Bryce Young benched, Andy Dalton the starter

[Vesuve]

I like this interview of Ryan Leaf about Bryce Young and Carolina...and I agree with him...he calls the people at ESPN "dumb" and "bozos." Talks about the Carolina organization. It's short...worth a watch, IMO.

 

[keasley45]

Russell Wilson certainly was an anomaly. He created a situation where guys such as Murray and Young could get drafted number one overall. What a lot of people didn't understand, is Russ succeeded due to other elite attributes. Wilson was an elite athlete and composed underneath pressure. He was like Barry Sanders playing QB. He made even the most elite defenders look as if they were on a slip and slide.

We like to clown on Russ, hell even I like to clown on Russ, but he was a dang good QB. He was limited and couldn't see the middle of the field, but he made it work. It only worked because of his unique skillset. To this day, I don't know if I've ever seen a QB be able to launch the ball on the run at such weird angles, and deliver a dime 60+ yards downfield. Everything Wilson did defied logic, for all intents and purposes he should've been nothing but a back up. He made it work because he was an extremely unique talent, with an unusual skillset. Wilson wasn't the best pure QB out there, but as an athlete he sure as hell was slept on.

Bryce Young didn't have any of what Wilson had. He's built like a bean pole, has a below average arm and mediocre athleticism. In addition to that, he doesn't seem so good under pressure, which Wilson was. Having that Bama line really masked a lot of his issues. Under pressure, Bryce Young folds. His footwork becomes a sloppy mess and he forgets how to play football as soon as you hit him.

It's a damn shame, he does seem like he is a good guy.

Agree 100%. What Wilson was able to do was a one-off. His accuracy, arm strength, mobility, and steadiness under pressure allowed him to work around deficiencies that would have otherwise seen him on the pine.

He should have gone with Mr Impossible instead of 'Unlimited'.

 

[Rat]

It’s possible if he goes to the Texans and CU goes to the train wreck that is Carolina Bryce is the stud and CJ is the bust. Situation is massive for young quarterbacks. I think is what Brady that said if he went to a bad organization he could’ve been out of the league in 3 years.

Houston was supposed to be the bad situation. I remember all the talk about how the Cards could easily end up with the first two picks in the following draft from them. Young is the one who went to a team that was 7-9 the previous year, which is way better than most QBs drafted that early.

 

[bigskydoc]

It would have been better to sit Young behind Dalton from the get go. Second best is to sit him now. Keeping him as the starter would just destroy any potential he has. Hopefully he will be able to figure it out while working behind Dalton for a bit, and taking some of the pressure off.

 

[Weadoption]

I guess being a little guy playing on a college juggernaut team is not the same as being a little guy in a league of juggernaut players. I had him at #1, fooled me.
self doubt, for a #1, man that’s gotta be the killer, league has no way to measure how these high picks are really going to respond to NFL level adversity, they just flat out don’t know. throw darts.

 

[Spin Doctor]

Agree 100%. What Wilson was able to do was a one-off. His accuracy, arm strength, mobility, and steadiness under pressure allowed him to work around deficiencies that would have otherwise seen him on the pine.

He should have gone with Mr Impossible instead of 'Unlimited'.

Mr. Impossible is such a good phrase to describe Wilson, I love it. He routinely turned impossible situations into huge gains. Everything about Wilson was unorthodox and quite frankly, weird by NFL standards. It's so odd to me that so many GM's and scouts in the NFL didn't see that about him. The Broncos gave up obscene amounts of money and picks for the guy. They invested even more picks trying to bring his coach of choice into the fray. Teams are drafting guys like Bryce Young because of the success Wilson had. Before Wilson, players like Bryce Young were either backups, or told that they should switch to wide receiver if they were athletic enough.

Players such as Drew Brees, Russell Wilson and Fran Tarkenton are major exceptions in NFL history. Murray and Flutie are two other guys that succeeded, but to a much lesser extent than these three. I'm curious to see if Bryce Young's failure results in smaller QB's being looked at with more skepticism once again.

 

[Spin Doctor]

It would have been better to sit Young behind Dalton from the get go. Second best is to sit him now. Keeping him as the starter would just destroy any potential he has. Hopefully he will be able to figure it out while working behind Dalton for a bit, and taking some of the pressure off.

I agree with this sentiment. That being said, I don't think Carolina ever had that option due to the owners propensity to meddle in affairs. The situation over there is a nightmare and a damn shame.

 

[Ozzy]

Houston was supposed to be the bad situation. I remember all the talk about how the Cards could easily end up with the first two picks in the following draft from them. Young is the one who went to a team that was 7-9 the previous year, which is way better than most QBs drafted that early.

Sure but by all accounts a lot of their decisions have been terrible. His oline is terrible, zero receiving weapons, no running game, coach fired, terrible owner etc. I think most around the league thought Houston was a much better situation then and moving forward with their draft capitol, weapons in place for CJ etc.

I'm not saying none of it is Young's fault but its not out of the range of outcomes that CJ landed in a much better situation to succeed. It's possible right?

 

[bileever]

Sure but by all accounts a lot of their decisions have been terrible. His oline is terrible, zero receiving weapons, no running game, coach fired, terrible owner etc. I think most around the league thought Houston was a much better situation then and moving forward with their draft capitol, weapons in place for CJ etc.

I'm not saying none of it is Young's fault but its not out of the range of outcomes that CJ landed in a much better situation to succeed. It's possible right?

The Carolina situation demonstrates how difficult it is to fix the O-line. They spent $153 million on free agent guards this off season (Robert Hunt and Damien Lewis) which was a record for guards, and there O-line is still terrible. It might have been better to spread that money around and get some weapons for Bryce Young to throw to.

Of course, if you were a Seahawks fan, you would have already known that spending $53 million on Lewis was pure folly.

 

[chris98251]

Well problem with many teams as just because a player ranks high does not mean he fits the system you use to his strengths. You need Coach, GM, and OC / DC to all see the same thing and how it fits the system in place. Owner meddling Snyder, Jones, Tepper, Behring and others usually creates a trend of bad decisions.

We by choice did not invest heavily for a long time and then changed up our offense, our QB, different strengths and it was not syncing up with O line strengths, that and it takes time with O lines, they have to be a glove not a finger.

 

[IndyHawk]

I understand that Indy. Even down to the 53rd man, everyone on an NFL roster was THE MAN at some point.

But did anyone predict he’d be this bad? I certainly didn’t.

Hmm I predicted he would bust; we had a thread pre-draft going that year.
I'm not saying I thought he would be this bad though, a bust is bust however
it looks right?
I'm still trying to understand why people thought a real short QB with a small
frame, not very fast was worth a first-round pick.
@Ozzy you remember this right? I'm happy we didn't get stuck with him.
I can almost picture Pete trying to talk JS into it lol.

 

[IndyHawk]

It’s possible if he goes to the Texans and CU goes to the train wreck that is Carolina Bryce is the stud and CJ is the bust. Situation is massive for young quarterbacks. I think is what Brady that said if he went to a bad organization he could’ve been out of the league in 3 years.

Stroud is pretty damn good (The one I wanted)
I think he would have won more and put up some numbers but Playoffs?
I'm not going that far but he is a better QB for sure with the body to survive
in the NFL.
Let's use Me3 for a second, he's short but had a body, speed and a arm right?
Then look at Young - Shorter, no body, no speed and a weak arm.
Just let that sink in.

 

[Rat]

Sure but by all accounts a lot of their decisions have been terrible. His oline is terrible, zero receiving weapons, no running game, coach fired, terrible owner etc. I think most around the league thought Houston was a much better situation then and moving forward with their draft capitol, weapons in place for CJ etc.

I'm not saying none of it is Young's fault but its not out of the range of outcomes that CJ landed in a much better situation to succeed. It's possible right?

They've made better decisions since, but I think it'd also be accurate to say that CJ makes the players around him much better than Bryce has. I don't know that CJ has the Panthers on the playoff fringes, but I'll bet at least Frank Reich still has a job and they look at least somewhat competitive in their so-so division. I doubt anyone would be questioning whether it was the right decision.

Yes, situation is critical; it just annoys me when fans say things like "even Mahomes would struggle behind this line", which is tangential since I know you weren't taking it to that extreme. There are a lot of moving parts that decide these things.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Mahomes wouldn't struggle behind any line. He's that good.

 

[Maelstrom787]

I have to agree with the benching as the correct move for all parties.

Canales needed to do something. Bryce clearly is at a point where he isn't developing. He's not processing the game, he's stuck in a fight-or-flight mindset, and he just... isn't doing well.

At this point in time, there wasn't a justification for leaving Bryce out there. Consider the following:


1. There are 52 other Panthers that Canales has to answer to.

This is obvious, but there's an entire Panthers team to consider. Bryce isn't giving them a shot to win. Any other player on the roster is subject to being supplanted on the depth chart should they be an obvious detriment, regardless of whether or not they had been put in a position to succeed. Bryce cannot be treated differently.

As cynical as us outside observers may be about the Panthers chances - there are 52 dudes on that team risking mind and body weekly. They have finite careers. They don't have time to waste when it comes to developing a QB in crisis on the job. They deserve to have a chance to win now - otherwise, they're not going to buy in.

Canales couldn't abide by Bryce starting any longer and have a plausible reasoning that his team would buy. He had to pull him.


2. The Panthers didn't help Bryce, but leaving him in doesn't help him either.

Yes. The Panthers have been a total dysfunctional mess from the top down for years. Tepper has ruined that organization.

Yes. Bryce was thrown to the wolves and surrounded by nothing but complete chaos, and he didn't really have a shot.

However, those are reasons to bench him, NOT reasons to leave him in. Benching Bryce isn't an act of hostility - it's an act of mercy.

Bryce obviously needs to reset. Mentally, mechanically... all of it. Canales knows this better than anyone - he's one of the more talented QB coaches alive, and he's got the track record.

Pulling Bryce out of the game to rehabilitate him as a signal caller is the best move for the outlook of his career. It takes the week-to-week pressure off of him so that he can focus solely on improving.

Andy, meanwhile, has been around the block. He gives the Panthers the best chance to compete now, and he gives them a steadier presence under center. They can stabilize the ship with him before it sinks.

Canales did the right thing. This was really the only option he had.

 

[Maelstrom787]

Mahomes wouldn't struggle behind any line. He's that good.

Nah, it happens. We've seen it happen. He's struggling behind his current one this year, in fact.

It was a primary reason for the blowout loss vs. Tampa Bay in Brady's last SB win, in fact. He threw for 0TD and 2INT in that game when his OL failed.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

"Struggling" is a little different for Mahomes. He just wins. No matter who is on the field.

 

[Rat]

Canales is also the Panthers' seventh head coach in the last five years. With an owner who has an itchy trigger finger, he has his own job to think about and Bryce is making him look bad. He needs a higher floor to work with.

 

[GemCity]

Hmm I predicted he would bust; we had a thread pre-draft going that year.
I'm not saying I thought he would be this bad though, a bust is bust however
it looks right?
I'm still trying to understand why people thought a real short QB with a small
frame, not very fast was worth a first-round pick.
@Ozzy you remember this right? I'm happy we didn't get stuck with him.
I can almost picture Pete trying to talk JS into it lol.

I didn’t think he would be all that good either. But, I had no idea it would be this bad.

Agree with everything you’ve said…especially about having a smaller frame without the speed.

 

[Ozzy]

Stroud is pretty damn good (The one I wanted)
I think he would have won more and put up some numbers but Playoffs?
I'm not going that far but he is a better QB for sure with the body to survive
in the NFL.
Let's use Me3 for a second, he's short but had a body, speed and a arm right?
Then look at Young - Shorter, no body, no speed and a weak arm.
Just let that sink in.

Oh I agree. CJ is much better regardless of situation. I wanted him or Richardson