Let's Talk Mariners

Discuss any and all sports-related topics. From the College Sports to Baseball and everything in between. RATING: PG-13
Re: Let's Talk Mariners
Wed Jul 10, 2013 8:24 pm
  • jkitsune wrote:Hey Cali I too am a Dodger fan from way back.

    Jits,,,,well I just don't understand paying money to someone that has no interest in putting a quality product on the field. And the Ms haven't had quality products on the field since the 90s.

    As long as you keep giving them your money they think its ok. Only way to get real change is stop paying them for a piss poor product. If your automobile repair place gave you the same kind of crappy repair and service you'd change in a heartbeat. Why not do the same with your sports product?

    Granted I stuck with the Hawks when they were poor but for the most part I could see they were trying to right the ship. I don't see that with the Mariners, they just rotate faces and provide the same crummy product every year.

    And of course like all opinions here mine has as much value as yours.

    :roll:


    If you're able to 'change sports products,' then I envy you. I live in San Francisco - if I could love the Giants, that'd be great. A relationship with a sports team goes beyond a simple business transaction. If you think that doesn't make any sense, then why did you stick with the Seahawks?

    Your opinion has as much value as mine, but that's not an excuse for what has, at times, become a pointed habit of rubbing peoples' nose in the fact that their sports team has been a miserable failure for ten years. And when you state, as you have in the past, that 'we should be ashamed of ourselves,' that goes beyond just stating an opinion that I can accept as 'equally valid.' Then it gets personal. As you yourself state, you stuck with the Hawks through the Behring years. Did you honestly think Ken Behring was trying to 'right the ship?' Did you stop going? If you stopped going, did you stop caring? Did you stop watching on TV? The next time Seahawks are bad (and it will eventually happen), will you bail? I don't think for an instant you would - you're as much a diehard as I am (and have been for longer yet).

    I get your point, Radish. But when most of your contributions to Mariners threads are to call us pathetic, I stop listening. That's not discussion, that's just throwing insults. I'm not going to stop loving the Mariners, and showing up once every several pages to announce that I should be ashamed of myself or that my fandom is pathetic doesn't generate conversation. Of course you'll post what you want, and so will I, and we will both continue to love the Hawks and live and die with that team, and I will of course keep my replies appropriate for the forum we're in.[/quote]
    Good post. We will love the team that we call ours. But being called pathetic for it, is rather personal. Shall we continue a mariner thread in the shack Raddish?
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Re: Let's Talk Mariners
Thu Jul 11, 2013 12:38 am
  • I agree. We should stop giving the Mariners any money. Drop attendance down to near zero, even less than it is now, don't buy a single piece of merchandise, make it a horrible unprofitable business here in Seattle. I don't see how that could backfire.

    Frankly, the people who come by here every day to tell us that we shouldn't care about the Mariners should just find something better to do. I'd rather read through NinerLifer's entire post history than see someone go holier than thou on a message board dedicated to a team that has been awful far more than it has been good tell us that we all better run for the hills. God forbid the young prospects on the major league roster showing promise, the improved offense as of late, the wealth of other prospects in the waiting, etc. give anybody something to be hopeful for or even something to talk about. If you're not a Mariners fan at all, great, stay out. Honestly, Radish, your posts in this thread might be worse than just about anything I've seen on this board. Now post some waggy finger emoties at us and feel lonely.
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Re: Let's Talk Mariners
Thu Jul 11, 2013 9:36 am
  • If they finish .500, I will be exceedingly happy. That means that they played better than .500 ball - maybe even .550, or potential playoff ball - for the back half of the season, which would almost surely coincide with Franklin, Miller, etc. getting better/staying good.

    I would love to see them play some October baseball this year like everyone else would, but we need to take baby steps. If the Ms win even 80 games considering the start they got off to and Miller/Franklin/Seager/Smoak looks like a legitimately good infield that we can contend for a wild card with next year, I would be happy. I don't think that's pathetic.

    Also, Radish, I disagree that the management doesn't care about putting a quality product on the field. They spent 100M to lose 100 games. They have tried to put a good product on the field. The issue here is not money. Nintendo is not the McCourts putting everyone in their family on the payroll to suck the franchise dry. The issue is that the GM hires have not worked out for us since Pat Gillick and on through to Bavasi and Jack Z.
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Re: Let's Talk Mariners
Thu Jul 11, 2013 10:05 am
  • They have not spent 100 million to lose 100 games. For instance last year the the budget was 58 million. This year it will be less still. The last time it was a 100 million was 5 years ago.

    I would like to see a winning baseball team. It is good to see some of the younger players able to play at least the major league average.
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Re: Let's Talk Mariners
Thu Jul 11, 2013 10:12 am
  • Happypuppy wrote:They have not spent 100 million to lose 100 games. For instance last year the the budget was 58 million. This year it will be less still. The last time it was a 100 million was 5 years ago.

    I would like to see a winning baseball team. It is good to see some of the younger players able to play at least the major league average.


    Yes they did. They spent over 100M on payroll in 2008 and lost over 100 games.

    The payroll this year is 73M. http://espn.go.com/mlb/team/salaries/_/name/sea/seattle-mariners The Mariners have not spent 58M on their team in some time. They spent 78M last year, but rumors are that they are willing to raise the payroll again. Before that, they spent over 90M in 2009, 2010, and 2011. http://www.lookoutlanding.com/2011/8/29/2391673/seattle-mariners-2012-payroll-salary

    Remember that the Ms have TRIED to spend money. They tried to bring in Josh Hamilton. They tried to bring in Prince Fielder. Hitters didn't want to come here because the perception is that hitters die here (see Beltre, who was still a good hitter but was better in friendlier parks in LA and Arlington). That's why they moved in the fences.

    Your payroll numbers are incorrect, however. The Ms management may be many things, but cheap sure as heck isn't one of them.
    Last edited by Smelly McUgly on Thu Jul 11, 2013 10:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Let's Talk Mariners
Thu Jul 11, 2013 10:13 am
  • I love the Mariners and am disgusted with ownership. It's not impossible to separate the two.

    Since ownership is completely happy sitting back and owning the team whether they win or lose, boycotting or not going to a game won't make a difference. So that's futile. But mocking them, criticizing their absence and lack of accountability to the city is fair game. Shultz and Behring opened my eyes to the importance of ownership and that's why I never take it for granted with Allen. No amount of re-branding, promotionals, or replays of games in 1995 are going to change my opinion of them. Even if it's just that they don't know how to put people in place that can win, that's a problem. I'll always follow the team, despite lackluster ownership. Hopefully we run into some wins and can celebrate some new success. The fanbase deserves it.
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Re: Let's Talk Mariners
Thu Jul 11, 2013 10:19 am
  • RE: Offensive players not wanting to play here - that's why it's nice to see Kendrys Morales and Raul Ibanez have some success here. Maybe hitters will think that moving in the fences fixed everything and thus be more willing to sign here.

    We need FA outfielders that can play decent defense, draw walks, and hit line drives. If we could fill two of LF/CF/RF with guys like that and two of Ramirez/Hultzen/Paxton/Walker are ready next year, this team can make the playoffs. I don't think that's overly-hopeful.
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Re: Let's Talk Mariners
Thu Jul 11, 2013 10:20 am
  • 425HawkSpark wrote:
    jkitsune wrote:Hey Cali I too am a Dodger fan from way back.

    Jits,,,,well I just don't understand paying money to someone that has no interest in putting a quality product on the field. And the Ms haven't had quality products on the field since the 90s.

    As long as you keep giving them your money they think its ok. Only way to get real change is stop paying them for a piss poor product. If your automobile repair place gave you the same kind of crappy repair and service you'd change in a heartbeat. Why not do the same with your sports product?

    Granted I stuck with the Hawks when they were poor but for the most part I could see they were trying to right the ship. I don't see that with the Mariners, they just rotate faces and provide the same crummy product every year.

    And of course like all opinions here mine has as much value as yours.

    :roll:


    If you're able to 'change sports products,' then I envy you. I live in San Francisco - if I could love the Giants, that'd be great. A relationship with a sports team goes beyond a simple business transaction. If you think that doesn't make any sense, then why did you stick with the Seahawks?

    Your opinion has as much value as mine, but that's not an excuse for what has, at times, become a pointed habit of rubbing peoples' nose in the fact that their sports team has been a miserable failure for ten years. And when you state, as you have in the past, that 'we should be ashamed of ourselves,' that goes beyond just stating an opinion that I can accept as 'equally valid.' Then it gets personal. As you yourself state, you stuck with the Hawks through the Behring years. Did you honestly think Ken Behring was trying to 'right the ship?' Did you stop going? If you stopped going, did you stop caring? Did you stop watching on TV? The next time Seahawks are bad (and it will eventually happen), will you bail? I don't think for an instant you would - you're as much a diehard as I am (and have been for longer yet).

    I get your point, Radish. But when most of your contributions to Mariners threads are to call us pathetic, I stop listening. That's not discussion, that's just throwing insults. I'm not going to stop loving the Mariners, and showing up once every several pages to announce that I should be ashamed of myself or that my fandom is pathetic doesn't generate conversation. Of course you'll post what you want, and so will I, and we will both continue to love the Hawks and live and die with that team, and I will of course keep my replies appropriate for the forum we're in.

    Good post. We will love the team that we call ours. But being called pathetic for it, is rather personal. Shall we continue a mariner thread in the shack Raddish?[/quote]


    You poor babys get so bent out of shape if someone disagrees with you. lol You expect to say what you want but heaven forbid someone else says what they think if you don't agree.

    Your opinions, my opinions=same value.

    If you can keep saying you love the Ms I keep saying I don't like them. Strangely enough I don't like them because of the way they treat you the fan. You don't like me because I have a different take than you. Yes I think they suck and have for a long time.

    You need thicker skin if you want to be a Mariners fan.

    :roll:

    :roll:
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Re: Let's Talk Mariners
Thu Jul 11, 2013 11:03 am
  • If you genuinely don't understand the difference between disagreeing and insulting, and how this applies to the posts you have been making, then there is no honest discourse to be had on this topic.
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Re: Let's Talk Mariners
Thu Jul 11, 2013 11:05 am

Re: Let's Talk Mariners
Thu Jul 11, 2013 11:34 am
  • jkitsune wrote:If you genuinely don't understand the difference between disagreeing and insulting, and how this applies to the posts you have been making, then there is no honest discourse to be had on this topic.



    So my disagrements are insults? But yours aren't right?? lol

    I certainly do understand the difference between disagrements and insults. I disagree with your opinion which is my right. I'm insulted that the Mariners treat their fans so badly.

    And if you don't think they are treating you badly, I feel for you but accept you want to love your baseball. I too used to feel that way. When I was growing up there was always a game on, didn't matter who was playing you were glad to listen to anyone.

    But the players strikes and attitudes and off the field problems got to me and after the last strike they lost me forever. Not the players as much as the owners but still pretty close. So if you think my not liking the way they do things is insulting,,,so what? Everyone on this board has an opinion and if you want me to accept yours then you have to accept mine.

    I laugh at you kids that come in here and get all insulted if someone doesn't love the teams you love. This is a sports board for Christ's sake not your back yard.
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Re: Let's Talk Mariners
Thu Jul 11, 2013 2:33 pm
  • So this Steve Delabar guy that made the allstar game.. how did we let him go? Trade him for a bag of potato chips? just release him ?

    I don't follow the Ms much but i'd like to know what happend here hah.
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Re: Let's Talk Mariners
Thu Jul 11, 2013 2:36 pm
  • TheRealDTM wrote:So this Steve Delabar guy that made the allstar game.. how did we let him go? Trade him for a bag of potato chips? just release him ?

    I don't follow the Ms much but i'd like to know what happend here hah.


    All I could find was that he was involved in a trade that brought Eric Thames here, and was sent to the Jays.

    Yup
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Re: Let's Talk Mariners
Thu Jul 11, 2013 6:23 pm
  • Mariners are notorious for trading players that end up being productive for other teams. R.A. Dickey won a CY Young but couldn't do squat when he was here. Doug Fister was a good pitcher here but they traded him for bag of manure, Michael Pineda for a PED user in Triple AAA who can't hit or catch. Adam Jones and bunch of others for Bedard. Shin-Choo Soo, Asdrubal Cabrera to Cleveland for Franklin G. (never healthy).
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Re: Let's Talk Mariners
Thu Jul 11, 2013 7:28 pm
  • The Bedard one still pisses me off.
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Re: Let's Talk Mariners
Thu Jul 11, 2013 7:38 pm
  • hawkfan68 wrote:Mariners are notorious for trading players that end up being productive for other teams. R.A. Dickey won a CY Young but couldn't do squat when he was here. Doug Fister was a good pitcher here but they traded him for bag of manure, Michael Pineda for a PED user in Triple AAA who can't hit or catch. Adam Jones and bunch of others for Bedard. Shin-Choo Soo, Asdrubal Cabrera to Cleveland for Franklin G. (never healthy).


    Actually, Franklin was a pickup from the JJ Putz trade (which, on the whole, likely turned out for the best for the M's).

    Choo and Cabrera were traded for Eduardo Perez (I think his name was) and Ben Broussard by Bill Bavasi. They were atrocious trades at the time, but look positively prescient next to the Adam Jones debacle.
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Re: Let's Talk Mariners
Fri Jul 12, 2013 7:56 am
  • And yet another blown lead.. How do you contine to put up 6,7,8 runs a game and still lose.. ?
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Re: Let's Talk Mariners
Fri Jul 12, 2013 8:20 am
  • it does not help when our starters can't clear the 5th inning in 3 of the last 4 starts. And Boston is a pretty good team.
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Re: Let's Talk Mariners
Fri Jul 12, 2013 9:09 am
  • JOz56 wrote:
    TheRealDTM wrote:So this Steve Delabar guy that made the allstar game.. how did we let him go? Trade him for a bag of potato chips? just release him ?

    I don't follow the Ms much but i'd like to know what happend here hah.


    All I could find was that he was involved in a trade that brought Eric Thames here, and was sent to the Jays.

    Yup

    To be fair, at the time of the trade Delabar was atrocious. He gave up a bomb just about every time he made an appearance. I was actually surprised anyone would give up so much as a bag of balls for him. I was actually an advocate of flat out releasing him. He throws hard, and obviously learned how to keep the ball down and developed an offspeed pitch of some sort.
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Re: Let's Talk Mariners
Fri Jul 12, 2013 10:11 am
  • and its always easy to criticize these trades in hindsight, especially when you have a bone to pick to begin with.
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Re: Let's Talk Mariners
Fri Jul 12, 2013 10:31 am
  • I'm happy for Delabar. Voted for him in the final vote and yeah. Shame Puig didn't win...
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Re: Let's Talk Mariners
Fri Jul 12, 2013 11:21 am
  • So the problem is with our coaching/training staff then?
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Re: Let's Talk Mariners
Fri Jul 12, 2013 12:03 pm
  • it appears it has taken him 8 years in the minors and 2 sniffs in the show to finally get his stuff worked out and now its finally paying off for him. I say good work Mr. Delabar.
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Re: Let's Talk Mariners
Fri Jul 12, 2013 7:31 pm
  • On a lighter note (sorta):

    Any chance Ibanez gets tested for roids over the break? Holy hell, did you SEE that home run he hit tonight? It was caught by a fan dining at the Hit It Here restaurant!

    How does someone do that at age 41?
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Re: Let's Talk Mariners
Fri Jul 12, 2013 7:43 pm
  • Ibanez is out of control. No seriously, he's out of control. And why isn't he getting national attention?
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Re: Let's Talk Mariners
Fri Jul 12, 2013 8:24 pm
  • My god the offense has come ALIVE ! Safeco Joe is pitching lights out as well ! I gotta say I am enjoying watching this team again ! Can't wait to be at the park sunday !
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Re: Let's Talk Mariners
Fri Jul 12, 2013 9:06 pm
  • Wish I lived closer to Seattle.
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Re: Let's Talk Mariners
Fri Jul 12, 2013 9:26 pm
  • Man, its awesome what Raul is doing but its a shame it wont last long. He is either gonna get traded by the deadline or retire after this year (Maybe he'll play another year??) then we are gonna have another huge hole to fill in the lineup.

    but dang, Raul is amazing.
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Re: Let's Talk Mariners
Sat Jul 13, 2013 1:12 pm
  • GoldenIsThyTate wrote:Man, its awesome what Raul is doing but its a shame it wont last long. He is either gonna get traded by the deadline or retire after this year (Maybe he'll play another year??) then we are gonna have another huge hole to fill in the lineup.

    but dang, Raul is amazing.


    Raul's a nice story. I don't get to watch many games down here in SF, but it's nice to see a bat have some success, and it's nice to see the Mariners generate offense, particularly with the pitching they have coming up. If they could trade Raul and get something of value for him, I'd be OK with that, though. The odds that Raul keeps this up much longer aren't great at 41, he's an atrocious fielder, and really only has business being a DH at this point. The M's have a ton of DH types (Morales, Raul, Montero, Morse) and will have to unload some of them.
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Re: Let's Talk Mariners
Sat Jul 13, 2013 6:08 pm
  • Raul has been amazing! So nice to see some offense from the Ms........now if only the pitching could hold their own now.
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Re: Let's Talk Mariners
Sun Jul 14, 2013 2:46 pm
  • Taking walks, hitting with two strikes: Who is this Justin Smoak, and did he kidnap and stash the old Justin Smoak in his basement?
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Re: Let's Talk Mariners
Sun Jul 14, 2013 2:58 pm
  • Smelly McUgly wrote:Taking walks, hitting with two strikes: Who is this Justin Smoak, and did he kidnap and stash the old Justin Smoak in his basement?


    And can he leave him there? Just completely forget about him? I dunno about an all star, but I would be happy with solid production like this.
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Re: Let's Talk Mariners
Sun Jul 14, 2013 6:26 pm
  • About time the Ms got their first sweep of the year. Nice to see the offense coming around. Lets just hope they can keep it up for the long term.
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Re: Let's Talk Mariners
Sun Jul 14, 2013 7:54 pm
  • Blitzer88 wrote:About time the Ms got their first sweep of the year. Nice to see the offense coming around. Lets just hope they can keep it up for the long term.


    yeah, its nice to see Smoak hiting well too, i had given up on him.

    hopefully this isnt just our annual all-star break run.
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Re: Let's Talk Mariners
Tue Jul 16, 2013 12:19 pm
  • GoldenIsThyTate wrote:yeah, its nice to see Smoak hiting well too, i had given up on him.

    hopefully this isnt just our annual all-star break run.

    Ditto & ditto
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Re: Let's Talk Mariners
Tue Jul 16, 2013 12:55 pm
  • At this point I will take Major League average. The young guys seem to be getting their act together. Is it sustainable ? Who knows and I have no psychic ability and I am just enjoying it.
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Re: Let's Talk Mariners
Tue Jul 16, 2013 3:04 pm
  • last sunday was damn near perfect, I even picked up an old school trident hat :-)
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Re: Let's Talk Mariners
Tue Jul 16, 2013 3:11 pm
  • We almost have an order next year that is an MLB club:

    (Insert speedy CF)
    Nick Franklin 2B
    Kyle Seager 3B
    (Insert DH Power Hitter)
    (Insert LF/RF)
    Justin Smoak 1B
    (Insert LF/RF)
    Brad Miller SS
    Mike Zunino C

    SP:
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    Iwakuma
    Walker
    Paxton
    Hultzen
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Re: Let's Talk Mariners
Tue Jul 16, 2013 6:41 pm
  • I think that Kendrys Morales and Raul Ibanez producing in the middle of the lineup has a lot to do with the others playing well. They are seeing better pitches (ones they can hit) now. Keeping one, if not both, should be a priority.
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Re: Let's Talk Mariners
Tue Jul 16, 2013 6:59 pm

Re: Let's Talk Mariners
Wed Jul 17, 2013 8:21 am
  • Speaking of Morse, what's his status?

    Second half starting, should be interesting to see how these young bucks perform the rest of the way...
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    hawker84
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Re: Let's Talk Mariners
Wed Jul 17, 2013 11:24 am
  • I would be fine with a short-term deal for Morales. He's 31 and a power guy, so he's probably got two more years of solid production at best. Honestly, unless Seattle can trade Morales or Ibanez for a long-term starter in the OF (which is unlikely), I see no reason to trade either guy. I think it might be more important to get back to .500 by the end of the year and show some improvement than it is to get some life-long AA prospects or whatever.

    I would be fine with trading Morse, however. In fact, can we undo that trade and have Jaso back to platoon with Zunino? No? OK, in that case, Morse can still go elsewhere. I would prefer an AAA prospect in the outfield that can actually compete for a spot next Spring Training.

    Where is everyone on Iwakuma? I like the guy, though he seems to be coming back down to earth. I don't think he costs much, though, and I would not trade him unless someone was still into his first-half numbers and would trade big on the pretext of getting those numbers. Otherwise, he could be a fine 2/3 for next year depending on how Paxton, Hultzen, and Walker progress (though Hultzen being hurt again SUUUUUUCKS).
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    Smelly McUgly
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Re: Let's Talk Mariners
Wed Jul 17, 2013 6:58 pm
  • Smelly McUgly wrote:I would be fine with a short-term deal for Morales. He's 31 and a power guy, so he's probably got two more years of solid production at best. Honestly, unless Seattle can trade Morales or Ibanez for a long-term starter in the OF (which is unlikely), I see no reason to trade either guy. I think it might be more important to get back to .500 by the end of the year and show some improvement than it is to get some life-long AA prospects or whatever.

    I would be fine with trading Morse, however. In fact, can we undo that trade and have Jaso back to platoon with Zunino? No? OK, in that case, Morse can still go elsewhere. I would prefer an AAA prospect in the outfield that can actually compete for a spot next Spring Training.

    Where is everyone on Iwakuma? I like the guy, though he seems to be coming back down to earth. I don't think he costs much, though, and I would not trade him unless someone was still into his first-half numbers and would trade big on the pretext of getting those numbers. Otherwise, he could be a fine 2/3 for next year depending on how Paxton, Hultzen, and Walker progress (though Hultzen being hurt again SUUUUUUCKS).


    I think you may be underestimating Morales - there are plenty of examples of DH/1b players producing at the plate well into their 30s (I'm not going to comment on Raul's ridiculous 41-year-old season, as that defies most explanation), and he may well be a productive hitter for longer than 2 years. Raul on the other hand is way more likely to come down to earth next year or the year after, based solely on age. His success this year is arguably the more abnormal of the two.

    I think Iwakuma's a genuinely good pitcher who has sustained his success as a starter over a full season now and likely has several good years left. I don't think he can be expected to maintain his ridiculous BB/K rates and overall untouchability, but IMO the decision to keep him is fairly easy, particularly for a starting rotation that may be fielding 3 rookies next year who are more likely than not to struggle. That said, there are such things as offers too good to turn down, and he would obviously be a highly valued target.
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Re: Let's Talk Mariners
Wed Jul 17, 2013 7:31 pm
  • jkitsune: Fair points.

    Re: Morales, it could just be my Richie Sexon-meter going off, but I do believe that power-guys that get their numbers through swinging a lot (and striking out a lot) tend to fall off quicker as they lose bat speed into their mid- and then late-30s. You are right that there are some examples of DH/1B types that hit well into their mid- or even late-30s (hey, Edgar was a solid producer through his age 40 season, going .294/.406/.489). However, I think those tend to be exceptions.

    Furthermore, the power hitters that do make it are usually good at taking walks to make up for their loss of power - like Edgar. This is not one of Morales' strong suits, unfortunately (he's got a 25/66 BB/K ratio this year, so not good). If he can take more walks as he gets older, I would roll the dice on him through his age 34 year, but he hasn't shown an inclination to stop swinging so much. I mean, I think it's worth a risk because he won't cost that much, more than likely, but I don't think that I am underestimating power hitters that swing at everything THAT much. Maybe somewhat, but I feel like Morales does not have the skillset to compensate for his eventual loss of bat speed that is occurring even now.

    Re: Iwakuma, I think you are right on this one. We are running Saunders and Harang out there now because we don't have many options in the first place. Even if two of Ramirez/Hultzen/Paxton/Walker are ready to go next year, it makes no sense to get rid of a low-cost SP that is a reliable #3 at worst. Iwakuma isn't the guy that he was over the first half of the season minus his last two starts, but he's definitely a good player. Keep him unless our socks get knocked off in a trade offer.

    I felt this way about Fister a couple years ago, and I think Iwakuma deserves that sort of approach as well.
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Re: Let's Talk Mariners
Wed Jul 17, 2013 8:22 pm
  • Smelly McUgly wrote:jkitsune: Fair points.

    Re: Morales, it could just be my Richie Sexon-meter going off, but I do believe that power-guys that get their numbers through swinging a lot (and striking out a lot) tend to fall off quicker as they lose bat speed into their mid- and then late-30s. You are right that there are some examples of DH/1B types that hit well into their mid- or even late-30s (hey, Edgar was a solid producer through his age 40 season, going .294/.406/.489). However, I think those tend to be exceptions.

    Furthermore, the power hitters that do make it are usually good at taking walks to make up for their loss of power - like Edgar. This is not one of Morales' strong suits, unfortunately (he's got a 25/66 BB/K ratio this year, so not good). If he can take more walks as he gets older, I would roll the dice on him through his age 34 year, but he hasn't shown an inclination to stop swinging so much. I mean, I think it's worth a risk because he won't cost that much, more than likely, but I don't think that I am underestimating power hitters that swing at everything THAT much. Maybe somewhat, but I feel like Morales does not have the skillset to compensate for his eventual loss of bat speed that is occurring even now.

    Re: Iwakuma, I think you are right on this one. We are running Saunders and Harang out there now because we don't have many options in the first place. Even if two of Ramirez/Hultzen/Paxton/Walker are ready to go next year, it makes no sense to get rid of a low-cost SP that is a reliable #3 at worst. Iwakuma isn't the guy that he was over the first half of the season minus his last two starts, but he's definitely a good player. Keep him unless our socks get knocked off in a trade offer.

    I felt this way about Fister a couple years ago, and I think Iwakuma deserves that sort of approach as well.


    You make good points. I went back and reviewed Morales' numbers, and think that I agree with you. That said, it's hard to judge given his injury history and the gap between full seasons, what his real baseline ability is. Morales hits for a higher average but also takes fewer walks than Sexson did in his prime. It may actually not be a great idea to predict Morales will be productive for more than a couple seasons. That said, as I believe you originally stated as well, keeping him around isn't such a bad idea. So, touche.

    I'm not sure I've ever had a web forum interaction where both parties change their opinions an equal amount. Cheers.
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Re: Let's Talk Mariners
Fri Jul 19, 2013 11:26 am
  • On Ibanez, I can't reasonably believe any team would make a substantial prospect offer in trade for him. And if I'm Jack Z and Wedge, I'm giving a lot more weight to Raul's value than just his production. Looking at his leadership, teaching efforts, and the overall chemistry of the team that he's been a vital element to building; to carry that 2 or 3 more years with him wanting to be in Seattle until he hangs it up, I'm not looking to trade him given what you could expect to receive in return.

    Perez, Morse, Morales, Saunders, Ryan and Wilhelmsen....sure.

    I'd like to keep Morales, I think his best years are ahead of him, and we should get him at the right price. But if a good offer is made, by all means, ask for a little more and see what happens.
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    CrimsonWazzu
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Re: Let's Talk Mariners
Fri Jul 19, 2013 12:18 pm
  • I don't see Ibanez getting moved. He gets people filling seats. He is a league leader in HRs at his age which peaks interest.

    Morales if he is a able to get resigned at a decent price is a good idea. Right now we need major league average players. We can groom or pick upper superior major leaguers as time goes on. We have ( I hope) some players to build on now at least.
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Re: Let's Talk Mariners
Fri Jul 19, 2013 2:17 pm
  • Larry Stone ‏@StoneLarry 50m

    More from Raul on being traded to playoff contender: "I would say it’s July and why can’t we do that here? That would be my response."
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Re: Let's Talk Mariners
Fri Jul 19, 2013 4:58 pm
  • You aren't going to get any high level prospect for either guy, and you have no HR hitters coming up from the minors. Try and keep both guys
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Re: Let's Talk Mariners
Fri Jul 19, 2013 5:39 pm
  • So nice to see the bottom of the order score 4 runs there, so much different from the start of the year when we were batting shoppach, Ryan, and andino
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