Probably my favorite non team sports athlete of all time. Had to be scary as hell getting into the ring with him. Incredibly intimidating, especially in his early years. At the 23 second mark where the guy is bobbing back n forth and Mike's just following him with his eyes with that look on his face... I would have quit right there.

I just love the man. He was a horrible human at times, but I cant help but love him.

"It was the best punch I ever landed...she bounced off the wall like a pinball" ~ Tyson speaking about a fight with Robin Givens. It's so sick, but I love that quote.

Joe Frazier in his prime would have ate him up, Ali would have worked him and then KO'ed him, Ken Norton and him would have been a blood bath, both all about the knock out nothing about defense, Larry Holmes would have also let him punch himself out for three rounds and then moved in for the kill ala Buster Douglas.

If you tried to trade blows with Tyson he would eat you up, if you boxed him which there were very few good ones when he was champ you would stand a good chance to win. The hype of his fights would get into opposing boxers head about being able to take a Tyson punch, most would get baited into trying and make a slug fest out of it which Tyson won.

A good fight would have been George Foreman vs Tyson both in their prime, more like a rock um sock um robot contest, George being so tall and long probably wins.

Tysons downfall was Cus dying. We don't really know how his career or life may have ended up if it hadn't of happened when it did. To compare him is unfair. I don't know who would have done what but that is/was the baddest dude I've seen fight in my lifetime.

CALIHAWK1 wrote:Tysons downfall was Cus dying. We don't really know how his career or life may have ended up if it hadn't of happened when it did. To compare him is unfair. I don't know who would have done what but that is/was the baddest dude I've seen fight in my lifetime.

He was a professional boxer, you compare them, I seen a lot of the greats of boxing being around when the sport took off mainstream.

"I'll f*** you 'til you love me!"

Favorite Tyson quote. That man was a beast. He makes Mayweather look like a joke.

"I could feel his muscle tissues collapse under my force. It's ludicrous these mortals even attempt to enter my realm."

"I'm on the zoloft to keep me from killing y'all!" - Tyson to some scared reporter

Avery sad and troubled person. INCREDIBLE fighter. I can't even evaluate his boxing "skills".

chris98251 wrote:

CALIHAWK1 wrote:Tysons downfall was Cus dying. We don't really know how his career or life may have ended up if it hadn't of happened when it did. To compare him is unfair. I don't know who would have done what but that is/was the baddest dude I've seen fight in my lifetime.

He was a professional boxer, you compare them, I seen a lot of the greats of boxing being around when the sport took off mainstream.

His career derailed early for one. Second comparing any athlete from different eras is silly to me. Athletes are bigger faster stronger. Not to mention how many rounds of rope a dope exactly would Ali have lasted with Tyson?

Obviously you never watched him with Foreman, Ali would have had the reach on Tyson also, he would have jabbed and frusterated him to making a mistake. He would have taunted him as well, Tyson would have lost his composure.

In some arenas athletes have got bigger and stronger, does not mean better, Pro Football and Pro Basketball being examples, Pro football you have position specialists now, not long ago most were four down players. NBA has a few one on one players, not team basketball, most players lacking even the ability to make foul shots above 70 percent or play defense. Baseball has also turned into a specialized sport, Used to be common for a guy to pitch complete games, now you have short relief, long releif, closer, and a clean up guy after the closer throws more then 15 pitches. You have guys real good at specifics of the game, not better at the game in my opinion.

Boxing has lost it's audience as well with newer fighting sports, people want the blood and kick the shit out of you that it brings in every fight, those kind of beating are not the norm in Boxing these days.

The corruption in boxing has hurt it more than anything. You just can't trust the sport right now and that's sad. If they cleaned it up people would watch it again.

chris98251 wrote:Obviously you never watched him with Foreman, Ali would have had the reach on Tyson also, he would have jabbed and frusterated him to making a mistake. He would have taunted him as well, Tyson would have lost his composure.

In some arenas athletes have got bigger and stronger, does not mean better, Pro Football and Pro Basketball being examples, Pro football you have position specialists now, not long ago most were four down players. NBA has a few one on one players, not team basketball, most players lacking even the ability to make foul shots above 70 percent or play defense. Baseball has also turned into a specialized sport, Used to be common for a guy to pitch complete games, now you have short relief, long releif, closer, and a clean up guy after the closer throws more then 15 pitches. You have guys real good at specifics of the game, not better at the game in my opinion.

Boxing has lost it's audience as well with newer fighting sports, people want the blood and kick the shit out of you that it brings in every fight, those kind of beating are not the norm in Boxing these days.

Every single fighter Tyson went against had a reach advantage. Sometimes approaching a foot of wingspan. Tyson may not have had any art to his fights, but playing at art would have gotten him killed. His only way to win was get inside a big man's reach and devastate. Ali would present big problems for Tyson, simply because Ali danced around plodders, though Tyson was a lot faster early on than most remember. But Tyson would give Ali problems, out at arms length Tyson simply did not present much target when his hands were up.

We tend to immortalize Ali because he fought in the golden age of heavies, and Tyson is doubted because he had no worthy opponents. Style wise, I think a fight between the two at their peak would have been ugly. Power vs stamina would have had fans yelling at Ali for 5 rounds to stop running away.

chris98251 wrote:
Boxing has lost it's audience as well with newer fighting sports, people want the blood and kick the shit out of you that it brings in every fight, those kind of beating are not the norm in Boxing these days.

Boxing has lost its audience mostly here in the states. My opinion is because we suck at it. Its the same argument I have for soccer. If we were any good we'd still tune in.

Our great American heavyweight is playing TE or Power Foward. Parents of todays and yesterday children see Ali, Holyfield, Meldrick Taylor and put them in basketball, football, golf. The same will happen to football eventually if tragedies like Seau continue but it will take much longer because football is so deeply rooted in this country and its not competitive outside the states.

As far as MMA goes that's a whole different argument. I think it will pass eventually. It will maintain a cult following but not much beyond that. Everything is almost all PPV. Too many fighters. Watching the same guys fight over and over, which is also a big turn off for Arum fighters in boxing.

The Thrilla in Manilla! Just watch that fight in its entirety and you will see there is no way Tyson would have survived in the ring with those two. Don't get me wrong I grew up in my teens watching Tyson knock people out in 30 seconds or less and it was great, but after watching the three Ali-Frazier fight's in their entirety, I don't think he would of survived past 6 rounds against either of them. JMHO

Scottemojo wrote:

chris98251 wrote:Obviously you never watched him with Foreman, Ali would have had the reach on Tyson also, he would have jabbed and frusterated him to making a mistake. He would have taunted him as well, Tyson would have lost his composure.

In some arenas athletes have got bigger and stronger, does not mean better, Pro Football and Pro Basketball being examples, Pro football you have position specialists now, not long ago most were four down players. NBA has a few one on one players, not team basketball, most players lacking even the ability to make foul shots above 70 percent or play defense. Baseball has also turned into a specialized sport, Used to be common for a guy to pitch complete games, now you have short relief, long releif, closer, and a clean up guy after the closer throws more then 15 pitches. You have guys real good at specifics of the game, not better at the game in my opinion.

Boxing has lost it's audience as well with newer fighting sports, people want the blood and kick the shit out of you that it brings in every fight, those kind of beating are not the norm in Boxing these days.

Every single fighter Tyson went against had a reach advantage. Sometimes approaching a foot of wingspan. Tyson may not have had any art to his fights, but playing at art would have gotten him killed. His only way to win was get inside a big man's reach and devastate. Ali would present big problems for Tyson, simply because Ali danced around plodders, though Tyson was a lot faster early on than most remember. But Tyson would give Ali problems, out at arms length Tyson simply did not present much target when his hands were up.

We tend to immortalize Ali because he fought in the golden age of heavies, and Tyson is doubted because he had no worthy opponents. Style wise, I think a fight between the two at their peak would have been ugly. Power vs stamina would have had fans yelling at Ali for 5 rounds to stop running away.

Too true. Tyson's ability to flat out hit a guy cannot be understated. I don't think there has been another boxer who could deliver a left hook with such intensity.

He had good defense in the old days with Cus and Rooney, his head was always moving, ducking diving providing a small target that was always moving, he worked the body alot more, was always in great shape, I read somewhere he could hit you 5 times in less then 2 seconds (dont remember where I read that) and always had a fundamentally sound game plan, but Mike got got rich, complacent and figured he could just get by with his power alone, once Buster beat him he lost that aura of invincibility in his own head and in the minds of his opponents, they just were not quite as scared of him. The punch the bully in the mouth theory.

Someone said between 86-88 he could have beaten any heavyweight in history. I buy that.

Anyone watch the documentary Tyson?

No but I just got my ESPN the mag wit h him on the cover.

I suggest everyone here watch Tyson. To give you an idea how good it is, here's something I found on the IMDB page.

To gage what effect "Tyson" would have on audiences, James Toback asked the opinions of the film's opposite demographic: older white women who were disinterested in boxing. He asked that they come to his editing suite and watch the film. If they left after 5 minutes, Toback would give them $100 USD. If they stayed after 5 minutes, they would have to stay for the whole picture - and give Toback extensive feedback on the film. According to Toback, not one woman left after 5 minutes, and many were in tears by the film's finale.

Tyson was one of the most scientific and smartest fighters when he had Cus backing him, he didn't just use his power, he baited you into believing you could slug with him

If Cus was with him his whole career, we're looking at a maximum 2 loss fighter (No Buster Douglas')

Shaz wrote:Tyson was one of the most scientific and smartest fighters when he had Cus backing him, he didn't just use his power, he baited you into believing you could slug with him

If Cus was with him his whole career, we're looking at a maximum 2 loss fighter (No Buster Douglas')

Who do you think he would have lost to?

Watching the video's slow motion frames it looks like Tyson knew if he hit his opponent in the head squarely it was a gaurenteed knock out, so he was changing the arc of his swing of his left hook to land with downward force to the chin and upper chest.
The oppenent still gets the full impact of the punch, but gets knocked down instead of knocked out.
Almost as if he was having some mercy on the fools thinking they were getting out of there alive.

Hawken-Dazs wrote:

Shaz wrote:Tyson was one of the most scientific and smartest fighters when he had Cus backing him, he didn't just use his power, he baited you into believing you could slug with him

If Cus was with him his whole career, we're looking at a maximum 2 loss fighter (No Buster Douglas')

Who do you think he would have lost to?

Lewis

Hawken-Dazs wrote:Anyone watch the documentary Tyson?

Watched it last night. Its a good film. It definatly turns him into a sympathetic charachter. But with the whole thing from his perspective its hard to know how much of the story is just his spin on things. Still love Iron Mike though.

Hawken-Dazs wrote:

Shaz wrote:Tyson was one of the most scientific and smartest fighters when he had Cus backing him, he didn't just use his power, he baited you into believing you could slug with him

If Cus was with him his whole career, we're looking at a maximum 2 loss fighter (No Buster Douglas')

Who do you think he would have lost to?

Lewis and possibly Holyfield

tyson was my boy but glad he lost to douglas cause i won a SHITLOAD that nite...

Foreman in Zaire was a lot like Tyson - As long as Ali could work with loose ropes, ain't no one could hang with him if he got took the distance. Watch When We Were Kings.

Sadly, I was born in 1989 so I missed out on Iron Mike when he was in his prime. That video is beastly! I have never really watched many videos of Tyson from the 80's and now I have a new found respect/fear for the man. The guy was fast, extremely powerful and actually defended pretty well as far as keeping his hands up and dodging shots. He looks like he hits like a truck! He is such an intriguing and polarizing character... I gotta watch Tyson sometime soon from the sounds of it.

Tyson's technique to aim for the back of the head caused his fist to drive virtually through the opponent's head. Guys were crapping themselves out there. A left hook near-miss in front of their face and the opponent is knocked out by the aireal shock wave.

As I've gone back over Tyson's career, I've actually thought less of him as a boxer. Nobody in boxing history has dispensed of stiffs faster. Even during his comebacks, he would knock everybody out quickly on his way back towards the top contenders. Then he would get in the ring with somebody who wasn't completely outclassed by his power, and he got outboxed, frustrated, and beaten, usually badly. He just had no answer for somebody he couldn't knockout fairly quickly. Nobody was more electrifying against nobodies, but aside of possibly Spinks, who was well thought of at the time, he lost whenever he fought another decent fighter.

Tical21 wrote:As I've gone back over Tyson's career, I've actually thought less of him as a boxer. Nobody in boxing history has dispensed of stiffs faster. Even during his comebacks, he would knock everybody out quickly on his way back towards the top contenders. Then he would get in the ring with somebody who wasn't completely outclassed by his power, and he got outboxed, frustrated, and beaten, usually badly. He just had no answer for somebody he couldn't knockout fairly quickly. Nobody was more electrifying against nobodies, but aside of possibly Spinks, who was well thought of at the time, he lost whenever he fought another decent fighter.

As I think back those fights were all after Cus died and for the most part his prison stint. I know many that claim the Douglas fight was fixed too. I was too young to.make that call but the claim is he never threw a combo.

CALIHAWK1 wrote:

Tical21 wrote:As I've gone back over Tyson's career, I've actually thought less of him as a boxer. Nobody in boxing history has dispensed of stiffs faster. Even during his comebacks, he would knock everybody out quickly on his way back towards the top contenders. Then he would get in the ring with somebody who wasn't completely outclassed by his power, and he got outboxed, frustrated, and beaten, usually badly. He just had no answer for somebody he couldn't knockout fairly quickly. Nobody was more electrifying against nobodies, but aside of possibly Spinks, who was well thought of at the time, he lost whenever he fought another decent fighter.

As I think back those fights were all after Cus died and for the most part his prison stint. I know many that claim the Douglas fight was fixed too. I was too young to.make that call but the claim is he never threw a combo.

Couple things:

1. Tyson DEFINITELY had his record padded by taking on a bunch of stiffs. He was SUPER young, remember. Despite all of the chumps he ended up destroying, he still ended up being the youngest Heavyweight Champ of all time - so just keep in mind that it was deliberate - working his way up. He also destroyed the "good" fighters in his way eventually - Spinks, Tucker etc. One thing that they may have mentioned in that doc (or I saw somewhere else) was that Tyson had real trouble controlling his breathing in the ring. This is a really big deal - nothing will gas you faster - Anyway - Tyson and his corner obviously knew this, so he had to go into most fights looking for the early knockout.

2. I doubt the Douglas fight was fixed. Douglas was the prototype (and later Lewis, obviously) for the exact type of fighter that gave Mike trouble - basically a "real" Heavyweight. Tall, big, and skilled. I'm not disparaging Mike at all, he's still one of my favorites but his size really limited him against bigger fighters - and he happened to come along at a time when the Heavyweight division was lacking.

Tical21 wrote:As I've gone back over Tyson's career, I've actually thought less of him as a boxer. Nobody in boxing history has dispensed of stiffs faster. Even during his comebacks, he would knock everybody out quickly on his way back towards the top contenders. Then he would get in the ring with somebody who wasn't completely outclassed by his power, and he got outboxed, frustrated, and beaten, usually badly. He just had no answer for somebody he couldn't knockout fairly quickly. Nobody was more electrifying against nobodies, but aside of possibly Spinks, who was well thought of at the time, he lost whenever he fought another decent fighter.

Bingo...we have a winner.
I like Tyson...and loved watching him fight. BUT get him in a ring with a talented top rated contender and its a different story.

Tical21 wrote:As I've gone back over Tyson's career, I've actually thought less of him as a boxer. Nobody in boxing history has dispensed of stiffs faster. Even during his comebacks, he would knock everybody out quickly on his way back towards the top contenders. Then he would get in the ring with somebody who wasn't completely outclassed by his power, and he got outboxed, frustrated, and beaten, usually badly. He just had no answer for somebody he couldn't knockout fairly quickly. Nobody was more electrifying against nobodies, but aside of possibly Spinks, who was well thought of at the time, he lost whenever he fought another decent fighter.

When he lost Cus, he lost his smarts and guide. He was the perfect fighter for Cus, a machine of absolute destruction who follows orders to the T. When the brain broke down, it killed the machine completely

Holyfield subtly headbutted Tyson early on and split his head open during the ear-bite fight. The refs weren't seeing it. Tyson could've won--that was the turning point.

Sorry guys, I can't like a rapist and wife-beater. The guy is a thug.

Mitch "Blood" Green took Tyson to a decision in Tyson's prime, and Frank Bruno had Tyson out on his feet, but was too stupid to follow up with a headshot in the middle rounds. Tyson was a great fighter early, but he was also fighting a lot of tomato cans. The guys who weren't just trading shots and actually knew how to move like Green never saw a chance in the ring with him after the Green and Bruno fights, Tyson would only have guys like "The Truth" put in front of him. Paper champions who had never done anything.

Tyson would have gotten beaten in his prime by Chris Byrd because the kid was 100% defense and a lefty, and Ike Ibeabuchi and David Tua likely would have killed him if they both hadn't completely self-destructed.

The real amazing talent was Don King, who was able to so rig the system that the best guy Tyson ever had to fight was a washed up Trevor Berbick and a brain damaged and genuinely completely disinterested and decimated Michael Spinks (who had been punched nearly to death by Holmes in their fights but won on his ability to move and jab). Tyson did that and was labeled as the GREATEST.

Then things went south and he HAD to face guys that were actually top 10 fighters like Buster Douglas, Evander Holyfield, Lennox Lewis, and even losers like Franz Botha.

Tyson is one of the most interesting, quotable, crazy-lifed, open, honest athletes that ever lived. But he was given the keys to the kingdom at a young age and really blew it by just fighting everybody. His opponents were VERY carefully picked early. After he fought Blood then everything changed, and the type of opponent he fought was even more narrow (usually tall lanky guys like The Truth) that he could get inside and decimate. Near the end there was really nobody left for him to fight. Anybody that was bigger than him physically like Douglas and could push him around was not even considered. Holyfield was his only option because they thought his heart problems would end it early, and Tyson would dominate him because Holyfield was a natural cruiserweight who fought at Light Heavy (much like Roy Jones eventually did). That Douglas fight exposed Tyson and laid out the blueprint for guys of any size to beat him. Move, counter, jab, move. Frustration sets in because he can't get inside. Holyfield is the next guy to fight him who isn't scared for a second and does the same thing that the much larger Buster Douglas did and dominated as well. Career over. It's a shame. Tyson could have gone 50-0 and retired as the greatest. But hey... at least once he loosened himself from the Don King death grip he actually took fights people wanted him to take, and didn't make excuses when he got his ass kicked (like Don King did for a year after Douglas beat the holy hell out of him).

Hawken-Dazs wrote:I suggest everyone here watch Tyson. To give you an idea how good it is, here's something I found on the IMDB page.

To gage what effect "Tyson" would have on audiences, James Toback asked the opinions of the film's opposite demographic: older white women who were disinterested in boxing. He asked that they come to his editing suite and watch the film. If they left after 5 minutes, Toback would give them $100 USD. If they stayed after 5 minutes, they would have to stay for the whole picture - and give Toback extensive feedback on the film. According to Toback, not one woman left after 5 minutes, and many were in tears by the film's finale.

I watched it a couple of times. Hard not come away from that without more respect for the man.

sc85sis wrote:Sorry guys, I can't like a rapist and wife-beater. The guy is a thug.

I know he served time but I don't think he raped that chick at all

Then you're as naive as those who think Tyson would have even beat Riddick Bowe. Tyson is a violent sex offender.