Cap Space for 2013

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Cap Space for 2013
Tue Jan 08, 2013 11:46 am
  • Thanks to a cap carryover, looks like we have some cash to spend on a pass rusher to replace Clemons if we want to go that route since he likely will not be ready to go next season, as well as extend some of our current contracts.

    Seattle appears best positioned, at least initially, to operate freely from a cap standpoint in 2013.

    ...

    Clayton's latest mailbag notes that teams are managing a flatter cap by pushing unused space into the future. Seattle did this on a large scale in 2012, one reason the team has $18.6 million in space for 2013.


    http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcwest/post/_/id/87970/updated-look-at-nfc-west-cap-situations
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Re: Cap Space for 2013
Tue Jan 08, 2013 11:49 am
  • And very little to worry about as far as FA's go. This FO has done a remarkable job.
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Re: Cap Space for 2013
Tue Jan 08, 2013 11:50 am
  • How many teams do you see after a major rebuild, on the cusp of having a damn good team in all aspects of the game have that much cap space? Not very many. Usually teams at this point in talent and competitiveness have paid dearly to get there.
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Re: Cap Space for 2013
Tue Jan 08, 2013 11:56 am
  • This is one of the reasons I see absolutely no rush in trading off Flynn until we can secure a solid backup to replace him. Too many people are screaming that we have to trade him because he's killing our cap, but we are really in good cap position. We have no financial reason to have to be rid of any players, and have enough space to re-sign our own players to whatever amounts of money they are worth.

    I really LOVE the fact that we have built this team through youth. Younger players have MUCH less impact on the cap, and if the player contracts are staggered out so you only have a few high dollar contracts to re-up in any given offseason, you are able to keep the players you really want to keep. Schneider/Carroll have done a great job of building this team with young talent and looking ahead through the contract expiration dates, it seems that they are mostly staggered over the next few years so we don't have too many players coming into free agency with high expectations at any one time. This team really is set up for a potential long term run with many of the same players.
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Re: Cap Space for 2013
Tue Jan 08, 2013 12:05 pm
  • To go along with the Flynn cap arguement, I just look at it as if there's X amount of money to be spent at the QB position, and I don't care how it's used up as long as it helps the team win (IMO).


    Let's try and paint a mental picture...


    Flynn and Wilson are two parts of a whole, it doesn't mater how that cap is sliced. If they want to trade Flynn to have three parts of a whole filled at the QB position, that's all fine and dandy. However, if they bring someone in, they'll only be saving a few million until Wilson gets a contract extension. Then that missing fourth will then again be filled.


    I think I spent too much time in math class...does any of thismake sense to anyone else? haha. I'm having a hard time putting my thoughts into words...
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Re: Cap Space for 2013
Tue Jan 08, 2013 12:08 pm
  • Cliff Avril is a free agent...
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Re: Cap Space for 2013
Tue Jan 08, 2013 12:15 pm
  • I say lock up your own.. Kam, Jason Jones and/or Browner in the offseason.. can't entertain extensions for Sherm or KJ until after 3 accrued seasons..
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Re: Cap Space for 2013
Tue Jan 08, 2013 12:16 pm
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    Seahawks - ton of cap space....so, no need to jettison Flynn or Miller after all.
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Re: Cap Space for 2013
Tue Jan 08, 2013 12:23 pm
  • SouthSoundHawk wrote:To go along with the Flynn cap arguement, I just look at it as if there's X amount of money to be spent at the QB position, and I don't care how it's used up as long as it helps the team win (IMO).


    Let's try and paint a mental picture...


    Flynn and Wilson are two parts of a whole, it doesn't mater how that cap is sliced. If they want to trade Flynn to have three parts of a whole filled at the QB position, that's all fine and dandy. However, if they bring someone in, they'll only be saving a few million until Wilson gets a contract extension. Then that missing fourth will then again be filled.


    I think I spent too much time in math class...does any of thismake sense to anyone else? haha. I'm having a hard time putting my thoughts into words...


    that works if you want to spread contracts uniformly
    say, as a hypothetical example - sherman could have his contract renewed this year (he can't), we could frontload a contract that pays him what he deserves. And that 8m or whatever it is that we'd have to pay to Flynn could all go to Sherman this year, with a contract with low(er). future cap implications, but pays the man what he deserves.

    So, consider, for example a 5 year 50m contract (which is in the range of what we will have to pay Sherman if he keeps up his performances)

    Instead of trying to spread it as 10m a year and taking a 10m cap hit every year, we could dump Flynn this year, augment Sherman's base salary in 2013 with the cap and thus reduce the cap hit in future years. It'd basically be the exact opposite of what teams whose window is "closing" do (huge signing bonus, long contract, cap hit spread over many years instead of up-front).

    Then, when it comes time to renew Wilson's contract, you've got a bit more room because you used that cap space wisely a few years previously
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Re: Cap Space for 2013
Tue Jan 08, 2013 12:29 pm
  • I like your version better!


    I don't have a strong grasp of the salary cap to begin with, haha.


    Thanks for the more artisically painted mental image! You're the Di Vinci to my Melzi and/or Salai.
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Re: Cap Space for 2013
Tue Jan 08, 2013 12:32 pm
  • Cardinals blew their wad on that insane Fitzgerland contract and now don't have anyone that can throw him the ball.

    The Kolb deal didn't help either.

    Horrible! 49ers will have some decisions to make as well, although obviously jettisoning Alex Smith will help a lot.

    And yes, we are going to need to rollover cap space as we have some expensive renewals coming in the next few years. All in all, excellent management by the front office.
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Re: Cap Space for 2013
Tue Jan 08, 2013 12:35 pm
  • themunn wrote:
    SouthSoundHawk wrote:To go along with the Flynn cap arguement, I just look at it as if there's X amount of money to be spent at the QB position, and I don't care how it's used up as long as it helps the team win (IMO).


    Let's try and paint a mental picture...


    Flynn and Wilson are two parts of a whole, it doesn't mater how that cap is sliced. If they want to trade Flynn to have three parts of a whole filled at the QB position, that's all fine and dandy. However, if they bring someone in, they'll only be saving a few million until Wilson gets a contract extension. Then that missing fourth will then again be filled.


    I think I spent too much time in math class...does any of thismake sense to anyone else? haha. I'm having a hard time putting my thoughts into words...


    that works if you want to spread contracts uniformly
    say, as a hypothetical example - sherman could have his contract renewed this year (he can't), we could frontload a contract that pays him what he deserves. And that 8m or whatever it is that we'd have to pay to Flynn could all go to Sherman this year, with a contract with low(er). future cap implications, but pays the man what he deserves.

    So, consider, for example a 5 year 50m contract (which is in the range of what we will have to pay Sherman if he keeps up his performances)

    Instead of trying to spread it as 10m a year and taking a 10m cap hit every year, we could dump Flynn this year, augment Sherman's base salary in 2013 with the cap and thus reduce the cap hit in future years. It'd basically be the exact opposite of what teams whose window is "closing" do (huge signing bonus, long contract, cap hit spread over many years instead of up-front).

    Then, when it comes time to renew Wilson's contract, you've got a bit more room because you used that cap space wisely a few years previously


    You almost never see a player get a first year base number much over the minimum. That would be POOR cap management. You pay the man with a SIGNING BONUS. This gives him the huge money for this year, then in the following years, the annual salary grows with other bonuses set to augment that as well. Having the Signing bonus allows teams to let the cap hit over the length of the contract, so if the player gets a $15 million signing bonus and his contract is for 5 years, it would spread out at $3 million per year. This is a MUCH more likely scenario than giving a small signing bonus and upping his base salary to count against the cap in the early years. Also, to alleviate cap numbers later in the contract as the base salary increases, teams just re-sign them to new contracts that give them a fresh signing bonus that stretches out again. This is how teams often play the slight of hand tricks with the salary cap. Flynn's next 2 seasons won't keep us from signing any of our guys. ESPECIALLY with the knowledge that we have over $18 million in cap money. This is plenty to be able to sign our guys, bring in some good free agents and have money left over.
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Re: Cap Space for 2013
Tue Jan 08, 2013 12:39 pm
  • HawkFan72 wrote:Thanks to a cap carryover, looks like we have some cash to spend on a pass rusher to replace Clemons if we want to go that route since he likely will not be ready to go next season, as well as extend some of our current contracts.


    We got our replacement for Clemons on the team already. His name is Bruce Irvin. I would be shocked if we spend big money on a pass rushing DE, Clem will be around (probably on IR but we still got money tied up in him) and Irvin was a first round pick. I see us using a later draft pick on a player to replace Irvin's spot duty role.

    Personally I want us to give Thomas his extension this year. Than spend some money on the o-line, there should be a couple options out there better than what we got. Branch is FA, so I also wouldn't mind seeing us spend some money on a big name replacement for him, I think that'll really help the defense more than anything.

    The reason we are in the position we are in, is because we don't throw big money around. I don't see any reason to start doing that now, a big resigning (Please be Thomas) and maybe one big FA and that's probably it.
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Re: Cap Space for 2013
Tue Jan 08, 2013 12:39 pm
  • What's nice is how capable the FO is at finding young talent in the draft. With the new regulations on rookie pay scale, there should be plenty of space to sign most if not anyone on this team to nice extensions. WHILE, finding the missing pieces to the puzzle. Which in my opinion are DT, CB, LB and WR.


    I can also see some of these guys taking a slight decrease in pay just to keep the core unit intact...wishful thinking???
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Re: Cap Space for 2013
Tue Jan 08, 2013 12:48 pm
  • As a side question related to this topic: has a team really ever truly "turned their team around" with the aquisition of a big free-agent defensive lineman?

    Look at recent examples of biggest Defensive line signings by year since 2009:

    2009 Albert Haynesworth? Is there a worse free-agent signing in history? Haynesworth totally busted for the Redskins after being paid as a free agent.

    2010 Julius Peppers? He's done really well in Chicago stats-wize, but they haven't been to the playoffs since the first year of his contract in 2010.

    2011 Cullen Jenkins? Significant drop in production from the Packers to the Eagles, and obviously hasn't helped their pass rush enough to get them in the playoffs.

    2012 Mario Williams? Sack specialist, but hasn't done the Bills much good this year. Too bad, because he played for NC State and was a legit number 1 pick in Houston until this year.
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Re: Cap Space for 2013
Tue Jan 08, 2013 12:53 pm
  • Jazzhawk wrote:Image

    Seahawks - ton of cap space....so, no need to jettison Flynn or Miller after all.



    LOL @ the Cardinals. How's that Kolb contract tasting about now Cards fans?

    Maybe they'd be willing to trade Dockett, here's what he said after the season was over;

    Dockett hinted that he feels unwanted and that the organization needs to be more committed to winning, but also says he's content in Arizona. He was one of several veterans to butt heads with coach Ken Whisenhunt this season


    Dockett's still owed roughly 15 million guaranteed I think, he signed a four year contract in 2010 with 30 million guaranteed, up to 48 million.
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Re: Cap Space for 2013
Tue Jan 08, 2013 12:55 pm
  • So I think it's cold to say, but do you trade Clemons for picks?
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Re: Cap Space for 2013
Tue Jan 08, 2013 12:57 pm
  • Shock2k wrote:So I think it's cold to say, but do you trade Clemons for picks?


    Nobody is going to trade picks for a guy who's out recovering from ACL surgery. By the draft, not even his own personal physicians would be able to give you a realistic timeline for any possible return. AFTER he's proven he's healthy it could be possible, but by then, the draft would be long since past. Also, we have a lot of cap space and that number INCLUDES Clemons' contract, so I think this is a non-issue right now.
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Re: Cap Space for 2013
Tue Jan 08, 2013 12:58 pm
  • Shock2k wrote:So I think it's cold to say, but do you trade Clemons for picks?


    Can't trade an injured player.
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Re: Cap Space for 2013
Tue Jan 08, 2013 1:00 pm
  • The Hawks signed Kerney and our defense improved significantly. He had over 15 sacks I believe and was the frontrunner for the DPOY for much of the season. The pressure he created made a very poor defensive backfield almost serviceable. His injuries that piled up after that year though ended his career, but he was a big boost for our team. Finding another guy like him this offseason would be big I think. Who is out there? I don't know, but it can certainly have an impact. Even the Hawks acquisition of Clemons and Raheem Brock helped the defense to make significant strides right off the bat. I don't guess that's what you mean by big signings though.

    I can go back to one though, and it will maybe change your mind, and this is if you're talking over a long period of time, and not just in the past few years, and it was when the Packers signed Reggie White. Was there ever a bigger move as far as turning a team's defense and ultimately its franchise's fortunes around? I don't think so. They went from being a team that were developing, into a team that was dominating. Reggie made that team go, and it kind of irritates me how much credit Favre gets for that era, when you look at what he did every other year in his career. Reggie's prime/dominant years were the same for the Packers. He was amazing. He probably put together a couple of the best seasons by a DL ever in NFL history.
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Re: Cap Space for 2013
Tue Jan 08, 2013 1:02 pm

Re: Cap Space for 2013
Tue Jan 08, 2013 1:06 pm
  • Hasselbeck wrote:
    Shock2k wrote:So I think it's cold to say, but do you trade Clemons for picks?


    Can't trade an injured player.


    Yes I know. I mean after he's recovered. A better question would have been, when do we part with Clemons?
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Re: Cap Space for 2013
Tue Jan 08, 2013 1:07 pm
  • SharkHawk wrote:The Hawks signed Kerney and our defense improved significantly. He had over 15 sacks I believe and was the frontrunner for the DPOY for much of the season. The pressure he created made a very poor defensive backfield almost serviceable. His injuries that piled up after that year though ended his career, but he was a big boost for our team. Finding another guy like him this offseason would be big I think. Who is out there? I don't know, but it can certainly have an impact. Even the Hawks acquisition of Clemons and Raheem Brock helped the defense to make significant strides right off the bat. I don't guess that's what you mean by big signings though.

    I can go back to one though, and it will maybe change your mind, and this is if you're talking over a long period of time, and not just in the past few years, and it was when the Packers signed Reggie White. Was there ever a bigger move as far as turning a team's defense and ultimately its franchise's fortunes around? I don't think so. They went from being a team that were developing, into a team that was dominating. Reggie made that team go, and it kind of irritates me how much credit Favre gets for that era, when you look at what he did every other year in his career. Reggie's prime/dominant years were the same for the Packers. He was amazing. He probably put together a couple of the best seasons by a DL ever in NFL history.


    Good point about Reggie White...but, you had to go back a few years for that one. Admittedly, the most dominant defensive lineman I'd ever seen in any uniform he wore.
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Re: Cap Space for 2013
Tue Jan 08, 2013 1:15 pm
  • What about Melton at the three-technique? Played for the Bears and is UFA this season. He has thirteen sacks in the last two years. He is only twenty-six years old as well.
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Re: Cap Space for 2013
Tue Jan 08, 2013 1:17 pm
  • Shock2k wrote:
    Hasselbeck wrote:
    Shock2k wrote:So I think it's cold to say, but do you trade Clemons for picks?


    Can't trade an injured player.


    Yes I know. I mean after he's recovered. A better question would have been, when do we part with Clemons?


    He will be too old to get any draft pick.
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Re: Cap Space for 2013
Tue Jan 08, 2013 1:31 pm
  • I saw it mentioned on Fieldgulls that Washington is due 3.3 million next year. Surely that number's going to need to go down if not disappear completely. I love Leon, but he can probably take a paycut on this team.
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Re: Cap Space for 2013
Tue Jan 08, 2013 4:07 pm
  • Sarlacc83 wrote:I saw it mentioned on Fieldgulls that Washington is due 3.3 million next year. Surely that number's going to need to go down if not disappear completely. I love Leon, but he can probably take a paycut on this team.


    Mmm Leon definitely is a potential pay-cut candidate. We need another explosive piece for the offense and a rookie who can fill that need and return the ball cheaply could be serious option. If Washington gave more on offense I might not think about.

    Leon's still plenty effective so perhaps it'd be fixing something that isn't broke.
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Re: Cap Space for 2013
Tue Jan 08, 2013 9:05 pm
  • dutchcoug wrote:Cliff Avril is a free agent...


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Re: Cap Space for 2013
Tue Jan 08, 2013 9:55 pm
  • About R. Wilson. They don't have to give him a new contract cus he's already on a contract for 3 years am i correct?
    Basically they can underpay him and he will be a starter for years to come. But that would mean no respect for Wilson.
    Can someone elaborate on this?
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Re: Cap Space for 2013
Tue Jan 08, 2013 10:04 pm
  • The reason our cap is in such good shape is because almost all of our impact players are still on their rookie contracts. 4 or 5 years from now I dont expect this to look so rosey.
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Re: Cap Space for 2013
Tue Jan 08, 2013 10:12 pm
  • Barthawk wrote:I say lock up your own.. Kam, Jason Jones and/or Browner in the offseason.. can't entertain extensions for Sherm or KJ until after 3 accrued seasons..


    This plus resign players with good contracts but with signing bonuse you move future cap hits into next year freeing up money for Sherman year after and RW two years later
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Re: Cap Space for 2013
Tue Jan 08, 2013 10:14 pm
  • Shock2k wrote:
    Hasselbeck wrote:
    Shock2k wrote:So I think it's cold to say, but do you trade Clemons for picks?


    Can't trade an injured player.


    Yes I know. I mean after he's recovered. A better question would have been, when do we part with Clemons?


    Who would trade for an over 30 year old player coming off of major knee injury?

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Re: Cap Space for 2013
Tue Jan 08, 2013 10:19 pm
  • Hawk-A-Loogie wrote:About R. Wilson. They don't have to give him a new contract cus he's already on a contract for 3 years am i correct?
    Basically they can underpay him and he will be a starter for years to come. But that would mean no respect for Wilson.
    Can someone elaborate on this?


    You are not ALLOWED by the new CBA to renegotiate for 3 years. RW has a four year contract
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Re: Cap Space for 2013
Tue Jan 08, 2013 11:15 pm
  • Jazzhawk wrote:Seahawks - ton of cap space....so, no need to jettison Flynn or Miller after all.


    The $13.2 million carry over number this year conceals the truth of a fairly tight cap situation. After this year there won't be cap carry over anymore. Basically, we are $5.4 million under the cap with an extra $13.2 million available just for this offseason. Keep in mind that you need about $4+ million available to sign your draft class.

    I do think this cap number makes Miller very safe. It seems like his high cap number this year was in anticipation of this situation.

    Flynn still makes a lot of sense to trade/release. While the incentive to lose his $7.25 million cap hit in 2013 is reduced, he's going to count for $8.25 million against the cap in 2014, and in that season we won't have the benefit of cap rollover. Seattle can hold on to Flynn for one more season if they want, but they will basically have to deal him by next year or else they'll have little chance of retaining their notable free agents.

    So basically, Seattle is in a good situation. They can listen to offers for Flynn now, and if none of them are good enough, they can carry him another season and try dealing him in early 2014.
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Re: Cap Space for 2013
Tue Jan 08, 2013 11:22 pm
  • aawolf wrote:As a side question related to this topic: has a team really ever truly "turned their team around" with the aquisition of a big free-agent defensive lineman?

    Reggie White? Charles Haley? Simeon Rice?

    UH, yeah. Top defensive lineman win you Championships.

    We should absolutely spend the money to replace Clemons, if the right guy is available.
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Re: Cap Space for 2013
Tue Jan 08, 2013 11:27 pm
  • kidhawk wrote:
    themunn wrote:
    SouthSoundHawk wrote:To go along with the Flynn cap arguement, I just look at it as if there's X amount of money to be spent at the QB position, and I don't care how it's used up as long as it helps the team win (IMO).


    Let's try and paint a mental picture...


    Flynn and Wilson are two parts of a whole, it doesn't mater how that cap is sliced. If they want to trade Flynn to have three parts of a whole filled at the QB position, that's all fine and dandy. However, if they bring someone in, they'll only be saving a few million until Wilson gets a contract extension. Then that missing fourth will then again be filled.


    I think I spent too much time in math class...does any of thismake sense to anyone else? haha. I'm having a hard time putting my thoughts into words...


    that works if you want to spread contracts uniformly
    say, as a hypothetical example - sherman could have his contract renewed this year (he can't), we could frontload a contract that pays him what he deserves. And that 8m or whatever it is that we'd have to pay to Flynn could all go to Sherman this year, with a contract with low(er). future cap implications, but pays the man what he deserves.

    So, consider, for example a 5 year 50m contract (which is in the range of what we will have to pay Sherman if he keeps up his performances)

    Instead of trying to spread it as 10m a year and taking a 10m cap hit every year, we could dump Flynn this year, augment Sherman's base salary in 2013 with the cap and thus reduce the cap hit in future years. It'd basically be the exact opposite of what teams whose window is "closing" do (huge signing bonus, long contract, cap hit spread over many years instead of up-front).

    Then, when it comes time to renew Wilson's contract, you've got a bit more room because you used that cap space wisely a few years previously


    You almost never see a player get a first year base number much over the minimum. That would be POOR cap management. You pay the man with a SIGNING BONUS. This gives him the huge money for this year, then in the following years, the annual salary grows with other bonuses set to augment that as well. Having the Signing bonus allows teams to let the cap hit over the length of the contract, so if the player gets a $15 million signing bonus and his contract is for 5 years, it would spread out at $3 million per year. This is a MUCH more likely scenario than giving a small signing bonus and upping his base salary to count against the cap in the early years. Also, to alleviate cap numbers later in the contract as the base salary increases, teams just re-sign them to new contracts that give them a fresh signing bonus that stretches out again. This is how teams often play the slight of hand tricks with the salary cap. Flynn's next 2 seasons won't keep us from signing any of our guys. ESPECIALLY with the knowledge that we have over $18 million in cap money. This is plenty to be able to sign our guys, bring in some good free agents and have money left over.


    You don't see it because everyone puts themselves in "cap hell". It makes PERFECT sense to load up year one salary if you have the room. Advantages is not hitting next year and if you cut the guy it doesn't hurt the cap. Sherman after next season and RW after that is going to cost some money.
    mikeak
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