
 
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MontanaHawk05

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I think people were just cynical after seven games because most coaches DON'T change. Too prideful, too incompetent. What we're seeing here is rare.

But the totality with which they've been able to turn things around - going from a 3-4 joke to the best defense in the NFL since week 10 - is a testament to how much talent they've got.
 

cymatica

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I understand that but I also understand why he did it.

Regardless of how we view Grubb I think it’s a good thing he’s adapting? First year OC and for sake of argument let’s say he overcorrected for a bad line. He ended up remedying this. I like a lot of the stuff he’s done so far and really think with a stabilized line he’s going to be a great OC
Absolutely I agree. Looks like he's figured some things out. My only point was that he was part of the reason for the horrible Oline play. Not hating on him at all.
 

Ozzy

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Absolutely I agree. Looks like he's figured some things out. My only point was that he was part of the reason for the horrible Oline play. Not hating on him at all.
And that’s fair
 

Natethegreat

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If we hadn't changed out our linebackers and made that turnaround people would still be convinced that Mike Mcdonald was the problem. We are fortunate Jones was available for trade because he is largely responsible for our improved run D.
Otherwise the improvement wouldn't be seen till next year. My point being that those demanding things happen RIGHT NOW or its time to fire everyone need to give the FO time to remake the personnel to get the guys they need.
The argument here that all the coaches suck (Grubb especially) and the players are being hindered by them is extremely short sighted. Especially when it comes to Geno. The turnovers are on him and his decisions period. Not Grubb, not Mcdonald. When he makes better decisions we can win, when he makes terrible ones, we struggle.
 

cymatica

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The argument here that all the coaches suck (Grubb especially) and the players are being hindered by them is extremely short sighted.
That was never the argument. You can still recognize that the way Grubb called offense was making it tougher on the Oline, while also recognizing that he doesn't suck but instead he has to adapt to the NFL. Yes the Oline also had some real issues in the first half of the season . Both things can be true
 

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