Redskins Name Change

RolandDeschain · Jun 15, 2013

AbsolutNET":3nahr1nv said:
So you have no problem calling an Indian American a "redskin" to their face?

An Indian-American's heritage is India, but I presume you meant Native American. As a joke I would, yes. Hell, me and a bunch of friends call an Israeli friend of ours a Jew all the time for the hell of it. (He's atheist.) It's actually a friendly moniker in the context we use it. Would I use it as a racial epithet in anger at a Native American person? Almost certainly not, short of extraordinary circumstances where I have valid reason to goad the person excessively based on something they did.

Spounge84 · Jun 15, 2013

Roland, despite what you seem to think the word Jew it's not a racial epithet.

RolandDeschain · Jun 15, 2013

Spounge84":2lnbgn58 said:
Roland, despite what you seem to think the word Jew it's not a racial epithet.

Well, a significant percentage of racial epithets are actually ethnic epithets, and Judaism is a religion, not an ethnicity or a race; but people use it like one and it has probably entered the English language as such in dictionaries by now.

Sturm · Jun 17, 2013

This name wasn't ever a problem until some retards from the left made enough noise and got it picked up by the PC media.

Subzero717 · Jun 17, 2013

Sturm":1r3ygmj9 said:
This name wasn't ever a problem until some retards from the left made enough noise and got it picked up by the PC media.

This is the most ignorant post in the entire thread for multiple reasons.

hawker84 · Jun 17, 2013

CALIHAWK1":juvxtlvl said:
Sturm":juvxtlvl said:

This name wasn't ever a problem until some retards from the left made enough noise and got it picked up by the PC media.

Click to expand...

This is the most ignorant post in the entire thread for multiple reasons.

I second that emotion

VivaEfrenHerrera · Jun 18, 2013

pinksheets":1xgkv3ff said:
Here's my problem with the "history" argument- It's basically just rewarding being so stubborn, out of touch, and arrogant to hold strong to a racist nickname or a racist logo or whatever for far too long. Just because you've done something wrong a long time, doesn't mean the onus is on others to just accept it.

Here's my problem with the "Native American's are fine with it" argument - I don't believe racial slurs, racist jokes, hate speech, etc. are wrong just because they offend those they are directed at. If I had a kid and he pointed out an African-American and said "look dad a n-----," I wouldn't feel like it was okay so long as no African-Americans heard it. Crap like the Redskins or Chief Wahoo offend my sense of decency, and I'm not any part Native American. Same way I feel when I see old racist caricatures, literature, etc. There's a reason we try to bury so much of it in the past, because it hurts to look at now, and that's how a lot of people feel about these teams.

The change is inevitable, it WILL happen, people are not going to grow more accepting of ugly racist relics on grand display over time.

I'm QFTing this post because it's just about perfect and is worth being re-read. Well put.

fenderbender123 · Jun 18, 2013

Who cares. It's a name. Names and labels are meaningless to anyone who actually has a brain.

If the Redskins change their name, do you guys really think that Indians (and yes I call them Indians because that's what they prefer to be called) are going to let out a big sigh of relief and say "well...our lives just got better". I don't think so...it's just meaningless garbage for the media to churn out and make money.

Rambitious · Jun 18, 2013

CALIHAWK1":33tao9ij said:
Rambitious":33tao9ij said:

Stephen SeaHawking":33tao9ij said:

I don't know, but if you find yourself agreeing with BOTH Dan Snyder and Roger Goodell on a topic, you are probably wrong.

Being from Seattle, surrounded by a lot of Native Americans on a semi-daily basis, I would be embarrassed to have anything with "Redskins" printed on it. What do you think?

Click to expand...

I am part American Indian (which I prefer) but I did hear of a poll taken - 100% American Indians.

Over 90% thought the name "Redskins" was not offensive and they were just fine with it.
As am I.

Keep the Redskins name!!!!!!!!

Kind of funny that most white people don't like the name and most American Indians appear to be just fine with it.

Click to expand...

That's the problem with polls.

What? That they present too many facts you disagree with?

Subzero717 · Jun 18, 2013

Rambitious":20637kc0 said:
CALIHAWK1":20637kc0 said:

Rambitious":20637kc0 said:

Stephen SeaHawking said:

I don't know, but if you find yourself agreeing with BOTH Dan Snyder and Roger Goodell on a topic, you are probably wrong.

Being from Seattle, surrounded by a lot of Native Americans on a semi-daily basis, I would be embarrassed to have anything with "Redskins" printed on it. What do you think?

Click to expand...

I am part American Indian (which I prefer) but I did hear of a poll taken - 100% American Indians.

Over 90% thought the name "Redskins" was not offensive and they were just fine with it.
As am I.

Keep the Redskins name!!!!!!!!

Kind of funny that most white people don't like the name and most American Indians appear to be just fine with it.

Click to expand...

That's the problem with polls.

Click to expand...

What? That they present too many facts you disagree with?

No. I'm 34 and I've never been asked my opinion for any poll outside of .net. One thing I've learned so far is that figures lie and liars figure.

What facts could a poll possibly present anyway? 50% of people that chose to click this link agree with me?

hawksfansinceday1 · Jun 19, 2013

You guys can argue this til the cows come home but the bottom line is that it's not going to change as long as Snyder's bitch boy is the commish. Yo Rog, how's that "we're all about player safety" thing workin' out in conjunction with Danny boy's cow pasture of a field? RGIII and Chris Clemons think it's not going so well. Not being a hypocrite much are you?

Stephen SeaHawking · Jun 19, 2013

fenderbender123":10t5ubg7 said:
Who cares. It's a name. Names and labels are meaningless to anyone who actually has a brain.

If the Redskins change their name, do you guys really think that Indians (and yes I call them Indians because that's what they prefer to be called) are going to let out a big sigh of relief and say "well...our lives just got better". I don't think so...it's just meaningless garbage for the media to churn out and make money.

Names and labels tell us about our culture - what we value, what we don't, our attitudes, our assumptions, our relationships to one another. There's a reason why republicans call it "enhanced interrogation techniques" and why democrats call it "torture" -- or why republicans call rich people "job creators" and democrats refer to them as "the one percent." Names don't just DESCRIBE a thing, they SHAPE what that thing is.

There is a whole field of study called Semiotics that addresses this. To live in obliviousness to the rhetorical power of language is to make yourself susceptible to anyone who chooses to wield it to their advantage.

fenderbender123 · Jun 19, 2013

Stephen SeaHawking":1jan5sq1 said:
Names and labels tell us about our culture - what we value, what we don't, our attitudes, our assumptions, our relationships to one another. There's a reason why republicans call it "enhanced interrogation techniques" and why democrats call it "torture" -- or why republicans call rich people "job creators" and democrats refer to them as "the one percent." Names don't just DESCRIBE a thing, they SHAPE what that thing is.

There is a whole field of study called Semiotics that addresses this. To live in obliviousness to the rhetorical power of language is to make yourself susceptible to anyone who chooses to wield it to their advantage.

I agree. And the very people who are living in obliviousness to the rhetorical power of language are the exact type of people who think it matters what the name of a football team is. We should condition them into realizing how little value labels and names have so that they are no longer susceptible. We can start by not catering to their needs that are drawn off of these values, such as re-naming the Redskins.

12evanf · Jun 20, 2013

fenderbender123":jowh1pow said:
Stephen SeaHawking":jowh1pow said:

Names and labels tell us about our culture - what we value, what we don't, our attitudes, our assumptions, our relationships to one another. There's a reason why republicans call it "enhanced interrogation techniques" and why democrats call it "torture" -- or why republicans call rich people "job creators" and democrats refer to them as "the one percent." Names don't just DESCRIBE a thing, they SHAPE what that thing is.

There is a whole field of study called Semiotics that addresses this. To live in obliviousness to the rhetorical power of language is to make yourself susceptible to anyone who chooses to wield it to their advantage.

Click to expand...

I agree. And the very people who are living in obliviousness to the rhetorical power of language are the exact type of people who think it matters what the name of a football team is. We should condition them into realizing how little value labels and names have so that they are no longer susceptible. We can start by not catering to their needs that are drawn off of these values, such as re-naming the Redskins.

Swing and a miss!

cockeyhawk · Jun 20, 2013

I think America and its crack down on racial slurs I a joke and over the top. I agree with fenderbender nfl teams should be able to be called what ever they want. Whats wrong with the Alabama porch monkey's. The Arizona mud backs sounds good to me as well. Why it ok in your mind to use a racial slur towards one group and not others. Is because YOU have been programed to think as such. Whats next in your opinion the Detriot women ra#er's (not going to say the word). A large group of people find the racial slur offensive and its just as bad as the ones listed above.

RolandDeschain · Jun 21, 2013

I nearly died laughing reading Cockeyhawk's post. Christ.

Young2Rice · Jun 21, 2013

RolandDeschain":15ltxf2r said:
AbsolutNET":15ltxf2r said:

So you have no problem calling an Indian American a "redskin" to their face?

Click to expand...

An Indian-American's heritage is India, but I presume you meant Native American. As a joke I would, yes. Hell, me and a bunch of friends call an Israeli friend of ours a Jew all the time for the hell of it. (He's atheist.) It's actually a friendly moniker in the context we use it. Would I use it as a racial epithet in anger at a Native American person? Almost certainly not, short of extraordinary circumstances where I have valid reason to goad the person excessively based on something they did.

Its not a good idea to refer to people as jew, redskin, , even amongst friends. I had friends like that who would use derogatory terms at me. I acted like it was a friendly moniker as well but it was not. I laughed it off just to fit in but I couldn't help but think they thought less of me or they did not accept me because of it.

Obviously, i know you from the 49ers forum and u are NOT prejudice and you are NOT racist, but i'm saying using terms like that may make people feel uncomfortable. Redskins and other names like that are derogatory. Imagine if the German soccer team in 2100 was the German K*kes. Those people in 2100 may not even know what that means, but doesn't make it ok.

fenderbender123 · Jun 21, 2013

cockeyhawk":2ajw11yy said:
I think America and its crack down on racial slurs I a joke and over the top. I agree with fenderbender nfl teams should be able to be called what ever they want. Whats wrong with the Alabama porch monkey's. The Arizona mud backs sounds good to me as well. Why it ok in your mind to use a racial slur towards one group and not others. Is because YOU have been programed to think as such. Whats next in your opinion the Detriot women ra#er's (not going to say the word). A large group of people find the racial slur offensive and its just as bad as the ones listed above.

Names and labels are not racist or offensive by nature. They are not the enemy. If we ended actual racism, nobody would care what the names of our teams are. That's my only point. Pick up a philosophy book sometime and find out for yourself.

It's like schools trying to take a stance against gangs by banning Raiders apparel and boys wearing pink shirts. They're just clothes...clothes don't jump out and stab you in the face.

If you wanna spend your time on window dressing instead of actually cracking down on the cause and damage of racism, be my guest.

RolandDeschain · Jun 21, 2013

Young2Rice":1uhhtuuo said:
Its not a good idea to refer to people as jew, redskin, even amongst friends. I had friends like that who would use derogatory terms at me. I acted like it was a friendly moniker as well but it was not. I laughed it off just to fit in but I couldn't help but think they thought less of me or they did not accept me because of it.

I know what you mean, and I'm sure there are plenty of instances of that; but not with the 3 friends I'm referring to. They regularly make racist jokes about themselves to get laughs, too. My Korean friend has threatened to eat my Israeli friend's dog more times than I can count, lol. He has even asked for a salt shaker randomly out of the blue, and when my Israeli friend asked why, he said "So I can start preparing Niko." (Niko being the name of his dog.)

We don't say this stuff aloud where other people can hear it, though; so if you think we'll say stuff like that loudly in a grocery store or while waiting in line at a movie theater, ah, no.

AbsolutNET · Jun 21, 2013

RolandDeschain":21m6l42t said:
Young2Rice":21m6l42t said:

Its not a good idea to refer to people as jew, redskin, even amongst friends. I had friends like that who would use derogatory terms at me. I acted like it was a friendly moniker as well but it was not. I laughed it off just to fit in but I couldn't help but think they thought less of me or they did not accept me because of it.

Click to expand...

We don't say this stuff aloud where other people can hear it, though; so if you think we'll say stuff like that loudly in a grocery store or while waiting in line at a movie theater, ah, no.

But it's ok to name a professional team with one of those words? Got it.

Redskins Name Change

Well-known member

Active member

Well-known member

New member

Active member

Well-known member

Active member

Well-known member

New member

Active member

Active member

New member

Well-known member

New member

New member

Well-known member

New member

Well-known member

Well-known member

New member

Similar threads