Is Harper an enforcer?

jlwaters1

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Attyla the Hawk":tu1mu8cl said:
Couple things

1. He's not slow. He's actually pretty fast. Faster than DeAndre Hopkins and a whole slew of others. His quickness is actually very good. Comparable to Steadman Bailey/Quinton Patton. In fact by measurables, he's pretty indistinguishable from Patton in speed/explosion/agility. Except he is on another plane as far as physicality goes.

2. His route running is generally poor. The fact that he doesn't produce consistent separation can be partially remedied by just becoming better at his craft.

3. He has good tools. Good hands. Catches contested balls. Extends from his frame. Has 'World Theory' bulk and speed. He gives up a lot in height to a guy like Justin Hunter. But that guy plays physically like a 5'8" sissy. Harper plays like a man with a pair. Angry. Violent. Aggressive.



4. Seattle understands that these guys aren't as good as they WILL be. Harper has a lot of fight. A lot of tools to work with. And a reasonable expectation that he will continue to master his craft. You can become a better technician. But if you don't have the God given physical tools and equally the mindset to match -- those are things that can't be 'coached up'.

Harper is going to be a better pro than he was a collegian. Of that I have no doubt. This guys is going to grow and if he grows sufficiently well, he'll be Rice's successor.

Most seem to think Michael is this explosive home run hitter with exceptional size, meanwhile It's been bandied about around here that Harper isn't particularly fast.

The fact is both ran virtually identical 40 times at the combine. Michael's official time was 4.54, Harper= 4.55
Infact Harper is a pretty explosive athlete in his own right.

Harper= 20 reps @ 225, 4.55=40 time, 35.5" = vert, 116" broadjump, 6.89= 3-cone, 4.39= 20 yd shuttle
Michael= 27 reps @ 225, 4.54= 40 time, 43" =vert, 125" broadjump, 6.69= 3-cone, 4.02= 20 yd shuttle

I think both will have an impact this year.
 

xCalibur

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Pandion Haliaetus":39h0wdjk said:
RichNhansom":39h0wdjk said:
I've heard the comparisons to Boldin and that is no insult but I don't see a Boldin type of receiver fitting into our line up. He has great hands and great body control but he is not a guy who gets separation and creates opportunities. His success has come from savy QB's and opponents taking away the other options around him. He is the guy you throw to when everyone is covered because he gives you the best chance of completion very much like when Hass was throwing to BMW.

I think you're definitely missing a lot of key points especially in the comparison to Boldin. In terms of athleticism, Harper is better than Boldin.

Boldin out of college ran a 4.72 40 in the Combine at 216 pounds.

Harper ran a 4.50 40 in the combine at 229 pounds and then ran a 4.45 at his Pro Day.

In fact, Harper is better than Boldin in every tested measurable at 13 plus pounds.

Theoretically, if Harper were to slim down 10-15 pounds and improve his overall athleticism specifically speed, you could get a player who clocks in the 4.35-4.45. Is that not the type of guy who get separation and create opportunities for himself.

I'm not sure what you're arguing against either because you're also right Seahawks didn't draft Harper to be a burner capable of creating separation. They drafted him because he's capable of being that big WR like BMW and Edwards. What Harper lacks in a few inches of height, he makes up for in a solid Vert (35 ½), Long Arms (32 ¾), and a Basketball background as a Post-Up player (able to box out defenders and High-Point the ball). And they definitely drafted him for his ability to be an enforcer as a big, tough, physical WR as well as his upside to be an elite and tenacious downfield blocker.


Add to that the fact that this kid used to play QB, he will know the defeses well and i wouldn't doubt for a second he would spend a ton of time with Wilson preparing for games. Don't discount the QB, thing...it gives this already talented WR an added edge in every game he plays. He can go back to the huddle and tell Wilson everything he is seeing from a QB's perspective. This is a huge deal...this kid is going to be special...your going to hear Wilson to Harper a ton over the next few yrs.
 

Pandion Haliaetus

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RichNhansom":3t1gzch3 said:
Intermediate to deep middle does make sense but the Boldin type receivers usually make their hay in systems that don't feature multiple receivers that excel in getting open. They often become the guy you go to when nothing else is there. If everyone is covered and you have to pass, those are the guys you ho to because they have the best chance at coming down with it.

Kaepernick is going to see a covered receiver when he looks at Boldin. If he is smart he will find ways to put the ball in the best location that Boldin can fight for it but if he gets through his progressions and someone else looks open he will probably take that option most often even if that receiver isn't the better option.

With Rice, Tate, Miller, Baldwin and Harvin it will be very difficult to cover them all. So if Harper is a Boldun clone (not saying he is) our system probably wouldn't utilize his skill set.

That's nonsense. Because like we all said that Harper isn't a polished WR and crisp route-runner nor is he a burner excelling at creating separation.

He has a lot of athleticism for his size, long arms, big hands, he's strong, tough and physical with the ability to box out defenders, high-point the ball, and make catches in traffic. As well as, his capability and willingness to be a nasty downfield blocker.

Seahawks drafted Harper because he's unlike any other WR on the current roster and he will be utilized accordingly to his own strengths. The current Seahawks mantra is "Its not what the player can't do, its what they can do" Harper is a big WR with similar skillset to Boldin, pure and simple, if the Seahawks wanted a polished, route runner who can create separation they would have drafted Quitton Patton. There is a place and a plan for Chris Harper, the enforcer.
 
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RichNhansom

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That's nonsense. Because like we all said that Harper isn't a polished WR and crisp route-runner nor is he a burner excelling at creating separation.


You kind of lost me. What is nonsense? I never said anything about being polished or crisp routes or being a burner. I have said nothing in this thread about what I think he is. I said (again) I think Ward is a better comparison and I am only implying that I suspect the FO might be looking at him as that type of enforcer. A guy that at any skill set is going to create a physical presence on the field and that presence could even spill over the locker room and practice.

I think Pete wants a physically tough and imposing team. I think it is in the forfront of what they are preaching and coaching. No matter what kind of receiver Harper turns out to be (and I have very high hopes) I don't think they brought him in to be a Boldin clone.

I don't really get some of the responses that seem to want to create some type of argument. If you don't think the FO believes he could be that physical enforcer type presence then great. I'm not trying to argue his strengths or weakness's. Ward is an excellent receiver on top of the fact he is an enforcer. DB's know when they played against him they needed to keep their head on a swivel. That creates distraction and hesitance on top of the fact he is a play maker. Tell me the nonsense in having that type of guy on your team, especially a team that exudes smash mouth football.

I hope the guy is the next Steve Largent and Jerry rice rolled into one but if he can smack DB's in the mouth while being that guy I will like him even more.
 

haroldseattle

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RichNhansom":l4no0vwf said:
I've heard the comparisons to Boldin and that is no insult but I don't see a Boldin type of receiver fitting into our line up. He has great hands and great body control but he is not a guy who gets separation and creates opportunities. His success has come from savy QB's and opponents taking away the other options around him. He is the guy you throw to when everyone is covered because he gives you the best chance of completion very much like when Hass was throwing to BMW.

On a side note I don't think he really fits in with the Niners either as Crabtree is excellent at getting separation and creating opportunities and unless defenses figure out how to shut him down Kaepernick will continue going straight to him.

I have been getting the feeling the reason the FO likes Harper is more due to attitude. Think Hines Ward. We have enforcers all over the field with Kamtrack, Browner, Giacamini, Lynch and now Sweezey but we don't have anyone of the receivers that have taken on that role. I think Harper may just be that guy. It's one thing to block downfied and another to take the heads off of CB's and safety's just because you can.

Remember how Browner went into blocking mode and leveled a CB (can't remember who) and caused the defender to attack him. Similar to how you have seen Ward take out defenders. I think that is what they have in mind with Harper. The enforcer of the receiving core.

This really struck home when I heard an interview with him this morning and he made a coupe comments about being nasty on the field and playing with anger. I think this guy might end up becoming a big fan favorite and will set the tone not only for the other receivers but for the defenses we will be playing.

Consider Tates hit on Sean Lee last year. It wasn't dirty by any means but it was definitely brutal and set a tone. That hit IMO was the product of preaching from the coach's to create a nasty environment but one hit a season isn't enough. We need an enforcer type personality that sets the tone every time he steps on the field, in practice and the locker room. I am excited to see how this plays out. Could be awesome.

I believe your referring to his giving Greg Jennings a hello!

[youtube]Ljk3Ak7UlwU[/youtube]
 
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RichNhansom

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Thank you haroldseattle, that is what I was referring to and I absolutely love that clip. Browner is awesome.
 

themunn

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RichNhansom":10nggh6a said:
Remember how Browner went into blocking mode and leveled a CB (can't remember who) and caused the defender to attack him.

jlwaters1":10nggh6a said:
I agree, I think the secondary has that nasty attitude-- I remember a play with BRowner vs, a Redskins WR (Santana Moss, or maybe it was the Falcons game) Browner was nearly in a fist fight with the guy and the two were duking it out and the refs let them play.

You guys say this as if it happened once or twice.
This is every single play Browner is ever involved in (and that's why all the suggestions of us trying to "upgrade" over him with Lane/Simon/Thurmond etc are fantasy. Browner gives you something that 99.9% of players in the league simply can't offer).
 

ImTheScientist

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themunn":27c5wu0m said:
RichNhansom":27c5wu0m said:
Remember how Browner went into blocking mode and leveled a CB (can't remember who) and caused the defender to attack him.

jlwaters1":27c5wu0m said:
I agree, I think the secondary has that nasty attitude-- I remember a play with BRowner vs, a Redskins WR (Santana Moss, or maybe it was the Falcons game) Browner was nearly in a fist fight with the guy and the two were duking it out and the refs let them play.

You guys say this as if it happened once or twice.
This is every single play Browner is ever involved in (and that's why all the suggestions of us trying to "upgrade" over him with Lane/Simon/Thurmond etc are fantasy. Browner gives you something that 99.9% of players in the league simply can't offer).

We did just fine without him last season. Look at the defense during those games.
 

themunn

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T-Sizzle":10my2u8j said:
themunn":10my2u8j said:
RichNhansom":10my2u8j said:
Remember how Browner went into blocking mode and leveled a CB (can't remember who) and caused the defender to attack him.

jlwaters1":10my2u8j said:
I agree, I think the secondary has that nasty attitude-- I remember a play with BRowner vs, a Redskins WR (Santana Moss, or maybe it was the Falcons game) Browner was nearly in a fist fight with the guy and the two were duking it out and the refs let them play.

You guys say this as if it happened once or twice.
This is every single play Browner is ever involved in (and that's why all the suggestions of us trying to "upgrade" over him with Lane/Simon/Thurmond etc are fantasy. Browner gives you something that 99.9% of players in the league simply can't offer).

We did just fine without him last season. Look at the defense during those games.

Defense is a lot easier to play when the offense is putting up 50 points a game, and even in that regard our pass defense was still better when Browner was available (aside from the Arizona game... although it was impossible for pass defense to NOT be excellent against Arizona regardless of who played)
 

HawkWow

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I don't need to remind any of you of our past label of being "soft". That label did us as much harm as Behring did. What respectable FA wants to be linked to a soft team?

Harper brings a toughness to the last position we lacked toughness. Opposing heads will now be on swivels, at every level, on both sides of the ball. Harper definitely needs to be coached up, but I believe his immediate contribution will be blocking for Harvin (etc.). I love this pick and believe he will be a crowd favorite by mid-season.
 

DavidSeven

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T-Sizzle":1a1290tm said:
themunn":1a1290tm said:
RichNhansom":1a1290tm said:
Remember how Browner went into blocking mode and leveled a CB (can't remember who) and caused the defender to attack him.

jlwaters1":1a1290tm said:
I agree, I think the secondary has that nasty attitude-- I remember a play with BRowner vs, a Redskins WR (Santana Moss, or maybe it was the Falcons game) Browner was nearly in a fist fight with the guy and the two were duking it out and the refs let them play.

You guys say this as if it happened once or twice.
This is every single play Browner is ever involved in (and that's why all the suggestions of us trying to "upgrade" over him with Lane/Simon/Thurmond etc are fantasy. Browner gives you something that 99.9% of players in the league simply can't offer).

We did just fine without him last season. Look at the defense during those games.

Come on, three of those games were against Arizona, Buffalo and St. Louis. The other was against San Francisco, and they don't have a legit #2 receiver. I love Lane's potential, but look what BB did in the Atlanta game. He was lights out.
 

jlwaters1

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HawkWow":dkohvkuh said:
I don't need to remind any of you of our past label of being "soft". That label did us as much harm as Behring did. What respectable FA wants to be linked to a soft team?

Harper brings a toughness to the last position we lacked toughness. Opposing heads will now be on swivels, at every level, on both sides of the ball. Harper definitely needs to be coached up, but I believe his immediate contribution will be blocking for Harvin (etc.). I love this pick and believe he will be a crowd favorite by mid-season.

I'm with you. This is my favorite pick. I agree also that the WR corps for the most part has been more finesse. Rice isn't really an imposing threat, dispite his height. Tate is the closest thing, He's real scrappy and lays the wood when blocking. I think Harper's going to be the WR's equivalent to BRowner and will get after people in run blocking situations.

I would love to see him be a significant contributor this year.
 

HawkWow

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jlwaters1":1tpns52x said:
HawkWow":1tpns52x said:
I don't need to remind any of you of our past label of being "soft". That label did us as much harm as Behring did. What respectable FA wants to be linked to a soft team?

Harper brings a toughness to the last position we lacked toughness. Opposing heads will now be on swivels, at every level, on both sides of the ball. Harper definitely needs to be coached up, but I believe his immediate contribution will be blocking for Harvin (etc.). I love this pick and believe he will be a crowd favorite by mid-season.

I'm with you. This is my favorite pick. I agree also that the WR corps for the most part has been more finesse. Rice isn't really an imposing threat, dispite his height. Tate is the closest thing, He's real scrappy and lays the wood when blocking. I think Harper's going to be the WR's equivalent to BRowner and will get after people in run blocking situations.

I would love to see him be a significant contributor this year.


I'm calling him my (immediate) favorite pick as well. And I agree Tate was about the only WR we had that played with attitude. Tate was indeed scrappy, but not Steve Smith scrappy and at his size, he'd have to be SS scrappy to do what (I believe) we will see Harper do. Some are focusing too much on his lack of polish, IMO. I think polish was the last thing Pete was looking for in the role he will intially play. He has 3 VERY good receivers to learn from and develope under. If he works at it, improvement will be inevitable.
 

jlwaters1

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HawkWow":2t7algp9 said:
jlwaters1":2t7algp9 said:
HawkWow":2t7algp9 said:
I don't need to remind any of you of our past label of being "soft". That label did us as much harm as Behring did. What respectable FA wants to be linked to a soft team?

Harper brings a toughness to the last position we lacked toughness. Opposing heads will now be on swivels, at every level, on both sides of the ball. Harper definitely needs to be coached up, but I believe his immediate contribution will be blocking for Harvin (etc.). I love this pick and believe he will be a crowd favorite by mid-season.

I'm with you. This is my favorite pick. I agree also that the WR corps for the most part has been more finesse. Rice isn't really an imposing threat, dispite his height. Tate is the closest thing, He's real scrappy and lays the wood when blocking. I think Harper's going to be the WR's equivalent to BRowner and will get after people in run blocking situations.

I would love to see him be a significant contributor this year.


I'm calling him my (immediate) favorite pick as well. And I agree Tate was about the only WR we had that played with attitude. Tate was indeed scrappy, but not Steve Smith scrappy and at his size, he'd have to be SS scrappy to do what (I believe) we will see Harper do. Some are focusing too much on his lack of polish, IMO. I think polish was the last thing Pete was looking for in the role he will intially play. He has 3 VERY good receivers to learn from and develope under. If he works at it, improvement will be inevitable.


:th2thumbs:
 

Largent80

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Hopefully his learning curve will come to him quickly, but I am not expecting miracles from him this year.
 
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RichNhansom

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I don't really know where his talents level is at but there have been tons of 4th round receivers that had great careers. I believe Largent was a 4th rounder IIRC. That really is the point of the thread. I get the feeling they liked what they saw in him and talent wise it might have been a toss up with other receivers available but I believe this FO wants physical, imposing players that are not afraid to set a vicious tone and I suspect that was the catalyst that attracted our FO to him over others.

I hope I am right because even if he is raw on the talent level, he can still contribute in other ways and get paying time that will help his development.

I am very excited for his future with Seattle.
 

Seafan

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Look at the guns on this guy. It's like Turbinator II. I SMH at the people trying to compare this guy to Brian Blades. Seattle has never had a WR like this before. He's like a short TE with jets. He should be on the field just for the running game alone. Good luck to the LOB if they try to "beat him into submission". :mrgreen: Could be some nice TC battles.
 
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