Drafts of Other NFC West Teams--What's your grade?

NinerLifer · May 6, 2013

amill87":340i0krg said:
TwistedHusky":340i0krg said:

No way.

Winner is the 49ers.

The 49ers were simply not deep, that was their big weakness. They almost never rotated people out, you could see the big difference when Smith went down there was nobody to even spell him for a bit.

Now they have depth and if any of their picks end up being a performer this year then that is just gravy. Their secondary probably got better too.

For a team like us that is chasing them, considering we might have a harder schedule than they do, that is not really great news.

Click to expand...

uhh the Niner's big weakness was their secondary and they lost their best player in FA. They filled the holes they had in the secondary with a rookie with arthritic shoulders and an old CB. I think they did alright with the d-line depth but they didn't do much to fix that secondary and I think it's gonna come back to bite them.

As for the rest of the division, it's pretty hard to give grades because the grading scale can't be the same for all the teams. Cards are almost in full rebuild mode. Rams are in the middle of theirs. The Hawks and Niners are looking for depth and future players. I think for what each team was trying to accomplish the order would go:

1. Rams
2. Cards
3. Seahawks
4. Niners

Rams needed flash and impact and they get my number one almost purely off Austin. He has to prove he can take the beating at the NFL level but he looks good.

Cards will probably get the most players that contribute this year simply because they need the most. I don't blame them for not going tackle at 7 and Cooper will help their terrible run game.

Harvin figures into the equation somewhat with the Hawks draft and that's why I put them ahead of the Niners. Added even more depth to an almost incredibly deep d-line. A lot of pundits viewed Micheal as the best back in the draft talent wise and we also picked up a corner who is eerily similar to Sherman, size wise.

The Niners addressed some of their thin d-line issues but overall I feel their draft was used to fill positions they lost in FA. While that happens to good teams, did they really get better? They lost their starting NT, All pro safety, and back up DE to FA. The only d-line player they added in FA was Glenn Dorsey. They added two d-lineman in the draft and a safety. They basically replaced what they lost with the draft. That might work out but it's an unknown, Isaac Sopoaga and Goldson were good players. Can the draft picks live up to their level?

So you guys get to factor in Harvin since you gave up your first for him, but you then choose to not factor Boldin into ours since we have up only a 6th for him?

You guys want to talk about value...

Lady Talon · May 6, 2013

NinerLifer":jp5yioxm said:
amill87":jp5yioxm said:

TwistedHusky":jp5yioxm said:

No way.

Winner is the 49ers.

The 49ers were simply not deep, that was their big weakness. They almost never rotated people out, you could see the big difference when Smith went down there was nobody to even spell him for a bit.

Now they have depth and if any of their picks end up being a performer this year then that is just gravy. Their secondary probably got better too.

For a team like us that is chasing them, considering we might have a harder schedule than they do, that is not really great news.

Click to expand...

uhh the Niner's big weakness was their secondary and they lost their best player in FA. They filled the holes they had in the secondary with a rookie with arthritic shoulders and an old CB. I think they did alright with the d-line depth but they didn't do much to fix that secondary and I think it's gonna come back to bite them.

As for the rest of the division, it's pretty hard to give grades because the grading scale can't be the same for all the teams. Cards are almost in full rebuild mode. Rams are in the middle of theirs. The Hawks and Niners are looking for depth and future players. I think for what each team was trying to accomplish the order would go:

1. Rams
2. Cards
3. Seahawks
4. Niners

Rams needed flash and impact and they get my number one almost purely off Austin. He has to prove he can take the beating at the NFL level but he looks good.

Cards will probably get the most players that contribute this year simply because they need the most. I don't blame them for not going tackle at 7 and Cooper will help their terrible run game.

Harvin figures into the equation somewhat with the Hawks draft and that's why I put them ahead of the Niners. Added even more depth to an almost incredibly deep d-line. A lot of pundits viewed Micheal as the best back in the draft talent wise and we also picked up a corner who is eerily similar to Sherman, size wise.

The Niners addressed some of their thin d-line issues but overall I feel their draft was used to fill positions they lost in FA. While that happens to good teams, did they really get better? They lost their starting NT, All pro safety, and back up DE to FA. The only d-line player they added in FA was Glenn Dorsey. They added two d-lineman in the draft and a safety. They basically replaced what they lost with the draft. That might work out but it's an unknown, Isaac Sopoaga and Goldson were good players. Can the draft picks live up to their level?

Click to expand...

So you guys get to factor in Harvin since you gave up your first for him, but you then choose to not factor Boldin into ours since we have up only a 6th for him?

You guys want to talk about value...

Um, you want us to talk about the long term team building of the NFC West and include your geriatric WR that was contemplating retirement?

There's a reason he didn't mention Winfield. He's geriatric and on a 1 year contract, similar to Boldin.

NinerLifer · May 6, 2013

Except there are plenty of posters on here who have included all your players you traded picks for when grading the teams respective drafts..."geriatric"or not, and yet none have included Boldin ever.

I can really care less, just thought it was amusing when I see posters claim that they only give the Hawks a higher draft grade due to the Harvin trade, but NONE have ever included the fact that we only gave up a 6th for a proven and very capable WR as well. Obviously not the same type of player as Harvin, but still a very talented playmaker.

Lady Talon · May 7, 2013

Because Seattle got a long term contract out of Harvin, albeit expensive, he'll be around as long as a 1st round pick barring a free agent bust.

6th round picks aren't exactly coveted, but you get to pay $6m to a guy that's one and done. He may be a better option then Moss, but he's not assured of a good season either. He'll retire long before this years 6th rounders finish out their contracts. Not sure what you want them to say.

I'm not among those that lump Harvin into our draft, the best part of the NFL draft at the moment is cheap 3-4 year contracts and Harvin's is anything but. But at least he'll contribute as much as a draft pick.

Marvin49 · May 7, 2013

Lady Talon":3m4ulnot said:
NinerLifer":3m4ulnot said:

amill87":3m4ulnot said:

uhh the Niner's big weakness was their secondary and they lost their best player in FA. They filled the holes they had in the secondary with a rookie with arthritic shoulders and an old CB. I think they did alright with the d-line depth but they didn't do much to fix that secondary and I think it's gonna come back to bite them.

As for the rest of the division, it's pretty hard to give grades because the grading scale can't be the same for all the teams. Cards are almost in full rebuild mode. Rams are in the middle of theirs. The Hawks and Niners are looking for depth and future players. I think for what each team was trying to accomplish the order would go:

1. Rams
2. Cards
3. Seahawks
4. Niners

Rams needed flash and impact and they get my number one almost purely off Austin. He has to prove he can take the beating at the NFL level but he looks good.

Cards will probably get the most players that contribute this year simply because they need the most. I don't blame them for not going tackle at 7 and Cooper will help their terrible run game.

Harvin figures into the equation somewhat with the Hawks draft and that's why I put them ahead of the Niners. Added even more depth to an almost incredibly deep d-line. A lot of pundits viewed Micheal as the best back in the draft talent wise and we also picked up a corner who is eerily similar to Sherman, size wise.

The Niners addressed some of their thin d-line issues but overall I feel their draft was used to fill positions they lost in FA. While that happens to good teams, did they really get better? They lost their starting NT, All pro safety, and back up DE to FA. The only d-line player they added in FA was Glenn Dorsey. They added two d-lineman in the draft and a safety. They basically replaced what they lost with the draft. That might work out but it's an unknown, Isaac Sopoaga and Goldson were good players. Can the draft picks live up to their level?

Click to expand...

So you guys get to factor in Harvin since you gave up your first for him, but you then choose to not factor Boldin into ours since we have up only a 6th for him?

You guys want to talk about value...

Click to expand...

Um, you want us to talk about the long term team building of the NFC West and include your geriatric WR that was contemplating retirement?

There's a reason he didn't mention Winfield. He's geriatric and on a 1 year contract, similar to Boldin.

1) Boldin wasn't contemplating retirement. Thats simply BS. He's also only 32.
2) Boldin should be included because a 49er draft pick was used to aquire him. The same can't be said of Winfield. Winfield was FA.
3) Also....you might want to include Colt McCoy and the additional #3 they get next year from the Titans. They were also both the product of 49ers draft pick trades.

If you are going to include Harvin, you have include the product of all picks from this draft.

Happypuppy · May 7, 2013

Marvin49":1rtknl7z said:
Lady Talon":1rtknl7z said:

NinerLifer":1rtknl7z said:

amill87 said:

uhh the Niner's big weakness was their secondary and they lost their best player in FA. They filled the holes they had in the secondary with a rookie with arthritic shoulders and an old CB. I think they did alright with the d-line depth but they didn't do much to fix that secondary and I think it's gonna come back to bite them.

As for the rest of the division, it's pretty hard to give grades because the grading scale can't be the same for all the teams. Cards are almost in full rebuild mode. Rams are in the middle of theirs. The Hawks and Niners are looking for depth and future players. I think for what each team was trying to accomplish the order would go:

1. Rams
2. Cards
3. Seahawks
4. Niners

Rams needed flash and impact and they get my number one almost purely off Austin. He has to prove he can take the beating at the NFL level but he looks good.

Cards will probably get the most players that contribute this year simply because they need the most. I don't blame them for not going tackle at 7 and Cooper will help their terrible run game.

Harvin figures into the equation somewhat with the Hawks draft and that's why I put them ahead of the Niners. Added even more depth to an almost incredibly deep d-line. A lot of pundits viewed Micheal as the best back in the draft talent wise and we also picked up a corner who is eerily similar to Sherman, size wise.

The Niners addressed some of their thin d-line issues but overall I feel their draft was used to fill positions they lost in FA. While that happens to good teams, did they really get better? They lost their starting NT, All pro safety, and back up DE to FA. The only d-line player they added in FA was Glenn Dorsey. They added two d-lineman in the draft and a safety. They basically replaced what they lost with the draft. That might work out but it's an unknown, Isaac Sopoaga and Goldson were good players. Can the draft picks live up to their level?

Click to expand...

So you guys get to factor in Harvin since you gave up your first for him, but you then choose to not factor Boldin into ours since we have up only a 6th for him?

You guys want to talk about value...

Click to expand...

Um, you want us to talk about the long term team building of the NFC West and include your geriatric WR that was contemplating retirement?

There's a reason he didn't mention Winfield. He's geriatric and on a 1 year contract, similar to Boldin.

Click to expand...

1) Boldin wasn't contemplating retirement. Thats simply BS. He's also only 32.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/gameon/20 ... s/1981535/

2) Boldin should be included because a 49er draft pick was used to aquire him. The same can't be said of Winfield. Winfield was FA.
3) Also....you might want to include Colt McCoy and the additional #3 they get next year from the Titans. They were also both the product of 49ers draft pick trades.

The 49ers had a decent draft. Last years .... Lets see how the draft picks play on the D-line and the aging secondary and the new rookies.

Colt McCoy? Please....

NinerLifer · May 7, 2013

LOL...talk about reading between the lines!

Making a statement such as "I would rather retire than...." doesn't mean that he was contemplating retirement LOL! It was just his way of showing that there was no other team that he wanted to ever play for at the time.

Think of it this way, If you said "I would rather kill myself than become a Niner fan!", is everybody supposed to believe that you are now Suicidal and am contemplating killing yourself even though you are a Seattle fan still?

It's called a "figure of speach".

theENGLISHseahawk · May 7, 2013

NinerLifer":3shdxckx said:
So you guys get to factor in Harvin since you gave up your first for him, but you then choose to not factor Boldin into ours since we have up only a 6th for him?

They probably don't think another four touchdown season is worth noting.

NinerLifer · May 7, 2013

theENGLISHseahawk":2rlagchf said:
NinerLifer":2rlagchf said:

So you guys get to factor in Harvin since you gave up your first for him, but you then choose to not factor Boldin into ours since we have up only a 6th for him?

Click to expand...

They probably don't think another four touchdown season is worth noting.

So nobody ever performs better than their last season huh?

Well I guess your team peaked and you'll have to start considering the wildcard round your Superbowl victory since your players are never going to get any better.

And we'll have to get used to being the NFC Champions every year...bummer!

Lady Talon · May 7, 2013

So his retirement talk was hyperbole, fine. show me where he said he wants to play until he's 40. lol.

How long do you think he's playing for? a four year stint? will the niners even bother giving him another contract? Is he going to want one even if the team has a disappointing season?

He was contemplating retirement. Can't tell me that he didn't see going out on top with a super bowl win instead of risking his body and future as pretty tempting.

I mean that was the story line of Moss last year wasn't it? the last chance at a Super Bowl.

NinerBuff · May 8, 2013

I'll answer this one...

Lady Talon":383n5v5u said:
How long do you think he's playing for? a four year stint? will the niners even bother giving him another contract? Is he going to want one even if the team has a disappointing season?

The only reason we were able to acquire Boldin was that the Ravens didn't want to pay him $6M with Flacco's deal over their heads. We opened up Alex Smith's money, and dropped in Boldin's contract. Unless Boldin plays like he did in Arizona, I doubt we sign him again. He's there to bridge the gap until Jenkins, Patton, and potentially your castaway Lockette are ready to take over.

You probably haven't heard much about Patton, but he's already Harbaugh's favorite and I wouldn't be surprised if he jumps into the 3rd WR position right away. Jenkins and Lockette have been training with Kaep all offseason and I expect both to make good progress, especially Jenkins who's markedly bigger.

So the Boldin contract is for 1 season to provide another reliable WR with great hands and a viable RZ threat. Much better than a 6th round pick, considering we had 15 picks at the time.

Marvin49 · May 8, 2013

Happypuppy":29xx2syi said:
Marvin49":29xx2syi said:

Lady Talon":29xx2syi said:

Um, you want us to talk about the long term team building of the NFC West and include your geriatric WR that was contemplating retirement?

There's a reason he didn't mention Winfield. He's geriatric and on a 1 year contract, similar to Boldin.

Click to expand...

1) Boldin wasn't contemplating retirement. Thats simply BS. He's also only 32.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/gameon/20 ... s/1981535/

2) Boldin should be included because a 49er draft pick was used to aquire him. The same can't be said of Winfield. Winfield was FA.
3) Also....you might want to include Colt McCoy and the additional #3 they get next year from the Titans. They were also both the product of 49ers draft pick trades.

Click to expand...

The 49ers had a decent draft. Last years .... Lets see how the draft picks play on the D-line and the aging secondary and the new rookies.

Colt McCoy? Please....

Uh....he didn't think he'd play for another team this season so he said he would "retire a Raven". That was a quote from before he was traded. He didn't expect to be traded. He was traded. He isn't retiring. He wasn't "contemplating retirement". If Russell Wilson said tomorrow that he'd retire a Seahawk, would that mean he is "contemplating retirment? No..it just means he's loyal to Seattle.

Colt McCoy was aquired for draft picks. I wasn't trying to say he's a game changer...I was just saying he was aquired with draft picks so should be included just as Harvin is. BTW, I do think it was a good trade considering what they gave up....essentially just a 7th round pick.

Essentially....if you are going to include Harvin in your draft class, the Niner draft class should look like so...

San Francisco 49ers

18. Eric Reid, free safety, LSU.
40. Tank Carradine, outside linebacker, Florida State.
55. Vance McDonald, tight end, Rice.
88. Corey Lemonier, outside linebacker, Auburn.
128. Quinton Patton, receiver, Louisiana Tech.
131. Marcus Lattimore, running back, South Carolina.
157. Quinton Dial, defensive end, Alabama.
180. Nick Moody, linebacker, Florida State.
199. Anquan Boldin, receiver, Florida State.
221. Colt McCoy, quarterback, Texas.
237. B.J. Daniels, quarterback, South Florida.
246. Carter Bykowski, tackle, Iowa State.
252. Marcus Cooper, cornerback, Rutgers.

theENGLISHseahawk · May 8, 2013

NinerLifer":18cgye9h said:
theENGLISHseahawk":18cgye9h said:

NinerLifer":18cgye9h said:

So you guys get to factor in Harvin since you gave up your first for him, but you then choose to not factor Boldin into ours since we have up only a 6th for him?

Click to expand...

They probably don't think another four touchdown season is worth noting.

Click to expand...

So nobody ever performs better than their last season huh?

Well I guess your team peaked and you'll have to start considering the wildcard round your Superbowl victory since your players are never going to get any better.

And we'll have to get used to being the NFC Champions every year...bummer!

Every time you post... I picture this...

RolandDeschain · May 8, 2013

49ers fans, if a guy says he's gonna retire on team X, he was obviously contemplating retirement. He changed his mind. You're arguing that he never thought it in the first place, which is ridiculous and factually incorrect. Just sayin'.

look@dafilm · May 8, 2013

RolandDeschain":sekoceuv said:
49ers fans, if a guy says he's gonna retire on team X, he was obviously contemplating retirement. He changed his mind. You're arguing that he never thought it in the first place, which is ridiculous and factually incorrect. Just sayin'.

That may be true, but "contemplating retirement" doesn't mean he doesn't "count" towards the 49ers draft in the same manner that Harvin does for Seattle

Lady Talon · May 9, 2013

look@dafilm":1scq21f7 said:
RolandDeschain":1scq21f7 said:

49ers fans, if a guy says he's gonna retire on team X, he was obviously contemplating retirement. He changed his mind. You're arguing that he never thought it in the first place, which is ridiculous and factually incorrect. Just sayin'.

Click to expand...

That may be true, but "contemplating retirement" doesn't mean he doesn't "count" towards the 49ers draft in the same manner that Harvin does for Seattle

And how do you expect a 30+ year old with the most physical receiver in the league label to last? lol. 1 year. So how does this affect your team in the long run? If you're talking draft impact, you talk about how a pick you spent lasts you for a number of years. Even if he doesn't retire, when his contract is up, he'll likely not be resigned. Even by the most optimistic projections, he's a 1 year stopgap not a replacement for a rookie contract.

So either way why would you guys complain about saying we traded our first for a 24 year old who will impact the Hawks for 6 years, by saying you traded your 6th round pick for a one off that won't last 25% of a rookie contract?

RichNhansom · May 9, 2013

Why is this a debate? Who cares about draft grades? They are meaningless and based purely on speculation by novices. The guys that have the most education and information work for teams and they are wrong as often as not.

The Niners are in a bad situation with their draft at this poi t because that are going to learn NY trial and error what their draft picks strengths and weakness's are. How do you think they would have faired last year if Jenkins was forced to be one of the starters from game one? Well guess what, they are now in that position in multiple positions. Good luck with that. Last years draft grade were similar to this years and how did that work out?

NinerLifer · May 9, 2013

RichNhansom":1blwufd2 said:
Why is this a debate? Who cares about draft grades? They are meaningless and based purely on speculation by novices. The guys that have the most education and information work for teams and they are wrong as often as not.

The Niners are in a bad situation with their draft at this poi t because that are going to learn NY trial and error what their draft picks strengths and weakness's are. How do you think they would have faired last year if Jenkins was forced to be one of the starters from game one? Well guess what, they are now in that position in multiple positions. Good luck with that. Last years draft grade were similar to this years and how did that work out?

Well since your the expert, I guess the season is a wash...just like last year. :sarcasm_off:

Marvin49 · May 9, 2013

RolandDeschain":1dwecrag said:
49ers fans, if a guy says he's gonna retire on team X, he was obviously contemplating retirement. He changed his mind. You're arguing that he never thought it in the first place, which is ridiculous and factually incorrect. Just sayin'.

I guess we'll agree to disagree.

Marvin49 · May 9, 2013

Lady Talon":s6v0t92h said:
look@dafilm":s6v0t92h said:

RolandDeschain":s6v0t92h said:

49ers fans, if a guy says he's gonna retire on team X, he was obviously contemplating retirement. He changed his mind. You're arguing that he never thought it in the first place, which is ridiculous and factually incorrect. Just sayin'.

Click to expand...

That may be true, but "contemplating retirement" doesn't mean he doesn't "count" towards the 49ers draft in the same manner that Harvin does for Seattle

Click to expand...

And how do you expect a 30+ year old with the most physical receiver in the league label to last? lol. 1 year. So how does this affect your team in the long run? If you're talking draft impact, you talk about how a pick you spent lasts you for a number of years. Even if he doesn't retire, when his contract is up, he'll likely not be resigned. Even by the most optimistic projections, he's a 1 year stopgap not a replacement for a rookie contract.

So either way why would you guys complain about saying we traded our first for a 24 year old who will impact the Hawks for 6 years, by saying you traded your 6th round pick for a one off that won't last 25% of a rookie contract?

I don't understand why this is too complicated.

Boldin was aquired for a 6th round pick.

Colt McCoy was for a 7 and a swap of picks 8 picks apart.

They were aquisitions from Draft Picks.

People here want Harvin included in the draft evaluation because he was aquired for draft picks.

Why even argue? 2 of the picks the Niners had were used on Boldin and McCoy. 2 of the picks the Seahawks had were used on Harvin. Why is this too difficult?

All I see are people saying those guys won't be around longer than a year. How do you know that? They could sign extensions just as Harvin did. Some of the rookies drafted may be around no longer than a year especially ones taken in the 6th or 7th round like the picks the Niners gave up for those players.

I see no reason not to include them in the draft class if you are going to include Harvin. It makes no sense not to.

Drafts of Other NFC West Teams--What's your grade?

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