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 Post subject: RW the next Hall of Famer, lets check
 Post Posted: Thu May 23, 2013 10:37 am 
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While talking over drinks and dinner with friends here in California, we started discussing the great Joe Montana. As my one of my wife's best friends lives in San Jose. Her husband is a huge Niner fan. So of course me being a native Seattlean or Seattleite (pick one) we started to talk football. As we talked the conversation went to Joe Montana. Arguably the best QB in history. What this guy said was so so true. He said that the fans there knew Joe had arrived when he started to win games from behind. Win games no one thought he could. Then Joe became that guy through out his career who would bring his team back from a losing first half to win. There are some other greats who blasted into the NFL doing the same thing. Elway and Brady just to name a few. The point is this, the really great QB's, can bring a team back and win against all odds. This guy said we got screwed and that as he saw RW comeback from 20 points down in that Atlanta playoff game to basically win that game. He turned to his wife and said "crap, these guys are now going to play the Niners, and i don't think we can beat them"...But them Seattle did the stupidest thing a playoff team has ever done, the let a team go down the field with 30 seconds left by playing non aggressive like they did the rest of the game. Then they still could have won when the kicker missed, but the stupid coach called a time out trying to ice the kicker. He said we won that game, but the coaching staff lost it for us. But he was very happy, cause now his Niners didn't have to play us and he knew they would be in the Superbowl.
But what i took from this is that this guy was right, RW does seem to have those intangible skills and ability to bring a team back from behind and win. He is what everyone keeps saying about Tebow, he is a winner, but one who actually has skill to play the position. This is a very exciting time to be a Seahawk fan, we may have our first Hall of Fame QB in the history of the Seattle Seahawk Franchise.

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 Post subject: Re: RW the next Hall of Famer, lets check
 Post Posted: Thu May 23, 2013 10:55 am 
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xCalibur wrote:
This is a very exciting time to be a Seahawk fan, we may have our first Hall of Fame QB in the history of the Seattle Seahawk Franchise.


While I admire your enthusiasm and positive opinion of RW, let's not get ahead of ourselves. Dude has one season under his belt.

Let's have this conversation in 10 years when Russell's proven he's worthy of a HOF discussion.

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 Post subject: Re: RW the next Hall of Famer, lets check
 Post Posted: Thu May 23, 2013 10:57 am 
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Sgt. Largent wrote:
xCalibur wrote:
This is a very exciting time to be a Seahawk fan, we may have our first Hall of Fame QB in the history of the Seattle Seahawk Franchise.


While I admire your enthusiasm and positive opinion of RW, let's not get ahead of ourselves. Dude has one season under his belt.

Let's have this conversation in 10 years when Russell's proven he's worthy of a HOF discussion.


OK, i will bring the 12 pack, because it will be a huge celebration in the Pacific Northwest when that happens.

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 Post subject: Re: RW the next Hall of Famer, lets check
 Post Posted: Thu May 23, 2013 11:02 am 
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Sgt. Largent wrote:
xCalibur wrote:
This is a very exciting time to be a Seahawk fan, we may have our first Hall of Fame QB in the history of the Seattle Seahawk Franchise.


While I admire your enthusiasm and positive opinion of RW, let's not get ahead of ourselves. Dude has one season under his belt.

Let's have this conversation in 10 years when Russell's proven he's worthy of a HOF discussion.


I remember last year we argued at length about RW. You said Matt Flynn should be starter and the team would have been way better off with him. You felt its best for QBs to sit as rookies....how did that work out?

RE: xCalibur, RW is a HOFer...Championship.

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Last edited by ImTheScientist on Thu May 23, 2013 11:04 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: RW the next Hall of Famer, lets check
 Post Posted: Thu May 23, 2013 11:04 am 
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I'll say it here: if Wilson goes into the hall of fame I will attend the ceremony, no matter what it costs me. And I will be surrounded by a sea of Seahawk Blue on that day I am sure.

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 Post subject: Re: RW the next Hall of Famer, lets check
 Post Posted: Thu May 23, 2013 11:04 am 
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I agree with your post, but holy crow, please use your enter key once in a while. ;)

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 Post subject: Re: RW the next Hall of Famer, lets check
 Post Posted: Thu May 23, 2013 11:06 am 
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Sgt. Largent wrote:
xCalibur wrote:
This is a very exciting time to be a Seahawk fan, we may have our first Hall of Fame QB in the history of the Seattle Seahawk Franchise.


While I admire your enthusiasm and positive opinion of RW, let's not get ahead of ourselves. Dude has one season under his belt.

Let's have this conversation in 10 years when Russell's proven he's worthy of a HOF discussion.




Yeah people! Honestly, we really should not discuss anything regarding success for at least a decade.

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 Post subject: Re: RW the next Hall of Famer, lets check
 Post Posted: Thu May 23, 2013 11:12 am 
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Where's Cboom with the REAL skinny on Wilson?

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 Post subject: Re: RW the next Hall of Famer, lets check
 Post Posted: Thu May 23, 2013 11:57 am 
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SouthSoundHawk wrote:
Where's Cboom with the REAL skinny on Wilson?

Hey he saw every Seahawk quarterback and Wilson is by far the worst. Wonder how that worked out for him?

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 Post subject: Re: RW the next Hall of Famer, lets check
 Post Posted: Thu May 23, 2013 12:23 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: RW the next Hall of Famer, lets check
 Post Posted: Thu May 23, 2013 12:47 pm 
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xCalibur wrote:
While talking over drinks and dinner with friends here in California, we started discussing the great Joe Montana. As my one of my wife's best friends lives in San Jose. Her husband is a huge Niner fan. So of course me being a native Seattlean or Seattleite (pick one) we started to talk football. As we talked the conversation went to Joe Montana. Arguably the best QB in history. What this guy said was so so true. He said that the fans there knew Joe had arrived when he started to win games from behind. Win games no one thought he could. Then Joe became that guy through out his career who would bring his team back from a losing first half to win. There are some other greats who blasted into the NFL doing the same thing. Elway and Brady just to name a few. The point is this, the really great QB's, can bring a team back and win against all odds. This guy said we got screwed and that as he saw RW comeback from 20 points down in that Atlanta playoff game to basically win that game. He turned to his wife and said "crap, these guys are now going to play the Niners, and i don't think we can beat them"...But them Seattle did the stupidest thing a playoff team has ever done, the let a team go down the field with 30 seconds left by playing non aggressive like they did the rest of the game. Then they still could have won when the kicker missed, but the stupid coach called a time out trying to ice the kicker. He said we won that game, but the coaching staff lost it for us. But he was very happy, cause now his Niners didn't have to play us and he knew they would be in the Superbowl.
But what i took from this is that this guy was right, RW does seem to have those intangible skills and ability to bring a team back from behind and win. He is what everyone keeps saying about Tebow, he is a winner, but one who actually has skill to play the position. This is a very exciting time to be a Seahawk fan, we may have our first Hall of Fame QB in the history of the Seattle Seahawk Franchise.


Good overall thoughts, but I think you miss the mark on a few of these comments: A) The coaching staff DID NOT play "non aggressive" football to lose the game. If you rewatch the game you will realize that we blitzed on both plays. The problem is the blitzing safety wasn't able to get Ryan rattled. To make matters worse Trufant didn't play with proper awareness on the first play for ATL. They were in a zone with Trufant having the flat. If he drops back futher and allows the flat to be open -- something a heady vet should do, than it would have taken away the deep comeback and forced Ryan to take the route in the flat. To which Trufant cound have come up and made tackle.

Instead he covers the flat with a shallow drop - allowing a gaping whole behind him, to which the ATL WR took advantage. Play 2 again we blitz and if Wagner drops Gonzo where he catches the ball it would have saved 5 yards, instead Gonzalez breaks the tackle and get's another 5 yards closer for his kicker.

B) On the kick, it's very wishful thinking to beleive that if PC DIDN't call a timeout Seattle would have won. Why? Because the kicker didn't actually kick the ball until after the play was dead. That's why PC was moaning to the officials because the league said teams aren't allowed a "practice" kick, and the whistle was blown right as the ball was snapped and yet the kicker still approached and kicked the ball. There's no telling what would have happened if the play was live.


On a similiar note: You talk about his ability to comeback from big deficits. I was thinking the other day how much Wilson was shafted by his team's defense-- Think about this bad luck (if he weren't such a good guy, I could see him being a little bitter). In his final year at college he was robbed of a chance at a national title. Simply because he defense gave up 2 BOMBS near the end of regulation in 2 seperate games which cost him a shot a national title-- his only 2 losses of the regular season and it was all on the defense.

Then in the NFL he leads the team down for a win against Detroit (What should have been a coming out moment was fogotten because of the defensive collapse) only to have the defense crap themselves and Browner to inexplicably allow Titus young a free inside release (I don't care what was reported, under no circumstances is it ideal to give up the inside. you use the sidelines to your advantage and you take the inside away).

Then you've got the Bear's game again, the defense inexplicably fails to hold a team with under a minute. They get the FG. Luckily Wilson was able to win the game for a "2nd time". Lastly we get to the Falcons game, where if Seattle wins that game, it becomes the greatest comeback in playoff history, instead the Falcons drive down with little resistence and the season is over.

Hopefully we'll see the offense and defense grow from these experiences.


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 Post subject: Re: RW the next Hall of Famer, lets check
 Post Posted: Thu May 23, 2013 1:08 pm 
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Wilson will be good if healthy, the Seahawks are competitive and could be for a long time, BUT first you have to play the games, second you have to continue to put in the work and not beleive the headline, third you have to take a serious approach and not self destruct ie dumb suspensions.

Everything else is speculation and wishful thinking, when this shity happens and we win the division, conference championship and a Superbowl we can talk about HOF QB's dynasty, and legends, until then it's all hype and press clippings that it seems the fans are buying into more before the team on the field even acheives modest success.

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 Post subject: Re: RW the next Hall of Famer, lets check
 Post Posted: Thu May 23, 2013 1:17 pm 
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I love RW, he had an amazing season. But Im not going to get ahead of myself. The read option will get figured out, and we'll have to see how RW performs when thats no longer effective. We'll also have to see how he continues to play as he gets older and his scrambling may become less effective. Defenses will have much more tape on him this season alone, and we'll have to see how he does against that. I see great potential, I love his play and his attitude. But I'm not going to coin him the next HOFer after one season.


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 Post subject: Re: RW the next Hall of Famer, lets check
 Post Posted: Thu May 23, 2013 1:22 pm 
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T-Sizzle wrote:
Sgt. Largent wrote:
xCalibur wrote:
This is a very exciting time to be a Seahawk fan, we may have our first Hall of Fame QB in the history of the Seattle Seahawk Franchise.


While I admire your enthusiasm and positive opinion of RW, let's not get ahead of ourselves. Dude has one season under his belt.

Let's have this conversation in 10 years when Russell's proven he's worthy of a HOF discussion.


I remember last year we argued at length about RW. You said Matt Flynn should be starter and the team would have been way better off with him. You felt its best for QBs to sit as rookies....how did that work out?

RE: xCalibur, RW is a HOFer...Championship.


My bad, we should just call the HOF and see if they can make an exception for Wilson. "Listen HOF, T-Sizzle and xCalibur have assured me that there's no need for Russell to even play the next 10 yrs, he's a shoe in for the HOF, so chop chop on that yellow jacket."

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 Post subject: Re: RW the next Hall of Famer, lets check
 Post Posted: Thu May 23, 2013 1:27 pm 
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Sgt. Largent wrote:
T-Sizzle wrote:
I remember last year we argued at length about RW. You said Matt Flynn should be starter and the team would have been way better off with him. You felt its best for QBs to sit as rookies....how did that work out?

RE: xCalibur, RW is a HOFer...Championship.


My bad, we should just call the HOF and see if they can make an exception for Wilson. "Listen HOF, T-Sizzle and xCalibur have assured me that there's no need for Russell to even play the next 10 yrs, he's a shoe in for the HOF, so chop chop on that yellow jacket."


Cool, now.....

I remember last year we argued at length about RW. You said Matt Flynn should be starter and the team would have been way better off with him. You felt its best for QBs to sit as rookies....how did that work out?

Considering the performances of RW, RGIII, and Andrew Luck do you feel you were wrong? You have to feel like you assessed Flynn and RW wrong. Perhaps your commentary of PC and JS after that decision was way off base? We argued this in like every thread last year and you seemed to disappear when Wilson took off.

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 Post subject: Re: RW the next Hall of Famer, lets check
 Post Posted: Thu May 23, 2013 1:34 pm 
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gspin2k1 wrote:
I love RW, he had an amazing season. But Im not going to get ahead of myself. The read option will get figured out, and we'll have to see how RW performs when thats no longer effective. We'll also have to see how he continues to play as he gets older and his scrambling may become less effective. Defenses will have much more tape on him this season alone, and we'll have to see how he does against that. I see great potential, I love his play and his attitude. But I'm not going to coin him the next HOFer after one season.

He's actually better as a pocket passer and the Pistol is only used as a wrinkle to our actual offense not as the basis of a offense like Washington and to a lesser extent San Francisco.


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 Post subject: Re: RW the next Hall of Famer, lets check
 Post Posted: Thu May 23, 2013 1:40 pm 
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jlwaters1 wrote:

Good overall thoughts, but I think you miss the mark on a few of these comments: A) The coaching staff DID NOT play "non aggressive" football to lose the game. If you rewatch the game you will realize that we blitzed on both plays. The problem is the blitzing safety wasn't able to get Ryan rattled. To make matters worse Trufant didn't play with proper awareness on the first play for ATL. They were in a zone with Trufant having the flat. If he drops back futher and allows the flat to be open -- something a heady vet should do, than it would have taken away the deep comeback and forced Ryan to take the route in the flat. To which Trufant cound have come up and made tackle.

Instead he covers the flat with a shallow drop - allowing a gaping whole behind him, to which the ATL WR took advantage. Play 2 again we blitz and if Wagner drops Gonzo where he catches the ball it would have saved 5 yards, instead Gonzalez breaks the tackle and get's another 5 yards closer for his kicker.


Before that game, there was a lot of angst around here about our lack of pass rush. I confidently and repeatedly proclaimed that we would not do any extra blitzing and that that was fine. We had the #1 scoring defense--without a pass rush to speak of for most of the season--for a reason and blitzing just wasn't necessary and the trade-offs inherent in blitzing would expose weaknesses that could be exploited.

The coaching staff made a liar out of me, and the team paid for it. Ryan torched us on blitzes, including on that last drive. If we'd simply stuck to our bread and butter, we would have won, in my opinion. Ryan likes to get the ball out of his hands, pressure or no pressure. It's ingrained in his head. He's one of the fastest in the NFL at getting rid of the ball. He's one of the best against blitzes *because* of that fact. It's a source of strength for him and it's also muscle memory. He couldn't change it on a whim anymore than any other habit. In our case, with our poor pass rush but all-world defensive backfield, acknowledging that blitzing would be worthless could have been a significant advantage. If we'd simply relied on our regular coverage schemes, we'd have been fine. We saw that throughout the 4th quarter when our DBs came up big. For Seattle, a team with no history on the season of effective blitzing, against one of the top QBs against blitzes, it just made no sense.

On any play, you can find ways to make the failure one of execution, but I don't think that's the best way to look at this. With the right play call, you can make successful execution FAR easier, you can give your personnel much longer levers to get an advantage. It's true we were agressive in some ways on that last drive, with a predictably ineffective blitz, but in other more important ways we were not aggressive at all.

Brock Huard did a Chalk Talk segment on this.

"When you play this position, you know what I didn't like to see? I didn't like to see press man coverage, with tight windows. What I liked to see? Zone coverage with a lot of space. And, unfortunately, unlike the 3rd down earlier where he throws an out route to Roddy White, one of the times when they got off the field, man coverage. So, man coverage in that 4th quarter. They go zone, these two snaps, and they pay."

[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dAB3cN1hvWA]

Just how many times does one have to see a team in zone picked apart in the last minute of a game before they realize that the safe coverage is the risky one? If you want to avoid losing the game on a single play, at any cost, then I guess it's safe. But if you want to minimize your chance of losing period... Forty yards is nothing. Keeping everything in front of you is a great, great philosophy until the expected value for your opponent of two medium completions is a play-off win.

It wasn't just Brock Huard who noticed it. Eric Davis said the same thing after the game and, when Browner was asked what happened on that last drive, he had a curt answer, "Soft zone".


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 Post subject: Re: RW the next Hall of Famer, lets check
 Post Posted: Thu May 23, 2013 1:49 pm 
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Sgt. Largent wrote:
xCalibur wrote:
This is a very exciting time to be a Seahawk fan, we may have our first Hall of Fame QB in the history of the Seattle Seahawk Franchise.


While I admire your enthusiasm and positive opinion of RW, let's not get ahead of ourselves. Dude has one season under his belt.

Let's have this conversation in 10 years when Russell's proven he's worthy of a HOF discussion.


I would raise him and say after winning 10 Super bowls with the Seahawks Russell Wilson goes back to college to get a degree in biomedical science where he graduates with honors and cures cancer within three years, after which he makes a run for the White House (self funded with the money's earned from curing cancer) and goes on to be one of the greatest President's the US has seen.

Yep, that sounds about right. I might be a little low on the number of Super Bowls though.

You can be conservative all you want, but when it's the future it's best to see everything from the positive, because these teams DO NOT come around very often.


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 Post subject: Re: RW the next Hall of Famer, lets check
 Post Posted: Thu May 23, 2013 1:58 pm 
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Shock2k wrote:
...because these teams DO NOT come around very often.


They do when you have Russell Wilson.

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 Post subject: Re: RW the next Hall of Famer, lets check
 Post Posted: Thu May 23, 2013 2:05 pm 
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SacHawk2.0 wrote:
Shock2k wrote:
...because these teams DO NOT come around very often.


They do when you have Russell Wilson.


Can I get an AMEN!


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 Post subject: Re: RW the next Hall of Famer, lets check
 Post Posted: Fri May 24, 2013 10:01 am 
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T-Sizzle wrote:
Sgt. Largent wrote:
xCalibur wrote:
This is a very exciting time to be a Seahawk fan, we may have our first Hall of Fame QB in the history of the Seattle Seahawk Franchise.


While I admire your enthusiasm and positive opinion of RW, let's not get ahead of ourselves. Dude has one season under his belt.

Let's have this conversation in 10 years when Russell's proven he's worthy of a HOF discussion.


I remember last year we argued at length about RW. You said Matt Flynn should be starter and the team would have been way better off with him. You felt its best for QBs to sit as rookies....how did that work out?

RE: xCalibur, RW is a HOFer...Championship.


Love Wilson to death, it's silly to put any player into the Hall of Fame after one year. Shawn Merriman looked like a sure fire hall of famer as a rookie then came the injuries and the PED's...


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 Post subject: Re: RW the next Hall of Famer, lets check
 Post Posted: Fri May 24, 2013 10:41 am 
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Sgt. Largent wrote:
xCalibur wrote:
This is a very exciting time to be a Seahawk fan, we may have our first Hall of Fame QB in the history of the Seattle Seahawk Franchise.


While I admire your enthusiasm and positive opinion of RW, let's not get ahead of ourselves. Dude has one season under his belt.

Let's have this conversation in 10 years when Russell's proven he's worthy of a HOF discussion.


Yeah we needed you to tell us that.

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 Post subject: Re: RW the next Hall of Famer, lets check
 Post Posted: Fri May 24, 2013 10:48 am 
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So of course me being a native Seattlean or Seattleite...

It's Seattle"ite", not "an".

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 Post subject: Re: RW the next Hall of Famer, lets check
 Post Posted: Fri May 24, 2013 10:53 am 
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Since Wilson will go down as the best QB in NFL history, I'll go out on a limb and say yes, yes Russell Wilson will be a Hall of famer.


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 Post subject: Re: RW the next Hall of Famer, lets check
 Post Posted: Fri May 24, 2013 3:52 pm 
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SouthSoundHawk wrote:
Where's Cboom with the REAL skinny on Wilson?



From what I understand (Because he hasn't retracted it), Cboom still stands by this quote:

"A couple years from now Wilson will be forgotten about and you will forget I said he would fail" (Cboom, 2012)


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