joeseahawks wrote:Again, I think people are trying to compare the kid to some type of machine. Every single player has some types of "Flaws". Remember when Cam Newton was in the draft? People kept saying "Well, he stole computers in college, he took money from people, he is this, he can't throw, he is not smart, he can't read defenses ... blah blah blah" and he was drafted #1, and he IS a franchise QB.
The upside for Johny Football is too high for any team like Jacksonville to pass on him. Some other teams will stink this season and they will most likely decide to take a look at Johnny Manziel, who will bring instant hype with him.
When I say "Natural QB" I mean things that a Brett Favre did. You don't teach that anywhere. Manziel can feel the pocket, he can make defenders miss almost effortlessly, he can create out of nothing , he can buy time for his receivers to get open, ... and I can go on and on and on. He can learn accuracy, he can add to arm strength. But what he already has available to him ... most QBs can't learn.
Maziel will go #1 or #2.
This kid dissected the best College Football Team without turnover ... and as a freshman ... come on.
And please, stop comparing him to Tebow ... This is not the same thing.

theENGLISHseahawk wrote:I've written a piece on this tonight, for anyone who still cares about this story: http://seahawksdraftblog.com/johnny-man ... -an-excuse

pehawk wrote:I was a huge partier and VIP room blow n women type in my 20's. I owned it and made no apologies for it in my corporate life. The other VP's and execs knew and joked about it. No one cared because I did good work and advanced to roles it takes most 20 years to reach.

pehawk wrote:I'm REALLY pulling for this kid. His instincts and tao understanding of "sandlot" ball is pretty damn fun to watch. In a society and culture full of phony faux-outrage over any individuality, I sure and hell hope he succeeds.

He's a 20yo Heisman Winner in Texas. I actually find it refreshing he's out drinking and banging chicks. Its what 20yo's should do.

There's an inherent hypocrisy here; "stay in school, enjoy college, but don't act like a college student, Johnny!". He's not a pro yet, he can do what he wants.

I was a huge partier and VIP room blow n women type in my 20's. I owned it and made no apologies for it in my corporate life. The other VP's and execs knew and joked about it. No one cared because I did good work and advanced to roles it takes most 20 years to reach. I'm not trying to attention whore, honestly, its just there's more than one way to accomplish things in life. Be yourself, but do your job. If its natural enough of a gig, you'll succeed.

theENGLISHseahawk wrote:To pehawk - he went on an all night bender, didn't show up the next day and was booted out. Allegedly.

JSeahawks wrote:

theENGLISHseahawk wrote:To pehawk - he went on an all night bender, didn't show up the next day and was booted out. Allegedly.

Congratulations on your new prince!

pehawk wrote:

JSeahawks wrote:

theENGLISHseahawk wrote:To pehawk - he went on an all night bender, didn't show up the next day and was booted out. Allegedly.

Congratulations on your new prince!

Sweetie, let’s not go that far.

It's just NOT your Papa's NFL anymore. Teams aren't running the WCO. Until its stopped, QB's are going to thrive on athleticism just as much as smarts. Now, maybe it's a fad like the run and shoot? We'll see.

And, in this new era of NFL QB's utilizing athleticism, Manziel maybe the most natural I've seen so far. While it may look frenetic, I'd bet to him everything's moving at a snails pace. He's genius...really...

SharkHawk wrote:I received a full scholarship to college and worked my ass off every day, every semester. Saying that these kids get nothing is the most moronic thing I may have ever read. What if there wasn't college football? What would Johnny Manziel receive? So.... he would be playing in the NFL minor leagues like other former high schoolers? OH WAIT, there is no such system. They receive a FREE education (Johnny F. decided not to attend classes on campus), and saying, "Well he's 20" is just stupid. Plenty of 20 year olds are intelligent and well behaved, especially when they are on a scholarship that asks them to follow through on something. THAT IS a contract.

Do you know how much tuition, books, and housing would cost at most of these schools? I once looked into transferring to the U of Miami and tuition was around $50,000 a year. Seriously. Do those kids "Do it for free?"

Johnny is receiving massive exposure, has an entire marketing department behind him at the school (and the school has an equipment contract and television deals) that also help to boost his celebrity. Then he has trademarked things and is selling his own merchandise. NONE of that would have been possible had he not gotten a scholarship and the massive freebies from Texas A&M. He also wouldn't have been able to hit the buffet circuit and get so fat this offseason if it weren't for his publicity machine that is behind him. He's getting PLENTY out of this bargain, and he was rich to start with. Playing the game where the kid should be excused from any sense of responsibility or expectation of behavior is nutty.

There is absolutely a sense of entitlement with athletes. It has grown more and more severe I think as times have changed and sports have replaced movies as where the "stars" reside. Just watch the ESPY's and all of the self-congratulations that goes on. It's as embarrassing as the Academy Awards or the Slammies (yeah, I said it).

pehawk wrote:There's people on this board who grade HS kids, that wasn't around 20 years ago for anyone.

NYCoug wrote:I just want to point out how sick that last damning statement from pe was. Gotta love it.

Not as sick as Manziel's game though. I get the concerns about him slowly morphing into Ryan Leaf 2.0, (comes fully equipped with locker room "Knock It Off" Meltdown Mode. Batteries not included) but the dude's a magician on the field. He's got that Russell Wilson 6th sense for the game that very few have ever had and very few will ever have. He's got it. What he doesn't have that the Russell Wilson's and ironically Eli and Peyton Manning's of the world have is that legendary work ethic. Doesn't mean he can't be good. Joe Namath, despite the overrated stats and penchant for partying, is still a Super Bowl champ. Jamarcus Russell, despite the miserable stats and avid love of partying and all things codeine, was an NFL starting Quarterback. Somewhere in the middle lies Johnny Manziel, with a touch of Russell Wilson and Doug Flutie sprinkled in for good measure.

It's gonna be fun to see which road he travels. It could either be really awesome or a cautionary tale for a younger generation.

pehawk wrote:I've heard the same stories, through the same channels, girls who dated Pac-12 QB's.

And Shark, no offense, but I find it pretty alarming you're hanging out with SEC types. Even if by default and via 3rd person.

You're a MWC/WAC guy, and specifically a Utah man (although it is VERY SEC to marry the only sister in Utah). You guys play and watch football for honor, not money or loose women. I want to hear what John Beck's like, not Eric Zier, Shark.

Kay?

XOXO

Jimmer Fredette

JSeahawks wrote:Hey, I love Manziel on the field. I'm just worried he has too much Leinart in him. I'd love to see him succeed though. I was just congratulating English on the royal birth today. I'm sure he's lighting up cigars and such.

sc85sis wrote:

JSeahawks wrote:Hey, I love Manziel on the field. I'm just worried he has too much Leinart in him. I'd love to see him succeed though. I was just congratulating English on the royal birth today. I'm sure he's lighting up cigars and such.

I never heard that Leinart showed up late or was (allegedly) hung over and couldn't play/practice. Matt was a partier, but it never affected his work as far as I'm aware.

MIAMI -- The NCAA is investigating whether Heisman Trophy winner Johnny Manziel was paid for signing hundreds of autographs on photos and sports memorabilia in January, "Outside the Lines" has learned. Two sources tell "Outside the Lines" that the Texas A&M quarterback agreed to sign memorabilia in exchange for a five-figure flat fee during his trip to Miami for the Discover BCS National Championship. Both sources said they witnessed the signing, though neither saw the actual exchange of money.



Three sources said Manziel signed photographs, footballs, mini football helmets and other items at the request of an autograph broker named Drew Tieman. Two sources, who are aware of the signing arrangement, told "Outside the Lines" that Tieman approached Manziel on Jan. 6, when he landed at Fort Lauderdale-Hollywood International Airport to attend the game between Alabama and Notre Dame the next day.



After that meeting, three sources said, Manziel, accompanied by his friend and personal assistant Nathan Fitch, visited Tieman's residence and signed hundreds of items in the main room of the apartment despite the fact that there were many people in the room. Before Manziel left South Florida, after taking in the title game, he signed hundreds of autographs more, one source said.



The source also told "Outside the Lines" that James Garland, the NCAA's assistant director of enforcement, in June contacted Tieman and at least one person associated with the signings. The source said Garland, who did not return calls from "Outside the Lines" for comment, told the person that he wanted to talk about Manziel signing items that had appeared for sale on eBay. An NCAA spokeswoman cited NCAA policy to "Outside the Lines" and declined to comment.



If the NCAA investigation finds that Manziel has violated NCAA Bylaw 12.5.2.1 -- accepting money for promoting or advertising the commercial sale of a product or service -- he could be ruled ineligible.

Attempts to reach Manziel were unsuccessful. Tieman did not return multiple calls and text messages. Fitch could not be reached.



In a statement, Jason Cook, Texas A&M's senior associate athletics director for external affairs, said "it is Texas A&M's longstanding practice not to respond to such questions concerning specific student-athletes."



Texas A&M declined further comment.



But A&M has responded to questions about Manziel and autographs before. On March 6, when ESPN.com contacted the school's compliance director, David Batson, to address a slew of Manziel-signed items that had flooded the memorabilia market, Batson provided a statement:



"Johnny has indicated on numerous occasions and, once again earlier today, that he has never (and to his knowledge, his parents, other relatives and friends have ever) been compensated through cash or other benefits or promises of deferred compensation for providing his autograph," Batson wrote.



While college athletes are frequently asked to sign autographs in public places, and those autographs often end up for sale on eBay, the amount of Manziel product that flooded the memorabilia market overall following the BCS title game was overwhelming, memorabilia dealers told "Outside the Lines."



While Manziel's father, Paul, had alleged that many of the items were fake, two of the leading autograph authentication companies, PSA/DNA and JSA, have authenticated many of the items. Officials with both companies have told ESPN in recent months that they stand by their guarantee that they believe the signatures, some with inscriptions like "Gig 'Em" and "Heisman '12" are genuine. Online verification databases show a single lot of 999 signed Manziel photos numbered sequentially. JSA authenticated 248 items and 376 items that came in in two batches that also are numbered sequentially. Industry insiders say this indicates the signings were done in large quantities intended for wholesale.



Calls and messages to Paul Manziel were not returned.



Even though Manziel is not allowed to generate income from his signature, the Manziel family has sought to protect Johnny's business affairs by starting a corporation, JMAN2 Enterprises, which in February filed for the trademark to use "Johnny Football" when he was ready to leave the college game.



The value of Manziel is clear in the memorabilia and appearance market: Independent merchandiser Aggieland Outfitters recently auctioned off six helmets signed by Manziel and Texas A&M's other Heisman Trophy winner, John David Crow, for $81,000. Texas A&M's booster organization, the 12th Man Foundation, sold a table for six, where Manziel and Crow will sit at the team's Kickoff Dinner later this month, for $20,000.



The school has committed to renovating Kyle Field, which will push seating capacity to 102,500 by the time it is completed in 2015. Texas A&M officials have said that donors, who make annual contributions of $80,000 to $100,000, have purchased all but two of the 144 suites in the stadium.



In the school's first year in the SEC last season, Manziel led the Aggies to an 11-2 season and a top-five finish for the first time since 1956. He and his teammates are scheduled to report Sunday afternoon for the 2013-14 season. He is scheduled to address the media Monday.



Manziel's offseason has drawn heavy media scrutiny. In the past few months, he has been spotted in the front row at NBA games, hanging out with rappers at bars, and has written various headline-starting tweets, including one in which he said he couldn't wait to leave College Station -- the home of Texas A&M. He also was sent home early from the Manning Passing Academy last month.



Paul Manziel recently told ESPN The Magazine that he doesn't like how the school hasn't protected the family from the NCAA and how he believes that school administrators put their motives above his son's well-being.



"It's starting to get under our skin," he said. "They're so selfish."



Manziel also acknowledged that he was concerned about his son's drinking and how he is dealing with celebrity.



"Yeah, it could all come unraveled," Johnny's father told The Magazine. "And when it does, it's gonna be bad. Real bad."

Justine Gubar is a producer in ESPN's enterprise unit.

Dawgs0 wrote:The dude is going to be a sophomore in college and people on here want to act like he's a 30-40 year old guy. Let the man have some fun while he can. LOL.

theENGLISHseahawk wrote:

Dawgs0 wrote:The dude is going to be a sophomore in college and people on here want to act like he's a 30-40 year old guy. Let the man have some fun while he can. LOL.

If I see this one more time, I might have to go on a Manziel-style drinking binge myself.

If Johnny Manziel wants the excuse of being a young college sophomore with a penchant for partying, that is fine. He can quit football and be a normal student. If he wants to be a first round pick, be paid millions of dollars and the face of a franchise, he's going to need to mature very, very quickly. It may be too late already.

theENGLISHseahawk wrote:

Dawgs0 wrote:The dude is going to be a sophomore in college and people on here want to act like he's a 30-40 year old guy. Let the man have some fun while he can. LOL.

If I see this one more time, I might have to go on a Manziel-style drinking binge myself.

If Johnny Manziel wants the excuse of being a young college sophomore with a penchant for partying, that is fine. He can quit football and be a normal student. If he wants to be a first round pick, be paid millions of dollars and the face of a franchise, he's going to need to mature very, very quickly. It may be too late already.

Dawgs0 wrote:

theENGLISHseahawk wrote:

Dawgs0 wrote:The dude is going to be a sophomore in college and people on here want to act like he's a 30-40 year old guy. Let the man have some fun while he can. LOL.

If I see this one more time, I might have to go on a Manziel-style drinking binge myself.

If Johnny Manziel wants the excuse of being a young college sophomore with a penchant for partying, that is fine. He can quit football and be a normal student. If he wants to be a first round pick, be paid millions of dollars and the face of a franchise, he's going to need to mature very, very quickly. It may be too late already.

So when Colin Kaepernick is going out and having fun and partying, it's stopped him from having success? LOL. Or is Kaepernick not a face of a franchise?

These guys are athletes not CEOs. What they do off the field, has very little bearing on their success. Partying is normal, even for NFL players.

You act like you can only be a great player if you have a Russell Wilson type attitude. That's not the case.

If Manziel continues to play great on the field, nobody will care what he does off the field. Nobody. "Off the field" has nothing to do with "on the field".

If Manziel continues to get better "on the field" and plays well, then he'll "be a first round pick, be paid millions of dollars and the face of a franchise".

CPHawk wrote:Yeah, because Kapp is showing up late to practice and other obligations. And he's under age. It's not even close, but continue to make excuses for JM.

Snohomie wrote:While partying isn't a big deal in general, there's more scrutiny for QBs. They're expected to be leaders on and off the field. With holding the football every play comes greater responsibility. Still, it's not a big deal if your QB likes to party as long as they prioritize football over all else.

Problem with Manziel, I don't get that vibe from him. I think he wants to live life and have a blast. I commend him for that. But it isn't what I want in my franchise QB - the fewer interests outside of football, the better. Now, that's just from the same articles that everyone else has read.

What's interesting about Manziel is that even though he doesn't have a first round body or arm, he showed incredible feel the game (in addition to excellent athletic ability) and that makes him worth a 1st round consideration - but does he have that feel for football because of natural ability, or because he is the hardest working guy at A&M and the (untrustworthy when it comes to shaping the narrative) media showing us the wrong side of him? If he isn't obsessed with football, it is hard to see him making it in a league where better athletes with better work ethics fail.

Dawgs0 wrote:

CPHawk wrote:Yeah, because Kapp is showing up late to practice and other obligations. And he's under age. It's not even close, but continue to make excuses for JM.

So Manziel is the first college student to drink and party under age? Damn. LOL. That's what many college kids (and football players) do, if you didn't know (especially as an Oregon fan). Haha.

Kaepernick parties and he's a face of the franchise qb. Manziel's partying has had no affect on his play, which is all that matters.

Haven't heard that Manziel showed up late to practice with Texas A&M, which is all that matters. The Manning Camp doesn't matter. It means nothing.

Continue to baselessly attack Manziel if it makes you feel better, but it doesn't change the fact that he's a Heisman winner and he's enjoying his life and having success. What he's done has had no affect on his success, which is all that matters.

He hasn't killed someone or committed a felony. He's a college student acting like a college student. Let the man live his life in peace. BTW, just to let you know: He doesn't care about what you think of him.

CPHawk wrote:
He can party and have fun, but he's being a jackass about it. It's funny the whole " he's just a student" bit. He's not "just" a student, but keep saying it it might change the fact that he's a lot more then that. He represents the Texas A&M, and is paid with a free education to do so. Do you think an equipment manger who did this crap, would still get to keep his job? No. But he is just a student as well, but one who gets his school paid for, for doing a job, same as little Johnny.

It's pretty funny how UW fans forget that thanks to a Qb shenanigans, they got placed on probation. But hey players "are just students", that's why the NCAA won't let them get jobs or sell stuff that's signed. I'm pretty sure the NCAA wouldn't care if joe bob in math 235 sold stuff he signed.