12th man advantage is gone?

[Aircrew]

Sad indeed. I can't help but remember back in the Kingdome when us, the fans, would get flagged by the refs for being too loud and we'd respond by getting even louder...man those were the days.

 

[James in PA]

Sad indeed. I can't help but remember back in the Kingdome when us, the fans, would get flagged by the refs for being too loud and we'd respond by getting even louder...man those were the days.

I really wish the Hawks would go back to playing in a dome. It would be even louder and we've never been able to use wet conditions to our advantage. If anything, it usually seems to be a disadvantage

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Nah, football should be played outside.

 

[AgentDib]

The stadium itself is great.

One of the big problems is many fans have been treating season tickets as an investment. We've had sustained success for a long time, and after market ticket prices have been consistently higher than the face values even after you factor in the preseason tickets. The four seats directly next to me have been on sale every game for three seasons and are usually occupied by opposing fans.

Personally, I would like it if the Hawks took a picture of each section and had an assistant review them during the week and flag opposing fans. If the seat had an opposing fan in half of the games then the holder should lose their renewal privileges and it should go to the next person on the waiting list. Unfortunately, this wouldn't completely solve the problem since a bunch of the "investor" sellers have charter seats.

 

[ZagHawk]

Totally gone, and it's not one thing that caused it, it's all of them combined.

In the peak LOB era, the fans went through years of bad football, and like the players themselves, the fans felt a chip on their shoulder and were engaged to finally see the team performing well. The team attitude of smash mouth football fed into all of that. The defense feeding off of the crowd noise (and the opposing offense being hurt by the crowd noise) is really a chicken and egg thing of what came first, it's hard to say. Defense performing well, results in fans staying loud and making their impact. Defense not performing well and not getting off the field on third down, results in fans feeling helpless, sitting down and getting quiet, and that noise no longer being an impact to the opposing offense.

The 2012-2014 era, the seats were still affordable (I had seats, they were $70/each) to people who wanted to go to games and do our part. Then 2015+, the vibe changed, when the Hawks did not perform, it starting feeling like the same problems why...which is frustrating. During that time seats got more and more expensive (My seats went from $70...to $115 in that span). People then get forced to start selling tickets to more and more games, because also the tickets were no longer commanding 3-4x face value, where you could sell 1 game (to fellow Seattle fans), to bring your family to 3-4 games. It hit a point where you couldn't even GIVE away your tickets to a local Seattle fan, and guess who is paying...most likely opposing team fans. I eventually gave up my season tickets, because I went from 2 to 4 seats, which at first was $1500...and then with the 4 seats and the ticket increases was more like $6000.

No one I knew wanted in on my seats with me, I had to release them. They were most likely picked up by someone who just wanted them to sell them moving forward. This is my personal story.

I went to my first game in over a year (the TNF Niners game). I spent $400 for 2 seats, to watch our Hawks have their asses handed to them. I spent that money, because my daughter showed interest in going to a game and I want her to love our hawks as much as I do, but it was hard for her to enjoy the game that much watching our team get blasted. I sort of wish I bought tickets to a cheaper game (which probably would have had a higher likelihood of the team performing well too). I was loud initially, but I started sitting as I noticed despite doing my part, it was doing nothing if the defense wasn't going to do their part. p.s. This was the same feeling I had for PC games the 1 game I went to last year as well.

The fans need to believe that the noise makes a difference with the defense getting off the field, or at least getting pressure on the QB, and the offense actually staying ON the field, and the ridiculous price gouging by the Seahawks org has not helped either.

 

[keasley45]

Play good football and it will come back.
The garbage we been watching will make any fanbase apathetic.

There was a decade of terrible ball in seattle in the 90s and the fans still showed out. There was a dark meandering period at the tail end of Holmgren's tenure and the LOB and fans still showed out.

The fan base has just become fickle.

 

[RedAlice]

The stadium itself is great.

One of the big problems is many fans have been treating season tickets as an investment. We've had sustained success for a long time, and after market ticket prices have been consistently higher than the face values even after you factor in the preseason tickets. The four seats directly next to me have been on sale every game for three seasons and are usually occupied by opposing fans.

Personally, I would like it if the Hawks took a picture of each section and had an assistant review them during the week and flag opposing fans. If the seat had an opposing fan in half of the games then the holder should lose their renewal privileges and it should go to the next person on the waiting list. Unfortunately, this wouldn't completely solve the problem since a bunch of the "investor" sellers have charter seats.

In order to do that, there would need to have been something in the agreement when the tickets were purchased that limits selling to opposing team fans.

Otherwise, you can't just tell people after the fact what they can and can't do with something they bought and own.

 

[RedAlice]

There was a decade of terrible ball in seattle in the 90s and the fans still showed out. There was a dark meandering period at the tail end of Holmgren's tenure and the LOB and fans still showed out.

The fan base has just become fickle.

Wasn't it more affordable to attend football in the 90s?

I love love love going to games live. Even games where the Rams are not playing. But these days though the cost for a good seat is something to consider if I really want to do that or do something else.

 

[AROS]

Totally gone, and it's not one thing that caused it, it's all of them combined.

In the peak LOB era, the fans went through years of bad football, and like the players themselves, the fans felt a chip on their shoulder and were engaged to finally see the team performing well. The team attitude of smash mouth football fed into all of that. The defense feeding off of the crowd noise (and the opposing offense being hurt by the crowd noise) is really a chicken and egg thing of what came first, it's hard to say. Defense performing well, results in fans staying loud and making their impact. Defense not performing well and not getting off the field on third down, results in fans feeling helpless, sitting down and getting quiet, and that noise no longer being an impact to the opposing offense.

The 2012-2014 era, the seats were still affordable (I had seats, they were $70/each) to people who wanted to go to games and do our part. Then 2015+, the vibe changed, when the Hawks did not perform, it starting feeling like the same problems why...which is frustrating. During that time seats got more and more expensive (My seats went from $70...to $115 in that span). People then get forced to start selling tickets to more and more games, because also the tickets were no longer commanding 3-4x face value, where you could sell 1 game (to fellow Seattle fans), to bring your family to 3-4 games. It hit a point where you couldn't even GIVE away your tickets to a local Seattle fan, and guess who is paying...most likely opposing team fans. I eventually gave up my season tickets, because I went from 2 to 4 seats, which at first was $1500...and then with the 4 seats and the ticket increases was more like $6000.

No one I knew wanted in on my seats with me, I had to release them. They were most likely picked up by someone who just wanted them to sell them moving forward. This is my personal story.

I went to my first game in over a year (the TNF Niners game). I spent $400 for 2 seats, to watch our Hawks have their asses handed to them. I spent that money, because my daughter showed interest in going to a game and I want her to love our hawks as much as I do, but it was hard for her to enjoy the game that much watching our team get blasted. I sort of wish I bought tickets to a cheaper game (which probably would have had a higher likelihood of the team performing well too). I was loud initially, but I started sitting as I noticed despite doing my part, it was doing nothing if the defense wasn't going to do their part. p.s. This was the same feeling I had for PC games the 1 game I went to last year as well.

The fans need to believe that the noise makes a difference with the defense getting off the field, or at least getting pressure on the QB, and the offense actually staying ON the field, and the ridiculous price gouging by the Seahawks org has not helped either.

Excellent post. Couldn't agree more.

 

[jammerhawk]

The Bills fans like those of a few other teams travel a lot and well as the Bills Mafia. The prices paid by those fans for tickets was insane high.

Don't think the home advantage is completely gone but the team needs to start winning atmhome or it will certainly be gone. I can remember not having a voice for several days following the game and having my ears ring after the game due to the loudness, that needs to return.

 

[bileever]

Seattle fans are fickle. That's one answer.

The other question is whether the universe of die-hard fans and the universe of season ticket holders is the same.

As ticket prices increase, some unusual things start to happen. First, the casual fan who happens to have a lot of money might replace the die-hard fan who can't afford the tickets. Second, as prices on the secondary market increase, ticket holders are more motivated to sell their tickets. Third, some people buy season tickets with the idea that they will sell some of the tickets to cover the cost of the season ticket.

Fourth, some tickets are bought by people with the specific intent to resell them. Some states have anti-scalping laws to prevent this. Seattle had such a law, but after a case was thrown out of court due to "selective enforcement," Seattle lifted the ban on reselling tickets in 2005. How much of this goes on, I can't say. I don't know if there is any way of tracking this. I've read that some teams have tried to stop this behavior, but with little success.

 

[Torc]

Mike Macdonald was asked about it and he gave the correct answer, to the effect that "we need to put a product on the field that the fans want to cheer for".

Winning will solve this problem.

 

[jammerhawk]

Completely Agree!!!

 

[ZagHawk]

Fourth, some tickets are bought by people with the specific intent to resell them. Some states have anti-scalping laws to prevent this. Seattle had such a law, but after a case was thrown out of court due to "selective enforcement," Seattle lifted the ban on reselling tickets in 2005. How much of this goes on, I can't say. I don't know if there is any way of tracking this. I've read that some teams have tried to stop this behavior, but with little success.

Anytime a company claims they try to stop resellers whether its tickets for an event, shoes, toys, name any hot item that gets sold digitally, is just doing it for lip service to the upset portion of buyers/collectors/whiners. The fact is it is impossible to stop resellers because...the good ones (and the ones that buy it all) are good at what they do. They use bots, they use ghost profiles, they use different credit cards, one time use credit cards (banks do this), variations of addresses and even have multiple addresses of those credit cards, multiple addresses (because its cheap to get multiple addresses at a UPS), etc. The amount of forensic research it would take to find and stop a reseller who probably also consistently purchases a very large scale amount of items from the seller/manufacturer/team/ticketmaster/etc, is actually a conflict of interest for them. They know the reality of resellers and how it actually benefits their sales consistently, they know how useless it would be to try and stop them and how much wasted money it would take to do so. The attempts to stop bots and etc and false penalties restricting resales is just lip service and then they make an example out of the few people who are novices at this game and really are NOT the resellers that make impact. The ones who try to use multiple devices in the same house, with the same credit card, the same billing address, etc. I'm pretty familiar with this world because I was big into collectibles, you just gotta accept it for what it is. And either pay the prices for convenience, or figure out how to beat the system yourself and/or join the communities that do or offer the service for somewhat cheap. They are easy to find.

 

[warden]

The Seahawks and ticket master encourage resellers.

 

[ZagHawk]

The Seahawks and ticket master encourage resellers.

The fact that ticketmaster itself creates a "Safe" marketplace for reselling (as they get to take their SECOND cut on a ticket)....is proof enough

 

[knownone]

The home field advantage has been gone for years now. My buddy and I were floored by how many Bills fans there were. It can still get loud for sure but it’s nothing like it was 10 years ago. End of a Golden Era for sure.

Sad.

This.

The atmosphere hasn't been the same since 2015.

 

[warden]

I remember being as loud as hell back in the kingdome days when we were a crappy team.

 

[Madrid Hawk]

Last time I was able to afford the go, it was because the tickets were gifted by the company for whom I worked.

 

[hawkfannj]

the younger Seahawk fans under forty are as fickle as the come. They have no clue what hard times are about

If you made it through the 90s with this team, you were definitely battle tested