KJ making plays at OTA and getting snaps at Weak side

SAM linebacker is the one linebacker spot in a 4-3 that frequently lines up near the LOS a bit like an extra DE. What makes Wright a really nice SAM is that against the run, he's so strong against blocks that it's like having another 5-tech up there. In that one respect, he's an elite player. But in coverage he was frequently exposed last year for lacking speed. He runs a 4.75 on a team where every other LB runs in the 4.4s or low 4.5s. There were quite a few times last year where offenses exposed him on deep coverages. Think about how Kam Chancellor is a mild liability on deep coverage, and he runs a 4.62 for comparison.

That's why I think this move to WILL seems just a little insane to me. WILL is the most coverage intensive of the LB spots, and attacks the LOS the least. Basically, it plays away from Wright's strength and further exposes his biggest weakness. It'd almost be like making Jesus Montero a bench catcher for his defense (Montero has some potential as a hitter, but is atrocious as a catcher). I don't think this Wright-WILL experiment will be a disaster necessarily, but if you didn't like Leroy Hill at WILL last year you won't like Wright at WILL this year. It also seems wholly unnecessary given that we already have several LBs that are great fits to play WILL and there won't be a lot of WILL snaps to begin with.

In Pete I trust, but even very bright people have blind spots. I'm wondering if this might be one of those times.

He is a great player

I remember the days of being eaten alive by screens and flat routes. KJ is a big part of the reason the defense is competent in that area now. His instincts seem pretty strong.

Moving KJ to Will is a mistake. He's better utilized at SAM. In a pinch, I'd prefer going 'hybrid base' with 2 LBs, & 5 DBs. KJ and Wagner, The Legion of Boom, and getting Antione Winfield on the field as often as possible. A) He has major game, B) Pro Bowl experience, C) moves like a slot corner, and D) tackles like a weak side backer. Thoughts?

kigenzun":2yq34yyq said:

Moving KJ to Will is a mistake. He's better utilized at SAM. In a pinch, I'd prefer going 'hybrid base' with 2 LBs, & 5 DBs. KJ and Wagner, The Legion of Boom, and getting Antione Winfield on the field as often as possible. A) He has major game, B) Pro Bowl experience, C) moves like a slot corner, and D) tackles like a weak side backer. Thoughts?

Click to expand...

It's not a mistake unless we don't have somebody to fill the SOLB spot. I'm anxious to see how well our depth can do. Plenty of candidates.

kearly":2l20c12l said:

SAM linebacker is the one linebacker spot in a 4-3 that frequently lines up near the LOS a bit like an extra DE. What makes Wright a really nice SAM is that against the run, he's so strong against blocks that it's like having another 5-tech up there. In that one respect, he's an elite player. But in coverage he was frequently exposed last year for lacking speed. He runs a 4.75 on a team where every other LB runs in the 4.4s or low 4.5s. There were quite a few times last year where offenses exposed him on deep coverages. Think about how Kam Chancellor is a mild liability on deep coverage, and he runs a 4.62 for comparison.

That's why I think this move to WILL seems just a little insane to me. WILL is the most coverage intensive of the LB spots, and attacks the LOS the least. Basically, it plays away from Wright's strength and further exposes his biggest weakness. It'd almost be like making Jesus Montero a bench catcher for his defense (Montero has some potential as a hitter, but is atrocious as a catcher). I don't think this Wright-WILL experiment will be a disaster necessarily, but if you didn't like Leroy Hill at WILL last year you won't like Wright at WILL this year. It also seems wholly unnecessary given that we already have several LBs that are great fits to play WILL and there won't be a lot of WILL snaps to begin with.

In Pete I trust, but even very bright people have blind spots. I'm wondering if this might be one of those times.

Click to expand...

I think you could be looking at it the wrong way, and there could be more to this that meets the casual eye of inspection and inquiry. However, before I explain myself, I will indulge the audience into something that become sort of my trademark:

Compare & Contrast time.

K.J. Wright:
Height: 6033
Weight: 246
40 Yrd Dash: 4.71
20 Yrd Dash: 2.65
10 Yrd Dash: 1.65
225 Lb. Bench Reps: 20
Vertical Jump: 34
Broad Jump: 10'00"
20 Yrd Shuttle: 4.35
3-Cone Drill: 7.21

Lance Briggs: ILB in college, in the NFL, he became one of the best WLB of this past decade.
Height: 6005
Weight: 242
40 Yrd Dash: 4.75
20 Yrd Dash: 2.76
10 Yrd Dash: 1.66
225 Lb. Bench Reps: 25
Vertical Jump: 33
Broad Jump: 09'05

LaVonte David: Even as a rookie, was one of the better WLB in the NFL in 2012 and a 2nd helping of Derrick Brooks for the Buccaneers.
Height: 6005
Weight: 233
40 Yrd Dash: 4.57
20 Yrd Dash: 2.59
10 Yrd Dash: 1.56
225 Lb. Bench Reps: 19
Vertical Jump: 36 1/2
Broad Jump: 09'11"
20 Yrd Shuttle: 4.22
3-Cone Drill: 7.28

LeRoy Hill: ILB in college, played SLB after Jaime Sharper injured out, then moved WLB when the Seahawks acquired… Julian Peterson, who from what I could find ran a 4.68 forty at 230 pounds.
Height: 6010
Weight: 229
40 Yrd Dash: 4.65
20 Yrd Dash: 2.72
10 Yrd Dash: 1.65
225 Lb. Bench Reps: 25
Vertical Jump: 34
Broad Jump: 09'08"
20 Yrd Shuttle: 4.11
3-Cone Drill: 7.23

Will Witherspoon: Another comparable LBer to Wright in the sense that Witherspoon has played MLB, SLB, and WLB plus doesn’t possess great timed speed.
Height: 6014
Weight: 231
40 Yrd Dash: 4.68
20 Yrd Dash: 2.76
10 Yrd Dash: 1.73
225 Lb. Bench Reps: 25
Vertical Jump: 38
Broad Jump: 10'02"
20 Yrd Shuttle: 4.21
3-Cone Drill: 7.09

Alec Ogletree: 3-4 ILB in college, 1st 4-3 LBer in the NFL Draft 2013. Working at SAM but perhaps a better fit at WILL because of his tentative nature at engaging blockers and shedding blocks to make a tackle.
Height: 6024
Weight: 242
40 Yrd Dash: 4.68
20 Yrd Dash: 2.66
10 Yrd Dash: 1.56
225 Lb. Bench Reps: 20
Vertical Jump: 33 1/2
Broad Jump: 10'02"
20 Yrd Shuttle: 4.39
3-Cone Drill: 7.16

So while K.J. Wright is not the fastest overall at 246 pounds… he however compares favorably well to Lance Briggs.

Wright’s 10/20 yards splits are pretty exceptional as well considering his overall size especially compared to someone like Lavonte David (-.10, -.06), LeRoy Hill (even, +.07), and Will Witherspoon (+.08, +.11) as Wright outweighed them by 13 to 17 pounds.
Also, it could be his SIZE + LENGTH that is so intriguing in coverage his 6’3, 246 frame plus 35 inch arms makes him a perfect candidate to cover TEs. Seahawks probably know his coverage ability is not quite as good as the rest of his skills but that’s exactly why they would move him over to WILL, to give him the opportunity and experience to further develop his overall game to make him a complete LBer.

Also I think the move could have a little something to help protecting K.J. Wright from injuries specifically concussion. Wright isn’t the strongest LBer, even though he excels and has the size to consistently take on blockers.

Carroll on WILL (via Fieldgulls):

"The Will linebacker is aligned against the offensive guard to his side of the field. He is basically a protected player in this alignment and should make a lot of tackles. He has to control his weak-side A gap and play relative to the Mike linebacker and the Free Safety. In coverage, he often plays the short middle.
"The Will linebacker can be a smaller player. He is generally protected in the defensive schemes and will not see as many blocks. All you want him to do most plays is flow and chase the football. We want our fastest linebacker at this position."

In K.J. Wright’s case his football intelligence and his length could make up for his lack of overall speed (like Sherman, and to a lesser extent Browner) as long as he’s comfortable and knows what he’s doing when he’s in coverage but again you need reps and experience to become automatic. In Carroll’s scheme he will be a “protected” player meaning he’ll have the easiest opportunities to seek and destroy almost freely in Run Defense ala Lance Briggs and the result of not taking on blocks or having to be the first person to stuff or blow up a gap on the strong side will keep him healthier, which in turn keeps him on the field.

I think the Seahawks will keep 2 LBers on the field 90% of the time, those LBers need to stay healthy, consistently effective as they are well-rounded. As we know, the LBers are going to be Bobby Wagner and K.J. Wright.

So while everyone thought WLB was going to be unimportant position in consideration to the scheme and sub-packages, possibly SLB is the one that becomes a little more diluted in the sense that you’ll see the Seahawks use their LEOS when all of them are healthy and able to play (you’ll see guys like Irvin, Avril, and Powell take snaps at SAM) and while guys like Morgan, Smith, Bradford, and Toomer are smaller than Wright… they are much stronger with the first three averaging 27.66 reps to Wright’s 20. All of them possess the top end speed to factor more as pass-rushers with 4.5 speed (Bradford, Toomer) and 4.4 speed (Smith, Morgan) compared to Wright’s 4.7 speed.

If anything, it could also be that Quinn just prefers his LBers well-rounded and able to play all positions and we’ll see Wright back at SLB when the season starts.

However, I just don't believe or agree that Wright can’t handle the position of playing WILL. I think he can become a Lance Brigg’s type of player in Run Defense and can be one of the better LBers in coverage specifically vs TEs once he irons out the wrinkles and nuances of being a coverage LBer. I’m not just being overly optimistic, Wright is a very smart and talented player, and while he was more than a solid SAM LBer and excelled over a bum like Aaron Curry, I think he could eventually become a great fit at WLB being in a “protected” role as well as using his incredible length to become a consistent 100+ tackler and a solid play-maker when in coverage.

I think on crossers KJ Wright's arm length really helps him in coverage, assuming his assignment doesn't simply run away from him. It's the deep routes that really worry me, and as a SAM he'd be asked to cover less.

Measurables aside, Lance Briggs is a much better linebacker than Wright. Briggs is not only very good, but well rounded. Wright is more of a specialist type with big strengths and glaring weaknesses.

I think all this boils down to is that Seattle wants Wright to be more versatile so they can get him on the field more. Avril is going to be our full time LEO at the start, and Irvin is out the first 4 games. So at least initially, I expect Wright to remain at SAM unless Morgan/Bradford impress a ton.

Later on, when Clemons and Irvin return and Avril/Irvin are taking many of the snaps at SAM, that's when I think they will struggle to find reps for Wright and giving him chances at WILL is a way of getting him some field time, to keep him from getting rusty. If he ends up our full time WILL though, I'd be surprised if that looked like a good move in retrospect.

I just see this as a way to get the 11 best guys on the field. Giving Irvin and Avril some reps at SAM seems to be in the team's plan, and while I have no problem with Smith and Morgan, Wright is the better LB.

Also as just an added thought, later on we may see a more traditional 3-4 alignment with Wright lining up like a stand-up DE on the weak side and Avril or Irvin being the rusher on the other. The Hawks love versatility and forcing offenses to deal with different looks, and so if teams have to prepare for the 3-4 then mission accomplished. The Irvin suspension will probably slow us down implementing some of this, but Wright is as good as anyone in the league learning and adjusting to new positions and so you lose nothing giving him an early start. The way Quinn was talking about Wright you can tell he wants to put a lot on his plate.

++++++++++++++++

kearly":28ggrbpp said:

I think on crossers KJ Wright's arm length really helps him in coverage, assuming his assignment doesn't simply run away from him. It's the deep routes that really worry me, and as a SAM he'd be asked to cover less.

Measurables aside, Lance Briggs is a much better linebacker than Wright. Briggs is not only very good, but well rounded. Wright is more of a specialist type with big strengths and glaring weaknesses.

I think all this boils down to is that Seattle wants Wright to be more versatile so they can get him on the field more. Avril is going to be our full time LEO at the start, and Irvin is out the first 4 games. So at least initially, I expect Wright to remain at SAM unless Morgan/Bradford impress a ton.

Later on, when Clemons and Irvin return and Avril/Irvin are taking many of the snaps at SAM, that's when I think they will struggle to find reps for Wright and giving him chances at WILL is a way of getting him some field time, to keep him from getting rusty. If he ends up our full time WILL though, I'd be surprised if that looked like a good move in retrospect.

Click to expand...

I never said that Wright was going to be the next Briggs, I was only showing examples comparing Wright's athletic ability to Briggs and saying that I think Wright can be a Brigg's quality run defender from the weak-side in which he can be, Wright is smart and athletic enough to navigate through traffic and has the skillset and ability to fight off any block to make a play. Plus, for a LBer you don't need deep speed on every play, Wright's 10/20 yard splits very excellent considering his size.

Consider this Malcolm Smith at 226 pounds (20 pounds less than Wright) had 10/20 yard splits of 1.61s and 2.63. Remember, Wright marked at 1.65 and 2.65. Even Morgan who timed better than Smith also weighed 226 pounds compared to Wright's 246 clocked 1.54s and 2.59s splits. More comparable to Wright is Bradford at 242, had a 1.59s and 2.55s split with a 40 time of 4.53s. Fast, yes but at Bradford's Pro Day while still managing a 40 time of 4.54s had 10/20 yard splits of 1.70 and 2.72. However, Bradford is 5'11 and with a typical TE towering from 6'4 to 6'7 these days, he would get a Jennings style treatment especially considering his Vert Jump was a mere 29 inches. Wagner at 241...had 10/20 yard spits of 1.57s and 2.64s.

So again while Wright doesn't have awesome deep speed even though 4.71s isn't something to sneeze at, especially in comparison to the LBers in the 2013 draft, even the first LBer taken, Jarvis Jones, 6-3, 245, had 10/20/40 yard splits of 1.66s/ 2.79s/4.88s and Wright beats him every other measure. Top end 40 speed isn't everything especially at the LBer position whether you're playing WLB and SLB. However, I would say a LBer's short area quickness matters a great deal more than their deep speed and Wright's 10/20 yard splits are damn good.

Furthermore, on Briggs, he was the least athletic of all the WLBs I listed above however the best LBer out of them all. Briggs didn't become one of the best WLBers on his own merit, he had a strong defensive minded coaches, a HoF MLB that developed a great partnership, quality D-Lines and quality defensive backfields throughout his entire career. Really the only thing ever that Chicago Bears Defense lacked in Briggs time there was a household name at SAM.

So what does Wright have, strong defensive mind coaches? Check, too premature to say HoF MLB but Wagner showed he's going to be a pretty damn good one after his first season and one K.J. Wright feels that he's developing a good partnership with, so... check... quality D-Line? check... quality Defensive Backfield? check, not just quality but one of the best.

If I'm not mistaken I think you're the one who pretty much said that you thought K.J. Wright was going to be a non-factor to our other LBers because they had tremendous speed. Or perhaps it English. Someone said or insinuated that Wright could lose his job to Allen Bradford.

I just don't get the K.J. disrespect, he pretty much missed the equivalent of 2 games (Vikings, Jets) and had 98 tackles, and a lot of his early season struggles correlated with Wagner being a rookie and them not having chemistry. And his later season struggles, was because our D-Line was worn out or hurt. Even though I say struggle, he was pretty damn good.

I'm pretty sure everyone thought Leroy Hill wasn't going to be any good after his 2006, 2007 season in coverage, he was always a force of nature against the run, but he had to learn to be a coverage defender. I think Wright will be able to do the same and be much better at it, why, because he has the size and length to matchup against big TEs.

You think just because Smith runs a 4.4 he can cover TEs that have 5-7 inches and 30-50 pounds on him. What makes Smith somewhat a liability is that he has short arms and can't wrap up on half his tackles. Why not Mike Morgan? He's 6-3, has 4.45 speed, and long arms. What makes Wright better? Most likely because the Seahawks actually value Wright's overall instincts and intelligence knowing he has one of the lowest SPARQ ratings out of all our LBers that measure a player's athletic ability.

So while you proclaim that Wright moving to the Weak Side is most likely so the Seahawks can give his opportunities at SAM to other players and to keep Wright on the field so he doesn't become "rusty" and likening Wright's ability to a 30 year old Leroy Hill who lost much of his speed to injuries, age, and added weight to bulk up. Plus, the fact that you're already betting against Wright solely on because you feel a young player with only 2 quality seasons in the NFL can't transition to WLB solely because of his top end speed. Yes, Wright's speed is average, however his intelligence and instincts are the best out of the all Seahawk LBers. His size and overall length rank among if not the best in the entire NFL in a 4-3 defense. If the Seahawks feel like Wright has what it takes to play WLB over any of the players that can out-speed and out-jump Wright, than I would take that as a great compliment to Wright's overall ability as a Linebacker and what he brings to the team in his overall package as a football player. Whether you see it or not, Wright has the ability to be more than a mere scrimmage LBer and in his two years with the team he seems the type of player that will always strive to become better and more consistent within the position he is asked to play as well as compete to be the best he can be.

Before people say KJ is too slow to be a WLB, you do realize Hill was our WLB last year right?

KJ is too slow to play...... Wait what Westcoast???? Cmon!!!!!!

Love me some KJ!

I think Wright moving to weakside is a training camp thing. We already know Wright can play SAM or MIKE, and we've used him in that capacity. Maybe we're just working Wright out at WILL to expand on the versatility and looks we can give opponents with our linebacking corp. Working Wright at WILL allows us to work the entire linebacking corp. out at different positions and allows us to produce a lot of different looks when the regular season rolls around because the linebackers will be able to move around a lot more pre-snap without blowing assignments if they've been coached up to play both sides of the defense in varying schemes.

I think Avril will be in the mix at a spot..he even has Leroy's old number I beleive.(if healthy)

I love the ridiculousness of some of the comments on here. Again, we have people who are prematurely judging a player. the guy is entering his 3rd year for heaven's sakes and you've got "experts" like Kearly making such profound statements like "he's no Lance Briggs," Really? Thanks for pointing that out genius. Give the guy a chance instead of making such sweeping statements as "he can't play Will," or he's terrible in coverage.

The same kind of crap was said about Unger/ Tate/McCoy (to a lesser extent) - all based off of 1st/2nd year impressions. I've got news for you, players DO tend to improve from year to year (especially as younger players). All 3 have shown it's unwise to make determinations after just 1-2 years in the league.

I like Wright and think his uniqueness outweights his lack of "speed." It doesn't sound like the Will spot in Quinn's system is much different than the SAM in Bradley's system. According to the Seahawks.net article, he dropped alot in coverage last year. I'm interested to see how he does in 2013.

Pandion Haliaetus":rw7qh0aq said:

In K.J. Wright’s case his football intelligence and his length could make up for his lack of overall speed (like Sherman, and to a lesser extent Browner) as long as he’s comfortable and knows what he’s doing when he’s in coverage but again you need reps and experience to become automatic. In Carroll’s scheme he will be a “protected” player meaning he’ll have the easiest opportunities to seek and destroy almost freely in Run Defense ala Lance Briggs and the result of not taking on blocks or having to be the first person to stuff or blow up a gap on the strong side will keep him healthier, which in turn keeps him on the field.

Click to expand...

I agree that KJ's intelligence and length can make up for his lack of speed. We have a hand full of fast LB's but obvoiusly the coaching staff does is not confident enough in them since they are moving KJ to the weak side.

With our LEO being an undersized d-lineman maybe the thinking is that we need a bigger stronger weakside LB to play behind him. If I was an opposing offensive coordinator I would want to run at the LEO & weakside LB side of the field since they are they are or were the undersized players for their positions. With KJ as the weakside LB that may change how teams run at our defense.

I will say that I am highly skeptical of Bruce Irvin playing strongside LB, 4-3 LB's need to have good insticts to play the position. Asking a pass rushing DE to move to SLB in a 4-3 scheme seems a bit ridiculous.

If KJ goes into the season as the starting WLB, then undrafted rookie free agent John Lotulelei is my sleeper to be the week 1 starting SLB. Here is some video of him,
[youtube]ZG6OFh5XRVw[/youtube]

Lotulelei is an undersized LB, but he plays bigger than his size. He has good quickness, good instincts, good at shedding blocks, and he is a hard hitter. GM John Schneider had a 5th round grade on Lotulelie and the Seahawks had him as their number one target after the draft.

I love me some John Lotulelei, its like watching a hybrid Lofa Tatupu and Troy Polamalu.

But I think the Seahawks are trying to do something with Mike Morgan on the Strongside. IMO, Morgan is a real good player, he has solid tackling ability despite his size, but the Seahawks are bulking him up. If he can get up to 235-240, he could be real dangerous, he runs a 4.45 now, so I'd assume gaining that much weight would put him the 4.5 - 4.6s range. Morgan however is 6-3 with the 2nd longest arms on the team at 35 5/8 inches.

My ideal LBer grouping under recent circumstances would be:

SLB: Mike Morgan, Korey Toomer
MLB: Bobby Wagner, Allen Bradford, John Lotulelei
WLB: K.J. Wright, Malcolm Smith

I believe though the Seahawks will keep 6 Linebackers, and who knows how much value Heath Farwell holds to the Seahawks but moving Wright to the WLB actually helps keeps one of the better and blossoming special teams ace more readily available in Malcolm Smith.

So it could be possibly be Toomer vs Bradford vs Lotulelei for 2 spots.

Seems like experimenting with moving KJ around fits the theory that we'll be in nickel more than the traditional base package, and we're looking at this to help keep KJ on the field and to help keep offenses guessing.

I see them using Avril at SLB on early downs, Bennet at Leo, and KJ at WLB. On later downs we will see Bennet move to 5tech, Avril to Leo and the SLB replaced by the nickel back, Winfield.

Bruce Irvin was a safety in JuCo before they turned him loose on QBs at West Virginia. I've heard bits and pieces he has looked comfortable and capable in coverage during OTAs.
So I'm thinking Irvin might get his 1st and 2nd down snaps in a LB spot where he has cover and pass rushing choices. He can be an X-factor.
Agreed, Irvin mostly sucked when he was taking on beefy O-Linemen in the running game, and had problems in pass rush too. The guy is a special athlete and hard worker.
I think they find LB snaps for him a bunch this year.

An aside... anyone have a link to a good explanation of the Seahawks linebacker spots? Will, Sam, Mike, Leo, etc. I'm still confused. I understand Leo more or less, at least as defined by Clemons. Also if it shows where the names came from (Sam Huff? Mike Singletary?) that would be helpful too.