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 Post subject: Heisman pundits breaking down of top teams NFL talent...
 Post Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2013 11:15 am 
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He takes a look at the NFL draft-ability of each of the 2 deep, and does a decent job breaking it down.

Oregon
http://heismanpundit.com/2013/08/07/two ... gon-ducks/

bama
http://heismanpundit.com/2013/07/23/two ... mson-tide/

LSU
http://heismanpundit.com/2013/08/05/two ... su-tigers/

A&M
http://heismanpundit.com/2013/07/29/two ... am-aggies/


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 Post subject: Re: Heisman pundits breaking down of top teams NFL talent...
 Post Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2013 2:33 pm 
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Good to see that Mariota is up to 212. Wasn't he under 200 at the start of last season?

Whoever wrote that list was very aggressive labeling Oregon players 1st round talents.

Mariota is a less physically gifted version of Colin Kaepernick, who went in the 2nd round. I guess it's not a huge stretch though, since if you cloned Kaepernick and put him in the next draft he probably wouldn't get out of the top 10 picks. If Mariota can get up to 220 pounds and maintain his speed, I think he's a legit 1st rounder. He's already up to 212 according to that, and he's still very young. So putting a 1st on Mariota is mildly premature IMO, but I would agree that he's heading in that direction right now. If things keep going the way they are going, he'll be a top 15 pick. My opinion on Mariota hasn't really changed over the last year, but the NFL did, and that's what matters. The new NFL is becoming a friendly landing spot for a Marcus Mariota skillset.

Lyerla very well might, but 1st round TEs are getting rarer these days and he's kind of the classic 2nd round profile IMO (GMs and scouts often define 2nd rounders as 1st round talents with question marks).

I think Thomas will go 2nd round, perhaps later. LaMichael James went late 2nd round because he was undersized, and he's quite a bit bigger than Thomas. The list of 5'6" RBs/WRs to go 1st round isn't a long one. I think Thomas will be a better version of Dexter McCluster in the NFL. He's obviously much faster than McCluster, but I think they are similar in their size and usage. Thomas will get most of his value on special teams. Tavon Austin went top 10, but he's 2 inches taller, has more short area explosiveness (I watched highlights of both back to back during the spring and was shocked by the difference), and had a strong resume as a WR. And even Austin might be a guy who creates most of his value with special teams in the NFL, we don't know yet.

The article has 1st round grades on both tackles, who weigh 294 and 292 pounds respectively. Last year Colorado's David Bahktiari had (IMO) some of the best tape in the draft, but fell to the 4th round because he played at 299. It's really rare for a sub-300 pound tackle to sniff the first round. The closest recent example I can think of was when Seattle considered taking 303 pound USC tackle Charles Brown at #14. They went a different direction and Brown nearly fell to the 3rd round. For either of Oregon's tackles to be taken seriously as 1st rounders, they'd need to add 15+ pounds first (while still testing well at the combine).


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 Post subject: Re: Heisman pundits breaking down of top teams NFL talent...
 Post Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2013 3:40 pm 
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Funny, Kearly. I saw the exact opposite between Austin and Thomas - I feel Austin is noticeably slower than Thomas (in fact, I didn't think much of Austin's explosiveness until I stopped comparing him to Thomas). Now, I think Austin made more explosive plays last year, but in terms of football (and track) speed, I'd give the edge to Thomas. Also not sure where the 5'6 came from, I've seen actual measurements at 5'8.5. I am not sure what will happen with Thomas' draft stock... he's a 2nd round talent (unless he takes huge leaps forward as a WR, which seems unlikely since he'll be getting more time at RB this year) a few years ago, but today's NFL is putting a premium on space players with speed, and that's DAT. He looks bigger this year, too, but often some of that is bulk weight that gets cut before the season begins.

I think, ultimately, Mariota will go very high. If he can put on some pre-combine weight (not unreasonable) and get to Tannehill's size (223), he's a superior prospect to Tannehill in basically every way with only a few more starts at QB (if he leaves after this year). I absolutely love how he doesn't get flustered by the rush. He's got the goods, the real key will be adding size and looking a little more comfortable out there (very mechanic setup and reads) - not sure if that is due to being a rFr or just who he is. I like the Kaepernick comparison.

I don't totally disagree about sub 300lb tackles, but both Carp and Matt Kalil played at roughly 300lbs their last seasons. Some guys are really able to pack on weight in the few months before the combine - my suspiscion is that this is because colleges don't always do a good job on the nutritional end, and the combine training is often geared to raise that number.

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 Post subject: Re: Heisman pundits breaking down of top teams NFL talent...
 Post Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2013 3:48 pm 
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Honestly Johnstone is a SO, and has already put on 40lbs since getting to UO, and Fisher has started from day 1 after being a TE in HS. But I agree both will need to be up around 305-315 in the NFL, but both are really good and still under 21. DAT was up to 184 during the spring, still smaller than LMJ who played at 190 as a SR, but I also see DAT as a Harvin like player in the NFL. I got a chance to talk with DeForrest and he said he was up to 300, but has cut it back down to 285 and he said Armstead was 295. Both of those guys are guys you might want to keep tabs on going forward Kearly, seeing how both are Pete's wet dream as DE at 6'7 and 6'8 respectfully. I would like to point out though, big Arik would be a top 10 pick at LT if he would just come to his senses and play oline (he was rated the #1 overall recruit in 2012 if he stayed on OL).

I would also point out to you, Mariota was only a Freshman last year, he did more last year than I saw Locker do in 4 years at UW and he went 11 overall.


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 Post subject: Re: Heisman pundits breaking down of top teams NFL talent...
 Post Posted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 6:23 pm 
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One more thing on Mariota, he's still only 19.


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 Post subject: Re: Heisman pundits breaking down of top teams NFL talent...
 Post Posted: Sat Aug 10, 2013 7:12 pm 
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Snohomie wrote:
Funny, Kearly. I saw the exact opposite between Austin and Thomas - I feel Austin is noticeably slower than Thomas (in fact, I didn't think much of Austin's explosiveness until I stopped comparing him to Thomas). Now, I think Austin made more explosive plays last year, but in terms of football (and track) speed, I'd give the edge to Thomas. Also not sure where the 5'6 came from, I've seen actual measurements at 5'8.5. I am not sure what will happen with Thomas' draft stock... he's a 2nd round talent (unless he takes huge leaps forward as a WR, which seems unlikely since he'll be getting more time at RB this year) a few years ago, but today's NFL is putting a premium on space players with speed, and that's DAT. He looks bigger this year, too, but often some of that is bulk weight that gets cut before the season begins.

I think, ultimately, Mariota will go very high. If he can put on some pre-combine weight (not unreasonable) and get to Tannehill's size (223), he's a superior prospect to Tannehill in basically every way with only a few more starts at QB (if he leaves after this year). I absolutely love how he doesn't get flustered by the rush. He's got the goods, the real key will be adding size and looking a little more comfortable out there (very mechanic setup and reads) - not sure if that is due to being a rFr or just who he is. I like the Kaepernick comparison.

I don't totally disagree about sub 300lb tackles, but both Carp and Matt Kalil played at roughly 300lbs their last seasons. Some guys are really able to pack on weight in the few months before the combine - my suspiscion is that this is because colleges don't always do a good job on the nutritional end, and the combine training is often geared to raise that number.

Matt K. has said that he has to force himself to eat more to get and keep his weight around 300 or more. It's not really a natural weight for him.

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 Post subject: Re: Heisman pundits breaking down of top teams NFL talent...
 Post Posted: Sun Aug 11, 2013 4:02 pm 
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Snohomie wrote:
Funny, Kearly. I saw the exact opposite between Austin and Thomas - I feel Austin is noticeably slower than Thomas (in fact, I didn't think much of Austin's explosiveness until I stopped comparing him to Thomas). Now, I think Austin made more explosive plays last year, but in terms of football (and track) speed, I'd give the edge to Thomas. Also not sure where the 5'6 came from, I've seen actual measurements at 5'8.5. I am not sure what will happen with Thomas' draft stock... he's a 2nd round talent (unless he takes huge leaps forward as a WR, which seems unlikely since he'll be getting more time at RB this year) a few years ago, but today's NFL is putting a premium on space players with speed, and that's DAT. He looks bigger this year, too, but often some of that is bulk weight that gets cut before the season begins.

I think, ultimately, Mariota will go very high. If he can put on some pre-combine weight (not unreasonable) and get to Tannehill's size (223), he's a superior prospect to Tannehill in basically every way with only a few more starts at QB (if he leaves after this year). I absolutely love how he doesn't get flustered by the rush. He's got the goods, the real key will be adding size and looking a little more comfortable out there (very mechanic setup and reads) - not sure if that is due to being a rFr or just who he is. I like the Kaepernick comparison.

I don't totally disagree about sub 300lb tackles, but both Carp and Matt Kalil played at roughly 300lbs their last seasons. Some guys are really able to pack on weight in the few months before the combine - my suspiscion is that this is because colleges don't always do a good job on the nutritional end, and the combine training is often geared to raise that number.


Well, I'm basing it off highlights, which is never perfect, but I remember watching an Austin highlight package then switching to a DAT highlight package and being surprised how much less explosive Thomas looked (I figured it would be a dead heat). You are correct on the height. Not sure where I saw that but I can't find it now. I probably saw 5'9" and my memory flipped it to 5'6".

Completely agreed about Mariota. I'm more turned off by his mechanical tendencies than most, but yeah, he's still very young and deserves the benefit of the doubt for now.

Kalil was close to 300, true. 306 officially but I do remember him playing at sub-300 (IIRC). Carp was always big though. Officially 321 and he always looked pretty beefy out there at Alabama.


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 Post subject: Re: Heisman pundits breaking down of top teams NFL talent...
 Post Posted: Sun Aug 11, 2013 4:12 pm 
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CPHawk wrote:
I got a chance to talk with DeForrest and he said he was up to 300, but has cut it back down to 285 and he said Armstead was 295. Both of those guys are guys you might want to keep tabs on going forward Kearly, seeing how both are Pete's wet dream as DE at 6'7 and 6'8 respectfully. I would like to point out though, big Arik would be a top 10 pick at LT if he would just come to his senses and play oline (he was rated the #1 overall recruit in 2012 if he stayed on OL).


Are they LEO type DEs or 5-tech types?


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 Post subject: Re: Heisman pundits breaking down of top teams NFL talent...
 Post Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2013 7:16 am 
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Snohomie wrote:

I think, ultimately, Mariota will go very high. If he can put on some pre-combine weight (not unreasonable) and get to Tannehill's size (223), he's a superior prospect to Tannehill in basically every way with only a few more starts at QB (if he leaves after this year). I absolutely love how he doesn't get flustered by the rush. He's got the goods, the real key will be adding size and looking a little more comfortable out there (very mechanic setup and reads) - not sure if that is due to being a rFr or just who he is. I like the Kaepernick comparison.



Maybe it's just faulty memory on my part, but it seems like when teams like Stanford were actually able to get pressure on Mariota, his play dropped dramatically. I understand he was a first year starter last year, and I'm excited to see what he's like this year, but I do remember him having a rather luxurious pocket last year.

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 Post subject: Re: Heisman pundits breaking down of top teams NFL talent...
 Post Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2013 10:16 am 
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Sarlacc83 wrote:
Snohomie wrote:

I think, ultimately, Mariota will go very high. If he can put on some pre-combine weight (not unreasonable) and get to Tannehill's size (223), he's a superior prospect to Tannehill in basically every way with only a few more starts at QB (if he leaves after this year). I absolutely love how he doesn't get flustered by the rush. He's got the goods, the real key will be adding size and looking a little more comfortable out there (very mechanic setup and reads) - not sure if that is due to being a rFr or just who he is. I like the Kaepernick comparison.



Maybe it's just faulty memory on my part, but it seems like when teams like Stanford were actually able to get pressure on Mariota, his play dropped dramatically. I understand he was a first year starter last year, and I'm excited to see what he's like this year, but I do remember him having a rather luxurious pocket last year.


Stanford bottled up Barner a lot more than they did Mariota in that game. MM finished 21-37 for 207 and 1 td and 12 carries for 90 yds. They did a great job of not letting Oregons WR break the long td, that have plagued SU in the past.


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 Post subject: Re: Heisman pundits breaking down of top teams NFL talent...
 Post Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2013 2:16 pm 
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Sarlacc83 wrote:
Snohomie wrote:

I think, ultimately, Mariota will go very high. If he can put on some pre-combine weight (not unreasonable) and get to Tannehill's size (223), he's a superior prospect to Tannehill in basically every way with only a few more starts at QB (if he leaves after this year). I absolutely love how he doesn't get flustered by the rush. He's got the goods, the real key will be adding size and looking a little more comfortable out there (very mechanic setup and reads) - not sure if that is due to being a rFr or just who he is. I like the Kaepernick comparison.



Maybe it's just faulty memory on my part, but it seems like when teams like Stanford were actually able to get pressure on Mariota, his play dropped dramatically. I understand he was a first year starter last year, and I'm excited to see what he's like this year, but I do remember him having a rather luxurious pocket last year.


He missed some passes that he'd normally hit (I had the same impression). But literally every QB suffers a drop with pressure. He didn't look like Gabbert or even Hass when pressured, which is what I like.

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 Post subject: Re: Heisman pundits breaking down of top teams NFL talent...
 Post Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2013 2:50 pm 
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kearly wrote:
CPHawk wrote:
I got a chance to talk with DeForrest and he said he was up to 300, but has cut it back down to 285 and he said Armstead was 295. Both of those guys are guys you might want to keep tabs on going forward Kearly, seeing how both are Pete's wet dream as DE at 6'7 and 6'8 respectfully. I would like to point out though, big Arik would be a top 10 pick at LT if he would just come to his senses and play oline (he was rated the #1 overall recruit in 2012 if he stayed on OL).


Are they LEO type DEs or 5-tech types?


Aliotti has them line up as a 5 tech DE and he also uses them to slide inside throughout the game, since UO likes to use so many D players. Aliotti shuffles in guys almost like a hockey line, so it's a bit unique, but necessary because the O scores so fast.


Edit: it's being reported that Buckner, 6'7 285, has been practicing the drop end spot so far. Basically the hybrid de/OLB spot Jordan had. Reports are he looks good and is getting it pretty good.

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