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 Post subject: Ceiling/floor on my favorite draftees
 Post Posted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 6:08 am 
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First, Ceiling/floor talk is mostly bullshit perspective, so please don't take it too seriously. It's just the way my brain processes these new players.
Second, I have to say that one thing I love about our front office is they don't think players have character risks. The call those defects human issues. Which is what they are.

And our draft is full of human issues.

Christine Micheal is full of potential. His burst is insane. Part truck, part ghost. He had trouble as a senior adjusting to a new coaching staff, which I can assume most rational people understand. DNP in the Bowl game last year for coaches decision, no doubt for something that violated team rules. Human issues, just like Lynch had human issues last year.

Had an ACL last year, so anyone who wants to see his true potential needs to watch 2011 footage. The 2011 footage vs Iowa State was a point of reference for me, since ISU has two NFL caliber linebackers. He played low, has a 5 yard turbo button, and is the definition of fluid in the open field.
FLOOR: Slightly bigger Ben Tate. One cut excellence who cannot stay healthy.
CEILING: More fluid and linear than Lynch, Kip compared him to Ahman Green, and it works.

Chris Harper.
Big, strong, good hands, not great route running. Harper plays receiver way more like he is posting up than trying to execute precision football, he is comfortable with a defender's body contact even as the ball is in the air.
FLOOR: Early Doucet, who never added up to the sum of the parts.
CEILING: A faster Anquan Boldin. Both highpoint catches and play power forward more than receiver. Both block. With a QB who is good at throwing a receiver open rather than precision pinpoint throws, Harper could flourish.

Jesse Williams.
I like this guy, and not just because I can buy his jersey and represent my surname. Country strong and weight room obsessed, I think the Hawks staff will have their hands full making him more flexible, which looks to me like something he needs. 600 pound bench is impressive, but a flexible and strong core will serve him better. The USC weight staff that Pete brought to the Hawks has gotten good results, and Williams is already pretty obsessed with good nutrition, so I expect Williams to only get more stout and skilled at the point of attack.
FLOOR: Remember when Red Bryant played inside in the Ruskell/Mora era? Yeah, that bad. Williams is strong, but inside if he cant use his hands well he is screwed. In that case, he can still go the 5 tech spot and contain the end, but Pete wants him to be a 2 down 3 tech like Branch right now.
CEILING: If he can learn to use his hands, Justin Smith. Justin Smith is the reason so many mocked Williams to the Niners.

Ty Powell. First, this guy is impressive off the field from what I can find.
Is he a WLB or a LEO? Or both? The athlete is impressive, and I wonder how much more athletic he could be if he slimmed just a bit to play WLB. Right now, he seems determined to rush the passer.
FLOOR: bartender. A late round LB better be able to play specials, and if he can't, bye bye. Our LEO depth is nuts.
Ceiling: Powell compares himself to Elvis Dumerville. Harding footage is pretty hard to come by. I will have to take his word for it, for now.

Jordan Hill.
This might be the most overlooked pick. Hill is a laterally agile player in confined space, who I think is going to be boom or bust from play to play. Uber strong guards will grab his pads and play over for Hill. Slower guards will whiff on his quickness and Hill will create trouble. Hill is what Seattle tried to get with McDonald. A low man player, Hill might rotate with both Mebane and Williams.

FLOOR: Drake Nevis.
CEILING: Henry Melton. Probably a pipe dream, but if you disagree, post your thoughts.


Tharold Simon. Once again, Seattle gets a tall corner. There just aren't that many tall corners to compare to. He has ball skills, and physically compares more to Sherman than Browner. He is a mouth runner on the field too.
I maintain that Press corner is one of the easiest defensive schemes for cornerbacks to play, so most of Tharold's adjustment to the league will be getting used to the speed, which having been in the SEC, should be pretty easy. Also, Tharold just being away from family and friends and away from the godlike status ballers have at LSU could be tough.

FLOOR: Tharold Simon, as he is right now, a guy who gets into dumb shit off the field.
CEILING: Richard Sherman talent with an LSU education. Not being mean, Dick Sure drops Stanford into every other sentence, and doing the same with LSU won't carry much cachet in a debate.

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 Post subject: Re: Ceiling/floor on my favorite draftees
 Post Posted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 8:30 am 
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Every one of them has solid potential. We know from league and Seahawks history, even with JS/PC, that not all of these guys will hit, but some will strike it big. As I mentioned in the 'Adopt-a-Player' thread, I like the potential of Powell, and I agree with you that I'd like to see him lose some weight and hone in on the Will, but who knows what Pete has in store for him.

Interesting thought, we really don't need any of these guys this year, tho if any of them pop, wow what a great thought. But really, the team in in a position to bring these once great players in, get them used to the system/team/philosophy, prove themselves to be good citizens and then get them ready top contribute big a year or two down the road. Love it!

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 Post subject: Re: Ceiling/floor on my favorite draftees
 Post Posted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 8:42 am 
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Somewhere I read an article that made a great point about Chris Harper, he comes from a run first offense so he's used to blocking and not getting the ball so much. I thought that was an excellent observation.

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 Post subject: Re: Ceiling/floor on my favorite draftees
 Post Posted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 8:44 am 
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If we are just focusing on potential then do not sleep on TE Luke Willson. Very rare combination of size and speed especially for TE position.

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 Post subject: Re: Ceiling/floor on my favorite draftees
 Post Posted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 8:51 am 
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Think Jesse needs to work on his lower body. Has ample upper body strength and a motor that wont quit but doesnt have a very good base. I agree that Simon is closer to Sherman, physically, than Browner.

Were still underrating Jordan Hill, he has solid pad level and his bullrush/swim are among the best in this draft class. He showed he can hold his own against NFL caliber lineman at Wisconsin.

I think Harper is the most boom/bust. According to him, he had just one drop last season. He clearly has very good hands and knows how to use his body to win on 50/50 balls. If he doesn't work out at receiver, I think he would make one heck of a db.


Last edited by SDHawk on Mon Apr 29, 2013 9:02 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Ceiling/floor on my favorite draftees
 Post Posted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 8:52 am 
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SeahawksFanForever wrote:
If we are just focusing on potential then do not sleep on TE Luke Willson. Very rare combination of size and speed especially for TE position.


And smarts. He is very well spoken. Plays 3 sports and picked up the TE position rather quickly from what I've read.

I think McCoy is a goner.


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 Post subject: Re: Ceiling/floor on my favorite draftees
 Post Posted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 9:03 am 
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I'm intrigued by most of these picks. I honestly thought we'd go balls out for DL and WLB, those being our only holes.

Instead we plugged the holes when they came to us, and went after depth and development, which we were in a position to do. The biggest drama this TC is going to be how many RB's do we keep, how many TE's, how many LBers and which WRs will stick.

Personally, I thought this team would improve more this next year by our already young starting players just improving and getting better (Wagner, Irvin, Turbin, Smith/Toomer, Lane, Scruggs, etc.). If those guys even get an NFL average improvement from year 1 to 2, and add that to last year's production, we're going to be a scary team.


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 Post subject: Re: Ceiling/floor on my favorite draftees
 Post Posted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 9:29 am 
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Nice.

I think my favorite pick of the draft is Jordan Hill. I didn't know dick about him prior to the pick, but the more I look at him the more I see a guy with Warren Sapp like tools. From what I saw, it looked like Penn State used him almost exclusively as a 1-tech, but if those skills can translate to the 3-tech position, we might finally have that 3-down pennetrating 3-tech I've been lusting after for the past 3 years...

Jesse Williams looks like he could be a lot of fun too.

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 Post subject: Re: Ceiling/floor on my favorite draftees
 Post Posted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 9:38 am 
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CANHawk wrote:
Nice.

I think my favorite pick of the draft is Jordan Hill. I didn't know dick about him prior to the pick, but the more I look at him the more I see a guy with Warren Sapp like tools. From what I saw, it looked like Penn State used him almost exclusively as a 1-tech, but if those skills can translate to the 3-tech position, we might finally have that 3-down pennetrating 3-tech I've been lusting after for the past 3 years...

Jesse Williams looks like he could be a lot of fun too.



Canadian tight end Luke Willson is sad that you picked Jordan Hill

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 Post subject: Re: Ceiling/floor on my favorite draftees
 Post Posted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 9:45 am 
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CANHawk wrote:
Nice.

I think my favorite pick of the draft is Jordan Hill. I didn't know dick about him prior to the pick, but the more I look at him the more I see a guy with Warren Sapp like tools. From what I saw, it looked like Penn State used him almost exclusively as a 1-tech, but if those skills can translate to the 3-tech position, we might finally have that 3-down pennetrating 3-tech I've been lusting after for the past 3 years...

Jesse Williams looks like he could be a lot of fun too.


Good to hear someone say that. I can't see it myself, but I wanna believe. Really. I just don't right now.

I'm not very high on Willson either. I'd love to see him develop into a Tony Gonzalez/Jason Witten type. That could be his ceiling, but having a hard time seeing it.

I am rather high on Harper. Great hands and body control. I really think we got him to be a solid down field blocking receiver and an outlet for Wilson. I think his ceiling is as high as or even higher than a guy like Boldin. We'll see if he develops into that.

Oh, and I'll add another I think has great potential:

Bowie

FLOOR: Practice Squad fodder
CEILING: Russell Okung

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 Post subject: Re: Ceiling/floor on my favorite draftees
 Post Posted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 9:48 am 
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SeahawksFanForever wrote:
CANHawk wrote:
Nice.

I think my favorite pick of the draft is Jordan Hill. I didn't know dick about him prior to the pick, but the more I look at him the more I see a guy with Warren Sapp like tools. From what I saw, it looked like Penn State used him almost exclusively as a 1-tech, but if those skills can translate to the 3-tech position, we might finally have that 3-down pennetrating 3-tech I've been lusting after for the past 3 years...

Jesse Williams looks like he could be a lot of fun too.



Canadian tight end Luke Willson is sad that you picked Jordan Hill


What... did you mistake me for one of those needy Australians? We've been to this rodeo before...

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 Post subject: Re: Ceiling/floor on my favorite draftees
 Post Posted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 9:49 am 
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CANHawk wrote:
SeahawksFanForever wrote:
CANHawk wrote:
Nice.

I think my favorite pick of the draft is Jordan Hill. I didn't know dick about him prior to the pick, but the more I look at him the more I see a guy with Warren Sapp like tools. From what I saw, it looked like Penn State used him almost exclusively as a 1-tech, but if those skills can translate to the 3-tech position, we might finally have that 3-down pennetrating 3-tech I've been lusting after for the past 3 years...

Jesse Williams looks like he could be a lot of fun too.



Canadian tight end Luke Willson is sad that you picked Jordan Hill


What... did you mistake me for one of those needy Australians? We've been to this rodeo before...


HAHAHA

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 Post subject: Re: Ceiling/floor on my favorite draftees
 Post Posted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 10:35 am 
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SDHawk wrote:
I think Harper is the most boom/bust. According to him, he had just one drop last season. He clearly has very good hands and knows how to use his body to win on 50/50 balls. If he doesn't work out at receiver, I think he would make one heck of a db.


So this is the guy I have been wating to see since the last season game in san francisco, where it seemed the whole team had limp d*cks for fingers. If he has good enough hands, he doesnt even need elite speed or route running to become a game chancer. Cant wait to see him in action.

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 Post subject: Re: Ceiling/floor on my favorite draftees
 Post Posted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 11:10 am 
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SDHawk wrote:

And smarts. He is very well spoken. Plays 3 sports and picked up the TE position rather quickly from what I've read.

I think McCoy is a goner.


Why would McCoy be a goner? He's a good in-line blocker and improved last year.

I think it's a Fells vs. Willson competition for that third TE spot with Helfet and McGrath on the fringes of that competition.

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 Post subject: Re: Ceiling/floor on my favorite draftees
 Post Posted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 11:57 am 
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Smelly McUgly wrote:
SDHawk wrote:

And smarts. He is very well spoken. Plays 3 sports and picked up the TE position rather quickly from what I've read.

I think McCoy is a goner.


Why would McCoy be a goner? He's a good in-line blocker and improved last year.

I think it's a Fells vs. Willson competition for that third TE spot with Helfet and McGrath on the fringes of that competition.


Signing half a dozen off the street and drafting one isn't enough of a clue?

"good in-line blockers" are a dime a dozen.


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 Post subject: Re: Ceiling/floor on my favorite draftees
 Post Posted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 12:00 pm 
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SDHawk wrote:
Smelly McUgly wrote:
SDHawk wrote:

And smarts. He is very well spoken. Plays 3 sports and picked up the TE position rather quickly from what I've read.

I think McCoy is a goner.


Why would McCoy be a goner? He's a good in-line blocker and improved last year.

I think it's a Fells vs. Willson competition for that third TE spot with Helfet and McGrath on the fringes of that competition.


Signing half a dozen off the street and drafting one isn't enough of a clue?

"good in-line blockers" are a dime a dozen.


Well, we signed a ton of them because Morrah is gone and we basically have two TEs with three spots. Draft a guy, sign a couple, and let them compete.

If "good in-line blockers are a dime a dozen," it's a wonder that Morrah got cut rather than McCoy.

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 Post subject: Re: Ceiling/floor on my favorite draftees
 Post Posted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 12:21 pm 
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No reason to hate on McCoy. Dude is a productive 2nd/3rd string TE. Some people just need a whipping boy and McCoy is an easy one because he dropped a few easy passes like 100 years ago.

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 Post subject: Re: Ceiling/floor on my favorite draftees
 Post Posted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 12:30 pm 
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Hes a whipping boy because he has one of the lowest ceilings out of any of our skill players. He's easily replaceable and I hope he is replaced with a high upside player.


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 Post subject: Re: Ceiling/floor on my favorite draftees
 Post Posted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 12:37 pm 
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Hope Williams isn't just a gym rat body builder, he played pretty well in his role for Alabama but I have this irrational fear he'll bust working only on weightlifting. I hope the coaches can hammer "technique" into his head since he seems pretty raw. I liked the pick where we got him though, but I do have concerns about it.

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 Post subject: Re: Ceiling/floor on my favorite draftees
 Post Posted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 12:46 pm 
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ivotuk wrote:
Somewhere I read an article that made a great point about Chris Harper, he comes from a run first offense so he's used to blocking and not getting the ball so much. I thought that was an excellent observation.


If that's the case, I could be OK with this pick. He just looks really slow and I wonder if he can get separation against NFL caliber secondaries.


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 Post subject: Re: Ceiling/floor on my favorite draftees
 Post Posted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 12:57 pm 
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I also have my doubts about Harper's ability to get separation, but remember, he was a receiver for the equivalent of Tim Tebow 2.0 in Collin Klein. The dude can't lead a receiver to save his life. That's why I really like this pick in the fourth round. His stock was low because he played in a run dominant offense with a poor QB. No one knows what he can do with a legitimate QB. There's unknown upside there that you typically don't find in a 4th round WR.


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 Post subject: Re: Ceiling/floor on my favorite draftees
 Post Posted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 12:57 pm 
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Williams isn't a pass rusher and i'm skeptical he can do much more than be a space eater that holds the line at the point of attack and his lower body worries me. Hill has a chance to be more than that , he's just a solid well perportioned 303 pound 3tech but we'll see . If one of them pans out to be above average the FO did there job.


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 Post subject: Re: Ceiling/floor on my favorite draftees
 Post Posted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 1:59 pm 
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Awesome read.

A well known member of the Fieldgulls community came over to SDB and called Jordan Hill a better version of Craig Terrill. I prefer poor-man's Kawann Short, but if we are comparing to past Seahawks, then a better version of Craig Terrill is a solid comparison. If Terrill had been a better run defender, good enough to play 3 downs, then I think it's a decent comparison. Terrill lacked strength but was quick, smart, and tenacious.

Hill will probably never be Melton or Atkins. Melton ran a 4.65 and Atkins ran a 4.75. For perspective, Datone Jones was hands down the most athletic 3-tech this year and he ran a 4.80. Hill ran a 5.17 at the combine. Hill is very quick, but he's not especially athletic.


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